Why do militaries and police use shotguns? In what situation

Breeching. Riot control. Able to use various exotic ammo that would otherwise not cycle an action.

they are more multi purpose
you can shot pellets, slugs, rubber, beanbags or taser
stop, kill people or open doors with special ammo
all you have to do is change the ammo
I wouldn't say it's better, but it offers much more possibilities

>>34527165
>>34527113
Does each squad get one shotgun in the US Army?

>>34527113
>>34527165
Regarding breeching/opening doors, do you mean using the shotgun to shoot anyone who may be behind the door after opening the door, or do you mean literally opening the door with the shotgun, like blasting a hole in the door or blasting it off its hinges?

>>34527181
Assaulting squads yes.

>>34527224
You generally shoot the lock or blow the hinges off

>>34527181
I'm not able to tell you stuff about the US Army

>>34527224
Blasting the door lock usually. I'm pretty sure blind firing into the room is against operational procedures, since you might hit an innocent person.

>>34527251
Does the military even follow operational procedures?

>>34527077
Copfag here. Typically we have a couple riflemen and one shotgun per squad, and almost every patrol car has an 870 but it only has stunbag shells. The stunbag guns are very useful in theory, I've never actually seen one used nor have I heard of it actually working.

Shotguns are used for both neutralization and breaching, if under exigency a patrol squad needs to breach (typically we'll provide containment on a barricaded suspect until our SWAT monkeys show up).

Rifles are coveted and difficult to get. We don't have many left in the armory because we're broke, but shotguns are plentiful because no one wants them. For a rifle you have to shoot a near perfect score with your handgun and pass a rigorous course, then qualify 4 times a year on your own time. You don't get paid for the qualification course or quarterlies, and you don't get more for being a rifleman. Given I'm already beat to shit after working 50+ hours a week I'm not interested in getting stuck on a scene for more hours because I'm the only rifleman.

I disagree with AKs as a patrol weapon, and I'm a massive AKfag who owns 3 guns in 7.62x39 and not a single AR or gun in .223/5.56. It's a good round for law enforcement because it's a pussy round that doesn't "overpenetrate." That's why I dislike it for my purposes (I want a good hunting round and SHTF round that will punch trough whatever) but I agree with it for LE purposes. It's less likely to go through walls... which is why our department lost rifles as a standard issue in the first place. Someone didn't check their backdrop and shot trough a house and killed or paralyzed a kid.

>>34527113
>>34527224
>>34527236
>>34527251
This is probably a dumb question but hopefully someone can tell me why its dumb.

Wrt the military, why do they use use shotguns and have to deal with the logistics chain of a whole new system (and sometimes carry an entire other weapon) instead of using a 40mm grenade designed for the same purpose?

They've had buckshot 40mm before, presumably you could build a frangible 40mm for breaching.

>>34527583
40mm grenades are big. youd need to carry 2 of em for each door nobody wants to carry specialized breaching only rounds instead of real grenades.

>>34527224

They use special breaching rounds to blow hinges and locks apart.

>>34527583

You can't fire a 40mm grenade at a door hinge that's an arm's length away.

>>34527664
Its more for logistics than it is for the individual soldier. They're already stocking 40mm UGLs why have an additional weapon?

And I've seen photos of soldiers carrying SB shotguns for breaching, wouldn't it make more sense to use a UGL than to carry an entirely different weapon hanging off a sling.

A underslung shotgun like the Masterkey or the M26 MASS makes more sense but again, why stock a separate weapon when you already have UGLs, why wait the 8 years it took to fully field the M26 and why carry the shotgun for only one situation when you could be carrying a UGL instead?

Is there some doctrinal issue I'm not getting?

>>34527849
Not a grenade, a shell. Like the M576 buckshot cartridge from Vietnam.

>>34529782
because carrying grenades for breaching and regular grenades would take up as much space and weight as a sbs and some breaching shells. you can also shoot both hinges faster with a shotgun than a 203

>>34529782
You can throw a variety of shotgun shells on a truck with all sorts of other ammo and not have much of an issue. 40mm rounds on the other hand you'll have both size and compatibility issues. Nevermind the 40mm has a higher price per round, and requires more training time which is further costs.

And you can use that shotgun while clearing the room. Not so much a 40mm.

>>34530024
>because carrying grenades for breaching and regular grenades would take up as much space and weight as a sbs and some breaching shells.
If they're carrying regular grenades, they'd be carrying a UGL anyway so its only the weight of the breaching grenades vs the SBS+Ammo.
A 40mm grenade only weighs about 1/2 lb vs the 3lb for a M26, so in that case they're coming out ahead weight wise.

In the case that they aren't already carrying a UGL, then you do lose out a bit (203 weighs about the same as a M26 but the ammo is heavier) but theres still the logistical advantages/

>you can also shoot both hinges faster with a shotgun than a 203
This part makes sense though. I had a look at some of the videos of breaching training before I posted and they would either take one shot at the lock or have two people breaching hinges but presumably thats training for the ideal situation.

>>34530059
> compatibility issues
With what? It'd be compatible with everything else that uses Low-Velocity Grenades, which is everything thats not crew served. High Velocity Grenades are physically larger and wouldn't be confused either.

>Nevermind the 40mm has a higher price per round, and requires more training time which is further costs.
You save money by not having to buy, stock and train for an entirely new weapon. You already have 40mm UGLs in service.

>And you can use that shotgun while clearing the room. Not so much a 40mm.
They don't seem to use the shotguns to clear the rooms anyway. Most of the info I could find the guy doing the breaching gets clear while the rest move in, or he uses the carbine that the underslung shotgun is mounted to.

They're replacing the M500 with the M26, and you don't want to use a bolt action shotgun to clear a room, even if it is straight pull.

>>34530059
>And you can use that shotgun while clearing the room. Not so much a 40mm.
I beg to differ.

>>34527077
Versatility and cost is my impression.

There are also a couple of strengths. Shotguns much more likely to stop (and kill) a threat. Slugs are also better at punching through heavy glass.