Fictional Ammo.

5.56 which case isn't bottlenecked, and is the same slim diameter throughout. It propels 62 gr projectiles at ~3000 fps with modern powders. Just imagine the mag capacity.

.45-70 necked down to fire 7n6 bullets.

>>34467602
6.5x77H
The objective is to take a round that's perfectly okay in terms of width, and make it a fair bit longer (in the bullet) and pack even more powder behind it to make a nice little anti-personnel round.
Very little taper, with the rim and bullets ogive (please correct that spelling) being optimized for feeding in a bolt action rifle, preferably a generic ass Mauser action scaled appropriately.
>7.92x40
Ultra heavy intermediate caliber meant for highly urbanized areas (weaight gives increased penetration)
Also enables easier manufacturing of
Explosive
Tracer
Tungsten penetrator
And hollow point rounds. Specifically meant for carrying payloads.
>6.5x23
A nice middle ground between 5.7 and the normal shit, like 9mm.
Not quite 7.62 Tok in terms of size, but makes up for it in speed.
NOT tapered, though semi rimmed (improved extraction in a browning style locking mechanism, as well as making head spacing easier to cheapen manufacturing)
Loaded FUCKING. HOT.

Honestly?
Almost anything else I can think of would just be messing with the materials of pre-designed rounds to facilitate easier penetration of things, better ballistics, etc.
But you wanted fictional, so that's what you got.

>6.5×45mm
>created by the fuggin gommies in a strangereal world where .280 British won over the US Army and succeeded at rendering both weaker intermediate cartridges and (to a lesser extent) full power cartridges obsolete
>the Soviets, seeing that 7.62×39mm had become outmatched almost as soon as it was introduced, panicked and realized they needed to fix this ASAP
>then they remembered the Fedorov Avtomat, a pre-WW1 designed automatic rifle shooting a 6.5mm cartridge that was weak-and softly recoiling-for a full power cartridge
>then, with that in mind, they saw the new Czech 7.62×45mm and got an idea...

>>34467602
Overpressured .32 ACP necked down to .17 calibre with hardened steel jacket

>>34467831
i'd like to envision a world where the Tsars loyalists were armed with Federovs and just steamrolled the judeo bolsheviks, or at least had him in charge of an Imperial Japanese Supported Empire east of the Urals

>>34467602

Already been done.

See 9.2mm Podbyrin

>>34467602
A bullet that will take all my troubles away

>>34467897
>judeo bolsheviks
pls go and stay go

Ultra sonic explosive hollow point .22 LR round: the perfect round for self defence
It'll blow up your gun after one use but one use is all you'll need

92gr 5.56 x 63 OTM because fuck it.

>>34467602
>M995A1 5.56x45mm
Devolped to defeat Level IV plates and other hard targets the M955A1 is a 59gr tungsten carbide penatrator, steel jacketed,Teflon coated round.
Called "The Black Death" by users for its ability to pierce any Level IV plate currently available and its ability to pierce improvised vehicle armor used by insurgents. The M995A1's muzzle velocity out of a 20" is 3300fps.

Restart the CAWS program and work on making a shotshell that can reliably function in a box magazine while using tungsten or steel projectiles instead of the awful soft lead ones we use today.

>>34467974
So it's an ice pick that completely lacks the primary wounding mechanic of the 5.56... b8?

Rimmed x54R.

Micro-explosives in intermediate rounds.

Tracker rounds a la the ZF1/Smart Pistol/Elysium's Space-AK.

And, of course, the eternal prototype-- caseless ammo.

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>>34467602
12 gauge pulse ammo for drones and rogue military androids

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.50AE necked to 5.56

It would fit inside in a pistol grip, would pierce armor, require minimal new tooling, and the only compromise is that you trade double-stacked mags for single-stack.

But wait, theres more. Fit it into a mag like pic related , but reverse the helical mag direction so it doubles as a stock. Now a pistol round can double as an smg round.

But wait, theres more: you make a polymer case with aluminum lining and it'll also fire at full auto without damaging the barrel.

>>34467919
Yes thats right we support jew marxism /k/ is a progressive board.

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>>34467602
5.6x45 "five six caliber". Same case and bullet diameter as 5.56x45, but overall longer round that allows low drag bullets with 14.5mm ogive length. 5.6x45 is backwards compatible with 5.56x45. 5.56x45 can fit into larger magazine and action of 5.6x45 guns. 5.6x45 obviously can't fit into 5.56x45 magazines and guns.

>>34468974
Are you trying to say 5.6x51? Or are you saying just stuff a longer bullet into a 5.56 case 6.5 creedmoor style?

>>34469016
>just stuff a longer bullet into a 5.56 case
This. Different case makes caliber incompatible with legacy 5.56x45. Whole idea is fixing poor form factor and long range performance of 5.56x45 bullets but at the same time not falling into trap of snowflake caliber "i don't have my special ammo at hand so my gun collects dust" Because you can shoot 5.56x45 through this special gun when 5.6 ammo is not available.

>>34469056
Then it wouldn't be 45mm long, now would it?

>>34468968
>/k/
Come on man, you're shitposting wrong, making us look bad. The meme goes
>when pol doesn't realize that K is a progressive board

Gentleman. Meet the the .577 modern.
A .577 full metal jacketed boat tail round mated to the reliable and proven 12 gauge cartridge.
Notice that the shell casing is necked down to have the same dimensions as the venerable Zulu and afghan killing round so much enjoyed by the regiments.
The .557 retains the same proven black and muslem killing power and provides increased accuracy and power enabling large holes to be placed in the enemies of the crown.
This is the .557 modern ball. Also to be demonstrated for you today will be the .557 modern soft nose, trace, incendiary (for when you went to also cremate the target), the tungsten core body armour defeating round and the high explosive round.
They will be fired from the prototype L9A1 bullpup .577 using the twenty round magazine.

If you gentlemen would move to your left we have seating arraigned so you can see the marksman and at five hundred meters, the blacks and Muslems chained to posts. Please take a pair of binoculars as you pass the table.

>>34469294
Looking at this makes me believe I have sat through too many vendors demonstrations.

>>34469069
45 is the case length, not OAL.

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.221 Fireball, necked down to 4.6, slightly longer neck to accommodate longer bullets, and OAL of a .223 Rem. It'll be like a minified 6.5 Grendel

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>>34467602
.223 with higher powder charge and titanium projectile
please be patient i have autism

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>>34467640
handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA433982

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10mm Extra Magnum

.45 acp in depleted uranium

>>34467640
Sounds like extraction might suck, and if the WSMs are any indicator, short and fat is more efficient for powder burn than long and skinny.

>>34468225
That's a problem for nearly any AP round that doesn't have multiple bullet components (mk318, m855a1) though. Even the black tip 7.62x51 has this issue.

405 grain cast lead .454 in a .45 colt case with 18.5 gr of h110. 1375 fps out of a 20 inch barrel, about 1100 fps out of 8 inch barrel. It's fucking glorious.

>>34469620
How do you stop it going too far down the barrel?

>>34469629
>fudds use their 270 durr rifles to fireform it
Genius

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10mm plastic spin-imparting discarding projectile, with an all copper 110gr 7.62 projectile inside. Should easily see 2000fps out of a 5" barrel, with good-to-fair expansion down to 1600fps, and still work okay on windshields.

Works fine in any current 10mm gun.

>>34467602
.308 Win that is necked-up to .357, basically same concept of .35 Whelen and it would be used by either an M-14 or Ohio Ordinance's HCAR. Would call it the .35 Hammer.

>>34469983
it would headspace on the neck like a pistol cartridge

>>34467602
Idea one:
.25 Super; .32 Super:
basically beefed up versions of .25 and .32, both in double stack gas delyed ultra light and ultra slim pistols

Idea two:
7.62 Super Tokarev: 10mm neckdown to accept tok bullets

Idea Three:
.17 Carbine: .17 HMR boolit+30 carbine case (i know that .22 spitfire is a thing, but this one would use spizters)

>>34469620
>handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA433982
omg

>>34469620
>>34470939
Too bad it was utter shit.
>garbage barrel life due to using a no-bullshit primary explosive as propellant
>garbage accuracy due to the no-bullshit primary explosive literally melting the base of the bullet
>would create excessive headspace and lead to catastrophic failures due to case-head separation and KB's within 500 rounds

>>34469983
It headspaced on the case mouth, coupled with a much-beefier extractor to help hold it in place.

>>34470777
Take a look at the .25NAA and .32NAA.
>.25NAA
Take a .32acp case. Neck it down to .25cal. Run it at 9x18 pressures to throw a 35gr hollowpoint at 1200-1300fps
>.32NAA
Take a .380acp case. Neck it down to .32cal. Run it at 9x19 pressures to throw a 70gr bullet at up to 1100fps.
Both still work in blowback guns, both have less felt recoil than their parent calibers despite offering decent velocity and much-improved penetration with expanding hollowpoints, to the point where they meet FBI minimum penetration requirements out of ~2" barrels.

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I want a pistol that fires this

>>34471089
I know that these exist, but they retain original base diameter.

>>34467602
155mm artillery shell necked down to .10 cal

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>>34467602

>>34470777
I want these pretty hard as well. For the .32 I know of two obscure wildcats. First 7.92x24 - a .30 Carbine cut down, and .32 instead of .308 for bullet variety and to account for the taper of the round. Pretty sweet IMO. The other is 7mm Penna which is some hipster Italian cartridge and I don't even know where to acquire brass.

>>34472026
oh yeah also 7.65mm French Longue. About the same energy as .380. That you can actually buy live ammo for it and reloading components so if you wanna fuck around there's an option

>>34471089
Ever since that video on the PSM I really want a small .25 NAA pistol, but I don't want it to be an NAA. 5.45x18mm just looks like such a fun cartridge to shoot.

>>34467912
So like one made of gold?

>>34467602
.50BMG necked down to a long 6mm spike.

>>34467674
>7.92x40
http://www.municion.org/7_92x40/7_92x40.htm

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>>34467897
>judeo bolsheviks

>>34468968
Prove that ZOG is real without A) unsourced infographs and/or B) resorting to ad hominem. I'll wait.

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>>34467602

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>>34473214
ZOG/Jew world control conspiracy implies that the Jews control everything from media to "credible" academia/universities.

Therefore, any kind of evidence I bring of the ZOG will be obviously dismissed by you because it's not backed by (((""credible sources"")))

Therefore, your request is dead on arrival.

>>34473250
Great for assassins I suppose, but who wants to trade bullets that likely will go bad or sicken your own men in exchange for waiting minutes for incapacitation.

>>34473306
The best conspiracy theories are always unfalsifiable. The flat earth peeps need to take a page from your playbook and step up their game.

>>34473349
>The best conspiracy theories are always unfalsifiable.
I'll agree with that

>>34467602

>8x28mm FN

it's really just the 5.7x28 cartridge used in the Five Seven with no neck down and an 8mm bullet to address people complaining about the round being anemic while maintaining the impressive capacity

>>34473323
>that likely will go bad
Only true if there is a biological origin (read: harvesting) or it is volatile.
The only real requirement is it to be poisonous to humans and highly blood soluble. Those requirements are achievable without meeting the above conditions.

>sicken your own men
Only if they shoot themselves.

>exchange for waiting minutes for incapacitation.
Making enemy medics irrelevant is a pretty good benefit.

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>>34467919
Technically correct tho

CPUSA was the same

>>34467919
Someone doesn't know about the Jewish revolt of 1918

>>34467674
>semi rimmed
Enjoy rim lock
>but makes up for it in speed
And why do you want a smaller faster bullet? 5.7 is the ideal AP round, and if you don't want AP then 9mm is ideal. Also 6.5 CBJ is just tapered AP 9mm, so what you want except way better.

8mm grendel, 60mm COAL, for use in 308 length actions shortened to beef up bolt and chambers should be able to take higher than 63kpsi of pressure, and be down-loaded for rebarreled Vz.52s

>>34473306
You can't just say that and not provide evidence. Show me something and I'll assess it, I'm not a collectivist retard like you who dismisses evidence because it doesn't conform to my worldview.

If you fail to provide evidence and your excuse is that I'll ignore it then you lose by default.

>>34471089
>much-improved penetration with expanding hollowpoints
Citation needed, and this comes at the cost of less expansion.

>>34473397
So basically rimless .327 magnum, except weakened substantially so it doesn't blow up 5.7 guns.

>>34473448
What are you going to use though that isn't a liquid? You don't want it leaking out of bullets and getting on your guys hands.

Is there a solid agent available that you can put inside a fmj or otm?

>>34468342
>Rimmed x54R
So regular ol' 54R?

Rebated rim 40mm grenades for a lightweight APIB-based automatic grenade launcher.

>>34467602
Some kind of modern equivalent to the 7.62tok round using a 9mm case that's bottlenecked down to accomodate a 7.7mm 90 - 100gr projectile. A smaller, lighter bullet would mean a marginally faster velocity with marginally less recoil. Hollow points could be made to expand pretty dramatically, and even jacketed rounds would have some modest armor penetration capabilities.

Sharing a case with 9mm means that any pistol firing 9mm could theoretically be adapted to fire this new cartridge with a new barrel and recoil spring.

>>34467654
>at mach jesus

>>34473175
>kaiser wilhelm II
>responsible for ww1
Try austria hungary and serbia

>>34474533
t. brainlet

>>34471159
No matter how big your case is you'll always have a limit on MV because of expansion rate of propellant.
All modern firearms have a MV limit in the 6000fps range if I recall.

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>>34469629
>10mm Extra Magnum
>Extra

>>34467602
9x54r

Heavier slugging mmg/lmg cartrige for beautiful rechambered pkm

>>34474958
Holy shit. That makes me imagine a PKM in .45-70

>>34474485
Kind of surprised this doesnt exist.

>>34474719
What if we stuck the tiny boolit into a sabot?

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>>34474325
What I would do is use metallic foam such that the martrix permitted the insertion of a steel penetrator or three in the center, then I would fill the empty space with an anti-coagulant and a blood soluble poison. Open tip match sounds like the best bet.

(picture is only to clarify meaning of metallic foam)
The poison is prolly gonna be a meme like very fast death factor.

>>34475297
When someone creates a poison that kills faster than a piece of metal flying through your body at 3,000 feet per second and can't possibly harm the user, maybe.

>>34475297
You just invented the world's most expensive bullet, very nice.

>>34467888
do you just want them to spring a leak? Or actually incap them?

>>34467602

9mm Pariah

Take .45 ACP brass and neck it down to 9mm to piss off proponents of both.

>>34474283

Or just beef up the designs of the guns that use them

6x45mm NATO

100 grain OTM

>>34475396
Ah yes let's make a cartridge compatible with nothing in existence, that'll be an instant hit

Thermite round, all NATO Standard Calibers, also known as the "Definitely not a War Crime, Guys" round.
The projectile is a ceramic outer casing filled with thermite with a slow-burning fuse that is ignited upon firing the round. Once the round embeds itself in the intended target, it stays there until the fuse ignites the thermite, melting the ceramic and causing extreme levels of tissue damage and suffering.

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>>34475385
kek

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>>34468941
>reverse the helical direction so it can be a stock

.223/5.56 necked up to 8mm. It'd be everything .300 Blackout is but better

500TW Power core for space to ground laser weapons

>>34475310
cyanide

>>34475318
>world's most expensive bullet
I can do better if you want that.

I use 3d laser sintering to create a porous geometric metalic foam from 1090 which is then hardened as if metallic glass was trying to be made, I then pressure cast sodium into it. Vacuum metal deposition is used to jacket the bullet in tungsten. The bullet is them brought exactly to spec using focused ion beam milling.

That should be a meme bullet that costs a couple dozen thousand and about a week to make.
The other bullet would only have been about a few dozen dollars.

>>34467602
A hollow point cartridge with a cesium-lithium alloy penetrater, for soft targets only.

>>34475310
Something like very fast death factor sealed inside a metal container that needs to be going 3000 feet per second and fly through a body in order to break open and cause exposure?

>>34475590
Someone justs memed a fragmentation grenade bullet...

>>34474237
Gel tests. The .25NAA will achieve between 6 and 7" of penetration with the 35gr XTP hollowpoint, which expands to .395" consistently. Which is about on par with .25ACP FMJ's and over an inch deeper than literally any hollowpoint .32acp while offering much greater expanded diameter. Still not ideal, but it's a mousegun. The heavier 51gr bullet achieves 9-11" of penetration at the cost of lower expanded diameter (.340" on average).

The 71gr factory load in the .32NAA achieves 13" of penetration and a .410" expanded diameter, which is better than some of the older 9x19 hollowpoints still in production (looking at you Golden Saber) while meeting FBI penetration requirements. The 60gr factory load achieves 10-11" of penetration but offers a .450" expanded diameter.

Note all of these are from a 2.5" barrel, not a 4"+ duty-gun barrel like all 9x19, .40s&W, and .45acp are tested from.

>>34475231
It has for a long goddamn time. .30 Mauser.

PPU offers a basic, no-nonsense hollowpoint that offers around 14" of penetration and a decent expanded diameter in it.

>>34474719
What if we use magnets?

>>34475438
If you build it,
They will come.

>>34476064
Just about every wildcatter except for 3 or 4 of them would disagree.

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20mm liquid Fluorine filled Iridium round fired by Anzio 20mm, possibly with explosive variant.

would penetrate tank armor (iridium wouldn't react with F at room temperature, but would upon compressive adiabatic heating, as would most armor material), spew nasty fluorochemicals everywhere and catch nearly everything on fire, as it reacts with almost everything, especially at high temps.

>>34469629
more like rimless 45-90

>>34471159
.17 Moonshot ?

>>34472500
>7.65mm French Longue
you mean .30 Pedersen?

>>34469439
If the case is the same and you just have a longer bullet, it WOULD chamber in a 5.56 chamber. It might not go into a standard magazine, but it would absolutely fit into a bolt gun. You're not talking about a new cartridge, you're just stuffing a bigger bullet into the same cartridge. It would still be 5.56x45

26 Nosler with a 10,000 shot barrel life.

>>34475846
>.25 NAA
I'm sorry, but that's terrible. Only the blissfully ignorant would trust a bullet with 7" of penetration, you'd be much better off with ball. The .32 NAA sounds decent, you might be on to something there, but the market between the ubiquitous .32 ACP and .380 is a tough niche to hold. That being said, going back to
>much-improved penetration with expanding hollowpoints
I believe the best .380s expand .5 something inches and go 12 or 13" deep, so not quite.

Has anyone tried putting a browning 50 cal into some sort of shotgun shell?

An intermediate cartridge that minimizes its size by using a .50 BMG/12.7mm Soviet/14.5mm Soviet (whichever would give the best results) primer with as little casing and powder as feasible. Assault rifle with an Uzi layout that doesn't require big meaty hands to use, aww yiss.

On >>34471089's note,
>7.92 EEA
Same as .32 NAA, but with a 9mm Makarov case instead of a .380 ACP case, with the pressures it runs at increased accordingly.

>>34477102
sure but you can more easily find ammo and reloading under the name 7.65x20 French Longue

>>34477218
Hi newf...friend.

Yes, it's been done by damn near every redneck with a reloading press. Basically a 700g sabot slug.

>>34467946
How fast is ULTRA sonic? How about Hyper? Or super?

>>34467602
Straight wall semi-caseless with a reusable piezo primer. The case is actually a polymer skirt snapped into a cannelure on the bullet. The base has pseudo-threads that screw into the other end of the polymer skirt, with something like Loctite keeping it from backing out.

The primer function is handled by a piezo crystal in the primer pocket. A single primer/base assembly would be reusable for potentially dozens of shots.

Upon firing, the polymer skirt separates from the base assembly. The skirt stays with the bullet, filling a function similar to the skirt on a Minie ball. The whole bullet/skirt assembly could also work like a Gyrojet round, depending on the internal architecture of the skirt and a bi-phase propellant structure.

There would undoubtedly be size limitations, both upper and lower.

>>34477218
Saboted .50 slugs were popular in the 70s and 80s. They were billed as being designed for LE to shoot through car doors and similar light obstructions. I still have a handful of BRI Penetrators that I bought in my tacticool phase. That was back before you were born, I'm pretty Fudd now.

9mm semi-explosive compressed powder.

Used exclusively in 3-shot burst pistols. First two rounds are the above, a highly combustible compressed powder in a thin aluminum jacket. Third round is an explosive/incendiary round. First two bullets impact with minimal impact, bursting into a cloud of explosive material which the third round ignites to make a thermobaric explosion that'll kill the hell out of whatever dumb bastard pissed you off.

>>34467602
I like the guy with the .32 super idea.
Perhaps we could adjust the physical bullet to be slightly more spitzer in shape as well?

I've always thought that someone needed to come up with a round specifically to modernize the civilian pocket pistol market.

Make the .32 super, then couple it with a handgun slightly smaller than the PSM (in terms of footprint; the width is absolutely perfect as far as I'm concerned), preferably locked breech, and I'd buy the ever living fuck out of it.

>>34475590
>That should be a meme bullet that costs a couple dozen thousand and about a week to make.

Lets take it up a notch. Since you put a tungsten jacket on it, you might as well make a snowflake platform to fire it. Yes, this is one of those times when the P word is appropriate.

Make it a bull barrel with an oversized smooth bore. Each bullet comes with a matched barrel liner, guaranteed 0.10 MOA out to 5K yards. Now lets ship each round/liner combo in a custom case, with 12 biometric locks keyed to the end user's full set of fingerprints and retina patterns.

If you're gonna go Gucci, do the full Liberace package.

>>34467602
>12.7mm PLAS
>single use cartridge that when the primer is struck induced a chemical reaction resulting in massive amounts of electricity being released in the form of a bolt of plasma effective up to 100m before dissipating
>fired from the AK86 rifle, The first automatic directed energy weapon developed for infantry use. Piston cycles by way of electromagnets powered by energy bleedoff from the escaping plasma

>>34475385
On one hand, that's disgusting. On the other, I feel like it might actually have interesting ballistics.

>>34474958
They actually exist in reality, but rarely outiside russia.

>>34467674
Speed is penetration not weight you baka, plus 792 40, who needs shoulders anyway

>>34476136
most modern armored vehicles have fire suppression systems and this round would be hella expensive, and "inhumane". It would be cool sure, but blowing up the crew and internal mechanics would be more effective than lighting a fire for one second.

A "smart" 120mm mortar projectile containing an explosively pumped flux compression generator hooked up to a railgun (obviously destroyed upon use).


Homes in on a tank from above then detonates the compression generator to power the railgun.

>>34467602
20x65mm based on a cut-down vulcan cartridge for use in a Deagle brand Deagle designed to provide maximum stopping power against bath salts negroids.
In all seriousness though, how viable would a round much larger than 12.7mm be for a pistol, or a revolver? Would .950 JDJ be a viable alternative to a cut down vulcan for a handgun?

>>34479163
What about that pesky equal and opposite reaction thing?

6.25x50mm (.246 cal)
Just another one of those high intermediate rounds that might fall into the fabled sweet spot between pissweak 5.56 and overly strong .308. So as long as the energy vs distance line graph traces its path somewhere between the above two, that'd be good enough. Trying to go too close to .30 cals like the .264 USA always ends up making a round that has no real niche beyond being "this is a slightly weaker, slightly softer 7.62 Real NATO, have fun".

A brick but in a casing

>>34479379
Would just send the rails flying in the opposite direction wouldn't it?

>>34479069
K=1/2MV^2
Kinetic energy focused to a smaller point, coupled momentum makes penetration.

You can't have penetration without at least a little weight.
Speed does give us most of the penetration but for the sake of being able to have the wind not be a problem (or at least as much of one) mass is a good thing.

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>>34467602
>>34474888

More of a weapons tweak than a cartridge but... (pic only somewhat related)

10mm Magnum chambered into a Desert Eagle with a double stack magazine (there's enough space in the grip profile trust me, also the typical magnum rounds already stagger slightly).

> 12-15 round capacity
> as strong as a .44 magnum
> 20-25 round extended magazine would be available too

I still consider it a fictional round because of how rare and unused it is.

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>>34467602
Pic somewhat related

Laser Guided Mortar Rounds
and with optional airburst package

You see, if properly mass produced with the tech we had 10 years ago... we could be launching ultra efficient mortar attacks, against buildings, even against vehicles. The key being mass produced, it would keep the costs down to a reasonable level.

Now you've got the equivalent of an air strike in a portable format, even more effective than artillery in some regards.

Mortar crews still have to be adept at aiming their ordinance, but a spotter designator can make sure it hits exactly what they want it to. All they have to do is get it in the same general area and it will deviate course to intercept the dot.

Easy Mode achieved - rounds could be made for all available US military mortars.

>>34480288
This is what we'll shift towards in a few years - it'd be especially effective when combined with a network of target data sharing spotting drones, from low altitude quadrotor ones to reapers and the like

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>>34467602
>>34468974

Okay how about this... a slightly modified 5.7mm round.

* Rienforce the case web at the base.
* Load it hotter, to roughly .30 carbine level (about double the firepower it normally has)
* Load 5.56mm EPR rounds into it.

If any physical changes need to be made to it I would say increasing the case length to 30mm and possibly increasing the width of the case to 9mm would still be tolerable.


>>34468941
This is basically the ammunition the Venom Gun used in RTCW game (except it was .50cal necked down to 7.92mm, or it was firing 7.92 sabot rounds).

The advantage of this is you can have it in a pistol with a rather wide (but not long) grip. Unlike a .223 since you're reducing length and increasing diameter on the case.

The problem is capacity, the magazine capacity is going to be fucked pretty much... 20 rounders that are as long as 30 rounders.

Still if you want an intermediate rifle round that fits in a handgun too, priorities would dictate.

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>>34480351
Also meant to say the advantage of a high powered ("magnum") 5.7mm is you could use it as a handgun round, PDW round...

And even in a rifle package it would be somewhat effective and worthwhile to have, both because of added ammo capacity and reduced weight for the ammunition. By having it loaded hot, with a longer barrel, you could be driving a 62gr bullet at 2300fps (which isnt that much less performance than a .223 out of an M4).

> the military just loves their bullet-slinging capabilities, and this allows them to sling more bullets in the same general direction, while retaining about the same effectiveness because of that EPR design.

Also have the bullets' grinding surface coated in a lubricant like teflon or tungsten di-sulphide, and possibly tweaked with some gas check rings. This improves barrel life, and muzzle velocity.
>>34480314
yeah but qt pi, we've had the technology to deploy this on a field level for at least the last 15 years... they could have made it workable in the 90s but it would've been too expensive back then.

This is pretty much better than having OICW or XM-25 because you're getting a much more effective projectile that can defeat cover, with a much longer range (miles?).

It wouldn't be able to exactly perform the same function, but making it very accurate is pretty much equivalent to launching a rocket into some place.

And I mean lobbing a mortar round right into the window of some place is just about as effective and making a tiny grenade blow up 5 feet inside.

Finned steel dart with a leather or fabric(treated with linseed oil or something perhaps?) sabot, to be fired from a smoothbore musket.

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>>34480426
>yeah but qt pi [...]
I'm not disagreeing with you anon. I think mortars are the future. I'm predicting light armored vehicles with heavy mortars and advanced/high cap ADS systems will play an important role on future battlefields.

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>>34480351
>>34480426

Pistol capacity 20 or 30 rounds.
> you can do away with 9mm handguns now.
> everybody uses the same ammunition for all the standard pistols, rifles, and smgs

SMG and Rifle capacity 40 rounds
> or 100 round drums
> (maybe 200 round helical drums?).
> Quad Stack magazines of 60 rounds that actually function reliably due to the straight-wall nature of the cartridge and shorter spring travel for the mag.

This opens the door for lowering and raising the bar on the battle rifle cartridge arena. If you can get the main infantry rifles chambered in this, then you can have the DMRs and LMGs chambered in 6.5mm (creedmoor or lapua).

And you can have MMGs chambered in that .338 norma nonsense to reduce the role of .50s on the battlefield (leave those as vehicle mounted weapons).

Its better to carry a lighter gun and ammo around even if you have to fire twice as many rounds with it.

>>34480440
im going to remember this for my roleplaying game sessions - ill say its like shooting a crossbow bolt except its smaller

> mfw it gets 4 times the range of a normal musket ball and inflicts nearly the same amount of damage

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>>34480483
> reference was to your numbers since they ended in 314

Im not done with this loadout either. Pic related is a monstrous 14.9mm long range bullet for an equally monstrous sniper rifle some douchebag is building.

This fucking thing supposedly gets 5 km accuracy - theorized, or actualized, we dont know yet, but with the profile of that long ass bullet with its driving bands and boat tail (probably just like a .375cheytac) I don't doubt it.

Now I want you to consider having a mounted, chain-driven semi automatic gun for a standard military vehicle (no its not a machinegun). Designed completely around accuracy, complete with a ballistics package. Its the size of an M2 but its got more penetration than a 14.5mm.

> and with that ballistics package you're looking at guaranteed hits out to 1 mile, a feat that an M2 is only going to accomplish with repeated bursts
> and with an experienced operator and a guy calculating windage we're talking 2 mile category

Single shots delivered at great range by average operators that can plow through most ground cover and light vehicle plating. As a solid non-exploding round they can even (legally?) engage individuals, turning a vehicle and its operator into a DMR.

This is one of those things that you wouldn't realize the benefits of it until you had a bunch of these things all over the place. It doesn't look as good on paper as say, just being able to call in an airstrike, but its alot more convenient.

Also doubt that standard fortifications, masonry walls with sandbags on the back are going to stop this. You get FLIR going and you can shoot people behind the walls from so far away they dont expect it.

> lets go Sniper with our vehicles
> it can literally come from anywhere now
> it doesn't take trained sniper crews to do this

>>34480537
>im going to remember this for my roleplaying game sessions - ill say its like shooting a crossbow bolt except its smaller
I'm pretty sure accuracy would suffer compared to a ball, but it ought to penetrate plate armor much better.

>>34480657
>finned sabot
>less accuracy than subcaliber lead ball

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>>34480644

I meant to say that having it as a Semi Automatic chain-driven weapon helps retain the accuracy of a single shot because it doesn't rely on recoil or gas to cycle the round. The action happens mechanically almost the same each time.

Since the gun would be designed around accuracy the barrel would also be harmonically tuned - im thinking Octagon shaped heavy barrel here, just to keep costs down rather than making some spiral thingie.

> it would basically be about as big as pic related, and would be robotically controlled from inside the vehicle, the operator would use a joystick/controller to fire it about the same way that UGVs are piloted
> we be all 80s cyberized combat now

Making it semi automatic also fulfills the need to use it as a defensive weapon up close, its not as effective as a .50mg but if you can pop off 2 rounds per second it can still be viable against enemy vehicles (since anything less than an APC it will go through one side and out the other).

And well, it means at shorter ranges (500-1500 yards) you can give the enemy a hard time because their cover just will not do it against this thing.

Belt fed means you can have 50-100 of this, and since its in a vehicle you can carry alot of ammo for it.

>>34480657
smoothbore caps ball to about 50m and thats it

being that what you're talking about is a flechette it already stabilizes itself because of the fins, they knew about this because of arrows and thats the real reason that rifling came about (besides reducing fouling or extending the capacity for it)

experimental 5.56mm flechette rounds were getting 800 yard accuracy and APDS rounds for tanks reach out for miles

I expect this musket round to get at least 200 yards reliability.

>>34480715
Remember that they'd be hand-made and with medieval measuring tools and materials. If the sabot doesn't separate cleanly and all at once, it might fuck up the trajectory of the (possibly unbalanced) dart.

Anyway, I'd really want to test the feasibility if I had a replica musket.

>>34480750

Probably better to do a condensed-pulp type of route, then wrap it in wax to keep it lightly sealed. You would need moulds for this though so that the insertion of the flechette remained precise.

It may not have good durability, some of them will come apart just in the process of daily movement and jostling. This would be solved by putting them in a wooden case, but thats going to limit how many you can carry or how fast you can reload them.

>>34468342
The Elysium space AK was more of an OICW-style proximity fused explosive/frag round, though possibly it was steerable too.

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>>34480715
>>34480750

While we're at it im going to dump another idea ive had, straight out of vidya (quake 1).

Meant more for erecting temporary structures quickly, a defense contractor could also be told they want their propellant-driven nailguns to be viable weapons too.

Uses a 10mm Auto case with a long sabotted nail as shown (the case is maybe long enough to snugly support the nail/sabot while retaining powder capacity to drive it).

The sharp fins on the nail increase internal wounding capabilities, while also making it work better to hold thick wood or plastic beams together (like a screw does).

>>34480825
>Probably better to do a condensed-pulp type of route, then wrap it in wax to keep it lightly sealed.
That sounds like a good idea. The first idea that came to me was fastening a strip of animal glue-soaked vellum to a metal rod (dart-diameter) and winding it really tight around it to desired thickness, then using a spinning circular blade to cut it cleanly along the length twice (rotating 90 degrees between cuts) almost all the way to the end. The dart would then be inserted until the fins touch the connecting part of the tube.

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>>34480876

And along the lines of where this RP came from, since they would literally have tens upon tens of thousands of rounds of this shit laying around... they also requisitioned a LMG capable of shooting them out at a high rate of fire.

That way in case of any serious "problems" they could just use this ammunition which was already plentifully available rather than investing in the logistics for a 7.62mm machinegun.

> if you need longer range, just get closer, we're talking about xeno slipgate threats here

It would be about as deadly and with about the same penetration, at the 100-200ish yards reach that a weapon system like this could be useful at.

> Thus we have a reason for the Super Nailgun to be invented, and it would be carried by the Enforcers.
> dont screech, im aware that form follows function, if it was going to be a real weapon it would have a belt feed on it somewhere.
> and also I expect the SNG would fire 2 at a time, from the top and bottom barrel simultaneously for maximum stopping power.

>>34480288
Guided mortar shells exist in various forms, but I doubt laser-guided ones exist yet. There are anti-tank shells etc.

>>34467602
caseless ammunition?

>>34474719
It'd be more for making a statement. Like using .50 BMG for squirrel hunting. Show those little shits who's boss

>>34474593
t. Eternal (((*nglo)))

>>34479163
120 Super say-bo

>>34467602
so basically banned by the geneva convention: the thread? i'd be interested in hearing how you'd most effectively counter robots like those darpa are making assuming you don't have a dead-eye shot to the CPU, considering they could be heavily plated and obviously feel no pain

>>34481162
>i'd be interested in hearing how you'd most effectively counter robots like those darpa are making assuming you don't have a dead-eye shot to the CPU, considering they could be heavily plated and obviously feel no pain
standard AP rounds will do it.

.22 short rifle

>>34481279
you're going to use anti tank rounds on things which would be essentially infantry?

>>34481981
AP ammo exists for small arms, I'd imagine .50 BMG SLAP rounds would go through any feasable armor you could put on a human sized robot.

>>34480741
Depends on when before everyone started using undersized balls to up the fire rate the max range for a man sized target was 70m.

>>34482018
SLAP is not "standard" in any way. Black tip APs would be more feasible for standard issue, but then you COULD armor something with thick enough plates to resist that without going unmanageably overweight.

Good luck actually carrying around that rifle on patrol though. Oh, and extra good luck on not coincidentally getting into a firefight with normal old human infantry, because you might be pissing away $11.25 (inflation 1998 -> 2017) per shot on things that might be better handled by large amounts of cheap 5.56.

Question: With hyper velocity rounds is it not better to go with a smoothbore design and fin stabilized rounds rather than rifled barrels? Seems like the usual problems of erosion caused by really hot loads can be fixed by having no extra resistance along the barrel beyond surface contact.

>>34482102
My point is that anything humanoid can't feasibly be armored to the point of needing anti-tank weapons, SLAP rounds are proof of this.

>>34482139
>anything humanoid
One can theoretically armor a humanoid design better than any wheeled or tracked design because the joints have a limited range of motion rather than needing infinite free rotation. Sliding armor plates can give a small humanoid walker bot plenty of protection, even up to anti-SLAP grade. It is certainly easier to do with small scale robots than big ones.

>>34482139
why would they be humanoid?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_luhn7TLfWU

>>34479101
Fluorine would react with many fire suppressants. that's why it's such a huge pain.
it'd catch tank armor, crew, and everything else it touches at high temps on hydrogen fluoride producing fire.

the Iridium round would have a penetration head (iridium is the second densest metal, after osmium) and could take uranium.

>>34482157
>you're going to use anti tank rounds on things which would be essentially infantry?
I was talking about combat robots on the scale of humans, as opposed to big mecha. .50 BMG SLAP rounds can penetrate up to 1.34" of RHA at 500m (http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/mg/50_ammo.html), any human-scale robot with steel armor that thick would have very limited mobility, and any other sort of armor would either be even worse (Kevlar, Aluminum) or total Sci-Fi.

>>34482233
Weak points and gaps in the armor can be left for the joints to have full mobility while still being incredibly hard targets to get at. Leaving the hips and ankles less armored isn't even that much of a problem if DARPA properly programs the Beep Boop to take cover like any other soldier.

A robot also doesn't have the limitations of needing to be built exactly like a human. The skeleton of a bot could be made vastly different internally in order to allow for good mobility despite having an inch and a half of metal skin on most parts of its body.

>>34482161
Humanoid robots have more compatibility with current equipment than robotic pack animals, because everything is already designed for humans to interact with. A humanoid robot would be able to sit in an APC just as a human soldier would, could handle just about any weapon since weapons have always been designed for humans, etc.

>>34482268
Internal layout and leaving joints comparably unarmored can't get around the fact that a human has a certain surface area, and reducing the hit probability on less armored sections would mean armoring a majority of that surface area. A man has a body surface area of about 1.9m^2, covering even a small portion of that area with 1.5" thick steel would be incredibly heavy and detrimental to mobility and not literally falling through the floor of a regular building.

>>34482274
Don't forget ladders.

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>>34467602
caseless .577 (14.9×76mm) Tyrannosaur

>>34482295
If it weighs less than a piano then it should be okay. I am currently imagining combat robot dwarves.

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>>34482157
Furthermore, wheeled and tracked vehicles are much easier to armor than humanoids due to having far fewer complex joints. Compare the complexity of armoring something like a tank, which just has an armored hull, turret, mantlet, road wheels, and tracks, to a suit of plate armor.

>>34482338
Complexity is different from actual possibility. Wheels and tracks cannot armor the drive systems much without getting in the way and there will always be a significant gap since you don't want the wheel to rub against the hull.

It is "easier" to armor up a track system but it will never achieve the same level of armor coverage as a knight in plate.

>>34467602
.45-120 with modern powders. And then a tube mag levergun that can chamber it.

>>34467654
>>34474497
>.45-120 necked down to 5.45mm
Welcome to .45 EARGESPLITTEN LOUDENBOOMER.

>>34482310
Reducing the size of the robot would give it an even greater penalty to mobility for a given thickness and %coverage of armor, since the weight of the armor would decrease exponentially but the internal volume for things like batteries, hydraulics, etc. would decrease cubically. In reality, humanoid robot soldiers will likely not have too much more armor than conventional soldiers.

>>34482274
you're not going to have humanoid robots driving in a tank, you're going to have an autonomous tank. the robots are all going to be extremely specific, and their form will be decided by their function

>>34480183
Mass gives us most of the penetration actually. Take a heavy steel flechette (a few pounds) and launch it as fast as an arrow and see how much stuff itll plow through.

>>34482299
why would you decide on a humanoid soldier just for ladders, instead of making your model capable of climbing ladders? just that cheetah retractable hooks on its feet and a software update and it can climb ladders. humans are not the perfect war machine, and the fact we ride cars instead of run everywhere and use guns for killing is a testament to that fact

>>34482439
>and use guns
Cheetahs can't use guns because they have soft fluffy paws instead of hands, thus why we should build humanoid shooty robots instead of the metal version of stupid doggos. QED

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>>34482418
Having robots able to be transported in all the same ways as humans is a great benefit to humanoid robots. Extreme specificity isn't a good thing, you don't want one robot to climb ladders, one robot to shoot things, one robot to throw grenades, one robot to talk to people, etc. when you can just build humanoid robots capable of most things a human can do, plus more.
>>34482371
Notice all of the gaps in the plates of the Gothic armor, such as around the crotch, armpits, knees, etc. This is due to the complex joints of the human body, all sorts of ball, saddle, hinge, etc. joints which form the body. A tank doesn't have joints of that sort which introduce weaknesses, it only has holes in the armor which round things such as the turret, axles for road wheels, etc. rotate inside of, which are themselves armored so as to not actually constitute a hole in the armor.

>>34469864
Are we still talking about cartridges here?

>>34482474
>not pictured: the giant track assembly that is not armored
Hanging side plates can only go so far as well. Too far down and they will start hitting the floor every time the tank goes over a bump. Too far forward and it will interfere with the tracks when climbing up an irregular surface.

>>34475589
Dude, cyanide isn't even in the top 50 of most toxic poisons.

>>34482503
The tracks are made of thick steel plate with thick steel pins holding them to one another, the tracks ARE armor. Tanks actually have armored skirts in order to act as spaced armor to help protect the hull, since it is a relatively lightweight way of protecting the sides of a tank without adding excessive weight.

>>34482474
>one robot to talk to people
that doesn't require a robot, that'd be a human's job. that cheetah can climb ladders, shoot things, and throw grenades with the hardware. i'm talking about you have one robot for shock troops, another robot for sentry, etc. the only thing i can imagine humans being used for extensively is special ops where you may for example need someone to download files off a computer or something beyond just killing

>>34474283
.327 has something like 15 grains of case capacity, 5.7 has 14. I very much doubt it'll cause problems.

>>34467602

11.5x15mmR

>230 grain .45 caliber bullet in a widened. 22lr case
>in a integrally suppressed bolt action rifle
>all dat silent plinking

>>34482535
Having a half dozen different types of robot which each use equipment that neither other robots nor humans can use, that each also need specific parts and maintenance, would be a nightmare in terms of logistics and maintenance. If they can only shoot things, need strong supply lines and lots of maintenance, and can barely do anything else that a human or humanoid robot can do, then you'd be better off with light armored vehicles. The only kind of robots that would make sense in terms of logistics and maintenance would be fielding massive numbers of general purpose robots able to do almost anything a human soldier can do (which is a lot more than just shooting at people), and the only kind of robot that fits the bill is a humanoid on a human scale.

>>34480537
>>34474283
>>34473397
>>34482550

Ive considered this too but actually all you have to do is get the firepower up so it breaches hydrostatic shock threshold (get it up to about 1000 Joules / 700 foot pounds).

Also it wouldnt exactly be 8mm, look at the actual width of the case and subtract 1mm from it (and thats even if the end of the case is only 1/2mm thick).

>>34475396

7.62mm Tokarev is also an excellent one to beef up too. Again get it up to about .30 carbine level.

>>34475385
.45 Fuck You.

It's basically just .45, but with a 9mm-sized rebated rim. Kinda like .50 Beowulf, but for pistols.

>>34482554

Im thinking that you're talking about a shortened .45 case instead. Even a tiny bit of powder + primer is going to pop it out at 300-500fps. Should be pretty damn quiet with a suppressor, and still blow through a skull.

The problem is case capacity.

>>34467602
>5.5x67mm
>.22 caliber bullet in a .300 win mag case
>aka .22 eargensplitten loudenboomer kurz

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>>34475385
>>34478490
>>34482635
quick search pulls this up

7.62x45mm

5.56x51mm

>>34482647

No no

A .45 caliber case that holds a heeled a .45 caliber projectile with rifle powder for a complete burn. Also it's rimfire because reloading is for the gentile

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>>34482635
>>34475385

We do have the .40 super, which is a .45 necked down to .40 just to piss off the .40 people with enhanced performance.
> using a 45 platform
> because the only benefit of 10mm is a few more shots

>>34482675
7.62x45 has already been done
https://www.buffaloarms.com/ammunition/smokeless-ammo/metric-calibers/5-56-7-92mm/7-62x45-czechoslovakian-ammo-123gr-sp-spitzer-boxer-primed-box-of-20-amo76245?___SID=U

>>34482714

That looks like a fat .357 sig

>>34483087
it might well be called a .40 sig except it wasnt made by sig

>>34467602
Straight walled 30-06 with a rn bullet like a 9mm or tapered to 9mm

>>34482592
then make a system where the parts can be easily swapped in and out and control it all with software. still no reason to have a humanoid fighting robot. humans are slow and weak. give 1 reason a robot made for killing would be human shaped

>>34483207
If anything a killer robot would likely be best as a Centepede/Snake kinda thing, large of course.

It has a thin cross section to shoot, and it can store a large weapon or missile launcher in the "mouth" (or in the ass of it)

>>34479069
>>34480183
It's not speed/weight it's sectional density and velocity.

>>34482648
>.22 eargensplitten loudenboomer kurz

Nice

>>34483121
.375 h&h magnum short?

>>34483872
i doubt that. cheetas are much faster than snakes

>>34483207
>humans are slow and weak.
It sure explains why humans in wheelchairs make better soldiers than normal people. Legs are for the weak!

reliable caseless ammo with good ballistics and small enough so a weapon using it can be easily concealed

>>34468941
>reverse the helical direction so it can be a stock

Well helooooooooo jam-o-matic

>>34482648
>aka .22 eargensplitten loudenboomer kurz
Just call it Eargenboomer Loudensplitten

1. A longer, more powerful 10mm for carbines and light rifles. Sort of like a 9x39, but without the subsonic angle. Put another way, 30 carbine if it was 10mm and more powerful.

2. On the other end of the spectrum, I'd like to see a full power .32 pistol cartridge. Might end up being too similar to .357 Sig, though.

3. A powerful, punchy .25 pistol cartridge. Something like 7.62 Tokarev, but in .25.

4. Finally, .600 Nitro Special. All the fun of lobbing a .62 slug down range without obliterating your shoulder. More or less .600 Nitro Express cut down to ~1/3 power, and with a significantly shortened case.

>>34477096
Underrated post

>>34471034
Source?

>>34475385
That's called 9mm/.45 Hard Head.

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>>34467602

All I want is for the HPA to be passed so we can finally kick start suppressed ammunition research again and hammer down the price.

>>34475310
The poison doesn't need to be all that fast acting. we are talking about killing within five minutes. not five seconds. read the fucking pic.
>>34473250
^^implies the psychological aspect of the target's friends watching him die and being unable to help because medevac takes too long.

>>34479101
you can't suppress fluorine fires.