Seoul Artillery defense

No.

And they turned down an offer to buy Iron Dome batteries.

>>34457369
They don't have C-RAM, gun or missile based.

>>34457369
They refused CRAM. ROK civies are terrified of scary gunz and anything military. Which is utterly baffling considering the males have mandatory conscription. So no military anything anywhere near Seoul special economic district.

Also consider the amount of CRAM guns it would take to get a 90% reliability rate for the entire zone.

>>34457491
Iron dome is jewish bullshit. Koreans were smart not to waste billions on kike jew shit

>>34457369

Norks have regular artillery aiming south, not missiles and its a LOT of guns. No point preparing to defend it.

>>34457369
How do you defend against gunfire?

>>34457491
There's no feasible radar system that could keep tabs on literally 10,000+ artillery rounds in the sky at once. An AESA can only form so many guided beams at once, and tracking that many targets at once without real time position tracking doesn't seem possible.

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>>34457369
>CIWS
>for protection against artillery
ehhh

>>34459381
Why don't they just put an AEGIS destroyer on land and move it close to Seoul and mount an F-35 on its mast. Both are supposedly capable of tracking thousands of targets.

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>>34459390
>>34459381
>>34459354


There has been C-RAM for years now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_Rocket,_Artillery,_and_Mortar

You fuck tards.

Having said that, the amount of artilleries is going to require an insane amount of C-RAM to counter. So why bother?

Wouldn't they run empty in a couple of minutes?

>>34459467
The sky above Seoul will literally turn from day to night under the shadow of the DPRK's artillery shells. You can't fucking defend against that, not without potentially setting off nuclear warheads in front of the dethcloud.

>>34457491
The iron dome gets over loaded by too many bottle rockets from the West Bank.

It's so expensive to effectively counter it that there is no reason to bother, I think they're more worried about being able to disable them if war actually starts.
I'm no expert but that seems like the smart course of action, instead of wasting billions on stopping 40-50% of the projectiles and still getting rekt by the remaining, I would rather spend these bilions on airforce and my own missiles to rekt em quicker than they can rekt me.

I might misunderstand what CIWS does but i don't think there's any defense of thousands of pounds of lead.

>>34457369

I'm sure they have some basic defense limited in scope to areas immediately surrounding certain secret locations where important people will be during the attack. When the Norks start indiscriminately shelling Seoul, one or two shells might head toward these locations, and the CRAMs we never sold them *wink*wink* will kick in and do their job. The rest of Seoul will be fucked.

But this is only to buy them time so that we could bomb the shit out of North Korea and hopefully make them call off the attack or whatever.

>>34459161
This.
The Koreans know that they can't just snap their fingers and milk $200,000 of monopoly money out of the economy whenever someone sends a scrap iron pipe mortar grenade over the wall.
Fucking kikes

>>34460950
>When the Norks start indiscriminately shelling Seoul
do we really know if they will attempt to glass seoul or not? doesn't it make more sense to hit military installations?

>>34460968

Well yeah, but once they're done with those they would move on to other targets. My old platoon sergeant was stationed at North Korea and they knew that if North Korea were to attack that they would take the peninsula in a matter of days. Their orders were to blow up a bridge to slow the enemy movement and then lob as many mortars into a pass as possible before running into the forest, engaging in guerilla tactics and surviving until reinforcements eventually arrived.

So after bombing the military installations into oblivion, the Norks would move on to other targets, likely government ones.

Icarus needs to be a thing, melt the little pricks from space.

>>34460969
>My old platoon sergeant was stationed at North Korea
i'm guessing this means the DMZ

> and they knew that if North Korea were to attack that they would take the peninsula in a matter of days.
i don't buy this.

Seoul does have a load of bunkers and other artillery shelters to be utilized in the event the Norks snap, however their only real defense would be combined ROK and US counter battery fire.

They can't fucking -reach- Seoul apart from the outskirts, you fuckwits know that right?

>>34461027

He said they had a map with estimates on where the North Koreans would be within 24, 48 and 72 hours, with the last being the southern part. Maybe he was bullshitting me, but he sounded serious. Maybe we have better plans and capabilities these days than he had back then, or maybe those maps were based on 70's,80's era intelligence, and nowadays we could load up bombers and fly them over within a day to bomb the shit out of the Norks and slow them down.

>>34461054

When is *then*?

Norks do not have the logistical capability to blitz the south. Not the entire thing.

>>34461065

I think he said he was there in the mid-90's.

>>34461070
Then he was full of shit.

>>34461054
What year? Because from what I've heard until the mid 1990s that was totally true.

>>34457369
hidden gundams

>>34461073

He didn't seem like the full of shit kind of guy. Was quite the pain in the ass to work with, no-fun-allowed kind of guy. But maybe I'm wrong. If any other mortar-men, or Armyfags in general, on /k/ have been stationed on the DMZ I would love to hear their input. Were there any timetables on the North Korean advancement in the event of all-out war?

>>34461081
oh never mind. Interestingly enough I took an uber with a Korean yesterday, he said the same thing in regards to being attacked by the DPRK. now he says he'd be surprised if they make it to the northern Seoul suburbs.

>>34461104
meant for
>>34461070

>>34461098
>on /k/ have been stationed on the DMZ I would love to hear their input. Were there any timetables on the North Korean advancement in the event of all-out war?

Now you are a larping faggot trying to get actual faggots to break opsec.

Fuck off.

>>34457369
>CIWS
>artillery
Good luck with that. You can shoot down rocket artillery and mortars at apex... shells in terminal descent? I think not.

>>34457369
Is it not Seouls problem if they get shelled?

I'm sick of their, "We no fighty fight!" attitude.

>>34457369
Can Pyongyang protect itself against swarms of cruise missiles?

>>34461122
LETS PLAY FILL IN THE BLANKS!

C-RAM STANDS FOR...

Counter-Rocket,_____,Mortar.

>>34461165
"and"?

>>34461195
WRONG!

>>34461165
not
>descent stage artillery shells numbering in the thousands

>>34461165
artillery

>>34461165
nigga what do you think is gonna happen to a 200 pound artillery shell already about to impact the city if you just shoot it a bunch? it's not like the rockets and mortars where it will explode and be disabled and just fall out of the sky, it's gonna keep going and still do a bunch of damage. yeah it will likely detonate the high-explosive warhead in the shell, but you still have a huge shell flying at a populated city. Then multiply that by like a thousand.

>>34461165

>I can shoot one projectile moving at a right angle to me with acceptable accuracy. Therefore I can shoot a million projectiles coming directly at me simultaneously.

Is /k/ full of military appropriations salesmen or something?

>>34461011
Dumb name for space installation unless you're shooting down planes from space.

>>34461256
It will explode.

Do you think artillery shells are inert?

>>34461098
most NCO's who are a pain in the ass to work with are generally dirt bags who are incapable of being a decent human beings or actually accomplishing anything in life.

>>34461214
>>34461256
>>34461262

>if C-RAM cant defend against a million artillery shells it cant shoot down artillery shells


Ahhh, i see the brainlet brigade has arrived.

>>34461358
>my IQ is so low, I forgot that the context of this discussion is defending Seoul against DPRK artillery barrages.

>>34461365
>my brain is so shriveled and shrunken from years of neglect that i fail to realize the entire "artillery" part of the discussion stemmed from >>34461122 which was talking about the capabilities of C-RAM

Its ok, not everyone can have normal IQ

>>34461138

What is the consequence to me if Seoul gets leveled?

>>34461358

>My autism rendered me unable to grasp the context of the discussion. I instead chose to laser in on the supplementary question of whether it was possible to shoot down an artillery shell on its descent.

>>34461446

>My shrunken headcase thinks its autisim to correct somebody who thinks it cannot shoot down an incoming artillery shell.

Typical of a brainlet, when wrong call the other guy autistic.

>>34457369
What are the Nork's artillery systems? Are they guided missiles or are they just a bunch of, like, Howitzers and mortars? How do you defend against howitzers and mortars?

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>>34461469

>Trying to save face this hard

You can admit you fucked up, no shame in it. Go look at the original statements, he is clearly talking about the shells in the aggregate, not a single artillery shell.

Protip, do you want to know what tipped me off?

The fucking plural.

>>34461522
>he is clearly talking about the shells in the aggregate,

>C-RAM cannot shoot down shells in aggregate if it cannot shoot down millions at a time

The brain shrinks evermore.

>>34461165
"Ass"

>>34461376
>my IQ is so low I forget the contents of OP's post when I read other posts, losing context each time I do

>>34460969
>once they're done with those
>implying they would last more than a few hours before getting crippled by the technologically superior South Korean and American military

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>>34461750

>my brain is of such an inferior state that i cannot understand that a thread can deviate from the OP, nor can i understand that people cannot make statements in a rhetorical vacuum.

TFW i have to explain such base concepts to you

>>34461953
Listen buddy, it's not our fault you're a dumb as a chatbot.

>>34461344

No, he was just a hard ass that demanded perfection. He was an excellent NCO, a terrible "friend". Day to day one prefers to deal with the friendly NCO, but I would rather go to war with someone like him. Me and him got along, since I was fit, knew my job and didn't have to be babysat.

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>>34462012

>Ur dum becuz ur right

yfw

>>34461165
>accurate

>>34461165
"Anti-"

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>>34461165
>apoplectic

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>>34461165
>adjoined

>>34457369

With the volume of fire they'd be receiving from the North in the event of a shooting war, defense systems would not save the city.

We're talking about the single largest rocket/artillery force on the planet, with conventional, chemical and biological munitions. And a great deal of it is pointed directly at Seoul.

There's a reason the Americans don't just do surgical strikes out of nowhere to destroy DPRKs ability to launch or take out their power grid or something.

Even if you did all of that and completely defanged them as far as nuclear arms go, they would still be able to level Seoul with conventional weapons that could not be destroyed in time to save the city from serious damage. They also have to worry about the nearly 30,000 u.s. personnel in the area who would also be at risk. Millions of people all in all would die in a very short span of time.

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>>34461165
>assisted
?

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>>34461165
>attracted

>>34460919
Artillery wouldn't be very useful if the rounds were just football shaped pieces of metal. They have explosives in them.

>>34461037
If their missiles can reach the continental US, their artillery can reach Seoul.

>>34462404
>If their missiles can reach the continental US, their artillery can reach Seoul.

Hmmmmm, based on that logic the US, whos missiles can reach any point on the planet, should have much longer ranged artillery...

but yet....they dont...

Myth busted.

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>>34459495
>So why bother?
Reduce incoming fire?
Better then nothing,I guess.

>>34461097
DUDE... shhhh

>>34461138
>>34461389
No really?

>>34461011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva_Star

the fire rises

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No point in attempting to defending a small portions of the northern outskirts from ancient artillery with a 40% or higher dud rate. It's not C-RAM you need, this is an EOD problem.

There's really nothing that could defend against that amount of artillery. Maybe in 50 years there will be a huge amount of lasers and radars that can track every shell coming over, but right now there's too many shells to ever hope to defend against. If shit went down with NK right now, Seoul would be done. NK would be defeated, of course, but that's a lot of repairing to do for after the war.

>>34463363
>adults are talking

SK is currently developing magnetic force field based technology to protect the city.

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>>34461165
America?

Protecting huge ass city like Seoul against 2000+ artillery projectiles is impossible.It's much better choice to focus on real threat like NK's ballistic missiles.

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>>34463343

Which is money better spent on offensive systems that can locate and eliminate artillery positions. Or more accurately, money better spent by relying on American response.

If a full CRAM system for Seoul costs 100 billion dollars (I have no idea how expensive it is) but will only catch 20% of the incoming fire why not just dump 200 billion dollars in counter-battery capabilities and ordinance for planes to drop bombs?

That all being said, I think the ROK has run the cost analysis and 20,000 dead civilians mostly in Northern Seoul suburbs is not worth the investment in defense. A sizeable number of North Korean ordinance is expected to be duds as well. DPRK Artillery positions are expected to be BTFO at a relatively fast rate and their logistics chain will be disrupted pretty damn fast. A first strike barrage will be devastating, but not enough of the potential damage can be mitigated to make the investment worth it.

>>34457369
Guys? Look at a map. Seoul is out of range of all but a handful of Best Korea's longest-range artillery pieces, and even those are really only a danger to the northern suburbs.

In order to demolish the city, they would have to pull their artillery batteries out of the caves, and haul them right up to (or in most cases, beyond) the DMZ. Which would make for a target-rich environment from the air, compared to the whack-a-mole if they stay in their caves.

The serious threat to Seoul is not shells, it's battlefield rockets, like the Frog, which have a far, far smaller "throw weight" than the massed artillery. However, they could make up for the weaker volleys by using gas, which would result in massive damage from the outright panic that it would cause (gas is fairly ineffective at killing people, but excellent at causing panic and forcing the targeted side to waste time and resources dealing with it).

One reason that VX may have been used in the recent assassination may have been to pointedly remind the South that they can make their own NBC, and have lots of it.

>>34460968
It's vengeance.

The DPRK knows it is utterly fucked the second the war goes hot again. they cannot win barring direct Chinese intervention, which would be unfathomably stupid for China.

At any rate, the economic damage from a bombardment of Seoul will have long lasting impacts against the Americans, longer than killing a few hundred US GIs might.

So, all in all, lets view a likely chain of events...

>Opening salvo unlikely to be completely unforseen, the DPRK could launch it under the guise of a field exercise or following some catastrophic diplomatic fallout
>ROK counter-battery focuses on priority targets, like the longer ranged arty that CAN hit Seoul
>DPRK meat-grinder ensues, with a poorly equipped infantry slamming into the most defended border of all time. It will end horrifically for most DPRK troops
>Tunnels used wherever possible. real tossup if Blue team intel is aware of this or not, as sat resources may be focused on DPRK proper
>DPRK magdumps on Seoul with what they have
>Stocks go into free fall world wide, like 9/11 on crack
>Dud rate (1/3 or so) means EOD now gets to play Robot Commander for some thousand ancient arty shells in suburbs around Seoul. this could actually slow down Blue team advances into the DPRK and the WMD hunt if civies are priority.
>US and China try to politely NOT start a world war and posture

Basically the DPRK has strength for one decent blow and cause as much havoc as possible for about 1 day, maybe 3 if they can get some spec ops with MANPADs or explosives in to shoot civie planes or Columbine/OKC places or whatever, but the outcome is written in the stars already.

>>34467181
>infantry slamming into the most defended border of all time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2RaWSZjJ4k

North Korea being able to rain artillery on Seoul is a myth.

>>34466927
Thank fucking god SOMEONE actually fucking bothered doing a cursory Google search of Nork artillery and then mapped that out. I fucking swear the amount of summerfags who come in and claim the norks can glass Seoul completely unimpeded and invade increase every year.

>>34467967
It amuses me the last patch of untouched land left in the region is because it is so completely stacked with high explosives.

You could probably employ millions just trying to clear the damn place

North Korea cannot inflict significant damage on Seoul with artillery unless they use chemical weapons.

>>34467967
here come the engineers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXjbKzWNEqM

>>34457369
>>34466927

Exactly, the nork "we'll turn Seoul into a sea of fire with artillery" is really little more than propaganda. And it seems to be pretty effective.

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>>34460969

>>34461011
>>34461276
Wasn't the opening strike of Icarus to melt the nearby ROK airbase?