Pump action vs Automatic

>>34470234
One of the big ones was the inability to cycle less than lethal rounds.

>>34470234
Manually cycled actions have less weight, and are generally cheaper to buy so I also assume cheaper to produce.

Are we talking about full auto shotguns or semi autos? Full auto shotguns are literal memes, the AA12 is dogshit and there is nothing you can't do with a full auto that you can't do with a semi. And to a certain extent, you can do what a semi auto can do with a pump.

https://youtu.be/er_pvyeuIp8?t=131

quite sure OP meant 'semi' automatic

Shotgun shells vary significantly in energy so some like birdshot will fail to cycle in a semi auto.

>>34470234

pump actions are more reliable and have less feeding issues

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>>34470252
>Full auto shotguns are literal mem-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD6EMQelT2o

>>34470234
Jimmy, just because the USAS is good in cod/battlefield doesn’t mean it’s good in real life
Full auto shotguns will never be as reliable as pump actions, not to mention that it can’t shoot the same variety of shells. Also why would you get full auto on a shotgun anyway? Seems kinda ridiculous

>>34470234
Pumps are cheaper to produce, and thus cheaper to buy.

Pumps will cycle extremely low-power loads, such as breaching loads and less-lethal munitions.

Pumps will continue to function when fouling has gotten to such an extreme it craps up a semi.

>>34471002
That hasn't been an issue since the 60's and the introduction of the Remington 1100.

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Semi: handy & fast, but needs ammo matched to your shotgun.
Pump: versatile & quite fast when trained for its use. you can cycle low velocity, low recoil, flares, frangible, etc.
Full auto: niche and not very useful in majority of cases.

Personally, I like the mix of pump & semi. Stuff like the Benelli M3 Tactical. But in reality these guns tend to be more complicated than they need to be and offer little gain over a dedicated semi or pump.

>>34471029
>pump actions are more reliable and have less feeding issues

Pfft, this is the whole "revolver vs pistol" debate all over again.

No, a semi auto shotgun will be perfectly reliable if you use the right ammo in it. It's not a real world issue if you intend to use it in a life or death situation since you'll exclusively use ammo which you are sure will cycle correctly.

Semis can be used as pumps if needed. Pumps can't be used as semis.

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>>34471216

>>34471062
Not full auto you fucking retard

>>34470234
Pump guns are cheaper and can cycle a larger variety of ammunition.

>>34471062
That's semi, noguns dipshit.

>>34471254
Good semis can eat anything you put into it from birdshot to 3" slugs.

>>34470234
Semi-Autos are know to be very finnicky and tend to not cycle correctly if you use anything but hot-loaded slugs

>>34471576
What the fuck semi's have you been using?

Exclusively the Saiga?

>>34471439
>good

Read "expensive for marginal gains"

I agree that there are semi out there that perform above the capability of pump, but the market hasn't had that standout or method that bridges the cost gap yet. Cheaper manufacturers for semi have had multiple issues from failure to feed, fire, accidental discharge, faulty safeties. For those reasons it's going to be hard to convince the market that your budget semi is 100% as reliable and safe as a pump.

>>34470234
>Since the invention of automatic shotguns, why are pump actions still produced?
Shotguns fire such a wide variety of ammunition that automatic designs can't really accommodate, especially the short or long recoil designs popular with automatic shotguns.

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What about lever action shotguns?

>>34472658
Superior.

>>34470234
>>34470240

Good question if youre not familiar with guns anon. I wish more video games would feature reliability. Manual action guns are still produced for relability, price, and ammo variations.

Manual guns are very often more reliable and easier to repair guns than automatics. They are often much cheaper to produce. They can take rounds with oddball pressures or projectiles, often reduced pressures.

Dragons breath and sand shot are examples you shouldn't use in an automatic.

Also with precision rifles, manual action can give greater accuracy for a number of reasons

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>>34472658
Nuff said

>>34472658
A meme that should have stayed dead in the 1880s

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>>34472439
Marginal gains?

The semi auto's reputation is trashed by the cheap unreliable chinese/turkish garbage flooding the market. Clones of the oldest piston designs in the 200-500 dollar range.

Intertia, automatic regulation and pump override add cost but gives you quite a bit more in the reliability department.

Just about to pick up a mossberg 930 jm pro, how did i do? Im new to semi-auto shotguns. I was reccomended it by my brother in law who owns a gun shop in my town, payed $600 flat out the door.

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>>34470234
Was going to make a thread about it, anyway; the new version of the KSG, the KSG 25, hold twenty-damned-five rounds of 2,75. So, yeah, pumps still have an ace in their sleeve

Well, there's also that nonsense about some auto-shotguns being classified as destructive devices by the NFA
So there's that to consider

>>34471439

Unless it's adjustable, it can't do very light loads and even if it is, some exotic shells will damage it or fail to cycle

>>34472976
some modern semi designs are self regulating now.

face the facts, who would actually use exotic loads in a serious situation? Even if you had to you could still use the pump override.

>>34472805
Turk shit is actually good though

>>34473004

>self regulating gas system

That sounds badass, only has reliability possibly on it now and probably not by much. I guess cost.

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>>34473008
They are mostly clones of cz712, a gas design that has its roots in the late 40's as a simple pump to piston conversion.

>>34472747
>Also with precision rifles, manual action can give greater accuracy for a number of reasons
Could someone explain this meme to me?
The argument of 'more consistent indexing/locking' seems like bullshit on par with the idea from the 20's that 'autoloaders are meaingfuly weaker because 0.1 joules is stolen from recoil to cycle the action, therefore impacting the bullet because because'.

Am I wrong?
Isn't the consistency of the action entirely dependent upon the tolerances between the barrel and lugs?
Doesn't brass play a larger role when the cartridge doesn't headspace off the bullet because there is way more variance in brass than in the difference of a few mil in the action from shot to shot?


>tl;dr
Call me a faggot and either tell me or prove to me why i'm wrong.
or
Affirm my logic/presumptions.

>>34473127
Cost and training mostly. I see people who are used to break actions or pumps struggle quite a bit when they start out on a semi.

>>34470234
Cheaper and more reliable. Pump actions do not have reliability issues when cycling different types of shells.

>>34471216
>he's never heard of slamfire

Autoloading shotguns are hilariously finnicky when it comes to anything other than standard power loads. There's an increasing trend to use low recoil or "law enforcement" shells to counter the high recoil that makes a shotgun less than desirable for some people and these don't tend to do so well in most modern automatics. They also don't like to handle breaching, less lethal, and general utility rounds which are important to cops and civilians alike. They're also rather expensive and don't offer huge benefits over a manual action gun that feeds the same number of rounds and no, don't mention box magazine shotguns. Those aren't widely adopted for a reason.

>>34473233
>cycling the action quickly turns the gun into an autoloader
By that logic fanning makes a gun into da/sa.

>>34473170

I've always understood that the main problems was that you can't have a true free floated barrel with an automatic, the bullets are more likely to indexed slightly off when the gun cycles, and the parts are more subject to vibrate inconsistently when fired.

I'd imagine you'd have to be trying to build a gun with greater accuracy than most experienced hunters can make use of at extreme distances for this to matter but it's there. Most automatics up until the past 50 years did have shit accuracy and that could have played a role of why it was even important back then. The FAL is like a 3MOA.

>>34473285
>and the parts are more subject to vibrate inconsistently when fired.
But that should only apply to the fcg. By that logic a enfield and a semi conversion should be subject to different accuracies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U682yOpNafg
(that's illogical)

The method of moving the action to lock up shouldn't have an impact on accuracy.

>>34473008
I ordered a Hatsan semi auto recently. Just how bad did I fuck up?

>>34471062
Good god damn, you're fucking stupid.

>>34473477
I have one of their pump actions. I consider buying one of their semi autos, they're really well received and if the pump versions are anything to go by then I'm sure it's a great gun.

>>34470240
>using non-lethal shells
>ever
>at all

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>>34473477
Roach here, in roachland the shotgun industry is very well developed because it's almost impossible to get a licence for a rifle and they are way too expensive due to no demand.

When it comes to semi-auto shotguns, Hatsan is pretty good but the word is designs for mag-fed semi-autos not based on those of actual mag-fed rifles tend to produce the cycling problems. Presumably because the concept tends to be experimental. The top 2 mag-fed semi-autos in the turkish market are the Derya Mk12 and my raifu UTAS XTR 12.

UTAS XTR 12 is essentially an AR 10 that fires 12ga. You can literally just switch out the upper receivers and convert the rifle. It came out I think almost 2 years ago now, and - as it seems to be a habit of UTAS now - they fixed all the issues with their first batch and everyone I know (myself included) are quite happy with it.

>>34473720
How's the third world treating you?

>>34473720
Who would you say is your country's best mass market firearms manufacturer in terms of materials used/quality control?

>>34472773

Aussies btfo