>nitriding is harder and more durable than hard chrome When

Can you back up your claim? I'm interested in learning.

It impregnates the surface... The black coating doesn't mean shit...

>>34454480
Nitriding/QPQ/melonite = Parkerizing 2.0

Chrome= much harder wearing than any case hardened steel, adds lubricity and corrosion resistance

>>34454525
pros and cons?

>>34454470
its just the simplest way to achieve a decent case hardening m8...

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>>34454470
>TiN coatings on drills are worthless.

Jesus christ, maybe stop buying drillbits from china, some of us have actually set foot in a workshop before.

>>34454536
Chrome pros: tough as nails, totally protects steel from corrosion which is why cerakote doesn't do their cute little salt chamber test against hard chromed parts

Cons: supposedly less accurate because it is a surface that has to be applied post machining.

>tfw no 12.9 steel grade guns

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>>34454470
Order some real drill bits and the coating won't wear off.

>>34454470
>>34454525
You're wrong faggot


>Chrome lining a barrel is an additive process. The barrel is submerged into a liquid solution and an anode is run through the barrel. When electrically charged, the chrome then bonds to the inside of the bore, adding material to the bore. Chrome has excellent corrosion and abrasion resistant properties, but only coats the inside of the barrel. To protect the outside of the barrel, a phosphate coating is typically added. MIL-SPEC is manganese phosphate, which requires oil to provide excellent corrosion resistance on the outside of the barrel.

>Instead of adding material to the bore, Nitride treats the existing steel by imbuing nitrogen into the steel itself. This is done through a gaseous plasma or a liquid salt-bath and there are various nitrocarburization processes depending on the use case. Nitride treats both the inside and the outside of the barrel and does not require any oils to provide the best corrosion protection.

Which is more accurate?

>Both can be precise, but Nitride will always be more accurate all things being equal. Nitride “locks in” the bore, chrome will add material to it. Chrome providers have gotten very good at this over the years, the adhesion of chrome is not perfect and there will be a small degradation in accuracy, though it may not be noticed.

Which has longer barrel life?

>Assuming both are 4150 steels and shot semi-auto (even spirited semi auto), we have found both have very similar round counts before we see degradation of accuracy. If firing cyclic full-auto fire through extreme duty cycles, chrome will have an advantage.

Which has better corrosion resistance?

>Nitride, but given enough time and exposure, Nitride will corrode as well. Nitriding barrels provides a massive gain in corrosion resistance, but no process is 100% rust-proof.

So, which is better?

>Neither chrome-lining or nitride is a better process than the other, they are excellent processes for specific purposes.

>>34454470
>TiN
>Worthless

I make cutting tools for a living and you would not believe the difference in tool life TiN makes. It's not meant to be a hardcoat, it's there to add lubricity. 95% of TiN applications that you would be exposed to are happy homeowner ching chong specials with shitty geometry that promote tool wear and poor quality Vapor Deposition. I've seen the best coating machines China has to offer and they aren't worth a shit.

>>34454743
this is a good post personally I see it as for precision type shooting meloniting is superior, but for volume AND rate of fire chromeline is superior.

Hard chroming is the shit for things besides barrels too because it's nearly impervious to any form of corrosion and has such high lubricration properties and slickness.

I'd take a chrome bolt over some half ass nitride one any day. Same goes for barrels- the practical difference in accuracy is nonexistent for anything besides target shooters.

Nitride is nice because it's cheaper and easier.

It it possible to chrome line a nitrided barrel?

>>34454770
Nothing a can of drill chill won't fix, you're saying.

>>34454807
proper meloniting increases the lubricity of a barrel substantially, not as good as chrome but the net gain in accuracy is worth it. hence bench shooters using it over chrome lining. Also chrome line is super strong but brittle and can crack, and then the barrel is fubar? correct me if I'm wrong.

>>34454770
>I make cutting tools for a living
Hey coincidence: I'm in the market for a drill index, do you have any recommendations for a brand?

>>34454829

Probably but it would have zero benefit since the nitride is under the chrome you doofus.

>>34454895
But that's the idea, hard chrome backed up by hard nitrited steel, retard strength corrosion resistance!

>>34454470
>>34454798
>>34454807
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDjWgqNr1rofTThmwzi7jqP4Q8KXT2gX6

>nitride
1.25" groups after full auto stress test without POI change

>CL
3"+ groups after full auto stress test with POI shift

>>34454829
Yes but why? You're covering the hardened rifling with chrome.

>>34454971
>>34454916
think he meant nitriding the chrome lining? not sure how it would bond / change the chrome... probably ineffective considering its not a common practice

>>34454594
Shit nigger.
>Leave that motherboard alone and step away from the hard drive.
>Drop the soldering iron!
>Drop it!
>He's resisting!
>[gunfire]

>>34454525
Yeah isn't parking like the easiest Finish to apply though.

Like wise chroming is on the more expensive and difficult side.

>>34454860
Currently Dewalts index has the best flute geometry which is more than making up for the mediocre cutting end in tool life. That's more suited for production. If you're doing hobby stuff, get a decent Chicago Latrobe set to last you a long while. If you need something cheap and surprisingly good, get an interstate or Cle-Force. They are ching chong drills but they do decent. Don't get anything marketed as W-4, the only W-4 anybody gets is mediocre chinese junk. M2 can be hit or miss, the material all comes from chinese mills now but at least it's usually the right thing in my experience. US made Cobalts are almost always going to be good, but you have basically one or two manufacturers still making Cobalt Jobbers stateside.

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>>34455052
>>34454743
>>34454807

>Chroming more expensive
>every third world AK has chrome-lining

>>34454743
Thanks for explaining.

>>34455052
hes completely wrong though, nitriding is pretty amazing for a bunch of applications including barrels, and unless you're turbo mag dumping or firing a shitload f/a you're not going to benefit from chrome lining over nitriding.

>>34455122
on that same note chrome lining isn't bad at all its not simply black and white, they are both pretty amazing desu.

>>34454860
You need a full index of Norseman drill bits. The superior multi faceted grind is evident over the Harbor Freight/Dewalt/Milwaukee (they are all the same) peanut gallery

>>34455172
>multi faceted grind
I don't what you think you're on about but the norsemans we test are always burnt to shit, they run them too fast. Any decent split pointed drill will perform about the same.

>>34455098
i think it's more expensive in the USA because of all the toxic waste it generates. Meanwhile in China or Russia they just dump hexavalent chromium straight into the nearby river and just deal with the birth defects etc.

I don't think there's much doubt that CL barrels can be as accurate as the best of them as manufacturers like Criterion can attest. It's just that it requires lapping after plating...which is hard as fug because chrome is so hard to abrade...which is why it's an ideal finish for hard wearing surfaces...like gun barrels.

>>34454923
The CL barrel is probably just getting broken in now. Basically it's now mil spec accuracy.

>>34454743
>does not require any oils to provide the best corrosion protection
>will always be more accurate all things being equal
>provides a massive gain in corrosion resistance
It sounds a lot like for casual shooting Nitride is better on all fronts save for "extreme duty cycles", but >>34454923 shows it outperforming chrome, so what gives?

>>34455559
If you watched the Q&A in that playlist, the owner of Faxon Firearms says the military went with CL because it loses zero gradually, while nitride will maintain zero until it reached a point and suddenly start keyholing.

You don't want to be G.I. Joe and your barrel starts keyholing and you had no advance warning

>>34454594
nothing makes much sense in that pic
>that machine has never been turned on because the coloring on the end of the hot air gun is silver and not discolored and purple-ish from heat
>he'd be burning his damn fingers off holding it there while it's on
>you don't desolder and pull capacitors from the top you retard, also, a cheap butane torch works 1000x better than those cheap hot air guns since it burns that solder loose almost instantly, and without heating everything around the target because it takes so long and so much heat gets dispersed before anything breaks loose
>why are you even bothering to fix a main board that so damn old it has IDE cable connections that's clearly from a ~2000-2004 dell computer
>why are you trying to repair a hard drive like that?
>the way that drive looks on the inside looks like it's from an equally old computer with maybe a 20-40gb drive, it's 2017 m8

>>34455652
Ah. That makes sense.

>>34455700
>missing the point
there's a common theme with shutterstock photos

>>34454470
Nigger I make drills and endmills for a living and the regrinds come back with the coating intact. Not sure what kind of trash drills you are buying.

>>34454470
tries to make a point. doesn't bother to say TiN.

>>34455652
bullshit

>>34454470
>gold on drills

Thats TiN coating you fucking pleb and it makes a big difference between cutting with that than the high speed steel underneath

>>34454525
>adds lubricity
Hahahhaha

Also totally depends on the material being nitrided and type of wear.

Chrome lining is superior.
NItriding is just cheaper, which is why you see so many shilling videos posting cherry-picked, stacked-deck or one-hit-wonder data showing a nitride bore outlasting a chrome one.

Buy chrome, buy once.

>>34454470
>Black nitriding is as worthless as the gold coating on drill bits that always gets rubbed away the first time you use the drill.
You have been using drill bits wrong your entire life.

So apparently TiN has a Rockwell hardness of 90 RC. That's downright nuts. Why isn't TiN generally used in rifle bores? Seems like such barrel would be pretty much impervious to wear.

http://www.ptonline.com/articles/know-your-mold-coatings

>>34457463
And then the chrome starts flaking.

>>34459164
Shit, why don't we just use TiAlN

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>>34454470

>>34459607

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2002/gun/waterfield.pdf

Holy shit it's true. At least back in 2002.

>>34454594
>we wuz elektrishuns

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>>34459626
Thanks for the dtic pdf.

>>34454470
The gold coating on drill bits is usually a chromate coating to prevent premature deterioration while still retaining edge quality. I have nothing more to add to this conversation.

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>>34459164
A few have done this. I have never had anything chromed or nitrided, but I am guessing cost has a lot to do with the absence of most PVD coatings on long gun barrels.

Triarc Systems comes to mind, and Rainier is now offering a few barrels with TiN extensions.

For those interested, PVD coatings can be applied over light nitriding or carburizing.

>>34459222
Why the fuck don't we cut barrels out of diamonds?

>>34459935
Brittleness.

However, that diamond chrome lining in the link looks mighty attractive.