Flawless Plan?

>>34540419
Yes, the could, but they won't. Russia, unlike America, does not meddle in the affairs of other countries. They respect the concept of national sovereignty, which America has wholly forgotten since the days of Wilson.

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>>34540429

>>34540419
The Baltics were never meant to be an absolute defense line. They're basically a buffer to absorb and slow down any Russian advance until NATO can organize a counterattack.

It's the same reason why Russia grabbed Crimea and wants to drag Ukraine back into Russian orbit, because they want a buffer between themselves and NATO as well.

Yeah, but in case Russia actually does that, NATO will be forced to go article 5 on their ass.

>>34540419

Please liberate Lithuania too, I want my chance at looting and maraudering

>>34540456
Unless the Baltics are the objective, in which case the slowing them down is superfluous. They'll have already stopped.

>>34540484
Then it would come down to how well Russia could withstand the counterattack. It's strategically unacceptable for NATO to allow Russia to occupy the Baltics.

So basically, the question is how quickly NATO can organize a counterattack versus Russia's capability to set up a viable defense line in enemy territory with stretched supply lines.

>>34540484
>>Unless the Baltics are the objective
Yeah, but what's the point?

>>34540443
Not an argument.
>>34540456
>Russia grabbed Crimea
No, Crimea was always part of Russia until a communist dictator in the 1950s said otherwise. Most Crimeans ARE ethnically Russian.
>>34540456
>wants to drag Ukraine back into Russian orbit
If they wanted to do that, they could have marched all the way to Kiev by now.
>>34540484
Russia doesn't want the Baltic states.
>>34540496
>with stretched supply lines
The Baltic states are only 200 km wide.

>>34540506
>give the crimea away
>nu-uh I want it back, it's our rightful clay!

>>34540522
>autistic shoe beating
More like forced to give it away.

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>>34540522
> aboo hoo hoo, da evil commies oppress us n sheit, we wanna be free
> ayo hol up we obviously wanna keep the shit commies gave us

>>34540506
>No, Crimea was always part of Russia until a communist dictator in the 1950s said otherwise. Most Crimeans ARE ethnically Russian.
Semantics, really. By all legal measures Crimea was a part of Ukraine, especially if Russia had to resort to military force to seize the region. Anyways, who "really" owns land is always a murky issue because there is ALWAYS somebody else who has a claim on it.

>If they wanted to do that, they could have marched all the way to Kiev by now.
Making a concerted push for Kiev would have definitely provoked a response from NATO. The best they can manage is to stir up trouble in the eastern regions to prevent Ukraine from becoming a formal NATO member.

>The Baltic states are only 200 km wide.
That's still a lot of ground to cover if you want to feed and supply thousands of troops. Compounded even more if the roads and infrastructure are sabotaged/bombed out.

>>34540544
Russians parked their tanks in georgia no problem, and georgia has been larping around NATO for a while longer than Ukraine
Still got btfo and NATOcucks didnt do shit
Then the western puppet who ruled georgia actually got transferred to rule in ukraine for a while, because that's the type of shit that happens in pro-democracy color revolutions.
Admit it, Russia got your number with those.

>>34540506
>Most Crimeans ARE ethnically Russian.

Huh, yeah. After being ethnically cleansed Crimea is Russian. Weird.

Russia seems to be that a lot.

>>34540557
sounds based
I've watched a documentary on crimean tatars and they seem a bit subhuman for my taste
Never mind cockholes, the designated political prostitutes of europe alongside poland, who WOULDN'T purge those guys

>>34540496
>stretched supply line
Kaliningrad ensures they'll have better lines than NATO.

aside from (((someone))) desperately trying to get whites to fight among each other, the baltics are such a big joke that the russian engineer corps alone could probably run over them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCiDk0b-6SA

>>34540561
>Kaliningrad
>Literal stone's throw from Poland, Sweden, Finland, and Norway.

>>34540560
They did it with actual ethnic Ukrainians as well.

>>34540544
>especially if Russia had to resort to military force to seize the region
They didn't. Crimeans rejoined Russia peacefully and voluntarily.
>>34540544
>Making a concerted push for Kiev would have definitely provoked a response from NATO
Why would it? Ukraine is not part of NATO and never has been. The fact that Russians haven't marched to Kiev proves that they do not have any desire to do so.
>>34540544
>That's still a lot of ground to cover if you want to feed and supply thousands of troops
No, it's about two hours by truck. Not an insurmountable logistical problem for a country that manages to support a navy on the other side of Siberia.
>>34540544
>Compounded even more if the roads and infrastructure are sabotaged/bombed out
Trucks can drive offroad just fine.
>>34540555
The war in Georgia was to protect the independent state of Abkhazia.
>>34540557
You mean the Muslim Tatars after they took sides with the German invaders? Can't really say I blame the Russians for that one.
>>34540577
After they took sides with the Germans? No way!
>>34540573
Sweden and Finland are not NATO members, and Poland is too poor and selfish to be of much help to NATO.

>>34540555
Georgia was a highly limited conflict, and Russia's aim was never to occupy the entire the country.

Like with Ukraine, they refrained from trying to seize the whole country and retreated before NATO could find an excuse to step in (since Georgia, like Ukraine, is not a NATO member), conveniently leaving a few behind in the "independent" South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

>>34540577
> ethnic ukrainians
yeah, cockholes
literally WHO cares
the only people who do are brainwashed burgerlards/various natocuck trash and cockholes themselves, because pretty much everyone in europe knows that cockholes are discount poolacks and both of them are the worst type of political prostitute (ie. niggers of europe)
purge these guys all fucking day if you wanna, Putin, they make white people look bad

>>34540456
>It's the same reason why Russia grabbed Crimea and wants to drag Ukraine back into Russian orbit, because they want a buffer between themselves and NATO as well.

Democracy is only Democracy when America says it is. Crimea voted to be in Russia.

So how many operational & mission capable aircraft does russian western military district have? 100?

>>34540593
>Hey, Serbs, you have to let Muslims have Kosovo because of muh democracy, muh self-determination, and muh human rights.
>No, Crimeans, you can't just join Russia because you voted for it. We think your election was rigged even though we have no evidence of that.

>>34540590
Like with Ukraine, after a thorough cost-benefit analysis, the Western "goal" was shut down in the simplest way possible, with as little drama as they could.
Georgia now has a neutral to Russia government and these 2 are sort of "restoring" relations, which will take time, but is definitely better than having Georgia jump on the NATOcuck train and it all was done with a nice stunt, to show Georgians how quickly they'd get BTFO if they start fucking around in the neighbourhood.
Literally the same with Ukraine. Fast secured port then the whole peninsula and a frozen conflict that definitely paints the West in a terrible way yet again. Obviously more serious than Georgia, but then there's much more at stake, so it'll be another decade before the climate to purge UA ultras will be right, they're on their deathbed though. Will happen locally again though, because Ukrainians are pretty pissed.

>>34540604
> muh aircraft
amerishits don't know fuck about fighting an ACTUAL war, so I don't know why they think they'd be a match to Russia on the European land war theatre
you'd get fucked up the ass, big time

>>34540593
>Crimea voted to be in Russia.

Yeah sure, just like lil kim is voted in as supreme leader every election.

Funny thing, you can get almost total compliance by occupying an area and threatening to rape and kill the family of anyone who objects or tries to go against you.

Why do threads that involve Russia in any way always turn into shitfests? I'm starting to think that better war discussion is found in /int/, as bad as the board otherwise is

>>34540429
What is
>Winter War
>Korean War
>Afghanistan
>Georgian civil war
>Abkhazia war
>Tajikstani civil war
>Ukraine civil war
And that's just since the October revolution

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>>34540638
or N. Ireland

>>34540645
Because russian government literally pays people to defend it over the internet.
Although they are probably not the only ones to do so

>>34540616
Guess I struck a nerve there, so how much do Russians know about fighting an actual war, one where you actually wear your country's insignia?

>>34540616
Russia has not fought a real war since WWII and by all accounts, russia sucks balls at actually fighting. You had to bribe the mafia in Chechnya to win, you suffered a military defeat in both Afghanistan and the first Chechen war, your elite pilots got their asses handed to them every single time they went up against a competent power and your land forces has never ventured beyond walking distance of the russian border.
The only thing russia ever managed to win was Georgia, a border skirmish in a friendly province and you still managed to lose a strategic bomber against an enemy without strategic air defenses.

>>34540674
> p-please r-russia, take the bait of our colored democracy rebolutions and go absolutely ham on the news with tanks squashing paid protestors
why would they do that?
and as far as wearing insignia goes, they're blowing up jihadis that the west pays for, no problem
in fact, after only a couple years of fucking around in syria, there's been way more awesome combat footage of mudshits getting bussed on, than there has been of the natocuck "war on terror", which is funny considering every goatfuck in the desert has a cellphone camera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2A7Y6p5DM4

Ukraine made a big mistake when they surrendered their nuclear weapons for a guarantee of territorial integrity.

>>34540650
>>Winter War
>>Korean War
>>Afghanistan
That was the Soviet Union. Russia is not the Soviet Union.
>>34540650
>>Georgian civil war
>>Abkhazia war
Defense of the independent states of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
>>34540650
>Tajikstani civil war
War against Islamic terrorism.
>>34540650
>Ukraine civil war
War to defend the independent states of Novorossiya.
>>34540651
Not an argument.
>>34540638
Except that never happened. You are just pulling stuff out of your ass. You have no evidence that the election was unfair. I could just as easily accuse Donald Trump of rigging his election.

>>34540638
Like the gays

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>>34540650
>Border protection
>War between the US and the USSR
>Read the reasons
>Protection of civilians.Finished immediately.
>Same
>Wut?
>Lol

>>34540419
This topic rises regularly. But always the question "Why?" They are not needed. In general, there is no reason why someone will ever want to attack them.

>>34540586
>Sweden and Finland are not NATO members, and Poland
All three has recently remembered that they have a violent subhuman neighbour in the east that they hate with passion and are all busy procuring advanced weapons. All three hate russia to the degree that they would gladly allow NATO access or assistance. Poland has one of the biggest land armies in Europe to boot.

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>>34540693
this really would be something, if some genetic trash cockholes not only got their hands on lands that have nothing to do with them, but had nukes as well
the butthurt-belt would die of jealousy, that would have been THE hook-up for LITERAL NOBODIES

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>>34540697
What about gays? It's not illegal to be gay in Russia.

This should be on pol but a recent example is the Philippines. The president is going to China because he doesn't like how the American NGO (the same ones that Russia banned) are telling him how to run his country.

>>34540692
Are you following a script, because what you said has nothing to do with Russian air power in europe?

>>34540709
>violent
Since when?

>>34540694
It may be "defense" for an "independent state" but it's still meddling in another countries' affairs. You can add the air campaign in Syria to that list too

>>34540506
>Russia doesn't want the Baltic states.
Then why did you make a thread talking about how Russia would do that exact thing? what happens if the Us chooses to go all out and retake the Baltics through use of military force? Congrats man, you just got yourself into a war with NATO, but unlike 1985 you have no way of stemming the tide of the reinforcements coming from America (who have way more combat experience than you).

>>34540720
Russia has plenty of airplanes, I assure you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOKJkjYMzN8

>>34540694
>Russia is not the Soviet Union
>this is what vatniks actually believe
The Soviet Union was made by russians, for russians as a way to have vassals and subjects that could be sent/worked to death for kremls benefit.

>>34540568
>from (((someone))) desperately trying to get whites to fight among each other,
Please explain what you mean by this? I don't understand why russian say this:
>poor russia is being hemmed in by evil nato
One week later:
>russia could take the baltics easy
Which one is it?

>>34540722
Have you ever been to russia?

Also the stunt in Georgia and Eastern Ukraine, funding and fighting shadow wars tend to make neighbours suspicious.

>>34540724
Only if you consider Abkhazia part of Georgia, which it is not. Imagine if Britain tried to take back America. If Russia helped defend America from Brits, would that be "interfering in Britain's affairs"?
>>34540725
>Then why did you make a thread talking about how Russia would do that exact thing?
I did not.
>>34540725
>what happens if the Us chooses to go all out and retake the Baltics through use of military force? Congrats man, you just got yourself into a war with NATO, but unlike 1985 you have no way of stemming the tide of the reinforcements coming from America (who have way more combat experience than you).
That's never going to happen.
>>34540733
That was generations ago. Russia is not the Soviet Union. Stop living in the past. Get over it.
>>34540742
And Russia no longer does that, which is why it is not even comparable to the Soviet Union.

>>34540755
>Have you ever been to russia?
Can't say I have, though I'd love to go. Are you referring to crime? I can assure you that every country has plenty of it, especially now that Europe is full of blacks and Muslims.
>>34540755
>Also the stunt in Georgia and Eastern Ukraine, funding and fighting shadow wars tend to make neighbours suspicious.
Defending two independent countries from Georgia is not a "stunt."

>>34540730
Vast majority of which are decrepit Soviet era rustbuckets.
Russia has only a handful of planes that can go up against the Euro triangles and none that can even remotely match the F-22 and F-35

>>34540750
> which one is it
Oh, it's definitely the poorshit baltics shouting around so people give them attention, meanwhile Russia would gain literally nothing from fucking with them, because they probably see these weaklings falling back into their sphere of influence anyways, they are political prostitutes after all.
Can't finance color revolutions with cookies forever, and I'm sure Russia can just wait until that day.
Until then, yes it IS actually people with "western" interests, decrying russian activities and talking about how "they'd" get destroyed by russia, because that sells news, guns. and favors.

>>34540767
>Muslims
Russia has more muslims than any European nation.

Also, funding civil wars and then invading when your hired thugs fail is not defending, it is invasion.

>>34540586
>They didn't. Crimeans rejoined Russia peacefully and voluntarily.
Not even, man. It was a total sham, Putin forbid any sort of international observers during the referendum. Also, Russia is having trouble providing basic services in Crimea, they're running out of water and Russia is too poor to pay for infrastructure.
>No, it's about two hours by truck. Not an insurmountable logistical problem for a country that manages to support a navy on the other side of Siberia.
A shitty Navy that would offer literal no resistance in the event of a real war, they might just stay in port it's so weak. Also, try crossing that nation when under constant ground and air attack from more numerous NATO countries, who have many more places they can displace to.
>Trucks can drive offroad just fine.
Until it gets ambushed, check out the Forrest Boys.
>Sweden and Finland are not NATO members, and Poland is too poor and selfish to be of much help to NATO.
Sweden and Finland are much more friendly with NATO than Russia, and Poland would jump into the fray if it meant killing Russians, you only have Kaliningrad, they have their entire country.

>>34540694
>War against Islamic terrorism.

>Implying thats not what most US wars since 1991 is to.

>War to defend the independent states of Novorossiya.

They don exist, so why defend them?

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>>34540711
No, but its pretty much impossible to live a normal life and be gay in Russia.

>>34540756
>And Russia no longer does that, which is why it is not even comparable to the Soviet Union
Russians take credit for every single achievement the Soviet Union ever made but cry bitch tears and claim that there is no connection whatsoever when loaded with the numerous crimes they did.
You don't get to pick and choose.

>>34540756
>I did not.
See>>34540419, unless you didn't make the thread.

>>34540730
Nowhere near enough to stem the tide of the US Air Force, that's something even your own military says they can't 1v1 and win.

>That's never going to happen.
Willing to bet the lives of the men in your deployed ground forces on that? We both know it will happen, and when it comes, Russia will be truly fucked hard, as its a war they cannot win. They had a difficult time supplying artillery units in Russia when they were firing on Ukraine.
>>34540774
>>34540774
Then how come russia always makes the "poor, oppressed russian" case every time something goes down there?
>they are political prostitutes after all.
If they are, they've done a great job fitting into NATO and the EU at large.

>>34540694

>That was the Soviet Union. Russia is not the Soviet Union.
So what your saying is the the USSR and modern day Russia have different machinations then? Then why are they throwing a shitfit about nations (the Baltic and Ukraine) that they fucked heavily with in the USSR era?
>>34540767
>especially now that Europe is full of blacks and Muslims.
You have the largest Muslim population in Europe, not to mention you had 2 internal wars based on Muslim extremists wanting independence.

>>34540786
>Russia has more muslims than any European nation.
Red herring. Russian were called "violent subhumans." I replied by insisting that crime and violence are found in Europe too, proving that Russians are no worse than any other nationality.
>>34540786
>Also, funding civil wars and then invading when your hired thugs fail is not defending, it is invasion.
>implying Abkhazia hasn't had a separate national identity from Georgia for hundreds of years.
>>34540795
>Putin forbid any sort of international observers during the referendum.
Citation needed.
>>34540795
>Also, Russia is having trouble providing basic services in Crimea, they're running out of water and Russia is too poor to pay for infrastructure.
Your point is? America's infrastructure is crumbling too because more than half of America's budget is spent on gibsmedat.
>>34540795
>A shitty Navy that would offer literal no resistance in the event of a real wa
Red herring. Irrelevant to the Baltic states.
>>34540795
>Also, try crossing that nation when under constant ground and air attack from more numerous NATO countries, who have many more places they can displace to.
Assuming all of NATO joins in, which is unlikely. Western Europe would rather spend that money on gibsmedats for Nigerians fleeing the brutal Syrian war in Nigeria.
>>34540795
>Sweden and Finland are much more friendly with NATO than Russia,
Doesn't mean they will do anything.
>>34540795
>Poland would jump into the fray if it meant killing Russians
Probably not. Polacks didn't help out the last time Europe invaded Russia.
>>34540796
>Implying thats not what most US wars since 1991 is to.
Like that time America bombed Serbia to help Muslims take Kosovo? Or like the time America overthrew regimes in Lybia, Iraq, and Egypt and handed those countries over to allahu akhbar screaming towelheads?
>>34540803
What does that even mean? Gays in Russia are not killed, unlike in Saudi Arabia (you know, America's biggest ally in the Middle East)

>>34540711
Really, chief?
https://www.rferl.org/a/chechnya-summary-executions-kadyrov-gazeta/28604204.html

Y'all niggas posting in a Vatnik thread.

>>34540888
>Show facts
>Gets called a Vatnik Thread.

>>34540805
>Russians take credit for every single achievement the Soviet Union ever made
I never said they should do that.
>>34540805
>claim that there is no connection whatsoever when loaded with the numerous crimes they did.
That was long in the past. Get over it. You are like a nigger who complains about slavery 200 years ago.
>>34540865
>See>>34540419 (OP), unless you didn't make the thread.
No, I did not make this stupid thread.
>>34540865
>your own military
I'm not Russian, if that's what you are implying.
>>34540865
>We both know it will happen
No, it won't. Not any time soon.
>>34540865
>If they are, they've done a great job fitting into NATO and the EU at large.
In the extremely unlikely event that there is a war between NATO and Russia, joining NATO will have been a terrible mistake for the Balts. Their countries will be ruined by the crossfire. They would be wise to stay neutral.
>>34540865
>So what your saying is the the USSR and modern day Russia have different machinations then?
Profoundly different, yes.
>>34540865
>Then why are they throwing a shitfit about nations (the Baltic and Ukraine) that they fucked heavily with in the USSR era?
They are not. They just don't like that fact that NATO, which was created to defend western Europe against a red threat that no longer exists, keeps creeping closer and closer to them. They want a buffer zone between Russia and Germany.
>>34540865
>You have the largest Muslim population in Europe, not to mention you had 2 internal wars based on Muslim extremists wanting independence.
1. I do not live in Russia.
2. At least Russia fights them instead of submitting meekly to dhimmitude.
>>34540882
>Assbackward shitskin Muslim minority hates gays
And you are suprised by this? Saying Russia is anti-gay because of the Chechen allahu akbars is like saying America is anti-gay because of Omar Mateen.

>>34540867
>Citation needed.
Sure. https://www.un.org/press/en/2014/sc11328.doc.htm
>Regarding human rights, he expressed regret that the Assistant Secretary-General and observers had been prevented from entering Crimea, while voicing concern over ethnic minorities, including the Tatars, who had started moving to other parts of Ukraine.
>Your point is? America's infrastructure is crumbling too because more than half of America's budget is spent on gibsmedat.
Well Russia hands out money to Chechnya so it doesn't revolt again, not to mention it also gives out government money to people people. Especially if they promise to have enough kids because the birthrate is so low.
>Red herring. Irrelevant to the Baltic states.
Not when the Pacific fleet is destroyed, and your East coast is totally at the Mercy of the US Navy, which would then split the available forces you could send West, most importantly aircraft.
>Assuming all of NATO joins in,
Which it has to if the nations declare article 5. Have fun trying to hit convoys bringing in heavy armor from the US completely unmolested.
>Nigerians fleeing the brutal Syrian war in Nigeria
Have fun paying ramzan kadyrov and Co. millions so he doesn't decide to try for three and start shit in Chechnya again.
>Doesn't mean they will do anything.
Willing to chance it?
>Polacks didn't help out the last time Europe invaded Russia
Because Russia allied themselves with Nazi Germany and invaded (after all the heavy fighting was over of course).

except baltics are utter shitholes with zero resources, industry and strategic value. they spent 25+ years dismantling and selling out everything inherited from the soviet union, to the point the place is a dying, indebted, barren wasteland with no demographic future.

russia's obvious priority in the next years is coningency in ukraine, hence 3 new brigades and tank division formed along the border. in the event ot nato incursion into kaliningrad russia will simply glass the corridor through lithuania with two squadrons of bm-30s, without even bothering to seize the rest of the country.

the only result nato and baltniggers achieve by this delusional russophobic fearmongering is divert attention from russian activities in the arctic, the most rapidly militarized region in the world

>>34540900
>Making shit up and posting Russian "News" are facts
Get fucked Ivan.

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>>34540429
>300 rubles have been deposited into your account Dmitry

>>34540932
Who's been posting Russian news?
>>34540929
>Sure. https://www.un.org/press/en/2014/sc11328.doc.htm
>UN moaning about muh human rights
The fact that the UN doesn't do a damn thing about real human rights abuses like the mass murder of whites in Zimbabwe proves that they have no credibility.
>>34540929
>Not when the Pacific fleet is destroyed, and your East coast is totally at the Mercy of the US Navy, which would then split the available forces you could send West, most importantly aircraft.
What the fuck are you talking about? Who the fuck is going to be invading oriental Siberia?
>>34540929
>Which it has to if the nations declare article 5.
You think they're going to honor that? When the SHTF, honoring treaties goes out the window.
>34540929
>Have fun paying ramzan kadyrov and Co. millions so he doesn't decide to try for three and start shit in Chechnya again.
Not really sure what your point is.
>>34540929
>Willing to chance it?
Russia has no desire for war to begin with, so no.
>>34540929
>Because Russia allied themselves with Nazi Germany and invaded (after all the heavy fighting was over of course).
Doesn't matter. Polacks were, unlike the rest of eastern Europe, against the Germans.
>>34540948
Not an argument.

>>34540926
>No, it won't. Not any time soon.
It won't happen because the Russian military would get BTFO as soon as they hit the border. They might take some territory, but once reinforcements come in....
>In the extremely unlikely event that there is a war between NATO and Russia, joining NATO will have been a terrible mistake for the Balts. Their countries will be ruined by the crossfire. They would be wise to stay neutral.
So they should just let themselves get taken over by someone they hate with a passion? What a great plan.
>They are not. They just don't like that fact that NATO, which was created to defend western Europe against a red threat that no longer exists, keeps creeping closer and closer to them. They want a buffer zone between Russia and Germany.
Tough shit then, those nations are free to pursue their own relations, even if it means coming into NATO. Maybe if Russia had acted a tad bit nicer we wouldn't be in this situation.

>2. At least Russia fights them instead of submitting meekly to dhimmitude.
They fought them twice and lost both times (as in they lost control of parts of their own territory) and only started "winning" when they started paying out the ass for some turbomanlet's MMA rings (razman kadyrov).
>>Assbackward shitskin Muslim minority hates gays
Not just them, boyo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_attitudes_toward_homosexuality#Russia

>>34540961
>The fact that the UN doesn't do a damn thing about real human rights abuses like the mass murder of whites in Zimbabwe proves that they have no credibility.
http://www.zw.one.un.org/ Also, there is African Union missions there to protect the farmers. Try to be less stupid, please.
>What the fuck are you talking about? Who the fuck is going to be invading oriental Siberia?
No one, but when the entire Far East Military gets completely and embarrassingly shattered, do you really think they won't divert forces? What about the Russians in the Black Sea, the Med, and Syria? They all get killed.
>You think they're going to honor that? When the SHTF, honoring treaties goes out the window.
Definitely not, all of NATO honored the treaty for 9/11 and if you think Germany, Spain and the Netherlands won't play ball if a fellow European nation is invaded after helping out in Afghanistan, you're an idiot. Because an invasion of the Baltics would effect them much more than 9/11 ever could.
>Russia has no desire for war to begin with, so no.
Sweet then we have nothing to worry about. Just atop making the worst possible decisions at the worst possible times.
>Doesn't matter. Polacks were, unlike the rest of eastern Europe, against the Germans.
Yeah, and do you know who was WITH the Germans? The Russians. Like I said, the Poles would be super eager to spill Russian blood if it came to war, they HATE Russia.

>>34540961
>The fact that the UN doesn't do a damn thing about real human rights abuses like the mass murder of whites in Zimbabwe proves that they have no credibility.
Also, I forgot to add, the UN is not allowed to work in Crimea, which makes it even harder for the people there as aid organizations can't come in and help rebuild after the sudden change of ownership. It's Russia basically using the Crimeans as political leverage to gain world sympathy that everybody sees through.

>a thread with a great opportunity to talk about defense in depth, the use of tactical nukes, the interface between federal governments (which may be attacked or completely destroyed) and military commanders is created
>some 0.0 cent poster comes in and shills for a country that he probably doesn't even live in, thus ruining it

>>34540967
>It won't happen because the Russian military would get BTFO as soon as they hit the border. They might take some territory, but once reinforcements come in....
So you admit that war is not going to happen. In that case, the question of who would hypothetically win it is a moot point.
>>34540967
>So they should just let themselves get taken over by someone they hate with a passion? What a great plan.
I don't think you understand what the word neutral means.
>>34540967
>Tough shit then, those nations are free to pursue their own relations, even if it means coming into NATO.
Except America promised NATO would expand "not one inch east."
>Maybe if Russia had acted a tad bit nicer we wouldn't be in this situation.
Again with the "we wuz so oppressed back then." It's just like when Jews milk the Holocaust for sympathy points and blacks do the same with slavery. Get over it already.

Also, maybe if they hadn't joined the German invaders, they never would have been in that situation.
>>34540967
>They fought them twice and lost both times (as in they lost control of parts of their own territory) and only started "winning" when they started paying out the ass for some turbomanlet's MMA rings (razman kadyrov).
Still better than kissing their asses nonstop and letting them rape your women.
>>34540967
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_attitudes_toward_homosexuality#Russia
"Attitudes"? That's all you've got? Aw, boo hoo! The mean old Russians have bad attitudes about my sexual fetish! It's like anudda shoah!

>>34540926
>In the extremely unlikely event that there is a war between NATO and Russia, joining NATO will have been a terrible mistake for the Balts.
Let's go for one more before i'm off to bed in Vegas.
In the extremely unlikely event that there is a war between NATO and Russia, making war on NATO will have been a terrible mistake, as the world (and Russia) would see just how shitty their military is to the laughter of everybody, everywhere (except Venezuela and Syria, wow what a coalition)

>>34541010
what in the fuck would the UN need to build in crimea?
nigger propaganda centrals?

>>34540867
>Russian were called "violent subhumans
Because they are, they have like twice the murder rate of the US, despite the US being filled to the brim with nigs and spics.

>>34540867
>implying Abkhazia hasn't had a separate national identity from Georgia for hundreds of years.
But russia got into an assblast because national identities wanted to leave russia.
Chechnya had every right to leave russia.

>>34540997
>http://www.zw.one.un.org/
I checked the link. Talks about AIDS and feeding starving niggers. Didn't see a damn thing about the mass murder of whites.
>>34540997
>Also, there is African Union missions there to protect the farmers. Try to be less stupid, please
What does that have to do with the UN's selective criticism of Russia and utter incredibility in the matter of human rights?
>>34540997
>but when the entire Far East Military gets completely and embarrassingly shattered
By whom?
>>34540997
>What about the Russians in the Black Sea, the Med, and Syria? They all get killed.
By whom?
>>34540997
>all of NATO honored the treaty for 9/11
Most of them didn't send more than a couple hundred men. France was so against helping America that burgers renamed their favorite snack to freedom fries.
>>34540997
>Sweet then we have nothing to worry about.
Exactly, but you keep making threads like this because you love to indulge in unrealistic fantasies.
>>34540997
>Just atop making the worst possible decisions at the worst possible times
Like what?
>>34540997
>Yeah, and do you know who was WITH the Germans? The Russians
Only for a short time. The Ukrainians actually became German units and slaughtered Polacks in Lviv with unspeakable brutality, but Polacks are not itching for a war with Ukraine.
>>34541010
>help rebuild
Rebuild what? Crimea was not destroyed when it changed hands.
>>34541010
>It's Russia basically using the Crimeans as political leverage to gain world sympathy that everybody sees through.
Since when has Russia asked for pity from anyone?
>>34541054
>most crime in America done by niggers and mestizos
>most crime in Russia done by Muslim shitskins and alcoholic Siberian tribesmen.
>>34541059
>Chechnya had every right to leave russia.
And the Confederacy had every right to leave America.

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>>34541059
> twice the US murder rate
post murder stats and incarceration stats
because from the looks of it, even when the russian police don't just magdump people on the street like they do in burgerland, your claim seems a bit dubious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odf6OemVVsc

>>34541015
>So you admit that war is not going to happen. In that case, the question of who would hypothetically win it is a moot point.
Not it isn't, NATO would win. Hands down.
>I don't think you understand what the word neutral means.
In your view you think they should just stand aside and let themselves be taken over despite being NATO countries.
>Except America promised NATO would expand "not one inch east."
No, there was never any agreements, Russian leaders confirmed this. Only one pro-socialist West German politicians said there was a very conversation about it that amounted to nothing anyways, that's all. Nothing more.
>Get over it already.
Sure, if you promise to give up your claism to Chechnya, the Baltics, Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.
>Also, maybe if they hadn't joined the German invaders, they never would have been in that situation.
They didn't join the invaders, what are you talking about? they got thrashed by both Germany and Russia during that war, only to fight with Russia in the hope that they might get their country back the way it was before the war. Stalin didn't want that to happen.
>Still better than kissing their asses nonstop and letting them rape your women.
That's literally what Russia did though. They were unable to win militarily (or do any military operations of ANY sort of competency) so they started paying the sons of the independence movement obscene amounts of money to not fight back. All of this happened within their own country BTW, how embarrassing.

At least the US can carry out complex operations on the other side of the planet.

>"Attitudes"? That's all you've got? Aw, boo hoo! The mean old Russians have bad attitudes about my sexual fetish! It's like anudda shoah!
Yes attitudes, you put up earlier in the thread how it wasn't illegal to be gay in Russia, and I've shown not only is it a literal death sentence in Chechnya, it's socially really bad to be outed as gay in nearly very part of the country.

>>34540926
>I never said they should do that
Fine, if russia is not to be held responsible for their crimes during the Soviet era, then we'll also agree upon that russia has added less ro modern civilization than t*rks, shitskins and niggers and should be stripped of every gold medal won before 91

>>34540931
The baltics, Estonia especially is much, MUCH better of than russia, as far as social development and wealth goes.

>>34541077
Nobody should be held responsible for what their distant ancestors did.

>>34541074
correction, they do magdump people on the street but in those cases the "people" are usually pislamist jihadis and they don't just get magdumped, they get a btr driven into their house after getting rpg'd 5 times
bit of a different story from the crackhead nigger exploits of america
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoOqtbsCAoo&t=186s

>>34541038
>nigger propaganda centrals?
Glad you contribute to the conversation, man. Your parents would be proud they raised such a fine specimen capable of intelligent thought.

>I checked the link. Talks about AIDS and feeding starving niggers. Didn't see a damn thing about the mass murder of whites.
http://genocidewatch.net/2013/03/19/genocide-alerts-zimbabwe/
They know it's happening, but for the most part they are leaving by themselves. It's fucked.

>By whom?
The US Navy

>By whom? pt 2
The Us Navy and US Air Force.

>Most of them didn't send more than a couple hundred men. France was so against helping America that burgers renamed their favorite snack to freedom fries.
They would send much more if the conflict was in Europe and threatening the EU directly. France didn't send men into Iraq, they sent a shit ton into Afghanistan where they more than pulled their weight. Not to mention North and Central Africa by themselves.
>Exactly, but you keep making threads like this because you love to indulge in unrealistic fantasies.
I didn't make it.
>Like what?
Crimea for one.
>Only for a short time.
Still Nazi allies.
>The Ukrainians actually became German units and slaughtered Polacks in Lviv with unspeakable brutality, but Polacks are not itching for a war with Ukraine.
yes, I know, but the Polish have a much worse history with Russia.
>Rebuild what? Crimea was not destroyed when it changed hands.
Well considering they promised to build shit and that everything would be better with Russia. They having trouble making a simple bridge.
>Since when has Russia asked for pity from anyone?
All the time, they play victims constantly like whiny babies.

>>34541074
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

>russia
>11.31

>USA
>4.8

And for comparison, On-Brink-of-Race-War Sweden
>1.15

Yeah, russia are a bunch of violent subhumans.

>>34541091
Except in the case of russia, you literary got a KGB stooge as a president and the Soviet republics where under russian occupation not even 30 years ago.

>>34540419
No, they can't. Germany's sending a Panzergrenadier battalion to Lithuania to defend there and other NATO countries are already following suit.

>>34541131
Not to mention battalions from other nations and a ABCT that is deployed independently of NATO, with the entirety of both US Forces, Europe and the rest of NATO to back them up in the event of war.

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>>34540419
>Flawless Plan
Literally worse than the one 100 years ago

>>34541120
You know, people are getting pretty tired of your bought UN studies? Never mind the fact, that it's somehow acceptable nowadays to argue with fucking wikipedia, but it's pretty much open knowledge that the UN is bought. Never mind the fucking drugs and crime committee, NOBODY in the world actually gives a fuck about drugs, meaning those clowns are only ever used politically.
In any case, you want to tell me a country with gems like Chicago has less murders than Russia. Ok
Not only have our unbiased UN goys been predicting for Russia to die out for the last 20 years, now they've got TWICE as much crime as the US. Where prisons are a business. I guess, you just assume everyone out there is retarded and will gobble up this bullshit of yours.
> been to atl, chicago, ny, miami, dallas
> been to moscow, st.pete, ekaterinburg, novorosiysk, smolensk
Take one fucking guess where I felt safer

>>34540586
>Poland is too poor and selfish to be of much help to NATO
120,000 active troops, spends $474,893,000,000,000 annually on defense which amounts to 2% of GDP (more than most NATO members as a percentage). And deployed with US to Afghanistan and was part of the initial Iraq invasion along with US and UK. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO. I would go as far as to say Poland is an integral supporter of NATO today.

Besides, the whole strength of NATO isn't with the size of the country or it's military, it is the very fact that it is an alliance. Article Five means Russian encroachment on Poland or the Baltics, regardless of how rapid an initial attack is, is met with the combined response of all NATO member states. Russia knows this and is deterrent enough to keep Russian troops out of the Baltics and from crossing any NATO borders.

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>>34541139
Who the fuck is gonna let you deploy anything, your shit's been cruise missile'd already
Did you think this was one of your wars on terror or sumtink?

>>34541147
>m-muh fake news! Goys! Jews!
>Chicago
>cherrypicking
Also, russia has a lot of weight to throw in the UN and they have yet to protest or present different figures.
Face it, russians are fucking niggers.

>>34541117
>They know it's happening, but for the most part they are leaving by themselves. It's fucked.
Everyone knows it has been happening since the 70s, but the UN doesn't do a damn thing about it because the UN doesn't care about human rights. Criticism of Russia is always selective.
>>34541117
>The US Navy
Would never happen. One thing about navies (and air forces) is that they are fucking expensive. America's budget is already strained to the max paying for gibsmedat. Funding a war would require cutting funds from gibsmedat, which would be political suicide for any American politician hoping for reelection.
>>34541117
>North and Central Africa by themselves
Frogs do that for their own interests, not for America.
>>34541117
>Well considering they promised to build shit
Citation needed.
>>34541117
>All the time, they play victims constantly like whiny babies.
When?
>>34541117
>Crimea for one.
Accepting Crimea was not a bad decision for Russia. It is an important naval outpost for them.
>>34541120
That crime is not done by Russians. It's done by Muslims and alcoholic Eskimos in Russia.
>>34541128
>KGB stooge as a president
How is that any different from America having a CIA president, the first Bush?
>>34541131
Too bad Germany can't even defend it's own fucking cities from niggers and Muslims.
>>34541158
>And deployed with US to Afghanistan and was part of the initial Iraq invasion along with US and UK
Of all the Polack jokes I've ever heard, this is the funniest. You realize they only sent a token force as a way of kissing burger asses, right?
>>34541158
>Russia knows this and is deterrent enough to keep Russian troops out of the Baltics and from crossing any NATO borders
You can't deter them from something they already have no interest in doing.

>>34541169
>Face it, russians are fucking niggers.
No, churki are fucking niggers.

Also, Russia doesn't care about your figures.

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>>34541159
> AYO HOL UP!
> WHATCHU MEAN WE CAN'T JUST SNEAK IN A COUPLE APACHES AGAINST 60S ERA RADAR, HELLFIRE THEM, THEN SPAM TOMAHOWKZ TO WIN THE "WAR"?!!
> SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE *blown up by ASM*

>>34541173
>Russia doesn't care about your figures
Russians don't care about anything else than getting more alcohol, a hit of krokodil and defending russias honor online and if there is any time left in the day, trying to make their neighbours more miserable than they are.

Had russia not been such massive vermin, there would have been no ground for NATO expansion. If recall mid 2000s after the Iraq war, Europe was kind of fed up with NATO and the US. Then russia started chimping out again and people remembered why they wanted NATO all of a sudden.

Russia could invade but how long could they HOLD whatever territory they grabbed? Once NATO and the US get into war mode Russia could be pushed back to Moscow.

>Russian army paper tiger compared to the peak USSR days.
>Everything still is in place for REFORGER convoys to support NATO.
>The Russian navy is a joke.
>Russia would have no allies.

>>34541159
>Who the fuck is gonna let you deploy anything, your shit's been cruise missile'd already
Yes, because they're already deployed and on the ground there.
>Everyone knows it has been happening since the 70s, but the UN doesn't do a damn thing about it because the UN doesn't care about human rights. Criticism of Russia is always selective.
The UN is a international forum, not a regulatory body. It understands that these things are going on in Zimbabwe (and South Africa to an extent) but it cannot do anything with massive military and political backing, in the mean time they only thing it can do is give aid (which Mugabe has now forbidden) and advocate for people from zones directly across the borders ans through embassies of other nations. Get that through your thick skull.
>Frogs do that for their own interests, not for America.
Defeating terrorism is in every bodies interest, the US actually supported those operations militarily. Come on man, if your going to debate on the internet, have your facts straight.
>Would never happen.
So your big plan on taking the Baltics and not having the US wreck your military is that the US doesn't have enough money for war? That's it? That's your brilliant plan? If the US can't afford it the russians must be even worse off as they don't even have money to buy active fire and forget missiles for their planes (or even have a running Northern fleet capable of putting to sea).
>When?
This thread, for one.
>It is an important naval outpost for them.
Which they could have negotiated with the Ukrainian government for, instead of having sanctions put on them.
>You can't deter them from something they already have no interest in doing.
Then why not give up all claims to the Baltic states and declare those Russian outside of the Russian sphere of influence then?
>which would be political suicide
Going to war with the US would be suicide for both Russian politicians and quite literal suicide for the Russian military

>>34541226
without massive military and political backing*

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>>34541208
everything exactly like kennan said

>>34541208
>anything else than getting more alcohol, a hit of krokodil
>implying America hasn't had three consecutive generations of recreational drug users and several whole genres of music that serve as free advertising for drug culture
>>34541208
>defending russias honor online
What's wrong with that?
>>34541208
>trying to make their neighbours more miserable than they are.
That doesn't happen.>>34541208
>Had russia not been such massive vermin, there would have been no ground for NATO expansion. If recall mid 2000s after the Iraq war, Europe was kind of fed up with NATO and the US. Then russia started chimping out again and people remembered why they wanted NATO all of a sudden.
What chimping out? When? Where? How?
>>34541226
>The UN is a international forum, not a regulatory body. It understands that these things are going on in Zimbabwe (and South Africa to an extent) but it cannot do anything with massive military and political backing, in the mean time they only thing it can do is give aid (which Mugabe has now forbidden) and advocate for people from zones directly across the borders ans through embassies of other nations. Get that through your thick skull.
The UN's very existence is an affront against the idea of national sovereignty.
>>34541226
>Defeating terrorism is in every bodies interest,
I agree. That's why the USA should be in alliance with Russia.
>>34541226
>big plan on taking the Baltics
That plan does not exist and never has. It is nothing but a paranoid fantasy on your part.
>>34541226
>Which they could have negotiated with the Ukrainian government for, instead of having sanctions put on them.
They already had a naval base there, but Ukrainians were doing things like not allowing Crimeans to see movies in Russian. That annoyed them.
>>34541226
>Then why not give up all claims to the Baltic states and declare those Russian outside of the Russian sphere of influence then?
Russia already gave up all claims to the Baltic states in 1991.

>>34541226
>Going to war with the US would be suicide for both Russian politicians and quite literal suicide for the Russian military
What's your point? You seem to be in need of constant self-reassurance of America's military strength. The fact that you can't shut up about it makes you sound very insecure.

>>34540645

because ameriturds are triggered that Russia is actually a good guy and not US

>>34540684

What are you on, mate? Only drug addict could write that up

>>34540931

Lithuanianfag here, I can confirm that. The government turned this country into 3rd world country and there is nothing more left to sell. I already ditched my country for based England

>>34541325
how is Estonia?

I doubt Russia can take the Baltics without mobilisation

There's the tripwire force.

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_136388.htm?selectedLocale=en
http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2017_05/1705-factsheet-efp.pdf

Then the response, with the most high readiness component force numbering 5,000.

http://www.shape.nato.int/nato-response-force--very-high-readiness-joint-task-force

That is just the NATO specific forces, there are national forces. Most significantly the 82nd Airborne, who are supposed to be able to get in the air in 18 hours from notification, though the British 16 Air Assault Brigade, and French 11e Brigade Parachutiste are respectable in this role as well.

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>>34541337
Whenever Baltics are being discussed I can't even tell serious posts from sarcastic ones anymore.

>>34540419
>putler can take on 3 states with almost no army and no air force with only a squadron-worth of multinationl 4th gen boltbuckets for air policing
So... this is... the power of... the russian armed forces... whoa.
Teh bear is back bois, fo' sho'.

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>>34540429

>>34541337
>get in the air in 18 hours
So ~12 after the Russians have reached the coast?

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>>34541337
>I doubt Russia can take the Baltics without mobilisation

>>34540419
Citation needed, nigger. Post proof or fuck off.

>>34541574
>putler
Found a cockhole. Off to iichan with you.

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>>34540419

>Even NATO commanders admit Moscow could basically blitz their way through the Baltics and dig in long before Western Europe or the US 6th Fleet/EUCOM can react, and this is assuming America responds at all.

Yes and after this genius move it would find itself at war with pic related.
How do you think that would end for Russia?

>>34541336

idk, probably doing better, I guess, but we`re still niggers of Europe anyway

>>34541651

Except Russia is one state and NATO is a fragile coalition of multiple countries, some of which are shilling for Russia

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>>34541651
>NATO will start a war with a nuclear power over Baltic shitholes
If by "NATO" you mean UN and by "war" you mean being deeply concerned, then yes, NATO will start a war.

>>34540419
Russia could invade us tomorrow, that's why we need 848 billion dollars every month to protect ourselves.

>>34541681
>Implying Russia will ever try and call that bluff

Starting a nuclear war literally means the end of the world, even if it was only a 10% chance that they would start a nuclear war by invading Latvia, it's too fucking risky

There's literally no point to even discussing conventional troops anymore

>>34540419
honestly Europe would be better off under putin than merkel

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>>34540429
God I hate you Russian kike faggots with a weird sort of passion. I think I'll jack off and cum buckets when Russian economy collapses a third time in 100 years.

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>>34541651
>How do you think that would end for Russia?
With a swift success, considering that only US, UK and France have actual armies, and only handful of members bother about alliance enough to meet their minimal monetary obligations. Russia maintains the ability to launch a sudden strike for limited territorial gain and establish a fait accompli before NATO decision-makers convened to agree on what had transpired and how to respond. When was the last time NATO commanders conducted a combined arms exercises of comparable magnitudes? The speed in which Russia mobilizes its military operations is far more dangerous than their size.

>>34541283
Is the truth you poor fag.

>>34541013
>0.0 cent

top kek

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>>34540419
Russia is too poor and about to collapse and fragment to afford a European invasion. Plus they'd get fucked up in the end anyways by counter attacks.

>>34541734
>>34541785
top bantz, maybe it'll console you when you'll be burning alive under thermobaric barrage

>>34541695
>nuclear war literally means the end of the world
Lol, no.
>they would start a nuclear war by invading Latvia
That's the point, no one would risk a nuclear war to protect fucking Balts.

>>34541750

>Russia maintains the ability to launch a sudden strike for limited territorial gain and establish a fait accompli before NATO decision-makers convened to agree on what had transpired and how to respond.

This is utterly delusional. Thank god the people in the Kremlin aren't as delusional as you.

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Butthurt belt exists only to get annihilated in an hour, no matter what happens.
A bunch of cum gurgling slaves of slavs think they are anything but a line on a map.

now post nazi pictures to make you feel better

>>34541907
He's talking hypothetical, dumbo. Only brainwashed westerners and mad balts seriously think Russia is about to invade balt shitholes.

>>34541857
>Lol, no.

It would take a relatively small number of nukes to produce a firestorm that would completely block out the sun for decades. If you think humanity is going to survive that, good fucking luck.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2013EF000205/abstract;jsessionid=988B0F672CDB8340293D7C586FF75143.f02t02

Realise the example nukes in this study are a very tiny 15kt and we're still looking at a growing season up to 40 days shorter for 5 years. That alone would be catastrophic, but in a nuclear exchange between Russia and the US wer are looking at nuclear yields orders of magnitude higher.

>That's the point, no one would risk a nuclear war to protect fucking Balts.
And no one would risk a nuclear war to attack them either.

>>34541750
>When was the last time NATO commanders conducted a combined arms exercises of comparable magnitudes?
US, UK and France are currently conducting several overseas operations, they have decent returns on experience from that.
And you don't need to mobilize whole divisions at a time to test your command structures.

>>34541408
>>34541598
>>34541614

Do you seriously think that there will be no warning of invasion until 0 hour? That NATO forces in the Baltics will fold faster than the Georgians did in 2008? That Russian IADS will be enough to stop NATO air-power savaging advancing Russian forces without having to expand the war with a conventional first strike outside the Baltics?

>>34541946
All I see is a bunch of obsolete models based on false assumptions and predictions skewed to push anti-nuclear agenda, quite usual for the apologetics of the "nuclear winter" make-believe.
>And no one would risk a nuclear war to attack them either.
Russia won't attack then because they are useless and steamroll them if NATO was to attack. But if for some reason Russia was to attack them, no one in the entire world would care to protect them.

>>34541750
NATO did execute a flawless military victory in Iraq in both gulf wars, a project over a million man strong.
That is way, way above any puny """exercise""" russia ever managed.

>All I see is a bunch of obsolete models based on false assumptions and predictions

Nice armchair scientist we have here, post those degrees friend

>>34542068
Why do you want to take that from them?
What else are they supposed to do?

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>>34542059

>But if for some reason Russia was to attack them, no one in the entire world would care to protect them.

One has to be clinically insane to believe that NATO would do nothing while a member state is being invaded.
The Baltics are militarily untouchable for Russia, deal with it.

>>34542061

NATO wasn't involved in these wars.

>>34542013
>Do you seriously think that there will be no warning of invasion until 0 hour?
Why would there be one?
>That NATO forces in the Baltics will fold faster than the Georgians did in 2008?
Easily, since with or without NATO, there's only that much military in the Baltics to last for some hours. Georgian military was much more capable than the entire Baltic states and the tiny bits Americans have there will ever be.
>That Russian IADS will be enough
Easily.
>to stop NATO air-power
What air power? Polish MiGs? German Typhoons that are barely immediately combat ready?
>savaging advancing Russian forces
"Advancing" as in it takes one step from the border to the Baltic shore and half-a-step if you consider they have Kaliningrad up their asses.

>>34542092
One has to be clinically insane to consider ANYONE would protect the Balts.
>while a member state is being invaded
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Goa

>>34541248
>implying America hasn't had three consecutive generations of recreational drug users and several whole genres of music that serve as free advertising for drug culture
The thing us that the US culture can handle recreational use.
Russia has had severe alcohol and drug abuse to the degree that an entire generation is more or less lost and rampand needle usage and unprotected homosex has given russia an africa-tier AIDS epidemic.

>defending russian honor
The problem is that there is nothing to defend, you find more dignity and honor in a single Bulgarian whorehouse than in all of russia.

>>34542134
t.hohol zarobitchanka working in a Bulgarian whorehouse

>>34542125
Overseas colonies are not protected under article 5.
Meanwhile, not defending the Baltics would spell the end for NATO, which is why russians would want to invade.

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>>34540419
While that is true it could be done rapidly before any reactions could be made by most regional or world powers, it would prompt a very scary escalation and likely lead to limited use of nuclear weapons.

>>34542157
You know you really struck a nerve when vatniks spew slurs in their own subhuman tongue at you.

>>34542104
>Why would there be one?
Because the baltics are very keen on keeping an eye on russian military buildup and NATO satellites has been able to track russian troop movement since the cold war.
Russia would need weeks of mobilization and buildup, NATO would be on the case in 48h.

>>34541147
>Open knowledge that the UN is bought

Wait what? Since when has there been any person or organisation with the cash to "buy" the heads of 193 seperate independent sovereign nations? What the actual fuck are you talking about?

>>34540456
>drag Ukraine back into Russian orbit,
I don't particularly care for russia, but NATO/EU was the aggressor for this one.

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>>34542104
>That Russian IADS will be enough
Only to stop the baltic air force.
Once the US doles out the B-2s and MALDs the shit out russian IADS, it is all over for bitchboy putin.
Pic related, these beauties will make vatnik radar operators cry rage tears.

>>34542240
>I don't particularly care for russia
But you gobbled their propaganda cock, that's for sure.
Ukies has every right to choose their own alignment, too bad for russia that they suck at diplomacy.

>>34541972
>US, UK and France are currently conducting several overseas operations,
COIN operations. Yes, NATO has plenty experience bombing dunecoons with small arms.
>And you don't need to mobilize whole divisions at a time to test your command structures.
You need to mobilize entire branches. When you conduct an exercise, you opt to involve as many branches and services as you can. You increase the scale, magnitude and complexity of task for HQ and officers; You test combat readiness, build forces cohesion and ramp up operational mobility; you force a great mass of people to work together effectively.

From this standpoint, NATO exercises look kinda underwhelming. A paratrooper company jumps out in Romania. A tank battalion drives down asphalt road in Poland. A marine regiment freezes their toes in Norway. Those are PR shows, with more journalists than troops, having to do more with politics than warfighting. "Demonstrate our resolve" and "reassure our allies". Is NATO leadership so arrogant to believe in their absolute technical superiority? Or so complacent they don't believe in conventional wars between nuclear powers? India and Pakistan prove otherwise.

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>>34540419
>Even NATO commanders admit Moscow could basically blitz their way through the Baltics and dig in

This is just a deranged fantasy among the Neo-Con Russian-hating dinosaurs who should be in diapers at a long term care facility.

Russia has no plans or goals to occupy the Baltics.

Their aim is simply to restore their own sovereignty, re-build their own industry and re-take what was lost under the drunken, corrupt darling of the West - Yeltsin.

>>34540419
>Even NATO commanders admit Moscow could basically blitz their way through the Baltics and dig in long before Western Europe or the US 6th Fleet/EUCOM can react
So?
Russia takes Tallin, then the US takes Moscow

>>34540429
/pol/cuck detected

muh russia

>>34542276
>re-take what was lost under the drunken, corrupt darling of the West - Yeltsin.
And what was lost that needs to be retaken?
Yeltsin was a hero for what he did.

>>34542262
Still, remember the gulf wars and the Libyan intervention.
NATO and NATO aligned nations can thanks to these exercises pit together forces and operations russia could only dream about.

>>34541797
You won't do shit Nigga. Trump will tomacuck putin again and again and again and putin will just sit and take it like the little manlet shorty bitch she is.

>>34541946
>It would take a relatively small number of nukes to produce a firestorm that would completely block out the sun for decades. If you think humanity is going to survive that, good fucking luck.

1) It is not clear, and the model does not address, the effects of modern building codes on the sustained ignition from thermal effects.
2) The model runs in question make the assumption that most targets would be urban areas.
3) The model makes the assumption that each warhead would be aimed at a separate target. In reality, this is unlikely.
4) The model makes the assumption that all of the weapons HOB is optimized for thermal effects.

If the entire experiment started with flawed assumptions, how can you have any faith in the answers?

>>34542262
Oh yeah, because logistic chains and operating procedures can't be tested in a low-intensity conflict...

Anon, do you really think that Cpl. Bumfuck gives a fuck whether he's involved in an exercise with 10.000 or 100.000 people? Do you really think that using lone jeeps with a radio instead of real companies changes the way army group headquarters train?

When you train with a lot of guys and someone fucks up in his corner, it doesn't "force a great mass of people to work together effectively" (and besides, that's what the chain of command is here for). It just ensures that everybody else does nothing worthwhile while the faulty operator is getting corrected.

Also
>Implying russian exercises aren't PR shows.

>>34542013
Yes. But it's not going to happen any time soon because there's nothing to gain from it at the moment..

>>34542100
But NATO forces where, using NATO equipment, NATO training, NATO doctrine, NATO bases and NATO command structure.
If you are old enough you'll remember how the first gulf war scared the snot of of Soviet russia and the chinks, as it proved how NATO could effortlessly steamroll russian export equipment, rendering russias carefully constructed buffer states nothing more than a speed bump.

>>34541147
But Russia did collapse just 20 ish years ago. Russia has 2 years tops until they collapse again. Enjoy your Internet while it lasts you poor faggot. The Internet will finally know peace after you vatnik faggots.

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>>34541931

>>34542104
>Georgian military was much more capable than the entire Baltic states

oh shit nigger what the literal fuck are you talking about.

>>34541667
t. Ivanas Propakenkas

>>34542104
Are you high on drugs? Only someone high on krokodil could spew something like this.

>>34541158
>And deployed with US to Afghanistan
Easier to say who not deployed there.

Hey vatniks, you've already lost. You're adopting western culture and tech everyday, imitating us, speaking western language, American English in your own Russian homes! Top tier sad! You're on our cyber turf speaking in English trying to convince us you're a threat. Fucking embarrassing.

>>34542354
>Implying russian exercises aren't PR shows
This

Russian exercises are little more than glorified propaganda shoots.
Remember this one, an alleged naval landing exercise.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TzQrikXPUdw

Features important tactics such as
>CAS and CAP flying low and slow along the contested beach dropping flares
>parking ships within ATGM distance from land
>dropping bombs among the friendly fleet
>MLRS and AA fire towards nothing
>soldiers doing their best Johnny Rambo impression
When anons started pointing out that it was less of an exercise and more a propaganda shoot, vatniks displayed seldom seen levels of buttrage and stage 4 amounts of "stupid hohol nazis stop bully poor poor rossiya".

>>34540419

This is something the Baltic states have accepted and why a militia movement is key to survival in those countries. They will be annexed, but whether or not Russia can pacify the insurgencies in those countries while maintaining a larger war with NATO is a larger question in the event of a Russian invasion of Europe.

>>34542461
>You're adopting western culture and tech everyday
Since 1700s.

>>34542461
>>34542461
Maybe that was the "flawless plan" op was talking about TOP KEKKK. Russians are retarded.

>>34540694
>Defense of the independent states of South Ossetia and Abkhazia
>War to defend the independent states of Novorossiya

Why is it that in Russia it's criminal to even propose separation of any part of the country, but on the other hand Russia always supports separatist (sorry, "independence") movements of its neighbors, often to the point of direct military intervention?

>>34542382
Russia is the worlds leading exporter of state level butthurt.
It was glorious when the russian MoD got into an hour long rage speech on national tv and twitter flame war with Bellincat, a fucking blogger.
Another great example was when a Swedish comedy group poked fun at russia during Eurovision.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VbM9v84Np3A

Russia got so butthurt that kreml demanded an official apology from Sweden and had their ambassador go on Swedish television and rage for a bit.
If Sweden was that thin skinned they would have to double their embassy staff and work double shifts in Finland alone.

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>>34542550
It is covered under "shadow exports" among other things. Picture related.

>>34542541
>Why is it that in Russia it's criminal to even propose separation of any part of the country
As a bonus on the hypocrisy scale, the law you are refering to was passed in Russia month before the ukraine conflict started, which makes it look like they planed for fiddling with ukraine a long time before.

>>34540711

While it is not as such illegal to be gay in Russia, Putin's administration has made being openly gay in Russia extremely dangerous by basically legalizing discrimination and gay-bashing.

How it works:
There are Russian violent hate-groups who are actively hunting gay people. Their favorite propaganda method is dissolving the difference between gay people and pedophiles - basically they seem to claim that all gay are pedophiles. Once they find their target (single gay person lured into suitable place) they usually humiliate (for videos spread in internet), normally beat and occasionally kill their target.

Russian cops have another role in this. When it comes to violent hate-groups, the cops look the other way and do normally not interfere with their actions. Their another role is to beat the crap out, arrest and throw to jail any people who try to protest against this. Needless to say gay pride parades are not allowed.

Putin's regime played its part in this by providing police the legislation that allows them to crush any protests for this in year 2013.

And some cases recorded over the years:
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/02/07/the-25-most-shocking-anti-gay-stories-from-russia-so-far/

Info about the particular law:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_gay_propaganda_law

Anyway, this is all old news. The newer thing is that the Russian authorities have now started targeting also religious communities with Jehova's Witnesses being the first well known community in their cross hairs:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/06/01/persecution-jehovahs-witnesses-russia-intensifies/102390226/

>>34542679
>basically they seem to claim that all gay are pedophiles

Phil probably has a honorary membership.

>>34541248
Ok, back and ready for more.
>The UN's very existence is an affront against the idea of national sovereignty.
Sweet, then give up your seat the the Un and withdraw from every UN commitment you have then. See how long you last.
>I agree. That's why the USA should be in alliance with Russia.
No, that would be an awful idea. They have no real ability when it comes to military stuff. They would honestly just be a hindrance.
>That plan does not exist and never has. It is nothing but a paranoid fantasy on your part.
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-military-drills-defeat-nato-forces-608382
Keep in mind that Russia's exercises are much larger than NATO's by literally 200 thousand sometimes.
If these scenarios have never existed why does the Russian gov push the "baltics are weak" narrative so much? https://sputniknews.com/us/201602041034185557-us-nato-baltic-hypothetical-defeat/
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201509071026701017-nato-unable-to-defend-baltics/
>but Ukrainians were doing things like not allowing Crimeans to see movies in Russian. That annoyed them.
So their response is to invade and start a massive war that killed thousands of people on both sides? Because of dubbed movies? What a bunch of whiny babies.
>Russia already gave up all claims to the Baltic states in 1991.
Are you sure about that?
http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-reviews-baltic-states-independence-2015-6
https://www.foundationmaxvanderstoel.nl/nieuws/nieuws_item/t/russia_investigates_legitimacy_of_baltic_states_independence
>>34541259
>What's your point?
Actually the opposite, the strength it provides means i'm very secure.
>>34541337
>who are supposed to be able to get in the air in 18 hours
No the lead unit can be fully deployed within 18 hours anywhere in the world.

>>34541674
>fragile coalition of multiple countries
Not really, they came with use to AFG. Of course they would respond to a Russian invasion of the Balts, it's much closer and has the chance to involve them directly.
>only handful of members bother about alliance enough to meet their minimal monetary obligations
And what if you're wrong? What if NATO decides to launch a massive counter attack to take the Balts back? Congrats, you now have no way of stopping the reinforcement coming from the US because it's not 1985.
>Why would there be one?
You can't mobilize and army without people knowing.
>Easily, since with or without NATO
Not even, they have top rate militaries that would fight tooth and nail, because they'd rather not have russia back.
>Easily.
An IADS has never stopped and air campaign from gaining control of the skies.
>What air power?
The RAF, Italian F-35s, US F-15E and Cs from England, US aircraft carriers.
>>34542125
That doesn't apply because it's not in Europe. The same way an invasion of Alaska or Hawaii would not trigger Article 5.

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>>34542847
>an invasion of Alaska would not trigger Article 5
Brb plotting.

>>34540638
Kim's elections are more real than any U.S. election in recent history.

>>34541674
>NATO is a fragile coalition of multiple countries

You'd have a point with that one if it didn't include the US.

>>34542262
>COIN operations. Yes, NATO has plenty experience bombing dunecoons with small arms.
Thats exactly what Russia is doing right now though. Any they're really not that good at it. Meanwhile the US has been running Cold War tier exercises with NATO.
>You need to mobilize entire branches.
That's something the US military excels at.
>From this standpoint, NATO
The reason those NATO excercises are much smaller is because they focus on specific tasks. Be it logistical, airborne or combined arms operations. It makes no sense to stand a massive 250k man forces for poorly thought out exercises that cost lots of money and exists only to keep the "Russia stronk" narrative.

>>34542679
This, I feel really bad for LGBT people in Russia. It's a bad place to be.

>>34542474

>>CAS and CAP flying low and slow along the contested beach dropping flares
cas and cap planes performing cas and cap, truly unprecedented
>>parking ships within ATGM distance from land
are you coming from a landlocked country? you do know what the landing ship is?
>>dropping bombs among the friendly fleet
are you familiar with the concept of wargame at all? you do realize the assaulting fleet is not "friendly"?
>>MLRS and AA fire towards nothing
except a nominal opponent in the said exercise?

evidently this "firearms "board is more preoccupied with gay rights in russia than nato staggering incompetence at organizing a sizeable exercise at simple beach assault
>Impressive and Powerful NATO Exercice in Poland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uwGqn2HeI8
>The Final Stage Of The Russian Military Exercises 'Caucasus 2016'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCxECydjIJc

>>34542922
spotted the kike

>>34542474
I wonder if the blanks they're firing have less powder than 7N6/7N22 ?

>>34542474
>firing 2 round bursts while clearly seeming to aim at nothing

Point of impact shift must be ridiculous doing that. I bet they don't have targets set up to shoot at.

>>34540772
>Russia has only a handful of planes that can go up against the Euro triangles
"a handful" as in close to 500 aircraft

>>34543098
>evidently this "firearms "board is more preoccupied with gay rights in russia than nato staggering incompetence at organizing a sizeable exercise at simple beach assault

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcKhVh2LOso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndavTz7vzR4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex1p6opSvA4

Here's a video showing offshore ASW work far away from shore, something that Russian cannot do effectively.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqyQqXQmln4

>>The Final Stage Of The Russian Military Exercises 'Caucasus 2016'
When would the Russian ever be able to pull off an amphib landing without being completely wrecked by the US Navy?

>>34543159
>"a handful" as in close to 500 aircraft
That's not that many, especially when you consider not all can be used at once because of defensive postures elsewhere and because they have serves maintenance issues.

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>>34543165
Why, Russia doesn't seek invading US coast. On the flip side, the US attempt at mounting amphibious attack in Crimea would conclude in utter annihilation of the attacking task force and the entire muhreen corps lying anally prolapsed and curbstomped on the sunny Yevpatoria beach.

>>34542162
So since Baltics are essentially unitedstatian overseas colonies they are not protected either.
>>34542176
Don't act too upset, zarobitchanka, your have a Bulgarian to service. This is not even a slur and this is your tongue. Or wait a minute, are you willing to admit there is not such thing as "Ukrainian language" and you all speak just polonised bastardisation of Russian?
>>34542195
Keeping an eye as in whining about 3,5 fighters passing by on their way to Kaliningrad.
>NATO satellites has been able to track russian troop movement since the cold war
And yet no troops crossing Russian-Ukrainian border were spotted. Ironic, isn't it? Spare me of your jingoistic bullshit, please.
>>34542251
Amerishit confuses IADS for SA-3s and his MIC's overpriced anti-towelhead toys for actual weapons again, kek.

>>34543332
You, I and all of us know that Russian cuck troops were spotted crossing into Ukraine by various ways. Russia is weak face it. Usa is magnitudes better than Russian life. .hell even Romanian life is better than Russian life. Vatnik forces couldn't take on nato. Stop shilling for Russia and maybe move to amuch nicer and richer western country. With guns and free speech like the usa.

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>>34543258
The US wouldn't even attempt such an invasion without first having made sure that the Russian air force simply didn't exist any longer, and then having bombed any ground forces to oblivion. At that point the marines wouldn't face any more opposition than they did in Desert Storm.

>>34541208
BULLSHIT.

Russia APPLIED to join NATO.

>>34543098
>cas and cap planes performing cas and cap,
If russia does cap and cas by flying low and slow along a contested beach, then they could not even take on Somalia, let alone any NATO member.
>you do know what the landing ship is?
Something you keep from harms way and launch landing crafts from.
Nlt that it matters the dumbfuck russians had regular warships within ATGM range too.

This was not an exercise this was a poorly disguised propaganda show.

>>34543159
>500 aircraft
The key words where "can go up against Euro triangles"
Old decrepit Su-27s are not included in this number, nor is the baseline Su-30s, old MiG-29s and so on.

>>34543546
>cuck

You just discredited yourself with that.

Post disregarded.

>>34543258
Wel', good think were not talking about those coasts. We're talking about the Baltics, which is what your video showed, which is a region the Russian are way outmatched in terms of fighting ability.
>mounting amphibious attack in Crimea
They wouldn't they would almost certainly enter by land, as it suites them better, (not to mention the massive US army support and NATO aircraft flying from bases in Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania and Ukraine.)
>overseas colonies they are not protected either.
Are you willing to risk a ground war with the US over that assumption?
>And yet no troops crossing Russian-Ukrainian border
Yes they were, not only that but track to certain bases. If you anted to launch a general attack along NATO's eastern border, you could not hide that many troops.
>Amerishit confuses IADS for SA-3s and his MIC's overpriced anti-towelhead toys for actual weapons again, kek.
At least we HAVE an Military-industrial complex. How are those Armata nor T-50 orders coming my dude?
>anti-towelhead toys
Isn't that the exact thing Russia is doing in Syria right this very second. They're fighting the last war while NATO trains to fight a state actor.

>>34540742
that's not how politics works, the Soviet Union is just as much Kazakh and Ukie as it is Russian

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>>34543332
Lel, this vatnik got really triggered by the whorehouse burn :^)
You mostly find russian whores in eastern European whorehouses in any case, russians are a race of cheap whoresons.

>>34540419
>and this is assuming America responds at all.
...kinda like the response iraq received after the invasion of kuwait?

>>34543332
The Baltics joined NATO of their own free will to keep their independence from russians.
I don't know why this fact trigger vatnicucks so much.

>>34543822
>which is a region the Russian are way outmatched in terms of fighting ability.
In the event of NATO/Russian naval war in the Baltic or Black sea the allied navies will be collectively clenching their assholes wondering if they're gonna get torpedoed, cruise missiles or run into a sea laid mine at any moment. Stop using hard drugs and seek help my nigger.

>>34543332
>IADS for SA-3s
Sa-3, S-400, matters little when the screens get swamped by hundreds of identical targets and radars explode as dozens of SDBs start flying in at each target.

>>34543923
In the event of a Russia/NATO war that doesn't have nukes, the NATO navy doesn't really even need to enter the baltic or black sea.

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>>34540429
>Northern Asia
>Central Asia
>Eastern Europe
>Caucasus
>not to mention communist world revolution was just a front for Soviet imperialism for decades

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>>34540429

Yeah and then NATO gains air superiority in two weeks and beats them back to moscow in another month

Dont even bother with the S400 meme

>>34543923
>NATO/Russian naval war in the Baltic or Black
Not even, they have quantitatively and qualitatively inferior forces in both regions. Hell, all NATO would need to do would be to block access to the Med and bottle up the black sea fleets, which conducting airstrikes on them in port and at sea. The Baltic Sea is even worse, as the Baltic Sea is surrounded by NATO friendly nations. How many subs does Russia have in the baltic fleet? Not very many, and that number gets real small real quick if you factor in US, British and French subs. Not to mention MPA from nearly every nation there.
>cruise missiles
Good luck hitting every NATO base in the region.

>sea laid mine
I hope you're not planning on breaking out of the Baltics then....

>>34543992
They don't even need to go to Moscow, just ruin their economy (what little they have) and force them to the table.

>>34543923
>russian subs
>not noisy as fuck targets only useful for being stalked and sunk by superior western subs

>baltics
>not a graveyard for russian tubs as NATO carriers site safely off the western coast of Denmark and Sweden while AShM launchers hidden inlands sink every vatnik boat that shows up from Kaliningrad.

>>34543159
>"a handful" as in close to 500 aircraft

Let me guess, you also count the mothballed (i.e. rusting in outdoor motor pools) early T-72 and T-80 death traps towards service ready armor.

>>34543992
Found a balt.

>>34540506
>>34540522
>>34540544
>>34540557
>>34540560
>>34540586
>>34540593
>>34540605
>>34540638
>>34540795
>>34540867
>>34540929
>>34541010
>>34541038
>>34541071
>>34541076
>>34541117
>>34541170
>>34541248
>>34542773
>>34543258
>>34543822
Crimea is rightful Russian clay.

>>34544106
>22 quotes
Crimea sure is rightful Russian clay, but you are fucking cancer.

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>>34544136
Some things need to be said.

>>34543826
>implying various -stan, ukies, Georgians and balts had any say in kreml

>>34543826
>the EU isn't French/German
>the UK isn't English
>NATO isn't the United States

>>34540742
No nation on the entire fucking planet suffered more from communism than the Russian one, retard.
>>34544200
SU was literally ruled by a Georgian dictator followed by a bunch of Ukrainian dictators.

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>>34543949
Waiting to get slaughtered by Kh-55s and Kh-101s off the Bosphorus and Denmark while the Northern fleet wipes out every NATO naval facility in Northern Europe and Kalibers pound the ever living shit out of German and Italian airbases within the first hours of active hostilities. That is assuming NATO fleets had been given a chance at military build-up instead of being nuked preemptively. Fine by me.

>>34544257

Which is why Russian's have an overall positive opinion of Stalin, but an outright loathing of Gorbachev who brought an end to the USSR?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/15/positive-views-of-stalin-among-russians-reach-16-year-high-poll-shows/

>>34542847
>That doesn't apply because it's not in Europe. The same way an invasion of Alaska or Hawaii would not trigger Article 5.
Article Five covers north america and europe.

Hint, the New York is in North America, not europe.

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>>34544452
No, that's because brainwashed old farts still don't realise how fucked up it was.

>>34544257
>No nation on the entire fucking planet suffered more from communism than the Russian one
Yeah, russia has always been unable to build society and choosing a broken type of ideology only because it served as a useful front to use in oppression only made things worse.

>>34544484
>the SU was not to russias benefit because they received the least amount of gibsmedat
>The EU is not to Germanys benefit since they receive the least amount of gibsmedat

>>34544373
Nuking invites the US to launch a first strike using their new super fuses. GG russia.

Not using nukes leads to untold russian dying a watery grave as no sub of russia can leave the GIUK gap unmolested and russian subs are noisy, easily tracked tubs in any case.

Also, there is no way russia has even close to the required amount of cruise missiles to seriously dent NATO deployment and the response salvo would absolutely cripple russia.
And as Syria recently showed us, russian IADS is completely unable to stop a NATO cruise missile strike.

>>34540931
Estonia is god-tier, kys vanja

>>34540419
Oh look another vatnik thread. You got tired of /pol/ and decided to shill on other boards now?

>>34544484

Except Stalin has increased in popularity since the end of the USSR. The Putin administration has made an effort to rehabilitate him.

>>34540616
C'mon man. You can't shill this hard in reality. Russia hasn't fought an actual land or sea war in the last 70 years, while America has been killing mudslimes for the last 30 without an end in site.

Russia JUST got in to the game in the Middle East in the last 5 years with actual OTG AOps.

>>34544373
>Waiting to get slaughtered by Kh-55s and Kh-101s
So spamming subsonic anti-ship missiles is your big plan? Against a NATO IADS designed at countering just that (which interestingly enough includes Russian SAM systems). The Black sea Fleet would be destroyed if it ever atmepted to break out of the Black Sea or didn't sortie before hostilities, which given how many ships Russia has would be a suicide mission which would give a massive PR boost to NATO.
>Denmark straights
Russia getting control of the Denmark straights is not going to happen, you'd be in range of literal tank guns at that point.
>Northern fleet wipes out
North Fleet going against the 2 Carriers that have almost certainly been vectored into position before the outbreak of hostilities? Not likely, to say nothing of the dozens of SSNs the US has.

>Kalibers pound the ever living shit out of German and Italian airbases within the first hours of active hostilities.
The same thing happens with your bases and tomahawks (which we have significantly more of). Not to mention precision guided bombing at night and day. Even if you do take out every German and Italian Airbase (not possible) NATO still has hundreds of potential airbases to fly from (thanks to the roadways of Europe that are designed to take aircraft in a war time situation. good luck hitting every highway interchange in a country.

>That is assuming NATO fleets had been given a chance at military build-up instead of being nuked preemptively. Fine by me.
Then nobody wins.
NATO would curbstomp Russia. answer me this: How would russian stem the tide of reinforcements coming from the USA, (air bridge or sea convoys)? How would it protect it's assets that are unsupported (in the Med? Syria?)

>>34544513
>Compares EU and SU
American "education".
>>34544633
Putin making 4th July tier jingoistic show out of Soviet symbolism doesn't change the fact that Russians suffered from communism the most.

>>34542484
exactly.

I can't believe Russians are considered European actually. They're more of a white-skinned Northwest Asian barbarian tribe that adopted European culture as late as the 18th century.

Nice little LARP thread you bottom feeders have going here.

What is it about Russia that makes you Shartniks so hilariously ass-frustrated?

>>34544692
>Russians suffered from communism the most.

well they should for being the first to adopt it and spreading the cancer worldwide. you have nobody to blame but yourselves.

>>34544583
>US to launch a first strike
Instant annihilation of western civilization. Hope that gay rights oppression in Russia was worth it.
>Also, there is no way russia has even close to the required amount of cruise missiles to seriously dent NATO
Why do you have such an intense deathwish? Russians missiles are simply newer. Kh-101 is a stealth air-based missile with range of 5500km, you can drop it over North pole and hit British islands. Iskander is a ground based supersonic missile with maneuvering warhead. Russians are pretty confident about their capabilities, because NATO does not have designated missile hunters with long-range missiles like MiG-31 against cruise missiles and US build defence can not intercept fucking Scads in Yemen, and Iskander is much better, so they sure that ballistic missiles will hit their targets too.
From NATO side there is Tomahawks. They are kinda outdated. Soviets and Russians build defence and prepared countermeasures against this for decades. From OTH radars and Mig-31 to special jammers and Pantsir point-defence system.
>And as Syria recently showed us, russian IADS is completely unable to stop a NATO cruise missile strike.
There was no IADS in Syria. Do you know the meaning of the term?

>>34540419
>and dig in
This is where your wet dream completely leaves reality behind.

They might attempt to "dig in" but it would do very, very little good. Fighting a large scale defense war these days is a recipe for getting your armed forces turned into very well processed sausage.

>>34544373
That's all the subs russia has active? Sad.

NATO has more cruise missiles than Russia has SAMs. I'm sure you can put 2 and 2 together.

>>34544651
>NATO IADS
Pfffhahaha. Back to your cuckshed cletus. Your post is meaningless to read past this oxymoron

>>34542315
>Yeltsin was a hero for what he did.

Yeah, we know the Jews of the West love him because he gave away state assets and entire industries for pennies on the dollar, and his reign had the effects on Russia that are comparable to a 5-year war.

Yeah, no wonder (((you))) love Yeltsin so much.

>>34544760
>NATO ships
>not being locked up tighter than a nuns panties

pls

>>34544757
>NATO has more cruise missiles than Russia has SAMs.
You sure are one dense idiot.

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>>34544760
>completely ignores the rest of the post and uses ad hominem
vatnik intelligence

>>34544784
yeah

Russia has proven that it's SAM systems are incapable of stopping low flying cruise missiles as well. The few cruise missile launch sites that Russia does have would be spammed within hours of any war.

>>34544760
>>NATO IADS
You do realize that it's more than just SAMs right? That's what the "integrated" part means. It compromises both Air Forces (which is significantly superior to Russia's) and AEW aircraft (of which Russia has like, what 10 max?) Meanwhile NATO has over 15 E-3s itself, many of which are undergoing upgrades. That's not counting the ones control by nations.

>>34544763
>(((you)))
>Jews of the West
Anti-Semistism, right on time. Can't it also be your country is just really stupid with stupid leaders.
>>34544757

>>34543735
This never, ever happened. The only time Russia even joked about joining NATO is when Gorbechov got cheeky in the mid-90s. They were never serious about joining and never even initiated the process to explore joining.

I believe the quote, back in 2009, which explains this was, "Great powers do not join coalitions. Great powers lead coalitions. Russia considers itself a Great Power (kek)." And that attitude brings us to today, with Russia heavily sanctioned, her economy bleeding out and her military starting at NATO's combined might and wondering what the fuck went wrong.

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>>34540429

>>34544824
>It compromises both Air Forces (which is significantly superior to Russia's) and AEW aircraft
It's kind of a detriment when a few craters in the runway are sufficient to take out your carefully planned and sophisticated """IADS""" pfahahah

>>34544373
I always love how this graphic never includes even a nod to the US sub forces at Groton, Norfolk or King's Bay. They may not be based in Europe, but they sure do rack up a lot of post cards there (well, except the boomers maybe).

>>34544831
The crazy thing is too, NATO was on the verge of standing down so many Eastern border maneuvers, exercises and policing duties because of the lack of Russian aggression (not even that to be honest, lack of any movement apart from regular training, which caused no alarms). Fast forward a few years, NATO is now rearming with the goal of stopping Russia and their advances. The Russians stumbled in this mess themselves and now blame everybody else.

>>34544850
Russia's cruise missile range is fairly short. What is the max range missile? 2.5k kilometers? That's not long enough to be a real threat.

>>34544850
Did you not read my other post, BOTH Cold War years NATO and Warsaw Pact planned to moved aircraft out to dispersed airfields to prevent this very thing from happening. NATO now has twice as many airfields to choose from when deciding where to base their planes while the Russian have significantly less. Not only that but there is no way Russia has enough munitions to take all major bases out one you factor in the fact that surprise will eventually be lost and warrant a more aware NATO and the ability to shoot those munitions down.
We haven't even got to talking about long range bombers and aircraft carriers too.

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>>34544911
Oh I fully agree. Having a chokehold on the entire Europe is not quite good enough hehehe

>>34544938
Not enough range to cover airbases in spain, iceland, greenland and NA. So essentially worthless. Especially when you realize that Russia only has a handful of 2500 kilometer ranged Kalibrs.

Not enough to threaten awacs or slow down NATO airforces.

>>34544888
When your entire country is run and backed by a cabal of kleptomaniacal oligarchs, long term planning and a serious reckoning of consequences will never be a strong point.

They literally looked around, said, "NATO went home! Time for to rebuild glorious Soviet empire!" and then stared around, baffled when this didn't go well.

>>34544911
>>34544850
Not only that, but Russia has always had issues with the firing platforms for those weapons. No one fires standoff missiles at maximum range as it takes time to get there and therefor reduces their effectiveness. IIRC the missiles carried by Bears and Blackjacks have a range of over 250 miles, but the radars in the plans themselves max out about around 75 miles, meaning they can't even use their range advantage. This reduction in effectiveness increases exponentially if you're firing at a mobile target, like a carrier. So you fired from 500 miles away? In the hour it takes them to get to the last known position of the carrier, it's sailed far away and doesn't even need to fire off any of it's missiles.

>>34540429
This is actually high quality bait, look at dem yous

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>>34540429

>>34544961
>When your entire country is run and backed by a cabal of kleptomaniacal oligarchs, long term planning and a serious reckoning of consequences will never be a strong point.
every russian government ever

>>34544938
No one fires at maximum range against defended targets, as they would be detected and shot down. Missiles that are fired at those targets are fired and follow a terrain following flight profile, which significantly limits their range. Missiles don't fly in a "as the crow flys" flight path, they weave in and out of mountains and fly at treetop level.

>>34540608
Ukraine's government is on the verge of another coup. The parliament is already looking into impeachment even though the laws don't allow for it.

And Trump is actually willing to negotiate and deal with the Ukraine situation. If Russia and America can figure it out and solve both Ukraine and Syria, the sanctions will be ended, so right off the bat Trump's got leverage on the negotiating table.

>>34542679
>Their favorite propaganda method is dissolving the difference between gay people and pedophiles

That's not far off the truth.

>>34540429
hahahahahahahahaha

>>34544373
how come russia's the only country with the submarine tower thingy at the back instead of the middle or front?

>>34542276
>Russia has no plans or goals to occupy the Baltics.
>Their aim is simply to restore their own sovereignty, ... re-take what was lost

That's exactly the sort of nebular buzzwords you can hide anything behind.
Good thing Russia is too much of a paper tiger to do more than harass meme countries and make token contributions in Syria.

>>34545058
>Russia and America can figure it out and solve both Ukraine
There is no "solving" Ukraine, Russia needs to leave. That's why everything that has happened up to this point, happened.

>>34545127
Russia would go to a nuclear war before leaving crimea

Too important for their national sovereignty and defense. Perhaps the US should instead remove the puppets their coup installed?

>>34542276
do Russians need more lebensraum?

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>>34540429

>>34545172
Wouldn't we have to have a coup and puppets first?

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>>34544936
>dude we can launch kamikaze raids from overcrowded highways! you got that right, fro, fucking roads! totally feasible, im sure i read it somewhere! who needs airfields, fuel and maintenance anyway lol
>>34544954
>dude we can wage air war in eurasia from iceland lmao. FLAWLESS PLAN amirite

autism approaching hoering airlift in stalingrad. this is what american public education and two decades of war on terror does to your brain. how many pilots and aircraft are you willing to spend for nothing because russians are being mean to gays?

>>34544740
>Instant annihilation of western civilization.
Except the new super fuses on the nuclear submarines makes a first strike viable for the US, being able to neutralize all russian land based silos in one go.

>Russians missiles are simply newer
Except NATO has Storm Shadow, JASSM-ER and other modern true stealth weapons. Russia has never ever shown itself able to do true stealth so all this about russian stealth weapons is most likely hot air.
Then there is the question of numbers, russian economy is shit-tier, you probably have a dozen or so of these new missiles, rest is useless slavshit.

>>34544763
Yeltsin took russia for a far softer landing than it deserved.
And again, what is there to "reclaim" that Yeltsin gave away?
The thieves who stole all things valuable are now in charge, putin and his crooks. If you mean dignity, russia never had any.

>>34545209
Reminder that the AEGIS is far more powerful than any air defenses russia ever got, European nations are also buying Aster and MAMBA as well as IRIS-T point defenses.
Russia would ned an order of magnitude more missiles than it got to make a dent in NATOs ability to wage air war.

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>>34545324
>Reminder that the AEGIS is far more powerful
Yes, but how does it fare against Philippine cargo boats? I've heard rumours.

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>>34545346
Better than the very best of russian recon ships ever could.

>>34545346
>hurrdurr
I bet you think that an F-117 being shot down means that stealth doesn't work

>>34542125
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Goa
No shit Sherlock.
At the time the US wanted the end of former colonial empires more than anything. They prevented the brits and french from using Marshall Plan funded materiel during the Suez crisis, and that was a conflict between their beloved Israel and a soviet-backed Egypt; they weren't gonna help Portugal fight against India at the other end of the world.
Mainland Europe and asian colonies are two very different things.

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>>34540650
>Tajikistan civil war
I bet that at least 90% of those who say about this even cant find Tajikistan on map, and as haf-tajik i can say that everyone who think that Russia shouldn't help tajik goverment just stupid dumbass who think that state created by terrorists better than modern tajik state.

>>34540655
> russian government literally pays people to defend it over the internet
I want this work, where i can take my money?

>>34545376
Well, it didn't prevent the F-117 from being shot down.

And they stopped flying so many F-117 sorties.

And they phased out the F-117 not too many years later...

>>34545539
Not really a shitposter but friend of mine does some borderline shitposting for coverment. Its mainly linked to online outlets and such he said at his firm nobody works on forums. Alltough i have heard that there are cyber warfare units in russian army but im pretty sure they do more important stuff than shitpost on 4chan.

>>34545587
Then they built the F-22, F-35, kept using the B-2, Russia designed the T-50 while China designed the J-20 and so on.

Lets see how far out of subject we can get.

>>34545172
>Russia and America can figure it out and solve both Ukraine
Enjoy those long term sanctions then.
>>dude we can launch kamikaze raids from overcrowded highways! you got that right, fro, fucking roads! totally feasible, im sure i read it somewhere! who needs airfields, fuel and maintenance anyway lol
No one is aying anything about kamikaze raids. that was the entire point of AirLand battle, distributed lethality that allowed aircraft to rearm close to the forward edge of the battlespace, drop their bombs and rearm again. Why do you think the RAF had so many Harriers in Germany at only one base, while there were over 15 that could take them but were not occupied by aircraft? Because in the event of a war, aircraft were to be dispersed out to these bases to lessen the chance of a decisive strike on a squadron. The Soviets did this too, look at how the Su-25 and Mig-29 were constructed. they can land and takeoff on semi-paved roads and runways, like many NATO planes.
>>dude we can wage air war in eurasia from iceland lmao. FLAWLESS PLAN amirite
Well you're certainly not going to be flying your aircraft out that far. can the Russians even have sustained operations in the Norwegian Sea?

>how many pilots and aircraft are you willing to spend for nothing because russians are being mean to gays?
how many Russian ground soldiers and pilots are you willing to risk that the US doesn't come to Europe in-force to liberate the Baltics.

>Well, it didn't prevent the F-117 from being shot down.
Losing one plane over a 30 years life span where it threw into the most heavily defended areas is pretty good, much better than the Russians had (or even currently have).
>And they phased out the F-117 not too many years later...
About 8 years later because better planes were coming online, the F-22 and F-35 are over one generation ahead when it comes to stealth coating.
fun fact: Russia could not bomb at night or in bad weather during the 2008 Russian-Georgian war.

>>34540555
NATO is nuclear level escalation. Of course they don't light the world up, because some shitty Country larps as NATO or as Russian protectorat like Syria.
>>34540557
Russia and poland, but also Franc hold huge parts of Germany and yet nobody is doing anything about it. Who is claims to the land is only interesting for the propaganda, it's about who is actualy able to rule it.
>>34540586
>peacefully and voluntarily.
After russia froces showed up and made others leave.
>Kiev proves that they do not have any desire to do so.
True, but also they can't efford it for ecconomic reasons, since NATO would start serious Support then.
>independent state of Abkhazia.
Wrong again, this was just a rational.
>Sweden and Finland are not NATO members, and Poland is too poor and selfish to be of a help
Sweden and Finnland are well connected to NATO defense plans. But Poland has mostly crapy equipment, like 70 percent of the russian Equipment is crap.
>>34540605
Suprise, surprise no Empire gives a damn about international. For Russia and the US it's mostly just for signaling about being virtus and getting their Population to Support them.
>>34540608
Georgia isn't into the direction of hearthland Europe, were NATO should keep Russia out hence no involvement of NATO there.
>>34540693
True, you can Never Trust an Empire.

>>34543159
>close to 500 aircraft

Russia doesn't even have 300 air-to-air capable aircraft that don't date back to the Soviet era. None of them are even fitted with an AESA either, which is a hint to the rest of the capabilities (not turn rates, range and speed, but electronics, sensors and so on).

At most you could consider the Su-35 to still be a match because reasons, in what case you're at less than 60 aircraft, which is a handful in that context.

>>34540730
Russian air froce is crap, what NATO fears are the Areal denial Systems (Iskander, S-300 uprgades, S-400 especially if the rocket with 400km Range actualy is deployed and the russian nuclear triade).
>>34540742
Wrong most of the leadership were of the tribe.
>>34540750
Russia could steamrole 50-80 km into NATO Territory only to get steamroled back 100 km back into their own Territory some weeks later.
>>34540756
>russia is not the UdSSR
True to an extend a decent amount of higher ups in the russian Leadership wants to change that.
>>34540772
F-35 is likly worth 1.2-1.4 Su-27 of the Pilots are equaly trained and both aren't supported from the ground but both have air Born early warning planes guiding them.
>>34540786
True, many forget or don't even know this.