Been playing BF1 and honestly enjoying the array of old guns

File: 45598297-C33F-46F2-B0FD-468EB7B58DD2-4156-000003E4AB7B2DA7.jpg (35KB, 417x325px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 417x325px

>>34496696
SUMMER

>>34496696
Because it is too complex and expensive.

>>34496696
I really wouldn't change much. Many countries were just beginning to understand rifles, ergonomics and functionality. Many countries did experiment a lot with self-loading rifles/guns but when it came to an actual war economy they needed something cheap, effective and something easy to produce. Many such rifles were bolt action purely because of their simplicity. The Enfield paved the way for over 100 years of effective rifles and rifle mechanics that are still used today.

DESU it wasn't really the guns that were the issue, it was battletactics. If you remember there was a story in BF1 where some country threw over 100,000 soldiers at some fortress, took it after over a month of tribulation then lost it a week later. If many countries didn't simply throw soldiers away to die they would have done much better.

File: hqdefault.jpg (21KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 480x360px

>>34496696

get the fuck out

>>34496722
>>34496760
>>34496773
Did not read the OP, the post(s)

>>34496769
Yeah, battletactics were a huge problem. That's why I'm presupposing, in my OP, that the correct battletactics (elite breakthrough infantry working in concert with combined arms) has already been guessed at, and now that same hypothetically advanced-tactics force must equip the soldiers. What already-extant gun(s) do they go for?

>>34496696
>Been playing BF1

fuck off you piece of shit

File: 350px-Mars01.jpg (17KB, 350x228px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 350x228px

>>34496903
listen you sad fucking cunt. there are some tight guns in that game and we are gonna talk about them.

You don't have to talk a single goddamn thing about the game; it's completely contextual to the thread, which is about identifying the most advanced, useful fighting weapons available to armies circa 1910-1918.

Pull your panties out of your asscrack, untwist them, put down your purse, get your fucking tits calm, and then return to this thread with some baller gun pics, or shut the fuck up.

File: 1355003587397.jpg (30KB, 1200x412px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 1200x412px

and this is an auto 8 with an extended mag. The FBI used such a weapon and honestly probably was one of the best possible choices for police work, even if not really suited to the trenches.

>>34496696

During the War of Northern Aggression the new rifles were well adapt at taking lives at long distances but nobody bothered to update tactics, except for Confederates having to fight with guerilla tactics due to less manpower. Yankee cocksucker dead at 1000 yards thanks to righteous soldier of God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sedgwick

File: IMG_0399.jpg (322KB, 1588x582px) Image search: [Google]

322KB, 1588x582px

you know it was a weird time for weapons because the italians actually came up with some good ideas first - the SMG, for example.

>>34496696

Winchester 1907 would work pretty well as well.

.351 WSL in a 10 round mag.

>>34497001
Some regiments were quick to take advantage of superior firepower offered by repeating rifles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/66th_Illinois_Volunteer_Infantry_Regiment)

Not to mention superior economics, politics, manpower, and ethos, you degenerate.

File: 986c3e4ca820f21547068ea5ba81e8f7.jpg (9KB, 700x112px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 700x112px

>>34497018
it's in the game as well. probably would have been awesome; even had a bayo lug apparently? I'm not sure about the provenance of this image.

>>34496769
That's only true to an extent. Countries like Mexico (lel) and Russia experimented with self loading rifles before the war, but circumstances prevented their widespread use.
In Mexico's case, their Mondragon rifles were manufactured by SIG. When the war broke out, these rifles were commandeered by the German Air Force to be used until machine guns could be mounted on aircraft.
France ended up as the only user of self loading rifles in large numbers. The RSC 1917 and 1918, Meuneir rifle, and Winchester 1907 were all used at the section level to provide fire support

File: Chauchat.jpg (512KB, 2240x1000px) Image search: [Google]

512KB, 2240x1000px

Also apparently this piece of hot french shit was actually pretty good in the cartridge the frogs chambered it for? Had been reading that the American reports of its shittiness were down to us rechambering them in a smaller calibre, which wreaked havoc on the feeding system?

>>34497082
So they actually used the Win 1907? How'd they get it and how'd it do?

File: IMG_20160510_181638625.jpg (1MB, 2592x1456px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2592x1456px

>>34497049

Don't know about the Bayonet Lug. My 1905 (same shit but chambered in a weaker cartridge) lacks one.

I will say this. thing is clean, very little for anything to snag on. Biggest issue is going beyond a field strip of splitting the top and bottom. If you want to remove the bolt getting it back in is a pain because of how stiff the recoil spring is. These are straight blowback rifles and as such the bolt mass is amazing.

The guy who thought he was making a straight blow back .308 is insane considering what my bolt weighs and it fires a cartridge with about the same power as .38 special.

Also while we're at it this goddamn assault rifle was "available" as early as 1915, chambered in 6.5mm japanese.

One thing I've always really wanted to know was whether the Russians had the tactics to go along with this gun.

File: pervyj_russkij_avtomat_2.jpg (174KB, 1280x748px) Image search: [Google]

174KB, 1280x748px

>>34497116
derp'd the pic

>>34497086
Americans ordered a bunch in 30-06 that were not built properly

>>34497096
The 1907 was ordered by most of the Entente powers to give to pilots during the early war, much like Germany and the Mondragon. The French however, modified their weapons to fire automatically and issued them with extended magazines, like in BF1.
I can't find out much about their combat use, but I'd assume it wasn't well received due to the large bulk of the weapon with the extended mag, as well as the reported uncontrollable automatic fire

>>34496696
They already had the perfect storm trooper gun, the trench shotgun.

>>34497161
>ywn jump into a picket trench with a field-modified 1907 extended mag firing uncontrollably into a charging mass of cudgel-wielding huns.

why even live?

>>34497161

As I stated before, the things bolt has enough mass to make up for lack of recoil from the cartridge. Try holding something still when it has a two pound bolt flying back and forth.

File: shaturnal camel gunner.jpg (68KB, 800x504px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 800x504px

>>34497181
I will not deny that by all accounts it was a beast of a weapon. HOWEVER

I do have to wonder what that guy was supposed to do when not in the trenches?

>>34497129
>no feet
Buddy, you know this is /k/

>>34497086
It had a really low rate of fire but performed reliably. The Americans were issued it in .30-06 during training, but it was recieved so horribly that all of the rifles were swaped out with ones firing the original 8mm cartridge.
Word of mouth and bad memories persisted, and US troops refused to use them in fear of the horrendous problems they saw with the training models.

File: FnBdNah.jpg (494KB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

494KB, 3264x2448px

>plebs still need to look over the trench to snipe

>>34497219

Trenches could be 20-30 yards away or could be several hundred yards. But your shotgunners could realistically fire at a trench of upwards of 100 yards away with the possibility of hitting someone depending on ammo load.

Certainly the short distance trenches at 30-50 yards would be prime shotgun range. Blinding a hun with birdshot would be just as effective as killing him outright.

File: 52086.jpg (69KB, 1600x645px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 1600x645px

>>34497265
Sure, but there's definitely gonna be some longer-ranges shooting afoot once you break through the trenches; it's not like every single battlefield in WWI was a muddy hell of shell-holes and bunkers.

Just most of 'em.

>>34497265
There were actually reports of British commanders privately purchasing hunting shotguns to give to sentries with the order to shoot down incoming grenades. Skeet shooting contests were held to find the most able men.

File: crpnfc.jpg (268KB, 1959x460px) Image search: [Google]

268KB, 1959x460px

The italians were actually on a roll in gunsmithing around this period, as they not only did the first good SMG, but they also got in a decent try at a good full-auto battle rifle... Ian at Forgotten Weapons appraised the apparatus on this Cei Rigotti as at least superficially sound design.

>>34497299
I have heard that rumor too, and always wondered whether or not it worked. If your man had a premonition of incoming grenades, perhaps, but otherwise? Just seems very unlikely, but then again better than nothing at all.

File: Fake_Villar_Perosa_from_The_Sicilian.jpg (25KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 500x375px

>>34497343
>the spaghetti was strong

File: Gasser_M1870_-_National_Military-Historical_Museum_of_Ukraine.png (510KB, 800x434px) Image search: [Google]

510KB, 800x434px

" In 1910 King Nicholas I of Montenegro proclaimed that all male citizens were the Militia and had a right and a duty to own a Gasser Pattern revolver"

File: images.duckduckgo.com(2).jpg (14KB, 300x194px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 300x194px

>>34497363
I believe it. Steilhandgrenaten are rather large, and to throw it effectively you have to arc it up like in pic related

File: Frommerstop.jpg (98KB, 870x600px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 870x600px

>>34497412
"The Frommer M.17 pistol was also used in a dual-mounted tripod that fired both pistols in full automatic. The pistols were inserted upside-down and fed from 25 round box magazines"

- Ortner, M. Christian (2006). Storm Troops: Austro-Hungarian Assault Units and Commandos in the First World War: Tactics, Organisation, Uniforms and Equipment. Vienna: Militaria Verlag. ISBN 9783950164282.

File: 983830650f89dff5f8746109080a2b52--german-soldier-two-hands.jpg (16KB, 236x339px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 236x339px

>>34497448
they do look like it.

File: german-stormtroopers-wwi-DRDCT0.jpg (205KB, 1300x1070px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 1300x1070px

>>34497475
good luck snapping off a shot at all of 'em coming in at once, though.

File: Weapons-Old-West-Borchardt-h1.jpg (28KB, 725x294px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 725x294px

I've always found it odd that nobody seems to have used rockets in this war, considering how much of a hardon the British had already obtained for the Congreve.

A squad of men with lever action rifles would of been quite effective at clearing trenches.

File: 1.59-inch_Crayford_gun_photograph.jpg (53KB, 800x540px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 800x540px

Early in the war the British did think it might be neat to fire small artillery from infantry fireteams... hilariously superseded by trench mortars only to miss their actual effective deployment against German armor later in the war.

File: winchester_model_1895_by_plutonius-d5yp4r8.jpg (205KB, 1024x455px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 1024x455px

>>34497511
Also in the game, but the Winchester Model 1895 seems to have been employed in relatively large numbers by, again, the Russians, who probably used it like ass.

I prefer to imagine some enterprising doughboys getting their hands on some of these and cutting them down for use in trench raids.

File: Russians_winchester.jpg (200KB, 1000x632px) Image search: [Google]

200KB, 1000x632px

>>34497564

File: tumblr_m9n1npFwuM1reg6u1o1_1280.jpg (199KB, 701x1000px) Image search: [Google]

199KB, 701x1000px

>>34497505
The frogs tried it with style:

>>34497564
Would it have been completely retarded to build a lever-action rifle with a sideways-moving lever instead of a vertical action?

File: o2VJFrW.jpg (79KB, 1396x390px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 1396x390px

The Seblstader - another warfighting weapon rendered unusable in actual war because of germanic complexity

>>34496967
The Mars pistol is kind of an unmitigated disaster, largely because of it's caliber.

>>34497505
British and French aircraft used rockets on aircraft to attack zeppelins. They were innacurate, and could only be used reliably within around 100 meters. Which isn't a good thing, considering the size of the target and the speed of the aircraft

>>34497600
Like a straight pull?

>>34497661
It's true, but that doesn't stop it from being awe-inspiring. If you read up on the history of the guy who made it... I'm 100% certain he was spectrum.

>>34496696
>Browning Model 8 would have been a pretty damn impressive stormtrooper rifle.

No. it is a takedown hunting rifle where the action is a bitch with a bunch of fiddly bits.

Go watch ian disassemble one. there is a reason it was not a miltary arm.

>>34496893
No this is

Super Summer the post.

>>34497708
alas. only in my dreams, EA. only in my dreams.

>>34497719
did you like looking at all the fucking amazing gun pics I posted in here while you played with your clit?

File: springfield-armory-1903-mk-i-30-06-sprg-r18854-caliber-rifle-springfield-1903-with-pedersen-device.jpg (404KB, 1280x674px) Image search: [Google]

404KB, 1280x674px

>>34496696
Honestly, I would have really, really liked to have seen how the pederson device would have performed in combat. Seems like a pretty versatile setup from some american raiders. But the 1897 trench gun is also a strong contender- that shit was cash
>be a trap shooter
>shoot grenades out of the sky with a 1987 trench gun
>have them return to sender
What a sight that must've been.

>>34497749
Just looking at the pedersen device makes me uncertain - it just looks like it's designed for a lab, not the battlefield. Would love to have been proven wrong, though.

It's interesting to think on - for all these guns, the biggest problems usually come down to stuff like cost, intricacy, etc. - the same problems associated with guns like the Henry repeater in the American Civil War. Yet they were considered devastatingly effective in that conflict...

Don't think you'd have been able to get something done if you started in 1910. 1900 or 1905 maybe. Also as fun as small arms are woulda been more valuable to work on machine gun and artillery developments over small arms. At best jump ahead on the submachine gun business or hand pistols because trench-raiding soldiers spoke of wanting (or coveting) the electric torches, parabellums and good clubs and knives the Germans had.

A long rifle with selective fire or semi auto with a magazine is still a long rifle.
>>34497086

It was godawful dogshit in our burger caliber. French caliber was not great but it was pretty much unrivaled by anything else so it was good enough.

>>34497770

I think it's a very neat concept and I agree with the poster that I wish we either saw it in some use or more survived and could be shown in practice. If I recall Ian's video right though the magazine is really just held in by the stress of the bolt pinning it in place, which seems rather risky to me.

>>34497815
It is interesting to think on how the late war (1917-1918) saw entire fighting groups of raiders kitted out utterly different to how they went into battle initially. You might see a guy with the following:

Semi-auto pistol
Multiple grenades and IEDs like molotovs, can-nades
Sharpened entrenching tool
Flare gun

>>34497934
I would argue you saw guys like that very early on, but the kit would have been unofficial and he would have had a rifle as well. the late war changed doctrine to reflect reality reality had moved on and moved on fairly early. There are accounts of officers and men using store bought gear fairly early on. Except grenades, they weren't produced in great enough numbers early on

>>34498286
To the contrary, lots of the guys commented at length on just how fucking useless their rifles were in trench warfare. Guns tended to get sawed down, and carbine variants were in high demand. Bayonets were eschewed in favor of knives, shovels, and clubs.

Mystifyingly, pistols weren't ever issued standard to each infantryman. Even with associated costs, you'd have to think they'd supply that to their stormtroops. I believe at least the Germans and the Italians, with their Arditi, did just that.

>>34498306
People sawing down rifles is a meme. It never happened on a large scale

>>34498339
you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

>>34497770
the pederson conversion was cludged as hell, but managed to convert existing firearms into moderately reliable select fire/semi auto rifles

fielded en masse especially if you ended up with the logical conclusion of short rifles+pederson device for trench raiding would have been neat. although handguns shittily served the same role.

>>34498306
I'm not saying they loved their rifles they were just still required to have them. Officers and sergeants can overlook extra gear and field expedient explosives but you can't just drop your rifle.
All I'm saying is that you saw pistol, melee, and bomb guys really early on. they just had to carry around a rifle

>>34498339
this guy ain't me

>>34498391
That's a good point; I'm sure they were required to "have" them but I'm talking about what they looked like the moment they went "over the top."

>>34498410
the rifle is also more useful than given credit for in moments where it really shines. namely when repelling an enemy advance. Also we know that there was some rifle fire and maneuver because the basics of small unit tactics that survive to this day come out of the Great War, namely leapfrogging squads. Dropping rifles was a only for a very select few elites and when going trench raiding.

>>34498478
100% agree; I'm not saying everyone looked like a dude with tons of nades strapped to him. I'm just saying it was in those elite raiding groups that the changes were most vividly illustrated. Such a kit would obviously have been next to useless after breakthrough was achieved.

Bumb