40 short and weak discussion

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Here's an apples to apples comparison with pdx1 bonded

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>>34583853
Do the wound channels look particularly more impressive on the 40? Would it even make a difference?

I don't mind some extra muzzle flip if it means my rounds are a little more likely to incapacitate, but if they perform the same then I'll just stick to 9

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Another apples to apples using one of my favorite brands of hollow points.

Also all copper >>> bonded

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>>34583831
It's a fine cartridge. Does the job it's intended to very well.

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>>34583884
And here's the 9mm


Is 40 just a meme round? The carry gun I'm choosing would only give up 2 rounds in capacity, and is purpose built to handle the increased pressures of 40.

>>34583870
You go with .40 because it penetrates better while still expanding well. In the right gun it is perfectly controllable.

Not really, but if it makes you feel better that's worth something.

>>34583831
Debatable. Any ballistic advantage is most likely negligible, or at least small enough that you can't really measure it consistently. It "seems" to hit "harder" and tends to make a bigger mess from meat targets and soda bottles, but the statistics don't really show that amounts to any difference in mortality rates in real life.

In practice, a good quality 9mm load will give you roughly equivalent results. That being said, if you enjoy shooting .40 S&W and/or shoot it well, it will do the job just fine...if you do your part for shot placement.

one advantage to 40 (that isnt ballistic related) is police trade ins in 40cal. they arent very popular and for that reason, youll easily find glocks, sometimes USP, and other trade in pistols for cheap.
9mm trade ins go OOS fast and theyre usually $100 more than their 40 counterpart.
if you like 40, the cheap pistol market is your oyster

>>34583907
I think I'll stick to 9mm +p and use 45 for when I want fun at the range.

As much as i prefer heavier recooking rounds I want the biggest advantages for stopping a threat not what makes me feel better. Truth be told double taps are far easier for me with 9mm, and I can shoot basically as fast as my trigger finger will move with very acceptable vertical stringing

Thanks everyone for the (you)s

>>34583919
Honestly I am so addicted to shooting that the increased ammo cost would even out the difference in price within a couple months.

Even though used is more cost efficient I prefer to buy new anyways

>>34583922
>I want the biggest advantages for stopping a threat
>deagle brand deagle

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>>34583907
>Implying 9 is just as good as 40

ballistic gel isn't a person... and isn't a dog... and dogs aren't people....but one thing I can tell you is that going from 9mm to .40, you no longer saw aggressive dogs taking 4, 5, 6 shots to stop, with a .40 they would just drop on the spot with one shot.

And remember when that tiger escaped from the San Francisco zoo, it was killed with "only" a .40, by one of the officers who responded.

>>34583957
Yeah, basically, when it comes to actual defensive loads, 9mm Luger, .40S&W and .45ACP all kind of perform in the same ballpark, and basically all service pistols have enough capacity to matter.

Pick the one you feel you shoot best, really.

>>34583831
Ballistically, it is superior to 9x19 and 45acp. Whether that's an advantage is up to the user. Probably the biggest advantage to the lighter grain loads is very reliable penetration and consistent expansion with a multitude of loadings. What rustles people's jimmies is all the other hundred ass-pulled reasons for why it might be worse than their pet cartridge.

>>34583884
>>34583893
Too bad Barnes uses chickenshit loads in their ammo. I would definitely carry some Barnes that I had loaded myself though.

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>>34583831
.40 is the El camino for mid sized handgun calibers. Not the power of a truck, or the ease of use and lightness as a car, it has the drawbacks of both.

For retards who cant understand a simple metaphor, If you want something with power in an full sized autoloader 10mm is king, period. If you care more about capacity, weight, and ease of shooting, 9mm is the way to go period. .40 has neither the ease of shooting, capacity, and weight as 9mm, and dosent even come close to 10mm in terms of power in terms of velocity and bullet weight/size.

A shitty half measure, master of nothing.

>>34584907
Buffalo Barnes my nigga

>>34585188
Muh dik. Does this have any of the same restraints of some of the other buffalo bore revolver stuff that can only be fired out of a Ruger?

>>34585178
I dropped a 410 in my El Camino and your analogy sucks. If all that mattered was capacity, weight, and recoil then why not go 380acp? If all you want is power and bullet size why not get a 50AE? You're doing a disservice to yourself by sticking to absolutes and extremes instead of considering each round on its own merits and uses.

>>34585251
This

Still not a fan of 40 but that anon was a retard

>>34584768
Came here to say this. Preach the good word /k/omrade.

>>34583870
Those wounds from the PDX1 .40 look twice as wide as the PDX1 9mm, but the 9mm went deeper. I'll take the .40

>>34585251
Because 9mm .40 and 10mm are all linked together. The fbi wasent happy with 9mm over the miami shootout, so they tried the new 10mm losing out on capacity and gun weight but it was MORE THAN satisfactory in fact it was amazing comparatively, but office workers and woman fbi agents couldnt handle it so they watered it down until they could handle it. This is evidenced by every part of the FBI (And many regular male agents) that actually expected to shoot someone keeping 10mm. The rest of the FBI lost out on 10mms raw power, and seeing as how they spent millions of dollars testing the 10mm and then requesting .40 even be a thing and then testing that, they had to choose something that office workers could use so they adopted .40, accepting the drawbacks of the decreased capacity compared to 10mm and increased recoil and weight compared to 9mm.

You can throw around why not .380 and why not .50AE but in a fullsized duty handgun 9mm 10mm and .40 are all part of the same story, to ignore that is to be willfully retarded.

That and the FBI is dropping .40 for normal agents now anyways, so it dosent even have that endorsement anymore.

You clowns are forgetting one thing....when it comes to government, " best" is a consideration, and cheapest the actual motivator

>>34583831
Just came into this post to give you a You and let You know that I own a 40SW and enjoy shooting it.

Get a 10mm

>>34583831
I bought a USP in .40 so I can convert it to 10mm
I like shooting .40 alot tho
I think that .40 is better in larger handguns with longer barrels
I prefer 9mm in compacts, the only full size 9mm I want to own is a CZ Shadow for the 18 capacity and a Jericho for the memes

>>34583893
.40 and 9mm both have the same maximum pressure duderino

>>34584012
ATF plz go

>>34586138

keep up the good work killing off the menace of paper, we need more guys like you.

>>34585178
i don't think you know what an El Camino is.

Ok as an actual has guns here's my input.

I think .40 is really best of both worlds. It has more capacity then .45 while stil having more velocity and power.since .45 has low fps so shit penetration.

It's better then 9mm because it has more mass while also having higher fps and velocity so deeper penetration and of course in jhp bigger flower expansion while not losing much penetration compare 9mm n .45 cal jhp's.

I sold my glock 30s because I didn't know better n thought bigger bullet means better then .40 n 9mm.
Now I own a glock 19 but in process of selling for a glock 22 for cc/HD for max velocity n penetration while being a fullsize gun for better control on recoil.
I used hst 124+p but once I make change I'll be carrying hst 165/155 for max penetration while still flowering bigger then 9mm flower.

Debate me now.

>>34584012
This right here, 9mm is fine for people, but there is a reason the ATF choses .40.

>>34585333
Fake news. That's not what happened at all.

1) The FBI never seriously considered full-power 10mm because it penetrated too much.
2) The downloaded "FBI load" 10mm cartridge was what was fielded for a short time.
3) Agents weren't complaining about the recoil of the lighter load 10mm, but the size of the 10mm frame.
4) The .40 was created because it had the performance of the FBI-load 10mm that they wanted, but it could also fit in a smaller frame.

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>>34583831

>>34586395
Just get another gun in .40 and keep your G19.

>>34586054
>I think that .40 is better in larger handguns with longer barrels
I agree. I think that the ".40 is snappy" meme comes from people shooting it out of compacts and subs. In full-size guns, it doesn't kick any more than a .45.

>>34583831
>Is there any ballistic advantage to 40?
These days not really unless you use really hot loads, I hear it's better at barrier penetration though like windshields and drywall.

>>34586395
Also forgot to mention losing 2-3 rounds shouldnt be called lower cap. 13+1 15+1 is stil high cap no Matter how u see it.


>>34586489
Too poor once I get glock 22 I'm also going to get lone wolf barrel for 9mm range fun.

>>34586516
Implying modern jhp ammo like gold dots or hst federal aren't hot loads.

>>34586520
You have to change more than the Barrel. You might as well just get a P320 so you can convert it cheaper. I just talked to a guy at my LGS he said this place in VA has 200 Xchange kits.

Quantico tactical or something.

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>>34586054
>>34586498
So what you're saying is that if people want to shoot .40 S&W they should get a glock 35?

>>34586560
Nope just da barrel u only need to change extractor and other piece I forgot if u only want 100% reliability the lone wolf will just be for range fun. .40 for cc/HD

Plus I grew up liking glocks thanks to movies n tv since I was young my first BB gun was glock 17 Tokyo marui.

>>34586580
Glock 22 should be good enough for .40 cal .40 cal doesn't really benfit in fps in longer barrels compared to .357 mag n .45 cal

>>34583957
Literally why my first gun was a block fawty

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>>34585178

El caminos are fine

>>34586449
1.)Sure thats why they actually adopted it in 1989 you retard.
2.) You mean the back peddling and watering down of 10mm began and eventually got to .40? Thats what I said.
3.)then why backpedal and make it weaker at all?
4.) .40 was commissioned by the FBI to be weaker than 10mm but retain the same guns as 9mm just trade a barrel, but that blew up guns. The ONLY positive about .40 that got it into service was saving money by not buying new guns. But thats how the glocknade meme started.

>>34586653
Sure grandpa, unless you need to seat more than 2 people, or have to put something in the back heavier than your inbred cousin.

>>34583831
Case bulge

>>34585178
>El camino
>Not the power of a truck, or the ease of use and lightness as a car

Shit analogy, son.

El Camino was essentially a Chevelle with a utility bed. Virtually identical size dimensions. The Chevelle itself was typical of a full-sized American car of that era. It also had the same engine options as the Chevy pickup of the time did save for the 292 6cyl. In fact, it had the 454 LS6 which was more powerful than anything offered in a C/K.

>>34586743

>Everything must be 100% functional at all times

Zzz

Also I've had a 2 seater for 3 years and it's never been an issue, this isn't highschool, everyone i know has a car.

>>34586760
good luck loading it like a truck then, just make sure you have a spare ENTIRE SUSPENSION you idiot.

fucking rednecks and there cars man, just like guns you guys get emotionally attached to objectively inferior shit.

On pure "lethality," no. Your standard service calibers are all going to do about the same thing inside a person. None of them are going to knock anybody on their ass without the target deciding it's time to fall down. A miss of the vitals with a 9 is unlikely to become a hit with a .40, and if it does (going purely based on expanded diameter) so what? You got a marginal hit, congratulations. Modern service calibers are all capable of going through an outstretched arm and into the torso (think shooting at somebody locked into an isosceles stance) when appropriately loaded.

Where bigger rounds come into their own is barrier penetration. .40 works very well against cars, for example, because it's a heavy and dense bullet in its 180gr loading. You may buy some additional penetration in people/animals with the heavier calibers, but based on test results, you may not. Apples to apples comparisons between, say, 147gr HST 9 and 180gr HST .40 show virtually identical penetration in gel. Why? All the police JHP rounds are designed to meet the same standard. The truly deep penetrating stuff is going to be a specialized loading from, say, Buffalo Bore.

>>34586743
>1.)Sure thats why they actually adopted it in 1989 you retard.
[citation needed]. Please prove that the FBI was using full-power 10mm in their carry guns in 1989.

>2.) You mean the back peddling and watering down of 10mm began and eventually got to .40? Thats what I said.
You actually didn't mention it anywhere in your previous post.

>3.)then why backpedal and make it weaker at all?
They never "backpedaled" because they never fielded the full-power load carry guns. They started with load similar to then-AiC of FTU John Hall's personal handloaded 10mm.

>4.) .40 was commissioned by the FBI to be weaker than 10mm but retain the same guns as 9mm just trade a barrel, but that blew up guns. The ONLY positive about .40 that got it into service was saving money by not buying new guns. But thats how the glocknade meme started.
You're not even arguing against the point here.

>>34586580

G35 owner here. Can confirm, it is the comfiest .40.

>>34586831
>he doesn't know that elcaminos have heavier duty suspension, compared to its mid side car counterparts.
>he doesn't know that most elcaminos came with adjustable air shocks for different weight loads

>>34586867
Ur using heAvier grain try again with 165gr or 155 n for 9mm 124+p

>>34587045
*try using

>>34584012
>and dogs aren't people
GTFO ATF

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>>34586395
Actual expanded bullet size is so fucking tiny for all three so you end up with basically no shots that would kill with .45 or .40 but not 9mm. Pic related looks like .45 has a nice lead, right? No. .12 inches. Well it's all relati- no. You get .12 inches more leeway in your aim. That's fucking nothing. You're also completely wrong about penetration.
>>34583853
>>34583870
It has been said a million times but you caliberfag fudd sucking shits never pick it up. ENERGY DOES NOT MEAN SHIT. Penetration is a matter of SECTIONAL DENSITY. How many foot pounds does it take to penetrate something? How many stopping powers are in a footpound?

>>34583831
>I enjoy something, but that alone isn't enough reason to do it.
>I need internet strangers to affirm my beliefs

>>34586580
Maybe not so big. A ~4.5'' barrel is fine. To speak in relative terms, a G22 is fine, too.

>>34585293
Why? Penetration is king in pistol cartridges.

>>34586831
kek... you can get the El Camino's suspension on a Chevelle, too, dummy.

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I hate 40SW more than any other round

>>34583831
Show me a 10mm that is the same size as a Glock 19 with at least the same magazine capacity of a Glock 23, and maybe I'll switch from .40 to 10mm.
As it stands the Glock 23 (and by extension other similar sized .40 caliber versions of other popular 9mm CC/duty pistols M&P, Sig,etc etc) is probably the single most practical pistol you can have if you could only own a single pistol. Yes you are losing rounds compared to say a Glock 19, but the loss of 2 rounds is significantly less than the loss of 5 rounds in a roughly similarly sized 10mm like the Glock 29. Statistically it is highly unlikely whether you carry a .380 or a .44 magnum that you're likely to fire more than 3 to 4 rounds at any rate, but it is still a MUCH bigger loss in capacity than .40 gives up compared to 9mm. At the same time while you're losing 2 rounds you're gaining a round that will objectively perform better against a hard barrier like auto glass than the 9mm or certainly the .45 will. No you probably will never have to make a shot at an allahu-snackbar blaring down a side walk in a truck aimed at a crowd of people, but can you be sure you'll never be involved in a self defense shooting from your own car? A car jacker or armed robbery attempt that occurs as you're getting into or out of your car. As a police officer can you be sure you'll never have to fire through a windshield or a car door at a suspect? Are you always going to be able to get to your patrol rifle or shotgun which could do those things? I don't know the answers to any of those questions, so I'm more comfortable erring on the side of a round that is better able to do these things while still being just as comfortable to carry and conceal as a Glock 19.

Captcha: windshield of a a large approaching truck.

>>34587072
45 has shit penetration in jhp which is only ammo any reasonable human should use against attacker. 12 inches is too low especially since balistic gell still doesn't relate to human tissue.

You have to go through chest bone first to hit major organs . Which .40 cal thanks to higher velocity and penetration will do better then 9mm, .45 IN JHPs

Tell me where I'm wrong.

>>34587072
>You get .12 inches more leeway in your aim. That's fucking nothing.
Are you seriously trying to argue that JHP expansion is for hit probability?

>>34586988
After having a 17 for some time I've just ordered a 35 for myself. Any words of wisdom?

>>34586604
Yeah, I used to own a G22 and a G19. The ejectors are different, and can only be changed with a trigger pack upgrade.

>>34587072
Yeah, you retards post this all of the time, but this is after it is done expanding. It gets wider than this at the Apex of expansion.

>>34587179
.40 and 10mm are the same diameter, there is no reason why the G29 cant carry the same capacity as a G23

>>34585178

You goddamn misogynist, .40 gave female FBI agents a round with more punch than 9mm. Now go get pegged by your girlfriend's bull.

>>34589389
>40 gave female FBI agents a round with more punch than 9mm.
and manlets

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>>34585178
You're a dumb faggot and your El Camino analogy sucks. It was no heavier or more difficult to use than a Chevelle because that was exactly what it was: A mid-sized automobile. The only obvious difference is the bed in the back for more utility. The El Camino and Ranchero sold well because it met the needs of their customers.

That's the problem in arguing in absolutes and why your analogy is so shitty. You're not only ignorant in both automobile and firearm history, but you also completely ignore real world practicality.

>>34585333
oh wow, I'm not reading this shit but thanks for playing
>willfully retarded
>FBI is dropping .40
yeah you don't have a fucking clue do you

>>34585178
That's an econoline, fag

>>34583831
Yes, it's bigger than 9mm and faster than 45 ACP. It does significant damage to any person it hits.