Proof that the army is choosing an inferior sidearm

Is this your first day looking into military procurement? Because it sure looks like it.

The predicted outcome

>>34462567
I understand that it is allways the lower bidder the one to take the contract, just pointing out the proof that it is not the better handgun

>>34462520
B.b.bbbut mud tests!?!!!

>>34462520
who gives a fuck?

the vast fucking majority of the army will never even be issued a sidearm

>>34462782
It is true, but the ones who are issued a hangun will get a lower quality one.

Also, I fell like the m17 is made to lower standars than the civilian models.

>>34462520
Army fucks up again, more news at 11.

>>34462520
L O W E S T B I D D E R
O
W
E
S
T

B
I
D
D
E
R

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>Army orders modular handgun
>Deliver five different fucking guns
>If you get shit inside them you can't disassemble them
>Charge more than competitors

Waaaaaah! Why Army no buy?!

>>34462782
Are you daft? A pistol is the one thing literally everyone gets.

>>34463298
It's bad when I can't even tell if this is bait.

>>34462599
>>34462994
>Lowest bidder
More like
>Best hookers

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>>34462520
there is no pistol in the world better than a basic bitch Glock. end of story. move on you sad Sig/HK/CZ/Beretta shitstains.

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>>34462520
Glock never stood a chance because Gaston is a stubborn fuck and his submissions didn't meet half of the requirements

You can have a 100% reliable handgun and you still won't win if you ignore all the guidelines

>>34462520
Except that Glock didn't fit the criteria for the Modular handgun the army wanted.

>>34463361
Honestly the submission requirements were fucking retarded. Sometimes you have to break the rules to win (see G41M/G41W). Nothing wrong with telling the customer they're wrong.

>>34463354
My USP45 would like a word with you.

>As soon as you un-brick your shit from a little mud
>Don't worry, I'll wait for your new backplate to arrive

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>>34462520
Only real niggas use Glock anyway. Foh mane.

>>34463393
>Nothing wrong with telling the customer they're wrong.

There is when we're talking about the US military. Good luck convincing them they need anything other than the design-by-committee retard-proofed shitbox they've drawn up.

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>>34463393
>Nothing wrong with telling the customer they're wrong.
Except the customer won't buy your shit?

>>34462520
>had a higher
>stoppage rate than Glock’s handgun

Well yeah, the Glock had a catastrophic failure out of the gate and the SIG lived on to have an opportunity to malfunction.

>>34463411
>is armed with MP7
>draws handgun

For why?

>>34463419
It's happened before. I didn't say they'd accept it, just that there's nothing wrong with it.
>>34463424
Well that's the risk you run when you're trying to sell something.

>>34462wha
what the fuck is wrong with the 19 one one? why they ahve to go and by a foregn gun, theres a better gun right here and it's been here for over a 100 years.

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>>34463409
>USP45
>meme gun
>meme caliber
>meme shooter

>Don't worry, I'll wait for your new backplate to arrive

Do yo get all your education from Ian? do you not realize the genius behind the plastic back plate of the Glock? it forsees the possibility of the gun locking up. so you can easily pry the plate off witout damaging the gun. if you are running a metal punisher plate you'll not be so lucky.

>>34463340
This man understands how sales guys work

>>34463428
Because he does rns and why wouldn't you?

>>34463491
>Because he does rns
wat

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>>34462520

Glocks could be the best gun on the planet and they still wouldn't be chosen because no manual safety and a higher price price point.
>But manual safeties are stupid and get you killed!!!
Maybe, but if you knew that kind of people that join the army you wouldn't trust them either.

>>34463679
>Glocks could be the best gun on the planet
>Implying they aren't

aye lmao.

>>34463617
The guy in the pic has Multiple Sclerosis bro, that is why he is holding the pistol tightly with both hands. Also why he has his face covered since he is a drooler.

If he tried to hold the MP5 he'd be shaking about so badly everyone would laugh at him.

Besides, neither is loaded they wouldn't give an MS suffered loaded guns. Legally they have to keep him on until his doctor declares him unfit, and under socialized healthcare the wait for that is like 5 years.

>>34462599
yep lowest bidder
http://www.guns.com/2017/06/26/sig-beat-out-glock-by-more-than-100-million-on-army-handgun-bid/

>>34463390
None of the handguns presented, but the p320, is modular in any other way other than having the backstraps, the army wasn't askimg for the chasis thingy, sig won because they made the cheapest handgun that would at least stay in one piece before the trial was over.

>>34462520
What would the best one be, then?

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>>34462520
Glock still booty blasted over their perfection losing.

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>>34463617
He does real nigga shit and can choose his weapon of choice for whatever the occasion calls. Dude just wanted his Block 19 at that moment.

>exetershit

1911 is still the best handgun ever developed, its been shooting nig nogs for 116 years. Also predicted 1 building inexplicably falling on 9/11 (wtc 7)

>>34462520
This isn't anything new, the military always chooses the shittiest option that werks, they are always bottom of the barrel.

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>>34465649
>1911 is still the best handgun ever developed, its been shooting nig nogs for 116 years.

>1911
>116 years

>>34463679
The version they submitted did have a manual safety dumbass.

>>34465181
Well at least they won in quality, as the disregarded reliability tests show.

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>>34462599
This is supposed to be a modular handgun trial and glock didn't do anything remotely modular too it, all it has is the changeable back straps. The sig is still more than reliable enough to do its job so are you honestly gonna tell me that being slightly more reliable is enough to justify spending another 100 million dollars on the type of gun the military actually uses the least? If reliability was the only thing that mattered the army would be buying pic related. The handful of secret squirrel operators that actually use handguns in close combat already use glocks anyway, it's a gsa item so they'll probably keep buying them. The difference is they'll get the regular one that's cheaper and doesn't have that stupid manual safety.

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>>34463393
Nothing wrong with it? Well I suppose glock will be enjoying its new contract then? If they were gonna make something that didn't meet the requirements anyway they should have just submitted a regular glock instead of a tweaked out one that costs more money.

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>>34463298
Found the high schooler.

<newfag looking into what to buy, what get?

>>34465908
Except it did

>>34466028
Again, tell me what is so modular about any of the handguns presented other than the p320, the FN 509 and the CZ P10C hare basic striker fired pistols with little inovation, just as the glock.

And besides, the frames on the m17 wont be user switchable, because the army doesn't trust the grunts to tinker with the gun, so only the armory will have the capability to do anything remotely modular with the handgun

>>34463451
Are you retarded or something. Capacity.

Why order sidearms if they're never issued to anyone but a few select roles? Can't officers just buy their own gun to jerkoff about?

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>>34468677
You're retarded

>>34468843
Because then half of them would buy a taurus and pocket the rest of the sidearm allowance.

>>34464228
>None of the handguns presented, but the p320, is modular in any other way other than having the backstraps.

Were you paying attention? What is the Beretta APX?

>>34468993
Is there even other size of frame avalible? At that point you can just as easily swap the trigger group of any of the other handguns in a new frame, it doesn't offer any modularity

>>34468957
I'm talking about paying for a sidearm out of their own income, possibly one that complies with already stocked munitions.

>>34469071
I think that some police departments do that, or something similar were they have a list of aproved weapons for service.

>>34462782
>who gives a fuck?
Eternally salty assblasted glockfags

>>34469071
>out of their own income

Then they would definitely buy a taurus.

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>>34469395
Sigfags on suicide watch

>>34463409
>Not a soldier's gun

>>34462520
Glock did not submit a gun that met the requirements. It's their fault they lost.

>>34470010
Can you point out what requirements it fail to met?

ITT: A bunch of idiots who've never actually worked with DLA/DoD

>>34470141
I'm not saying that they should get the glock, for the aplication that sidearms get in the army they will be just fine, I'm just pointing out how obvious it is and how little they care they are giving soldier inferiors tools to do the job in order to save money.

>>34468727
>implying your armorer isn't just an e4 grunt with that as an additional duty

I've never bought a sig, but even I appreciate what they've done with the 320 in terms of modularity. It's going to be much more future proof than the competition's proposed handguns, and I think that ontop of the money savings is the real value.

>>34462520
>Handgun
I never had more than a M4 and grenade launcher.

>>34469071
Because then the military would be less retarded. Can't have that. Neither can the grunts have the ability to bring their own hipgat if they reeaaaally wanted to; gotta make sure everyone is at least as dumb as the guy next to him.

>>34470244
This

I was a 240b gunner who was supposed to be issued a m9. Never even touched one until I got out. All the higher ups snagged the m9s so they wouldn't have to carry their "heavy" m4 to and from the chow hall.

>>34466028
>The handful of secret squirrel operators that actually use handguns in close combat already use glocks anyway
Yeah no they're using HKs

>>34470141
>didn't even go to phase two
>just automatically declared Sig the winner after failing to beat out competitors

Fuck off sigfag
https://youtu.be/dGI2H0EjDTw

>>34470431
Actualy the seals have sigs, hks and glocks in their inventory as the mk24(hk45ct), mk25 and mk27(g19) so I doubt they all use the same thing

>>34462782
Actually they seem to want to issue them at the SL or even TL level i think, some roles like Humvee gunner are finding it easier to go around with pistols.

not sure if true, just what i heard.

>>34470529
Looks like the m17 is a lesser gun than the civilian model.

Is this some kind of new strategy where the cool toys are in the hands of the civilians? Is sig the anti HK?

>>34463393
>nothing wrong with telling them they are wrong

When there is literally hundreds of millions at stake, when that government has seen your product before, yes that is a very bad, dumb thing.

This isnt "glock shows up and offers them a revolutionary design that challenges the industry" like it did in the 80s.

>>34470529
He seems to know a lot about the trials, does he provide sources? Is he a reliable source of information?

I dont doubt that what he says is true, just by reading the documents it falls in line with what we know.

>>34470748
Tell me how a hangun that reuses the frame of a DAO hangun, that flopped so hard people who play videogames know more about it than gun people, and thus have an obnoxious high bore axis, is an innovation in any way

>B-b-but muh triggee module

The army was not asking for it, they wanted different size grip, thats what the backstraps are for, and they are not even going to use that feature for the looks of it

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>>34462520
Obviously. Picking sidearm in 2017 that can't penetrate advanced Russian armors? Who are they planing to fight?

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>>34470958
>le bore axis maymay

>>34470958
I never said it was an innovation. but lets not pretend Glock is an "innovation" anymore. Glock lost because they couldnt reach the price point Sig could. Sig put forward a reasonable pistol at a cheap price, Glock put forward their design at a more expensive price.

I would like to see the test results though in full detail, for fun, but i dont care about Glock or Sig in any capacity.

>handgun
>accuracy
We call that "operator error".

>>34470669
That's what 'military grade' means, cletus.

>>34463354
Except H&K p30 is more reliable and more ergonomic. Also sexier and has actual sights not plastic placeholders. Paddle releases are just as fast as thumb, are ambi and won't be accidentally engaged. Light LEM = single action with a lot of Takeup, still less likely to nd than a glock as well


Holy fuck you glocktards are faggots

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>>34470987
>physics are a meme

>>34471181
Ergonomic does not mean "feels better in my hand."

I wish you retards would stop using words you don't fully understand. And I'd like to see where the P30 is objectively more reliable than a Glock.

Don't get me wrong. I'm carrying a P2000 right now and my 19 is sitting at home. But I view them as equals and in fact if something were to happen at home I'd reach for my 19 first. The P2000 is just more comfortable to carry. I love both of them.

And I actually thought the P2000 felt better in my hand than the P30 and was easier to conceal.

>>34471181
>reliable
proof?
>ergonomic
subjective
>sexier
subjective
>sights
true
>paddle releases
subjective, also the paddles are more exposed and prone to breaking
>LEM trigger
I´m not competent enough to handle a striker fired handgun without shooting myself

>>34462520

https://youtu.be/dGI2H0EjDTw

Even Chris Bartocci is pissed

>>34471369
Sig must be in bed with someone realy important, they gave them the contract pretty much without testing it, and remember that the FBI made a RFP made to fit the P320 ( and even then they weren´t able to win when glock presented a gun)

>>34471409

That's all I think it could be

>>34471409
>pretty much without testing
>12500 rounds
>90%+ reliability

>>34471470
>shoot 1,500 rounds through the compact gun
>lol good enough XD

>>34471482
Retarded, butthurt, or troll?
YOU DECIDE!

>>34471470
they didn´t even conducted the second part of the trial, 125000 rounds is nothing for a weapon that is going to be in army inventory, not to mention that all those rounds where fired in ideal conditions, endurance test in adverse conditions where left out.

pls sigfag, your handgun is a subpar product made to the lowest standards in order to fulfill a contract made to fit the specifications of that handgun because other they would not have a chance of wining, as the FBI trials have already prove.

>>34471528
I'm actually an HK fanboy, new Sig blows and Glock wanted over$100,000,000 more for an identical preforming product.

I'd rather that money go to something useful like aircraft than a gun that is never getting used.

>>34471569
In that I can agree with you, but I dont think the glock is an identical performing product, neither do I fell like sig is going to be able to deliver at that low price after knowing about the steyr lawsuit for the patent infringement and all the problems with their handgun.

>>34471521
>retarded
Not testing the compact SIG is retarded
>butthurt
you bet I am.
>troll
standard meme tone means I'm always trolling subtly even beneath a substantive post

>>34471528
And even if that were the case, glock still doesn't have a contract. Stay assblasted lmao

>>34471595
A positive potential outcome would be the Army forces Sig to fix emerging issues on their dollar and the gun advances into a mature weapon just like everything else in inventory did.

There will be a few generations, the first two will suck, in 2069 we will be bitching about abandoning the finally perfected Sig for some new hotness. That's how small arms works and it would have been the same way with the Glock. This just saves money on the process.

Also, Glocks attitude towards holding their design close to chest probably made as much an impact as their price demands. The Army wants a gun they can have every company in country cranking out in the event of war, Glock would throw a fit if S&W made their design to fill a WWIII sized demand.

>>34471731
That doesn't change the fact that the p320 is a POS that the company pushed forward into a suspiciusly fiting contract and only manage to win because the testing wasn't conducted properly and they are in bed with someone important

>>34471775
That is baseless as fuck.

>>34471797
Maybe there is no proof that sig is in bed with someone, but the report does state that glock performed better, and this contract as well as the fbi one, are just blatantly fiting to the p320

>>34471832
>the report does state that glock performed better
Both firearms preformed at 90%+ reliability over almost thirteen thousand rounds. They are both good guns, the Glock is probably a little better, a little better is not worth $100,000,000.00

What exactly is wrong with the Sig? What flaws or specific reliability issues are you talking about?

>>34471871
As >>34471369 stated with that video, there has been problems with barrels and frames, but since the testing was never conducted we cant know the extense of these problems.

The p320 is an allright handgun, but this is the me m17 and looks like what you get when you cut corners making a p320

>>34471936
The M9 had failures for the same corner cutting reasons. They will happen, they will be fixed, in the end we will get a mature weapon just like everything else in inventory. This is how procurement works and a non vital weapon like a pistol going through this isn't the end of the world.

You need to stop thinking as a civilian CCW carrier

>>34471992
True, still, it stinks that the full extend of the trials werent conducted

>>34472032
Agreed, but everyone needs to take a breath.

Look at it this way, we know what a Glock will do, those Sigs are about to get grunt tested, we will know every crack and weakness.

>>34472058
I hope its not another m45a1 millions in a contract for guns that ended up craking just to have another contract with glock months after the firts one.

>>34472091
>I hope its not another m45a1 millions in a contract for guns that ended up craking just to have another contract with glock months after the firts one.
My glock boner can only get so erect.

>sig had one more stoppage in 10,000 rounds
>this means the Army should pay 50% more for the glock brand glock

>>34463428
because when you shoot someone 15 times with 9mm they tend to get the message and understand that they are dead. with 4.6 you generally have to shoot them 30 times, have your 3 squaddies shoot them 30 times, then send them a text for them to understand they are dead. it's even worse than 5.7 which has become maligned for similar reasons.

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>>34472116
>Pulling numbers out of your ass
>Ignoring the rest of shady stuff arround these contracts

>>34472116
>>34472177
Stop arguing, read >>34471992 >>34471871 >>34471754

Everyone beeds to calm the fuck down. The Glock is a more mature gun, it is probably better, it doesn't matter. Tge Sig will get matured through subsequent models abd serve just fine.

>>34462520
Because an acceptable level of loading reliability and accuracy might be good enough since there are like 17 pages of other features they want.

I mean what a shock why would they want a new weapon with features not on the market instead of a 40ish year old design they could of picked already? Shocking.
Thanks for the link though

>>34472226
TFW the 2020 m17a1 and 2030 m17a2 programs will end up costing more than the original glock offer

>We'll pay for this
>Taxation is theft

>>34472258
It's easy to win when they make the rules to fit you