Would an SMG be a bad idea for a primary weapon in SHTF? Like,

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I've been questioning this also. In shtf body armor probably won't be common so pistol calibers would be effective in theory
>inb4 lol 9mm

>>34455279
intermediate carbine would be better

>>34455279
It'd be all right as long as you're aware of the limitations of trying to use any pistol cartridge past 100m or so. But I think that the money you would spend on a proper MP5 would buy you quite a lot of carbine.

>>34455279
I mean, you have to realize that most people would have full-caliber rifles whereas you'd be stuck with something with somewhat limited application. There's a reason footsoldiers aren't generally issued with them. It's great at CQB but pretty shit at range.

>>34455279
>afford
Yeah better not violate the hughes amendment after the total collapse of government
..?

>>34455279
Probably. Having shot a real MP5 a few times, they offer advantages and disadvantages. They're tiny and lightweight, almost like a toy to me. They shoot smooth and controllably, and would be completely acceptable in a scenario where you don't envision having to shoot past 150m. Downside being that it's still a pistol cartridge, and I'd MUCH prefer a good AR or AK. But if your plan is bugging in your house or whatever, you do get a remarkable amount of dakka in a babby-sized package. And since 9mm ischeap, you can afford to stockpile/train easily
>>34455341
I think he means
>Afford to buy one now
>???
>SHTF/Habbening
>Oh shit, all I have is my fucking rad MP5,how fucked am I?

>>34455279

I wouldn't recommend Full Auto in SHTF, It's way too wasteful, especially since most of the time you'll either just be shooting at people to scare them off, or you'll be dropping them in a couple of shots.

SMGs/Pistol Calibre Carbines wouldn't be too practical for anything beyond Small Game. For general purpose, a Intermediate Carbine would suit you much better.

>>34455279
Weight of 9mm per 100 rounds 2.63 lbs
Weight of 5.56 per 100 rounds 2.69 lbs

I'll take all of the benefits of a 5.56 carbine/SBR for that slight increase in weight. In a SHTF scenario, you will more than likely have to kill your food with your primary. You really want to trust a pistol caliber to drop a deer at 100 yards? Plus there's the added benefit of being able to pierce all soft armor with a 5.56 rifle.

Only real benefit of the MP5 is the controllability on full auto and quieter when suppressed.

>>34455629
>Weight of 9mm per 100 rounds 2.63 lbs
>Weight of 5.56 per 100 rounds 2.69 lbs

Is this true? That's pretty interesting if it is.

I know SMG's are an outdated concept, but I have such a hard on for the MP5. One of these days I'll get a select fire MP5K to satisfy my fetish.

"""SHTF""" can mean anything from innawoods survival to police state to riots to foreign invasion.

The answer will likewise range anywhere from "pretty bad" to "pretty okay"

>>34455850
SMG has advantage of easier concealment, more power/range than normal pistol. And in a SHTF situation any gun is better than no gun.

>>34455899
True, yes. But pistol rounds are still pretty garbage at stopping threats and an SMG isn't nearly as concealable as just a standard pistol. In most (read: MOST) SHTF situations a CCW would be better. In almost all SHTF situations a carbine would be better.

>>34455661
its true
dont forget your standard 115,124,147 gr 9mm is double 5.56 weight of 55 or 62 gr

>>34455279
I'd love one in my prospecting kit once I got settled. Clearing deserted buildings with an MP5 while I strip small towns of cigarettes, gold, and other valuables would be legit.

Until then, you can't really beat an intermediate cartridge.

>>34455829

SMGs are only outdated when armor is a thing, and realistically people don't wear armor all that much, and even when they do its only a small square that protects their torso.

>>34455279
Define SHTF

>>34455279
Non american here, for whatever my opinion is worthy. An SMG is an Excellent weapon for a SHTF/civil unrest situation.
>Easy to put in a bag and deploy
>Can carry lots of ammo.
>Can share ammo with pistol
>9mm will kill people dead.

>>34456102
You should be in summer school

>>34455279
>would be out gunned in most combat situations
>lol combat
>would be much harder to conceal in public situations over a pistol

Not a whole lot of benefit desu

>>34455279
there is a reason the military and police don't use smgs any more. We can have small light weight rifle caliber weapons with controllable recoil now.

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>>34456209
>there is a reason the military and police don't use smgs any more.

wat

>>34456240
>being this poor

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>>34456148
You should be gassed.

SMG in 10mm or .300 when?

>>34455629
>I'll take all of the benefits of a 5.56 carbine/SBR for that slight increase in weight
Like more noise, recoil and flash from the same barrel length?

>>34456679
Have no guns
>zero flash
>zero noise
>zero recoil

>chinese gong
If you kill your enemies they win??

>>34455279
This OP >>34455434
Depending on the scenario you find yourself in an MP5 would work. If you just planned on bugging in your house,bunker or any other tight space it would be one of your better choices. As long as you had enough stored food or at very least a rifle that could take down game you'd do fine with an MP5 just hanging out in your house.

>>34455279
I just shot and MP5 in that exact configuration (collapsible stock, surefire grip) as well as an M4, both full fun.
The first thing I noticed was how controllable the MP5 was dumping mag after mag in full auto compared to the M4. The M4 rose off-target after 3 rounds, while I could consistently hit with the MP5. If your SHTF situation calls for controllable, accurate fire at close range, the MP5 reigns supreme. However, the M4 is very versatile for longer range shots.

>>34455279
Why carry a sub gun when you can carry a mk18 or some SBR style carbine in a rifle caliber. Loaded mp5 mags are just as heavy as a loaded PMAG

Even better a side folding AK74u

>>34455279

As long as you realize that:
Past about 150m your bullets begin to fall out of the fucking sky, meaning range estimation extravaganza 9001.
9mm sucks on body armor unless you can get actual AP ammo as well (and get close)
You might actually be able to carry the same amount of ammo with less weight using a 5.45 or 5.56 gun instead.

Overall its not that its a bad option, it's still a sewing machine that kills shit...but there are better options now.

>Shooting looters with a full retard mp5
Sign me up

If you live in an urban area I think an MP5 or other full-fun SMG would be a completely adequate and excel in many situations.

OP in a city environment I'll take an MP5SD5 over an AR anyday.

In a small-town or outdoor area the AR

If you're defending an urban location with plenty of ammo the smg would be good, but for innawoods stuff, it's pretty pointless compared to a full rifle..

9mm wont work in case that you need to go long range shooting or using against body armor.

Inter/heavy cartridge is better

By then you are gonna have a rifle round in a small rifle. Basically its a carbine instead of an SMG.

At best the P90 would probably work just fine

>>34456209
ummm please go do some research before you say untrue things

>>34457254
>Why carry a sub gun when you can carry a mk18 or some SBR style carbine in a rifle caliber

because 5.56 SBRs have crummy ballistics

>>34457681

>Implying shitty 5.56 ballistics aren't still better than 9mm

This may be a surprise but there are other loads in 5.56 beyond M193 and M855.

>>34457723

yeah and they're like 60 cents a round.

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>>34457681
5.56 in a 7 incher is better then a 9mm out of any gun.

Also an SBR 556 without a suppressor is totally going to shit your hearing out, next if someone is rolling around with an MP5 I can simply move back past 200 yards and pick them off with an AR-15 and ACOG or aimpoint.

>>34457838
>Also an SBR 556 without a suppressor is totally going to shit your hearing out

yeah and that can defeats the purpose of your short barrel and will still be loud as fuck, also who says 9mm can't go to 200-300m in a pinch? also who says you can simply 'move back'?

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Honestly, I think it all depends. I think a lot of it depends on if you're with a group and if you are with a group, how that group is set up. If ,say for instance, you've got a five man team with one RTO, let's say a guy with a semi-auto beltfed, and three rifleman or some shit, then giving submachine guns to the RTO and the Machine Gunner is a good idea. For the RTO it lightens their load and for the machine gunner it gives them a weapon that's not just a sidearm and so they can effectively engage the enemy if something happens to the belt-fed. I think submachine guns could do well in a SHTF scenario, but it's all really dependent on your group as well as what your loadout is. I like 7.62x51 mm battle rifles over 5.56x45mm rifles so a submachine gun would fit perfectly for those in my group who have other duties like carrying a machine gun or a radio. It would also serve well as an urban weapon or a weapon used in tight quarters.

>>34455279
>Would an SMG be a bad idea for a primary weapon in SHTF? Like, if you could afford a legit full-fun MP5.
No.

>>34457864
>still be loud as fuck
Not for me, I'll be wearing earpro. But for the other guy, a mag dump is like setting off 30 flashbangs.

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>>34457864
Someone never owned a can before. @ 200 yards shooting 9mm 147gr the bullet takes a life time to get to the target vs a SBR in 556.

9mm can be stopped by level 3ABA while 556 blasts right pass the same BA.

9mm is good when you are either a poor fag or SWAT trying to not kill friendly people near an area.(not a fucken war zone.)

Sub guns are out dated due to the fact a 300BLK SBR loaded with sub ammo can fill the role of an MP5 that has the hitting power of a 45acp with longer range then be loaded with full sonic loads for a full rifle role.

I'm sorry you sir are no NFAAF but 90% of the failed logic in this thread is a ton of garbage and a joke, Factual. (And yes pictured is my guns)

>>34457672
ummm
Go suck a dick nigger faggot

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>>34458076

>>34455279
why not 9mm AR, killing two birds with one stone

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Why don't people carry an SMG and a DMR instead of just the one generic ass jack-of-all-trades AR15 rifle? come on different tools for different jobs people

>DMR (think AR10)
>can outrange and out-firepower most 556 shitters
>308 STOPPAN POWER
>muh accuracy
>slap a good 3-12 scope on it and you've got the ultimate mid-long range gunfight device

>SMG
>may take suppressors better
>better for clearing rooms than a rifle because:
>it's smaller
>less recoil
>it's lighter could be lighter depending on SMG you have

what do you think?

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>>34455279
PTR32P converted to SBR. I'd use 20 round Korean surplus mags in it.

>>34460142
Wait, that one's a regular sbr, hold on...

>>34455629
Yeah, no.

>NATO 9mm standard
> Standard bullet weight is 7.0 grams (108 gr) to 8.3 grams (128 gr)

>M16A2 (1972) - 5.56×45mm NATO -190 gr (12.3g)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO#Ammunition_capacity_for_weight_comparison

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum

>>34460103
Weight and cost
Two guns means twice the weight and twice the money. Also, messing with two different types of ammo is not fun for logistics.
More efficient and cheaper to just issue an intermediate caliber. It might not be as good but you're trying to maximize performace while minimizing cost

>>34457254
>AK74u
kys

>>34460170
your post can simply be translated to
>i'm a poorfag who can't hike for shit

>>34460170
Nigger you're going to carry 2 types of cartridges, one for your rifle and one for your handgun anyway

so you might as well replace the rifle with DMR and the handgun with an SMG and you're good to go

as for weight, man the fuck up and learn to ruck you whiny pissbaby

Talking about semi-auto pistol caliber carbines for a sec, I really like the idea of a handgun and a long gun sharing ammunition and magazines, makes shit really straightforward logistically. Like, Glock or Beretta mags as a standard does seem reasonable on paper.

It isn't as capable as an intermediate carbine, but I can see utility in something like a 92FS / PX4 with a CX4. Going with Glock 17 format mags lets you pick from a bunch of carbines. The 5.7x28 stuff is built around this concept, but lol.

Probably slants more toward "shoot at a close-range target until I can run" for the average person rather than being able to do everything, which is a problem. But it's a neat concept.

I have a shameful hard-on for Vectors though, so I am definitely biased.

>>34455279
Yes, it would be a bad idea.

SBR's turned SMG's and especially the MP5 into Safe Queens/Range Toys.

>>34460197
>poorfag

We're talking about entire countries that are outfitting their armies not weeds buying a rifle or two with mommies money.

>>34460215
>just carry two rifle-sized guns at once/specialize people into weapon roles
>its already two types of cartridges

You don't know what the purpose of a handgun is do you? Or the reason why the cartridge is smaller than a rifle's? Do you want the extra requirement of training with TWO rifle-like weapons at basic and being good with both or would you rather just git gud with one that does both jobs(dropping a pistol for an smg is retarded in any event)equally well? Do you want to to carry an 11lbs AND a 5lbs gun together? Do you want your military's budget to fall apart because your demanding TWO whole rifle-like guns to be issued to most of your troops? Can you imagine the magazine management for that shit? "Just man up and carry both" there goes moral out the window.

>>34460170
Logistics indeed. Its good to know that not everyone here is a 12 year old.

Size is a plus since its small but caliber is not great but not many people have body armor. Personally I'd prefer AR pistol because you get size and caliber in 1 package

>>34455279
SMGs fell out of military favor first because they lacked range and second because body armor became common.

Bullet technology recently has advanced again and some 9x19 variants (Especially Russian) require a NIJ level 3 vest to stop, something that'd beat a 5.56 as well, so they make a return, alongside PDWs, into close quarters police and spec ops work.

Issue is, you as civilian either do not have access to such rounds or they're expensive and are not renewable in SHTF scenario.

IF you stockpile a lot or SHTF doesnt last too long AND you're in Urban area or even bug in, SMG will behave better than short carbine. Don't listen to morons praising SBRs, especially AKS74u, which is hated by every single person who had to fight with it. Even Russians are saying good bye to it and adopting AK-105 and PP2000 in it's place.

Another often overlooked benefit of SMG as self-defense weapon is that, thanks to very low kick, compact size and low weight, your wife or child can make use of it to defend themselves if you get injured/killed.

>>34460685
>We're talking about entire countries that are outfitting their armies not weeds buying a rifle or two with mommies money.
>Do you want your military's budget to fall apart because your demanding TWO whole rifle-like guns to be issued to most of your troops?
>Do you want the extra requirement of training with TWO rifle-like weapons at basic and being good with both or would you rather just git gud with one that does both jobs
OP is talking about SHTF, not what you'd issue an army
are you retarded?

>Do you want to to carry an 11lbs AND a 5lbs gun together?
learn to fucking ruck pansy

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>>34460142
I like the big brother.

>>34455279
If you live in an urban are then yes, it's a good choice. If you live in a rural area then it's not such a good choice. I have an AR9 (glock mag version) as my go to long gun with a G17 as my sidearm. I live in a city so it makes sense because in a SHTF situation I'm more than likely not going to be taking any shots longer than 100m.

>>34455918
FMJ 9mm will shoot straight through someone at "indoor" ranges.

>>34461381
Fudd shit

>>34455279
Can't hunt with it and you'll run out of ammo in a jiffy. In an urban environment with plenty of ammo stockpiled it'd be the shit, but you'd have to shoot up your entire neighborhood.

>>34457838
>5.56 in a 7 incher is better then a 9mm out of any gun.

I'll take "things that aren't true for $1000" Alex

>>34461427
What's not wrong is that FMJ is a dogshit bullet for anything but practice

>>34460159
he's right, you're reading your sources wrong.
>Standard bullet weight is 7.0 grams (108 gr) to 8.3 grams (128 gr)
that's bullet weight. Just the bullet, not the entire cartridge. The only time actual cartridge weight is mentioned is with the light-grain bullet Russian overpressure ammo.
>M16A2 (1972) - 5.56×45mm NATO -190 gr (12.3g)
That's overall cartridge weight

see pic for cartridge weights
>9mm
>12.6g
there are lighter loads but those are with 50gr and 80gr bullets which suck dick, not typical 115gr-147gr bullets.

>>34456148
fuck are you talking about? You need to differentiate between bullet and cartridge weight as well

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>>34461671
derp forgot image

>>34460089

a 9mm AR IS an smg.

>>34460756
>your wife or child can make use of it to defend themselves if you get injured/killed.


why wouldn't they have their own guns

>>34461481
Correct

Just get a fucking good 12ga and have multiple loads for different scenarios brehs

carry one gun

use for every purpose

what is not to like seriously

>>34461833
What use is any load besides buckshot or slugs? There's birdshot but I wouldn't waste my time hunting bird if SHTF, not enough calories for the time. The rest are meme loads like flechettes and dragons breath.

>>34461918
>buckshot and slugs

wtf else do you need? lol

I would take some birdshot but only for if it basically walks across your path and you might as well bag it for the protein

>>34462255
if that's the only useful variety that 12ga offers then I'll stick with 5.56.

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Pcc thread? Pcc thread. They are fantastic. Buy 11 of them. Full size/rifle caliber rifles are better for a lot of uses. Just know what you want.