Dresden

>>34570245
Because bombs fucking work? Obviously.

Real question is why don't we do it again?

>>34570452
killing germans was ok. killing muslims is not

>>34570445
yep. bombing cities sure knocked germany out of the war. it's not like we were forced to invade the country itself and the russians had to take berlin block by block in bitter fighting until hitler finally killed hims...oh.

>>34570245
So that we wouldn't have to do it again in another war with Germany 20 years later

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>>34570499
Hmm yes, lets just leave all those tasty oil refineries, factories, shipyards, and rail lines alone, the boys on the ground can take care of those when they get to them.

>>34570469
What's the difference??????

>>34570245
We? I've never even been there. Why did YOU do it?

>>34570499
>implying it didnt

>>34570517
Those were all getting bombed and strafed as well.

>>34570245
Same reason we set Japan on fire.
Because fuck the axis lol.
And you niggers pretend you wouldn't burn shit to the ground if you had a well developed strategic air force
It's shotguns and saw bayonets all over again.
Why are Germans such whiners?

>>34570618
Gero = Axis
Vegeta = Allies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR9a1HPBeYM

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>>34570245
Because in the end anon, we were the Nazis.

It was an experiment on how to firebomb a wood-framed city.

>>34570245
Because fuck 'em.
Really though, between you and me, I heard it was an accident.

>>34570245
>implying the dresdenhoax was real

Remove Kraut from premises.

>>34570698
>it's ok when we do it xd

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>>34571079
Luftstreitkräfte, Condor Legion, and Luftwaffe, all did terror bombing. Germans pioneered and practiced the concept over three decades.
What happened in WW2 was a taste of their own medicine and there's only complaining because the USAAF and RAF were able to develop heavy bombers instead of being autists who obsessed over divebombers.

>>34570245
The Krauts should be thanking us if anything. At the time of the Dresden bombing we weren't sure if the A-Bomb would work, and without it we weren't sure if we could hold back the soviets if they decided to just go ahead and take over all of yurope. So we did a demonstration of force by wiping out a city that we knew would end up in Soviet control to show them what would happen if they tried to back stab us.

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How can one man be so based?

>>34570245
R E A P T H E W H I R L W I N D

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>>34571285
do it again bomber harris

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>>34570499
>when you have enough resources to throw thousands of bombers at Germany every day while still whooping their ass on the ground

>>34570517
>lets just leave all those tasty oil refineries, factories, shipyards, and rail lines that suspiciously look like civilian housing alone
ftfy

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>>34571285
Do it again Bomber Harris!!

>>34571285
Do it again bomber harris

>>34571285
Do it again Bomber Harris?!

>>34570245
Because explosions are cool and we get to make jokes about dead Germans.

How many citizens of Dredsden can you fit in a Mercedes? 40,000 if you use a shovel! Hue hue hue.....

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>>34571362
Does this image make you angry?

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>>34570517
This guy,

Would recommend to anyone the documentary, The Fog of War.

We bombed the fuck out of Japan before the Nukes.

We killed 1/4 of the North Korean population in the Korean War.

A hell of lot of the general deterrence/MAD strategy was formulated during LeMay's SAC Command.

Can't remember which character specifically was based on LeMay in Dr. Stranglove, but at least know one was.

>>34571285
Do it again Bomber Harris

>>34571383
kek

For funsies

>>34571387


Total civilians killed/wounded: 2.5 million (est.)[16]
South Korea: 990,968
373,599 killed[16]
229,625 wounded[16]
387,744 abducted/missing[16]
North Korea: 1,550,000 (est.)[16]

for some reason i believe north korea had population more than 6.2 mln, especially considering that 1.5 mln it's both killed and wounded there

>>34571285
do it again bomber harris

>>34570245
Because the jerries needed a taste of their own fucking medicine.

>>34570245

I briefly recall something about it being a critical rail line for most supplies and movement through Germany, but frankly I think banter is reason enough

>>34570469
Not unless they're German muslims. ;)

I read somewhere once that dresden was a major industrial hub for germany and one of the few that were not bombed to shit by the end of the war. The writing on the wall at the time was that control of germany was going to be split between Russia and the allies.Saxony is the easternmost state in germany and was almost guaranteed to go into communist hands after the war.

Because of this, the allies didn't want Russia to gain an unblemished German industrial city. So, they bombed the shit out of it right before bombing the shit out of it would have started ww3

>>34571285
do it again bomber harris

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The harsh truth

>>34572080

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otD52qwC9xw

Same reason why whites are a minority among the children today
The Jews rule the US and have used the US to destroy white civilization on this earth.

Evil marxists glorifying in the murder of fellow europeans.

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>>34572095
fug

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>>34572080
of course the Axis commited much more and worse crimes but I wouldn't call a side that deliberately targeted civilians and residential areas with firebombs, let hundreds of thausands of Indians starve to death, and conducted ethnic cleansings with ~2 million fatalities "good".

>>34571285

do it again Bomber Harris

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>>34571285
Do it again Bomber Harris

>>34570245
Because americans are the scum of the earth and the most retarded and morally lowest of all white people, and they will do anything their jewish masters tell them to do, even burning alive thousands of children of their own race

>>34571148
Such shitty damage control... comparing bombing of military positions to repeatedly firebombing entire cities who have zero military objective. Just so you know, those pieces of shit were waiting for the rescuers to start helping people to drop other tons of firebombs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck-TEamhLBk

>>34572269
Hey faggot Dresden was at the time the center of the german logistical sysem, the allies had full right to bomb it, also how is rotterdam an military target?

This thread is pure truth, exposing what really are americans, who dare pose as the world's moral authority.

Hopefully you'll all very soon be extinct with racemixing and morbid obesity, and history will flush you down the toilet like the stinky shit you are.

>>34572287
You lost, get over it

Germany thought they could destroy cities across Europe and their own cities would remain intact.

The mental gymnastics must have been something to witness.

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>The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put that rather naïve theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now, they are going to reap the whirlwind

>>34572296
How did you do the trema with naive?
Also one warcrime doesn't excuse another.

>>34572296
The germans entered the war because England and France declared them the war

It's crazy how ameriturds will justify any horror as long as their lying medias and teachers tell them that "this side is evil". Exactly like a flock, they do as told, not questioning anything, not making any sense whatsoever

Your pic is shit btw

>>34572303
There is something tat is called "honoring the pact you made with poland"
Also, germans started it

>>34572303
I agree that the bombing campaign was horrible and a warcrime but it should be clear that the Nazis started the war, they were aware France and the UK would react when they attacked Poland. Also real combat with the western Allies started only when German forces attacked the Benelux countries and Norway.

>>34572303
I can smell your crispyness from here

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>>34571285

Do it again Bomber Harris.

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>>34570245
Because it made winning the war slightly easier

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>>34572303

reminder that america was 1/4 german at the time and fighting their own kin.

>>34571285
>Tun Sie es wieder, Bomber Harris!

>>34572354
Antifa bitte häng dich

>>34572345
Reminder that Germany in a fit of autism induced impotent rage declared war on the USA.

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>>34570245
Because Germany was dumb enough to think they could bomb civilians and the allies wouldn't care.

>lol lets bomb everyone elses cities surely that won't piss them the fuck off
>cries warcrime only when it happens to them
We should have reduced the entirety of Germany to ashes.

>>34570245
Because they were building a time machine

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>>34572462
How hard can it be to acknowledge bombing civilians is a crime regardless who does it?
London, Rotterdam, Warsaw and Coventry were just as evil as Dresden, Berlin, Hamburg and Tokyo.
It's understandable from a military viewpoint but ethically and morally it is always wrong.

>>34572301
>one warcrime doesn't excuse another

you have to remember it was viewed as total war and a fight for the survival of their nation which had been bombed and besieged for years(there is a reason that traditionally in seiges no quarter was given or expected and why the most brutal age of seiges in england 1135-1153 was refered to as the time when "god and his angels slept")

I think strategic nuclear retaliation is the only comparable modern mindset.

>>34570245
Why not? Maybe next time the Germans will reconsider starting a war they can't see through to the end.

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>>34572575
I know it was total war, and triggering Stormfags is fine, but I think that the bombing of civilians is in no way justifiable and one shouldn't believe the German population deserved to be targeted in a war an authoritarian regime started.

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>>34570245

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/07/16/review-how-the-jews-defeated-hitler-exploding-the-myth-of-passivity-in-the-face-of-nazism-part-2-of-2/

>>34572614
At what point do you blame the people who were culpable of atrocities? If they didn't condemn them, they were giving their tacit approval. It's the same thing you see with muslims today.

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>>34571385
>hey hans
>yes sir?
>we shall paint the walls with camoflage to elude the allied air force
>yes sir, but what about the roofs?
>what about them?

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>>34572647
not excusing the fact that Germans didn't get rid of the Nazis by themselves, but if you're interested read up on that link, see what happened to adolescents who were caught spreading anti-Nazi leaflets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

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>>34570245
Civilians are complicit.

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>>34570517
Git learned

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_campaign_of_World_War_II#

>>34572303
>Exactly like a flock, they do as told, not questioning anything, not making any sense whatsoever.
Gee willickers, Anon, I wonder what other people I know of that fit that description.

>bombing Nazis is bad

>>34572980
>all Germans were Nazis

>>34572269
>>34572287
>we dindu nuffin!

Should've nuked Germany desu

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>>34572535
Carpet bombing civilians was indeed terrible, regardless of who did it, but that's a part of total war.
The issue is the selective outrage over it. You will find very few people who will earnestly defend the act, but it was almost a century ago so it hasn't effected most people personally as it would have in the immediate aftermath of the war. It was a part of the war that both sides partook in.
Yet today, you will only see people bringing up Dresden, Berlin, Tokyo, Hiroshima, and other cities the allies bombed. I have never seen a thread decrying what the Axis air forces did to Warsaw, London, Nanking, Singapore, Stalingrad, or other cities hit with equal intention to slaughter the inhabitants.
That's because there's a section on this site that really does think "The wrong side won WW2" and they will use every bit of historical slant and Goebbels' approved propaganda to justify what the Axis did.

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>>34574496
agreed.

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>>34570517
What oil refinery?
What factory?
What shipyard?
What rail lines?
And why use fire bombs to destroy it instead of regular explosives?
Could it be they wanted to burn down the capital of German's arts and cultural world as well as residential buildings?

>>34575132
And nothing of value was lost.

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>>34575176
Can't whine about wehraboos when you deride civilian victims of terror bombings like that, though.

What I don't understand is how we managed to use so much more ordnance in Nam, yet we didn't create near this level of destruction. It's almost like the military has become an inefficient boondoggle that exists to prop up the defense industry.

>>34575495
The US avoided hitting North Vietnamese cities because they feared the USSR (or to a lesser extent, China) would enter the war if they did.

>>34575495
Precision munitions which could be used in cities to hit legitimate targets and minimize civilian deaths (Not an option in WW2). The carpet bombings with B-52s and whatever else were over the jungles or on trails.

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>>34570469

>>34575132
>As David "I lost a libel case to the defendant in the fucking UK" Irving points out

Insults aside David Irving is not an authority on Dresden, possibly in the 60s when we didn't know as much, but definitely not now

>>34571383
>How many citizens of Dredsden can you fit in a Mercedes?

Depends- original recipe or extra crispy? And get a load of >>34572101 and >>3457226 ; he's all samefagging sauerkraut all over this thread. Get it? Sauerkraut? Sour Kraut? Ahahahahaha. Heh. I crack me up sometimes.

That was a good one. Got any more?

because they could

>>34572101
>>34572269
Wehraboos are like Hillary supporters. They just won't shut up about losing. Get over it already.

>>34572101
>>34572269
>>34572287
The sad part is, Russia is becoming a Third World hellhole because they racemixed with mongrel German genes. It would have been much better for all concerned if they had just genocided Germany after having their way with the frauleins. That way Russia would still be strong and proud, and there would be no whining Germans constantly weeping about how unfair it is.

Or maybe they could have sold the children to the Islamics- they would certainly know what to do with an unsullied blonde child.

>>34572301
>Also one warcrime doesn't excuse another.

You might want to review the international laws of war, Klaus. Reprisals in kind are a legit and legal thing.

>>34572303
Maybe Germany shouldn't have declared war on the US. If you start a war with us, expect to get burned.

>>34572584
Third time's the charm?

>>34576082
maybe america shouldnt have allied and given tons of equipment to bolsheviks so that europe could be taken over by communism after the war

>>34576203
Maybe you shouldn't have started such a destructive and ruinous war in the first place.

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>>34576045
>>>/pol/

>>34576069
areal bombings are considered a warcrime in the Geneva conventions after and in the Hague conventions prior to ww2

Again, you can state the bombings were understandable from a military standpoint and the German military certainly commited warcrimes as well, but morally and ethically it was wrong to target civilians for they weren't responsible for the warcrimes commited by Germans.

because aryans are white niggers

>>34576235
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM_xKbN0CcI

>>34576235
And yet, like how no one was charged for unrestricted submarine warfare (beyond incidents where survivors were machine gunned, etc.) No one was charged for the bombing.

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>>34570245

>Be Churchill
>Only bomb at night-time.
>Bomb every light you see (including farm houses)

>Be Hitler
>Get tired of civilians getting bombed
>Create 'V-1 Retaliatory rocket'
>Send reply with stop bombing our civies

>Be Churchill
>Kill 600k in firestorm because pic related.

>>34576235
>he thinks that the definition of war crimes wasn't specifically changed after WW2 because of things like Dresden

Cite me an example in either treaty law, case law, or customary law where strategic bombing was considered to be a violation of the laws of war.

I'll wait.

>>34576301
Because the Blitz never happened did it Hans?

>>34572296
Based Bomber Harris.

>>34571285
Plz do it again Bomber Harris :3

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>>34576235
As per the idea of total war, cities are valid targets. WW2 had indiscriminate bombings.
By bombing cities you are taking out the workers who produce the enemy's war material, you are forcing them to divert combat resources to the defense of those cities, and you are grinding down the population's morale and making them think the next day could be their last.
Of course it is ethically and morally objectionable and would never be tolerated now, but ethics and morals do not win wars.

>>34576229
Germany wanted its land from before ww1 back. Britain and France wanted a ruinous war. They are the ones who declared war. Poland was steamrolled.

>>34576374
Oops. Part of my thought got cut off somehow.
>WW2 had indiscriminate bombings from the point of the hostilities starting

One could bring up the idea of 'An eye for an eye makes the world go blind' but during that time people demanded retaliation. The Germans bombed numerous cities and harassed London with the Blitz.
To return the favor was a morale booster to the English civilians. As the war dragged on and the bombing campaign went to Germany, it was seen as a way to end the war quicker.

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>>34576284
>surely in a dictatorship that murdered 500,000 of its own people there wouldn't be staged propaganda events when the propaganda minister speaks.

>>34576288
Yes, and I'm not excusing any German warcrime, but nothing done by (unfortunately large) parts of the German troops justifies targeting innocent civilians, which the absolute majority of the victims were.

>>34576308
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/hague02.asp

>The attack or bombardment of towns, villages, habitations or buildings which are not defended, is prohibited.

One could argue wheter the essentialy non-existant defense of German cities in 44-45 makes the bombardments illegal according to this the Hague convention, though I'm personally arguing from a moral and ethic viewpoint.

>>34576374
understandable, as long as one doesn't start seriously spouting "civilians had it coming lol"

>>34576388
Germany was not in the position to make demands. Yet they still got away with taking back some of that land and annexing Austria.
Hitler knew he got away with it and also knew that if he invaded Poland than it meant war with France and Britain. Hitler invaded Poland and then guess what happened...

Nazi-sympathizers are some of the biggest "Dindu nuffin" morons on this site.

>>34576429
the war was inevitable. conflicting ideologies. neither side is dindu nuffin. they all wanted a war (that they could win). hitler just acted first.

>>34572614
Just remember the Germans bombed civilians as well.

>>34576429
Funny how the British and French didn't declare war on the Soviets even though they invaded Poland as well.

>>34576388
Wanting shit back from a war you previously lost is not an excuse to launch another ruinous war. Especially when the intended target of your invasion has defence pacts with other countries. How naive to think that those pacts wouldn't be honoured.

>>34575132
conventional bombs by day, fire bombs by night.

because at night you can't see shit.

>>34576301
fucking revisionist scum. im totally perpetrating atrocities on historical revisionists.

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>>34576475
Yes, but again, these bombings and warcrimes weren't conducted by the German population, therefore you can't possibly hold them responsible for these things just for being the same people

>>34576481
they wanted to have a realistic chance of winning the war, also the areas the USSR occupied were annexed by poland twenty years prior

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>>34570245
They asked for total war and they got it.

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>>34572269
>even burning alive thousands of children of their own race
So basically what the Germans did?

>>34576428
>understandable, as long as one doesn't start seriously spouting "civilians had it coming lol"
Of course they didn't deserve it, but they also didn't say the Polish, French, Belgians, Norwegians, and British didn't deserve it. Were there any Germans, outside of the priests and extremely pious, that condemned what the Luftwaffe did?
The bombings of Germany's enemies were said to be justified and part of the nation's continuing victories. They were cheered on by the regular German.
Meanwhile, British civilians found themselves facing invasion and under constant bombings. When the Germans started getting bombed in return, the British cheered. It was wrong in both cases, but when all sides are wrong then that is the norm.

>>34576498
the attitude that civilians are not part of a war started to change back in the first world war, when the Germans sent blimps to bomb London.

the argument is the same: disrupt logistical support by damaging or destroying war production. you can also argue the population is directly involved because they work in the factories that manufacture armaments and war supplies. when an entire nation's economy is geared to support a war, its easy to argue that the population is involved.

scorched earth is a very old tactic, and it directly affects civilian population for the purpose of disrupting the advancing enemy's logistical support.

>>34572303
>The germans entered the war because England and France declared them the war
... After Germany had attacked neutral Poland

>>34573007
Doesn't matter. They were still the enemy.

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>>34576555
>Were there any Germans, outside of the priests and extremely pious, that condemned what the Luftwaffe did?

You mean openly, in public?

Yes, and they were beheaded for doing so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

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>>34576301
Why do people quote Churchill as if he was leading policy and not a fringe party during the Chamberlain government, which constantly tried to appease Hitler and who Churchill was a critic of?

Yeah, shocker, the guy who told everyone Germany was going to throw their toys out of the cot and fuck everything up despite appeasement got elected after Germany threw their toys out of the cot and fucked everything up despite appeasement.

>>34572269
>their own race
remember when Karl and Marx and Lenin and Stalin thought the world would redivide based on class? oh, such innocent times.

you think race would do it, an even more abstract concept than social class?

the nation, what the Germans called volk, is much stronger than anything else. shared culture and language beats everything, everytime.

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>>34570245
Sic Semper Kraut

>>34570245
Because germans whether allied or axis deserves to die along with every black, white, brown, asian, catholic, muslim, jew, athiest, pagan, non-traditional religion follower, man, woman, child or any human for that matter

>>34576588
>White Rose
a total of 26 active members and supporters. not even close to a representative sample.

>>34576644
start with yourself, you useless edgelord.

>>34576617
In every generation, their evil must be quashed.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=821R0lGUL6A

>>34576652
unfortunately there weren't many, but there were some
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Germans_who_resisted_Nazism

but ask yourself: would you openly resist a regime as murderous and brutal as the Nazis if merely condemning their actions will lead to torture and death, and the collective punishment of your family? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaft

>>34576617
>>34576692
kys

>>34576707
I know, I was just being a bitter cunt for no real reason.

>>34576552
just look at the titties on those women

who could blame either side?

Was there even a country that joined and did nothing wrong in ww2?

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>>34576923
Mexico

>me, a /his/lurker
>decide to browse /k/ for a change
>find this thread
>another DRESDEN REEEEE vs BOMBER HARRIS meme war
Feels like home

>>34575495
Politics. Note that when we DID go after Hanoi, and mined the harbors, it actually upset them quite a bit.

>>34570245
I'm American. The Bongs did this war crime.

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>>34576235

>>34572312
Yes and this is why France and the U.K. Declared war on the USSR when it invaded Poland.

>>34572384
>I know facts about history but I don't understand them

>>34571285
do it again Bomber Harris

>>34570561
>>34572937
I know /k/ is full of illiterate fucking kids during Summer, but good god.

>>34572584
>starting

>>34577653
then proceeded to not do a goddamn thing.

>>34576489
bombs at night because Germans would shoot you down during the day and they didn't care what or where they dropped bombs lol!
Winners can't be convicted of war crimes!

>>34572334
>TVA Begins Construction of World's Biggest Valley

Funniest part for me

>>34571285
Do it again bomber harris

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Dresden had it coming, doomed by it's complicity in and profit on the war

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>>34571387
+1

>>34572095
this

>>34574496
Maybe because we don't need a thread decrying massacres in London, Warsaw, Nanking. Everyone knows about these.

>>34577751
>the war of Polish aggression.

Anything like the war of northern aggression?

>>34576333
You actually think this makes sense?

>>34578167
I would bet money that more burgers know about Dresden than know about Warsaw or Nanking.

>>34576301

>>Be Churchill
>>Only bomb at night-time.
>>Bomb every light you see (including farm houses)

Unlike those courageous German skynights who only bombed during the day.

Those silly island monkeys were so silly they even built fields of lights to try and fool bombers that might come at night, little did they know that the honourable Germans would never stoop so low.

>>34578183
>Germany carpet bombs British civilians in 1940
Heh stupid anglos
>Britain carpet bombs Germany back harder
WAAAH WAR CRIMES WAAAAH

Fuck off wehraboo

This thread is proof /k/ is obsessed with facts but has almost no understanding of history beyond empty facts. Was the bombing of Dresden justified? How about that's not the right question? Why were we trying to destroy Germany to begin with?
Also there's way too much
>b-b-but some white people did this or that bad thing to our ennemies so it was justified to side with our enemies against our brothers and kill them because we have to be completely objective, I mean I am a totally enlightened human being that doesn't take sides!
People like this are why the European peoples are going to disappear. No sense of pride or belonging. Perfect tools for the people who control the media.

>>34578200
Yeah because the holocaust takes all the attention and there's no room to talk about anything else.

>>34571285
Do it again bomber Harris

>>34570245

Cause the nukes weren't ready and when they were, Europe was mostly over and all that was left were the Nips.

>>34576707
>I have the historical and moral understanding of an elementary school teacher

>>34571285

Do it again Bomber Harris!

>>34576609
>race
>abstract
Unlike all those abstract ideas , race is actually real and tangible. But even if it wasn't, all humans still behave as if it was, so it's still not just an abstract concept we shouldn't care about.

>>34578298
>our brothers

It's pretty adorable how white supremacists think European culture is somehow just a homogeneous blob and that everyone would have loved the Germans if it wasn't for those meddling (((jews))).

>>34578442
Of course they would love it, because everything contrary would be destroyed and anyone who protested would be done away with.
Nazism is still Socialism and it relies on hiding the truth and alternatives from the people.

>>34576203
Well, when Germany declared war on the US that pretty much established who our allies were. It was a straightforward issue of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Germany caused the alliance, they can't exactly bitch about the results.

>>34571285
Do it again bomber harris

>>34576235
>areal bombings are considered a warcrime in the Geneva conventions after and in the Hague conventions prior to ww2

Since we're discussing WW2, your inclusion of the Geneva Conventions is pettifogging bullshit. Please point out which articles of the Hague Conventions declare bombing to be a warcrime. Good luck finding those articles, they don't exist.

The bombing of Dresden was done to achieve a military advantage. It achieved that advantage, thus the bombing of Dresden was legal under the doctrines of distinction and proportionality. IOW, totally legit. Just because it hurt your feelings doesn't make it a crime.

>>34570245
Honestly, it doesn't look THAT much worse than Detroit.

>>34572117
Those "civilians" were arming, feeding, and housing one of the most oppressive regimes in the world for their own selfish reasons and often acted as unlawful combatants near the tail-end of the war, making them breakers of the rules as well. That Hitler didn't give them an arm-band did not make them any less heinous. As for the Japanese, well the IJA didn't really give them a choice, but they were basically being used as human shields what with the former building their military bases RIGHT NEXT TO civilian housing. Similar deal with the Italians in that the Black Shirts made up a minority of them, but the Black Shirts were an ugly bunch.

War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.

>>34576428
>One could argue wheter the essentialy non-existant defense of German cities in 44-45 makes the bombardments illegal

One can most certainly not make that argument. The Luftwaffe was still a viable force, and Dresden had AA defenses. Your sophomoric attempt to downplay the capabilities of the existing defenses is pathetic. All you're doing is showing that you're morally and ethically bankrupt.

>>34578442
3/10 strawman

>>34578462
Socialism works if you have a homogenous society with a strong culture. You're putting ideas before people like a boomer cuckservative.

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>>34571285
Do it again Bomber Harris!

>>34576498
>therefore you can't possibly hold them responsible for these things just for being the same people

That's some next-level self delusion you got going on. Let me see if I have this right- the government is organized representation of the populace; the military is an agency of the government; the people are not accountable for the actions of the government or the military because reasons. Does that about sum it up?

Hasn't worked in over a dozen countries. Ranging from traditionalist, strongly nationalistic ones, or ones that go through revolution to kill intellectuals who would know any better.

>>34579491 meant for >>34579305

>>34576566
>when the Germans sent blimps to bomb London.

Which, btw, is a warcrime specifically mentioned in the Hague conventions. Just sayin.

>>34570452
No Bomber Harris to do it.

>>34572303
>America and britain started it!
How do you manage to function day to day, while being this stupid?

>>34572462
This
>Complain about trench guns in WW1 being inhumane
>Uses mustard gas and unlimited sub warfare

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>>34572269
You know the Germans bombed the U.K., France, Poland, Russia, Denmark, Norway, Czech Republic. Not to mention that they killed a ton of manpower because muh Jews

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>>34571148

I'd like to add Germany lost all moral advantage because they bombed civilian areas first. They opened the door to unrestricted bombing. They converted naval mines to use as a terror weapon to deliberately attack civilians for example. Reply in kind has always been a valid response in war.

>>34572041
It was still supplying line German military units. It was a valid target.

>>34579491
I'm not talking about communism, which is retarded. There's a gradient to be considered here.

>resistance members might be in this town but we don't have solid proof
>lock people in the church and burn it down and kill all adult males
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre
Germany can't play innocent

>>34579542
Bomber Harris is kept in cryo in a vault along with Hugh Dowding. Just in case the Hun ever gets uppity again.

>>34570245
To send a message not to fuck with the free world.

>>34571285
I wanna suck his dick

>>34577728
You should kill yourself for not actually reading what I posted. There is nothing illiterate about the oil war, especially since Nazieaders commented on it being the end of the war, you stupid, underage fuck.

>>34572303
>your pic is shit

Krispy kraut stfu

>>34579592
He's not stupid, just burnt to a crisp

>>34572331
It was my first thread that i looked up on /k/, i fucking love it especially the guy making the charred german on the computer

>>34578334
Enlighten me, please

>>34571285
>Do it again Bomber Harris

>>34570245
play stupid games, win stupid prizes

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>>34572269
>Mfw my Great-Grandfather bombed the shit out of German cities as part of the 8th Air Force
Stay mad Hans.

>>34572269
wheraboos are the dindus of history

>>34570245
The question is, why didn't we wait for the nukes

>>34581308
Russia turned it around.

>>34579489
D-I-C-T-A-T-O-R-S-H-I-P

>>34579027
Not defending the deliberate murder of hundreds of thausands of innocents
>morally and ethically bankrupt.
OK

>>34578994
Sometimes true, though the regime took what they wanted, also civilian resistance was something rare and again, I say collective punishment is wrong.

>>34578890
See >>34576428 (from a legal standpoint you are probably right.)

>>34571285

Do it again Bomber Harris

>all this "it's ok only when we do it"/"might makes right, but only when we're winning" from both sides

The German government had no moral high ground, but deliberately targeting civilians is only justifiable if it is OK in general to retaliate against civilians for the actions of their rulers. However, if that is the case, then McVeigh's bombing (and most "terrorism") is justified, and I doubt most of those who justify Harris would justify McVeigh. In fact, McVeigh was much cleaner than Harris, as he specifically targeted a government building.

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>>34570245
>This thread is still going
Should we just start a /dresdengeneral/ or something?

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>>34581503
The Western front (post Normandy) was killing around 7400 people a day during it's 11 month run, the eastern front was at about 30'000 deaths per day.

23'000 died in the Dresden bombings.

It's a trolley problem.

If the bombing shortened the war by 14 hours or more it was morally justifiable

>>34581539
>Shickelgruber
>Shekel-grubber

He knew what he was saying

>>34576374
>As per the idea of total war, cities are valid targets. WW2 had indiscriminate bombings.
Started by and only engaged in by the "good guys"

Destruction of European civilization was the goal, then these clowns wonder why their empires fell apart after WW2
Then they wonder why muslims slaughter their people on their streets.

London is minority british today
Paris is minority french

PROGRESS

>>34581503
Americans know nothing other than rampant hypocrisy

>>34581679
Hey fag germs bombed cities too

>>34581686
They bombed military targets, or some in response to allied murder of civilians.

What about the allies deporting millions of people to slavery or death in the USSR, was that justify? Many of which were not even USSR citizens?

What about their targetted sinking of refugee ships as the war ended? Was that part of "total war" ?

>>34581679
>only started by the good guys
>mentions London not four lines of text later
>selective amnesia, forgets the events of the London bombing completely
It's not Britains fault the Germans and Japanese were too retarded to move out from underneath a FOREWARNED bombing.

>>34581344
>Not defending the deliberate murder of hundreds of thausands of innocents

Not him, but you're just changing the subject.
You made a statement that was false in every sense, Dresden was defended. What was the point even of making such a dumb claim?

Instead of owning up, you're slinging out of context accusations.

>>34579027
> All you're doing is showing that you're morally and ethically bankrupt.
Nah, he's just a fanboy, and so for him, logic is applied only when it fits his narrative.

>NAZIS ARE MEANY BAD GUYS
>THIS IS WHY THE USSR WAS OUR FRIENDS WHICH WE WENT TO GREAT EXTENT TO AID

Normal American understanding of history or why their rulers brought about WW2

>>34581695
>Was that part of "total war"
Yes, deal with it Hans. Also in what way was the bombing of civilians in London justified? Or any other allied city by the Luftwaffe?
>All that shit about the USSR
We're primarily talking about western allies here, I don't give a fuck for what the commies did.

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>>34581709
USSR was bad, but nothing compared to the Nazis
>>34581704
How hard can it be to acknowledge targeting civilians is wrong regardless who does it?
How does this make me a fanboy?

>>34581709
Nazi Germany declared war on us, they should've known what they were dealing with.
>Using some bullshit logic to insinuate that we were really, really close with the Soviets
We were hiding shit from them while we were helping, it was a mutually beneficial relationship that ended the second the 2nd World War ended. I have absolutely zero love for Stalin, as I have zero love for Hitler. They can both suck each other off in Hell for all I care.

>>34570245

Because in a total war it's usually better to bomb the shit out of the other guy before he bombs the shit out of you. If you can, anyway, which means if you can you definitely should.

Also, >>34581300
Dindu nuffin about them bombers, eh?

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>>34581695
Gee anon this church sure looks like a military target to me!

>>34581718
>USSR was bad, but nothing compared to the Nazis

Absolutely delusional
Nazi Germany was just another western country with a slightly different form of government.
They invented all the socialist/animal rights/environmental stuff we take for granted.

>>34581720
It is people like you who have destroyed the west, and continue to destroy it. It'll be fitting when the minority white USA falls into civil war.

You people fully embrace the marxist agenda, then cry about where you end up.

>>34581606
The problem is that most kids this day have video game morals. Completely disconnected from reality.

>>34581503
In every single "real" war, with much at stake civilians were targeted to one degree or another.
Of course any sane nation would like to condemn it's enemies as evil and itself as just. You can call this hypocrisy, or simply realism, every nation practices this.

In my opinion targeting civilians, as long as it furthers the war effort in a significant amount is justifiable. But not as an act of reprisal or just wanton cruelty. It's not an easy matter to judge either way.
I know this is not well defined though.

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>>34581736
>Absolutely delusional
Nazi Germany was just another western country with a slightly different form of government.
They invented all the socialist/animal rights/environmental stuff we take for granted.

calling me delusional hahhaha
You're not from Europe, are you?

>>34581716
>Also in what way was the bombing of civilians in London justified? Or any other allied city by the Luftwaffe?

The UK started it for months without a response.
Nor did it ever approach the evils that the allies engaged in, killing millions of people throughout Europe.

>We're primarily talking about western allies here

BECAUSE YOU CAN JUST DODGE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE PEOPLE YOU ARE ALLIED WITH & DIRECTLY ARMING/FUNDING?
The people you worked with after the war?
The people who were allowed to keep literally hundreds of thousands of western POW's as slaves because the US government was a buncha commie pieces of shit?

>>34581743
Nazi Germany had freer gun laws & speech laws than anywhere in Europe today
What evil are they guilty of that wasn't military necessity during a life/death war?

Nazi's are a gigantic strawman of the leftists, that they use to slander/attack anyone who is even slightly against their agenda. Going along with their nazi villification bullshit makes you literally the same as vile leftists like Obama.

>>34581748
The blitz happened before germany got bombed you moron

>>34581755
>you can have free speech
>ust as long you dont say anything bad about the regime or anything hood about jews,bolsheviks,the brits,the americans,the slavs....

>>34581736
You are one rather delusional wehraboo.
>In order to maintain western civilization we need to adopt an utterly totalitarian form of government where there is
>No real forms of protest
>Extremely centralized government run by a few people
>Mass censorship
>Mass-killings of poor sods who get in the way (even if we don't count the kikes that was hundreds of thousands killed for other reasons during the war)
>tight control of any publication/media
>Tight control of music (I really like jazz, which the Nazis explicitly banned so fuck em)
>Citizens can arbitrarily turn in their neighbors for bullshit reasons to a secret police
>State-run religion
>Gun Control
I could go on. None of this is compatible with the beliefs America was founded upon and the mass-centralization of the Nazi government is the antithesis of most of what /k/ believe in. I'm aware of the various environmental and health campaigns Nazi Germany launched, that doesn't make up at all for the shortcomings. In short, you're a nutter.

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>>34581755
I'm not gonna start arguing with a denier you likely are but you might want to look through this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nazi_war_crimes

As I posted before, German adolescents were beheaded for spreading critical leaflets...

It's people like you that make others think the areal bombings were ok

>>34581679
>Started by and only engaged in by the "good guys"
Germany started the war by indiscriminately bombing a city. Read some on the bombing of Wieluń, 90% of the city was destroyed.
Not to mention strafing of civilians fleeing the front.

No end to historical revisionism by you Nazi-boos.

>>34581748
>The people you worked with after the war?
Extremely reluctantly, and then not at all after about 5 years. Remember the Berlin Airlift?
>BECAUSE YOU CAN JUST DODGE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE PEOPLE YOU ARE ALLIED WITH & DIRECTLY ARMING/FUNDING?
Uh yeah? We're not the fucking Soviet Union. We did help them along and in hindsight that was probably not the most beneficial, but we needed to keep the two fronts up and going. Also
>The UK started it for months without a response
Yeah I'm going to need a source on that with casualty listings. Don't bullshit me.
>Killing millions of people throughout Europe
That was mainly the Soviets
>>34581755
You just keep going with this shit don't you?
>freer speech laws
Source me please. You're making shit up at this point
>If you don't agree with my rather fucking extreme position, you're a commie
Jesus you make the most right-wing Republican look like a fucking socialist.

>>34581756
Literally nonsense.

>>34581771
Bombing cities that are right in front of your advancing forces is a little fucking different from fire bombing a city filled with refugees nowhere near your troops, and of zero military value.

>>34581761
>>34581763
Fictional post-war propaganda, try reading some real history of what it was to live in Nazi Germany.
FACT: It was no different from any other western country.

Also it's a deliberate ignoring of the serious social/economic issues of those days, which led to all this stuff.

>>34581718
Here is a quote of yours:
>One could argue wheter the essentialy non-existant defense of German cities in 44-45 makes the bombardments illegal according to this the Hague convention
This is the kind of bullshit only a fan boy could type.

when called out, you're response is to change the subject. You pretend like the guys supported bombing civilians when all he did was call you out for making a retarded statement. Read here: >>34579027 and here >>34576308
Nothing he says is either in favor of, or against bombing civilians. Just stating facts.

You made a bullshit claim, got called out for making stuff up and now shrieking like a headless chicken. Just go away.

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>>34581791
hahaha you're a typical wehraboo, simply denying everything and ignoring what points out your bullshit

>free speech
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

>no different from any other western country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nazi_war_crimes

>cities that are right in front of your advancing forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry_Blitz

fuck off to >>>/pol/ the allied bombing of civilians was evil, but excusing Nazis is just completely retarded

>>34581802
fair enough, legally it wasn't forbidden, still I think it's clear it was evil and wrong.

>>34581791
>Bombing cities that are right in front of your advancing forces is a little fucking different
Bombing a city with no military targets leveling 90% of it's buildings and killing 1200 civilians is only """different""" because of the side you're a fan boy of.

What was the military target of bombing that city? and strafing fleeing civilians? I can understand if you're encountering resistance from the town, but the bombing happened before the Wehrmacht crossed the border, being still tens of kilometers away.

>>34581780
>We did help them along and in hindsight that was probably not the most beneficial,

What do you mean hindsight? What made Germany the enemy of France/Britain/USA? Such a diabolical threat that handing half the world to communism + destroying western civilization was a fine price to pay to end it?

There is no surprise that the people responsible for our current state of affairs see no issue with the results of past wars. Hence why Trump creates outrage when he rhetorically asks "Why did the civil war have to happen?"
Modern history starts with the allied "victory" in WW2, everything else follows.

>Jesus you make the most right-wing Republican look like a fucking socialist.

I would fit ideologically in with the average person 80 years ago. The fact that so called conservatives embrace marxist agendas means they are NOT conservative at all, not that I am extreme.

>>34571383

I wonder if things were awkward when the German ashes met the Jewish ashes.

>>34581807
I am talking about before the war, obviously traitors & subversives will be executed during a war.

This condemnation and villification of the Nazi strawman, this one sided nit picking of everything they did, is an essential part of modern brainwashing.

>>34571285
do it again Bomber Harris

>>34576692
I fucking love that video

>>34581870
People were murdered and robbed of their freedom and rights before the war.
They murdered defenseless people in cold blood. If you support these bastards, you should kill yourself.

>>34570245
Because fuck the Germans.

Stop pitying them. They were supporters of the current regime and actively produced goods for their war machine.

Sucks for them that Hitler didn't mention the huge fleet of bombers were coming and sucks for them that the Germans played hardball on a city first.

>>34576374
Yes, total war is immoral.

As good a time as any to tell an bold aviation joke that was popular when I was learning to fly way too many years ago.

>A British Airways plane lands at Hamburg airport and after clearing the runway, Hamburg Ground asks "have you been here before?"

>The captain takes the radio call and replies "Yes," to which Ground responds "Very well. Take taxiway Echo to Gate 59 via Foxtrot."

>The BA pilot replies "could we have some taxi guidance?" and Ground responds "I thought you said you have been here before?" and the BA a pilot replies "Yes but it was fifty years ago, dark, and I didn't land"

>>34581606
>being a utilitarian
www lad

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>>34580829
Are you retarded?

>>34581606
It was in the hundreds of thousands for Dresden m8

>>34581308
Literally 3 months

>>34582204
>muh 100 gorrilion krauts!!!

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>>34571285
Do it again Bomber Harris

>>34581838
>What made Germany the enemy of France/Britain/USA?

In the case of the US, the fact that Germany declared war on the US first. Don't want to be our enemy? Don't declare war on us, fuckwit.

>>34581838
>I would fit ideologically in with the average person 80 years ago.

Citation, pls.

>>34581731
Wehra-dindu didn't even respond m8

Top wit

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>>34570245
Kek, stay salty Wehraboo.

>>34582204
>believing long debunked Goebbels memes.

>>34581755
>Nazi Germany had freer gun laws & speech laws than anywhere in Europe today

Irrelevant to the discussion. Why did you even bring that up?

>>34581959
Mildly savage

>>34581755
>Going along with their nazi villification bullshit makes you literally the same as vile leftists like Obama.

The irony is deafening

>>34571188
>we

>>34570245
Why Dresden specifically

What about we talk about other cities bombed to oblivion like Hamburg or Berlin or Tokyo

>>34581743
>They invented all the socialist/animal rights/environmental stuff we take for granted.


Socialist stuff, yes, I'll agree that they came up with a particularly pungent form of that vileness. We can agree on that. You're gonna need to post some sources on the animal rights claim. What animal rights did they invent? Did they allow hamsters to vote, or turtles to hold elected office? Now, about the environmental stuff; lets see the sources on that. It's going to have to go beyond the mandatory recycling laws that they imposed, since that's not a German invention.

In short, I'm calling bullshit on just about your entire post.

>>34581718
>How hard can it be to acknowledge targeting civilians is wrong regardless who does it?

Unfortunately, you're using that as a linchpin to anchor your narrative. So, you'll get a lot of pushback on even that fundamental point. You're using a Soviet tactic- this point is correct, so my entire position must be the only right one.

Only, you're not as good at it as the Soviets.

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>>34583319
I quoted someone else, the greentext just failed

>>34583353
so what narrative do i anchor?

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>>34581763
>Gun Control

Nazi gun control is completely false meme. Germany had strict gun laws before Nazis took over. Nazis made getting rifles and other long guns lot easier for ordinary citizens and getting pistols lot easier for military personnel and members of NSDAP. Only people who had problems in getting weapons permits in Nazi Germany were criminal and unreliable elements in society, like communists, kikes, gypsies, faggots and ordinary criminals.

>>34570245
The jooos told us to.

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>>34571285
do it again Bomber Harris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sil76t2X_DE

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>>34572301
>Also one warcrime doesn't excuse another.
That's rich, how about you tell the Christian Phalangists in Lebanon that one.

>>34583631
>Only people who had problems in getting weapons permits in Nazi Germany were undesirable elements in society, like communists, Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and criminals.

Fixed for unbiased historical perspective. You're welcome.

>>34577942
As if the Germans cared. And if they had won, the narrative would have been the same.

And I bet you would be defending it.

>>34583631
>faggots
looks like you're going to have a hard time getting a rifle man

>>34581679
>Started by and only engaged in by the "good guys"

Ever hear of Guernica? The Axis did that one long before WW2 started. And then there was Rotterdam and Coventry. Dude, you really need to stop drinking the Kool-Ade.

>>34581539
Might not be a bad idea. It would give the butthurt wehraboos a place to congregate. That takes them out of general circulation, improving overall board quality.

>>34572095
the fuck is this shit

>>34570245
YO MODS
DELETE THIS SHITTY /POL/ THREAD
SERIOUSLY.

Yallk wana talk about racemixing ?
Leave fucking k to be k and pol to be pol..
jesus fucking christ.

>>34581503
>I doubt most of those who justify Harris would justify McVeigh

Do you not understand the fundamental difference between the two? One was acting on behalf of his government, against a declared enemy of that government. The other was acting against his government, as illegal reprisal for actions of that government.

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It doesn't matter anymore. Britain is being consumed by the islamic hordes, the population slowly being replace by subhumans. Hitler's vegence is slowly being complete.

>>34581344
>D-I-C-T-A-T-O-R-S-H-I-P

Not helping your case any. Now you're trying to claim that 1 man bullied a nation into collaborating with and condoning his criminal acts. That they just stood by, wringing their hands and weeping, while he committed all of the Nazi atrocities.

>>34584820
>>34570245

YOOOOO
THIS SHIT BELONGS IN POL
NOT HERE

>>34584823
>>34584838
>>34584864

NONE OF THIS IS FIREARMS RELATED
DELETE THREAD PLEASE.

>>34571285
do it again bomber harris

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>>34584877
You can delete this thread, but you cant delete the truth!

>>34584951
Why does he have a mouser if he is dressed as a ww2 era wermacht soldier?

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>>34572041
I honestly don't believe allied leaders were so confident that they were plotting against the soviets with Dresden. The allies were frantically developing a nuke because they thought Hitler would get his first and annihilate them at this stage of the war.

>>34584877
Cool it autism man this is the weapons board. You probably own the worst guns.

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D O

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>>34572101
>>34572269
>>34572287
>>34572301
>>34572303

>>34584864
Not what I was trying to say, but undoubtetly there were countless victims of allied bombing who were completely innocent.

>>34584877
As you wish

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>>34570245

Anne Frank gets the gas? Frankfurt's getting glassed.

>>34570245
Why did the Germans bomb, Madrid, and London and Coventry and Antwerp and etc etc etc?

>>34581755

>Nazi Germany had freer gun laws & speech laws than anywhere in Europe today

Yeah, I'm sure if a Rabbi had walked into a German gun store in 1938, saying he was sick of the SA hoodlums trying to ransack his synagogue and that he wanted to buy a shotgun to defend his property, they would have sold one to him-oh wait.

>>34581755
>What evil are they guilty of that wasn't military necessity during a life/death war?

pic related

A girl, a mere child, now a corpse in some pit somewhere thanks to the despicable excuse of a government known as the Third Reich.

>>34572095
This is like a rage comic for edgy /pol/ users.
What utter garbage.

>>34572303
>Invade Poland
>Invade your other neighbors
>Your retarded buttbuddy on the other side of the world goes apeshit due to butthurt over oil
>Jump in yet another war because they did
>We dindunuffin

>>34580969
Fun fact: The charred german bit was copied from a /his/ thread

>>34581755
>Gun laws
As long as you were one of the groups of people allowed to be armed
>Speech laws
Jej.

>>34584820
>One of the most famous and controversial air campaigns in history
>Not /k/
Go back to /pol/ yourself.

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>>34572303
Poland would like a word with you.

>>34586756
War is a rough business. Every one of those 'innocent Nazi victims' brought the war one second closer to being over.

Sometimes, when you're dealing with a truly insane ideology the only way you can get it to quit running amok is by slaughtering enough of its adherents, and their children, that it can no longer function as an ideology. In this we obviously failed, since we're still dealing with wehraboos and Nazi apologists to this day.

And you know what the worst part is? You miserable fucks created those Antifa slimeballs.

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>>34587776
>Anne Frank gets the gas? Frankfurt's getting glassed.

>>34570245
Britain was pissed about having her civilians killed by German bombs and decided to take a little back. If Germany didn't want to get a bunch of Germans killed they shouldn't have started a fucking war.

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>>34576885
True dat, anon. True dat.

the firestorm that engulfed Dresden and Hamburg was a direct result of the weather. The Brits started to study weather patterns over germany to recreate the effects. Churchill was well aware of what they were doing even commented on how horrible and uncivilized it was but it didn't stop him from doing it again.

>>34570245
Dresden was a rail marshalling area and thus vital to the movement of material around Germany.
Dresden also had many small factories and workshops that produced goods vital to the war effort. Their distributed layout across the city however meant that they were not worth the effort of a bombing mission until later in the war when they were some of the only untouched factories left in Germany.

As a result of the bombing the railroad junction that was Dresden was out for the rest of the war. And this had a considerable effect on German logistics.

Ignore all the shills who say Dresden wasn't a target. That was a lie created by communists to discredit the allies of WW2 and create dissension. And to claim they were the benevolent liberators of the city. And totally not raping the women and.

>>34571387
>We killed 1/4 of the North Korean population in the Korean War.
If people knew the extent of destruction of the Korean War dwarfed that of even 'Nam, Westerners would understand why the NK regime has lasted so long and remains unrivaled.

>>34570245
Because they deserved it.

>>34572269
They deserved it. It wasn't even enough, we should have done the same to Berlin, and then instituted a breeding program to wipe out all traces of kraut lineage. That's how wars used to be fought before we had rules, rules that America has done more to enforce than perhaps any other country.

>>34575132
"Dresden had no validity as a military target", said David Irving, the known holocaust denier.

At least know who these people are before you quote them you stupid fucking dipshit.

>>34574496
They did it first. They set the precedent that established it as a valid and effective tactic. And that's on top of everything else they did. We never set up camps to exterminate millions of people with industrial efficiency.

>>34586573
E D G Y

>>34581755
>free gun laws
Join the SS and you get free guns!

>free speech laws
Say anything you want as long as it's not one of the numerous things that will get you sent to the camps!

>>34583631
People like you deserve to be sodomized and beaten to death by a mob of africans wielding purple 12 inch dildos.

>>34586553
DO IT AGAIN BOMBER HARRIS

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Every single bit of evidence not from the nazi's points towards them being the aggressors and all round "bad guys", even from neutral parties in the war
I don't understand the kind of mind that decides the whole of the world is wrong and that actually the propaganda from a man literally called the minister for propaganda is right
It just doesn't make any sense

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Because they wanted total war and they got it