Birdshot vs buckshot home defence

>>34544327
Buckshot you fucking mong.

You deserve to die if you trust your life to birdshot

>>34544327
3 inch magnum slugs

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>>34544345
I keep a shotgun loaded with buckshot in the chamber and tube, and 3" Slugs on the stock incase I need something more precise.

Pic is when I used to have the slugs in the gun and buck on the stock

>Would buckshot have over penetration

Bullets are good at punching through thin layers of stuff, but slow down quickly when they have to drag their asses through a more continuous medium.

This means most walls are utter shit at stopping bullets.

Meanwhile the human body is pretty good at stopping bullets.

Thus anything that won't punch through drywall like it's barely there isn't good against humans, and anything that's good against humans will zip right through a half dozen interior walls before it even thinks about stopping.

>>34544327
2 questions:
Do you live in an apartment or a house?
Whats the longest distance inside your house?

If you live in an apartment then birdshot will be just fine. If you live in house then buckshot will be sufficient.

If the longest distance in your house is over 20 meters then buckshot is what you want. Under 20 meters birdshot will be just fine.

>>34544394
Blow it out your ass Elmer

>>34544404
Laughed my ass of at this and I don't know why.

>>34544327
Slugs

>>34544327
The answer is always going to be buck. Birdshot is incredibly ineffective against anything human.

There is a story about some highschool nigger in detroit(iirc) who, as part of a gang initiation, needed to kill someone. He tricked some poor classmate into driving him to an abandoned house in the bad part of town and shot him multiple times point blank with 12g birdshot, one of which was in the head. The kid survived and made a full recovery.

From what I gathered, whoever was suggesting birdshot for self-defense probably just checked the damage it does to a paper target and assumed it would do the same to flesh, ignoring the possibility that different medium may wield different results.

>>34544393
>This means most walls are utter shit at stopping bullets.

What? Maybe in USA but in Europe the walls would withstand 7.62x39 in most cases. All solid build houses do actually.

>>34544584
This is actually why I would rather use birdshot personally. I don't want to kill any of the local meth heads that break into my house, so one birdshot as a warning/fuck you, followed by buckshot in the tube if they do not comply with my orders or pose a greater threat following being shot.

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>>34544327
I've only found one brand of birdshot that I'd trust at all for anything other than clays and tweety birds. But I still wouldn't want to use it for HD.
You can cut down trees within 10 yards, which pic related was shot at. Half to 3/4 of it stays together in a tight clump because of the flawed design of the wads.

>>34544327
buckshot, what the fuck are you tranny phantom?

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>>34544637
>current day europe
Muh diversity got thick wallz

>>34544584
That said nothing wrong with using No1 to 4 shot buck to somewhat mitigate overpen while still blasting the fuck outta tyrone

>>34544327
Birdshot.

Also, shotguns are good for home defense outside of your house, not for inside. If you fire off a shotgun inside your house, you are going to have tinnitus for the rest of your life.

S-Ball plastik for that extra kevlar penetration

>>34544327
Birdshot will overpenetrate multiple layers of drywall just as easily but will not usually go through an exterior wall. The lethality is by no means guaranteed and you would need to be at 10 feet or less. My advice is to not load with really powerful 00 game buckshot but to drop to low recoil buckshot like #4 to still have an effective round with less risk. Personally I'm using Federal premium 00 because fuck everything if my shotgun has to come out. HD for me includes the exterior of my property and all the walls around here are brick.

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>>34544921
>guys, he doesn't keep electronic ear-pro next to his HD gun.

>>34544921
Short of a 22lr or maybe a 357 lever gun that is the case with most firearms indoors its just a matter of how wide a range of tones and how much loss is involved. As to bird if it stays in the wad it should work out. Contact distance to 15ish feet would be about all I would consider. But I use lighter buck 1-4 shot so take it for what its worth

>>34544584
To add on to that, the kid was actually able to walk away and flag someone down for help.

A distant cousin of mine got shot in the face with birdshot while a rival drug dealer was robbing him of his weed and his wife. He's still alive even if one strains to call what he has a jaw.
Go with buckshot

>>34544786
Just remember that dead men tell no tales.

>>34544327

It wont make much difference at the ranges that a gunfight will be fought at in the home. The projectiles will most likely be still within the shotcup, go pattern your shotgun at different ranges and see what round is best for you.

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>>34544786
>not wanting to wipe out meth head criminals breaking into your home intent on doing you harm

Anon plz

>Which is better for home defence?
>the one that kills ?
>or the one that doesn't kill ?
halp me guyz

Look up the laws of your state

In most cases it's better to kill intruders in your home because if you maim them they'll pull some horse shit and try to sue for damages. Doesn't matter if they have a chance of winning that's thousands in legal fees you don't need.

>>34544786

You are giving that methhead a 50/50 chance of either never bothering you again, or coming back when you aren't around to steal your gun for easy meth money.

>>34544786
If you shoot someone without the intent to kill you will be fucked in the ass by the legal system.

Using rounds that you KNOW are less-lethal means you weren't in fear for your life, and therefor had no valid reason to shoot a fucker.

Shoot to kill or do not shoot at all, this is self defense 101.

75gr OTM.

>>34544327
Always use buckshot.

If you're concerned about overpenetration, use #1 or #4 buckshot instead of #00

Birdshot does not reliably kill or even stop people. Using birdshot in self-defense opens you up for legal liability and criminal charges against you.

>>34544327
>>34544335
>>34544393
>>34544394
>>34544584

for these close quarters and the possibility of collateral, you need to compromise.

No.4 or T-size buck is about perfect. still always think about where someone else may be;

if you live with other people in rooms close by you might try something between No.2 and BBB

>>34544786
> one birdshot as a warning/fuck you
It's literally like you want to get sued. Do you have any idea how much of a fucking retard you are?

>>34544327
#4 buck if your concerned with over penetration.

Bird shot and reclaimed shot is for shooting cans and bottles.

>>34544921
Seriously nigga? I keep electronice ear pro and plugs on my night stand simply for my wife's snoring and when the gardeners start mowing at 6AM

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maybe wax slugs if you are worried about penetration, but buckshot otherwise.
birb shot is only effective against birbs.

>>34545495
Maybe he is concerned about getting brought up on murder charges?
Some of us live in some pretty anti-gun places.

A definitive answer from someone who knows what he's talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaR1EVybUgc

>>34544327

41 pellet #4 buckshot.

You're welcome nigger.

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>>34544404
Thank you anon, well put.

To OP, buckshot is what you want. I prefer a full tube of standard velocity #1 buck, 2 3/4" shell, standard recoil. You get 16 pellets, all .30 cal, and none of the recoil of a magnum shell.
If I can't find #1 buck, then 0 buck will do, and if I can't find those, I will take my chances with the time tested 9 pellet 00 buck, 2 3/4" shell, standard velocity/recoil.

Low velocity buckshot was popular for a while but I don't trust it to penetrate barriers. I want to be able to shoot someone ducking behind my tv or couch.

I also don't like the recoil of the magnum buckshot in my pump. It's fine for hunting, one or two shots, but I wouldn't want to rack 6 of those puppies off real quick

>>34544786

Depending on States, it's actually illegal to do warning shots as it doesn't mean self-defense/Castle doctrine and can get you prosecuted if not White or a respectable person. Or the police are just assholes.

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>>34548800
The 5 common buckshot pellet sizes and their standard loadings

how retarded would a stoeger condor 12 gauge be for home defense?

>>34544584
Here is the story of the highschool (white) kid who survives an entire tube full of birdshot at point blank range. It's worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_PtJwNu3Q

>>34548929
It wouldn't be ideal, but better than nothing. Why not get a Mossberg 500 for $300 or $400? It comes with an 18" barrel for HD and a 26" or 28" for hunting, and it holds 6 shells.

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On the left, a Remington 12ga 00 buck 2 3/4" shell.

On the right a Suprema she'll of the same spec, supposedly.

>>34548929

Most malfunctions with a pump shotgun are going to come from you short-stroking the slide. So, a double barrel has an advantage in that you've got two shots that you're guaranteed not to fuck up -- simply press the trigger again.

The downside is that you have two and only two shots. You're probably not a cowboy action shooter.

>>34544637
You are fucking retarded, not even foot thick brick stops even intermediate cartridges. I tell you what, why don't you stand behind you shit-stained euro-mud-hut, and let me shoot 7.62x39 at you, and see how well it stops it.

What is the best shell if I don't want to take human life, but to neutralize the threat?

I believe in self defense but I personally don't want to live with the burden of having taken another man's life.

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>>34544327
Buckshot for sure. Birdshot isn't fatal even with a headshot. Pic related.

>>34544366
>BPS

mah nigga.

>>34549792
cuck.

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>>34544327
Neither

#4 buckshot master race

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>>34549792
>I believe in self defense but I personally don't want to live with the burden of having taken another man's life

>>34544584
Found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_PtJwNu3Q

>>34549891
Agreed, #4B > 00
I shoot coyote with #F birdshot. Barely smaller than #4B. It goes straight through a coyote, plenty of penetration for 2 legged predators

>>34544921
>he doesn't already have the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Birdshot is for little birds

Buckshot is for medium sized game

>>34544327
>Not using buckshot
What do you want to do, tickle him, or kill him?

>>34549792
2/10 bait

>>34548507
That guys a pretty good host. Liked his video, is he as popular as Hickok on here and ice just been sleeping on him?

What is the nastiest most lethal cartridge I can load into my 12 gauge

>>34544327
The risk of buckshot overpenetrating is minor but the risk of birdshot underpenetrating and not stopping an attacker is very real and should be your first concern as far as ammo choice goes.

>>34554558
http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/12_Gauge.html

Have fun

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>>34544327
The only choice should be buckshot vs slugs.

Shotguns suck in general. Shit capacity, high recoil, low penetration.

Absolute shit, only mildly better than a handgun and probably only because it has a stock on it.

Just wax the birdshot.
Or a cut shell

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>>34544327
12 gauge buck n ball> anything else

>>34554604
>Shotguns suck in general. Shit capacity, high recoil, low penetration.
And a fuckload of killing ability. I doubt anyone would prefer to be shot by 9 .38 caliber lead balls covering an area that's about as big as a large fist in HD distances. That tight cloud of metal is going to completely demolish whatever flesh and bone gets in its way.

It's called bird shot for a reason.

Use slugs or high velocity buck, 00 or larger for pavement apes.

People told me th lethal effect of shotguns is shock damage because of hitting a huge surface area on the body, not penetration/interior damage.

Shouldnt bird make up for smaller diameter with more bullets rsulting in a similar shock effect? Is that fuddlore?

>>34544366
fuck off dan lol

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>>34544796

What pizza brand box makes the best target?

>>34544327
BUCK
BUCK
BUCK
BUCK
BUCK

birdshot is not a reliable method of killing somebody. Once the shot hit's the target each pellet penetrates on it's own. Birdshot is notorious for hitting bone and stopping cold or bouncing off of it and moving parallel to the bone in question.

#1 buckshot is the smallest size that can be relied upon. #4 will probably do the trick as well and offers significantly less penetration through common building materials(and more pellets) but i wouldn't recommend it unless you're more worried about what will happen if you miss then literally staying alive.

>>34555060

Flechettes aren't very good, dude. They never land straight and they're too light to do much.

MAKING A QUICK PSA POST:

>>34544327
troll line

>>34544394
>>34544637
>>34544786
>>34544921
>>34545038
>>34545185
>>34549347
>>34550272
>>34554682

Literal retards.

>>34554604
>>34554859

Just when you think it can't get worse

>>34548507
>implying

>>34544603
surprisingly not retarded for 4chan

Protip: never take advice from 4chan seriously

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>>34555111
wasted trips

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>>34549069
Fucking niggers

>>34555177

You don't seem to have seen what flechettes do. They come out of the cup and scatter like mad. They don't land straight. Most of them land sideways and keyhole, losing shitloads of velocity in the process.

>>34554924
That's a very simple question with a very complex answer.
I'm a red baron man myself, I won't go into all the greentext it would require to explain how I chose it. We'd be here all day.

>>34555227
do you know what a SABOT is?

>>34555267

Yeah, and that's not fucking SABOT, you triple nigger.

>>34548507
>>34549069
Probably some of the best videos I've seen posted on here for shotgun information. Those results with the 2oz birdshot load were pretty interesting, I've never considered that before. For Ross' story, it's a good thing the attacker was too stupid to buy the buckshot/slug loads behind the counter/locked case. Another example of a clueless attacker, is the Seattle Pacific University Shooting, where the attacker is seen firing a shotgun blast at a girl (before getting pepper sprayed and disarmed), who isn't phased whatsoever, because the shooter was using weak birdshot, as suggested by EMTs.

>>34555276
then what is it

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>>34555227
That's because the flechette loads you saw were shitty amateur ones where half of them were loaded into the shell upside down. Here's footage of real military flechette 12 gauge rounds vs Soft Armor, a Rifle Plate, and Ballistic Gel at high speed: https://youtu.be/uB5RZTBhK4c?t=15m12s

>>34555394
...a wad/shotcup? Have you ever seen a shotgun shell pulled apart before?

>>34555485
>literal advertisement
People have tested flechette over and over again on youtube and other media and it's always ALWAYS hot garbage.

>>34555512
It's a FLETC training video, dumbass. Why would it be an advertisement?

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>>34555504
do you even reverse image search

>>34544327
>>34544335
This.
Also it's going in the wall anyways so you may as well make less work for yourself after.

>not using napalm rounds
It's like you are not even trying

#4 buck

Buckshot 00.

Trust me. Birdshot may pattern like a rifle at close range. But at 00 or slugs will literally knock you down like a freight train.

>>34544786
b8

>>34544393
What about those ceramic rounds I forget they called

Don't penetrate walls well but shoot a meatyboy and they end up shredded by ceramic dust / shards / w/e

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29mEJFFIvo&t=385s

#7 1/2 and #8 is good

>>34544327
Cut the birdshot around the shotcup, but only cut up to the 11oclock point,
You now have a cut shell that behaves like a low recoil slug. It is viable for self defense.
Buck is still better.

>>34555373

>luck

Shot placement is everything no matter which gun you use. If he wouldn't have pressed the barrel to his head and just stood back and shot him in the head that guy would be dead.

>>34544327
Is a human closer to the size of a bird or the size of a buck?

>>34559162
does it matter at 20 feet?

>>34549833
http://www.wow.com/wiki/Death_of_Ali_Abdulhadi_Mushaima
it is fatal

>>34559200
Could, I'd trust buck more to put down a human sized target immediately.

Every single shell in your home defense shotgun should be 00 buckshot.

>>34559239

The shot at that range is still in a big ball. All the fucking movies showing the shot killing everyone in the room is just shit tier hollywood bullshit. Its when you get out to further ranges when the shot has had a chance to spread is when bird-shot loses its lethality. Its like the faggots killing people at 15 feet with a rifle. At that range a pistol would be just as good but with a shotgun or rifle you have to worry about intruders grabbing your barrel in a doorway.

>>34559270
go to bed kid

>>34557242

>What is physics: The Post

Momentum says no faggot

>>34559449
it may not knock people down through actual force but dont most people fall or jump/seize when shot with large calibers?

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I'm surprised no one mentioned this yet

>>34555556
>>34555555

>>34544335
In my country, if you shoot dead a thief or an aggressor who hasn't a gun with him, you go straight to jail. Lives matter more than safety, even if it's a scumback. So it's better to injury(not too much, or jail too) than kill

>>34562139

>lives matter more than safety

Wot

>>34562139
Your country sucks dick. I hope you enjoy getting run over by Mudslimes who value a goat more than YOUR life.

>>34557121
This is the correct answer.

>>34544394
Birdshot is most definitely not fine out to 20 meters. I have been shooting phesants at ranges like this for most of my life and it is most surely not adequate. Sometimes just a few Inches of penetration ( in a football sized bird with thin skin and almost no fat. Let alone a relatively thick skinned ape with thick bones, body fat, all wrapped in clothing. But do whatever you want we have had armed retards in this country for centuries i know I'm not going to change that.

>>34544786
You should not have a gun if that's how you think things will work.

>>34562139
You're a retarded cuck

>>34544366
nice

>>34555119
thank you for your opinions which nobody asked for faggot

>>34555373
exactly, in that video which nigger shoots up school with his break action shotgat and with fucking birdshot. that bitch talking on the phone took it straight to chest and just walked back like.

>>34549792
Throw your dildos at him

>>34562404
what if he is living in a Muslim country you dumb nigger. fuck americans. they think anywhere not america is fucking europe

>>34554519
I think his shit video quality was holding him back for a while, he finally went HD recently.

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>>34563604

>>34544366
>Keeping a shell chambered in a device that will fire if it so much as falls over

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I hope birdshot is fine for HD...

>>34549792
>I personally don't want to live with the burden of having taken another man's life.
You won't have to worry about that after Jamal kills you and you can rest assured he won't worry about such things either.

>>34565431
Your carpet looks like blue waffle.

>>34544327
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#mozTocId430646