Why Chinese submarines could soon be quieter than US ones

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http://m.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2098986/why-chinese-submarines-could-soon-be-quieter-us-ones

Rim driven pump jet propulsion.

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>>34444534
Commander of the PLAN Wu Shengli holding the umbrella for a rear admiral, Ma Weiming.

He's pretty much China's Wernher von Braun these days.

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>>34444547
Chinese EMALS is his work too.

>>34444510
china has really grown in the last 15 years
from using mig15 clones in the 90s to 5 gen fighters
from using ww2 ussr destroyer copies in the 90s to biggest and most powerful destoryers in the world

>>34444510
>new Integrated Electrical Propulsion System (IEPS)
> new
the royal navy has been using this since 1973

besides rim driven propulsion is far far far less efficient than a regular pump jet, and is probably easier to detect with MADs because they will be less shielded than an interior motor

Red October, basically?

>>34444705
Not at all.

Don't ever stop, ChiComs. You're always good for a laugh.

>>34444705
Yes, caterpillar drive basically is a pump jet - just that in the novel it is MHD while this is EM-driven shaft less propellers.

>>34444510
Shorter version,
'Gibs mony for programz'-Ratheon and friends

>>34444534
This is fucking retarded.

The fluid dynamics on this thing would be a fucking joke.

>>34444629
>1 yuan has been deposited into your account

>>34444703
this.
this shit aint new

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daily reminder that china is a cargo cult and they will never build anything worth worrying about.

>>34444703
China's 12k ton coast guard cutter and a few other also use IEPS. This here is new since it is for a nuke sub.

>>34445800
If you googled a little bit you would see that rimless drives aren't new (tho for submarines they are) and have superior fluid mechanics, with far less cavitation and noise.

In fact, murrica wants to use them for the next gen Columbia SSBNs as well.

>>34445893
>This here is new since it is for a nuke sub.

Tell me logically how every nuke sub is not IEP.

>>34445937
because the chineses and russes are still using steam driven shafts.

>>34445967
I refuse to believe. There is no fucking way

>>34445906
>In fact, murrica wants to use them for the next gen Columbia SSBNs as well.

Wrong. They will use propulsors like the virgina class, or go full pump jet.

>>34445981
Akula class technically has two small retractable electrically powered props for stealth, but only provide 5knts.

Yansen is just an upgrade of the akula
>>34446002
pump jet confirmed

I believe ohio is steam driven given it Shaft horse power.

Virginia was the first pump jet in active US service

In some respects even the USA is a decade behind the british in terms of subs considering the brits started using them back in 1974, and the US started using them in 2004

I believe they're still classified after that astute nearly beached herself there was a hoo-ha about security over imaged of the pump jet drive so they put a cover on it

>>34446049
>Virginia was the first pump jet in active US service

Not true, as the sea wolf has a classified secondary propulsion method that's most likely pump jet.

>>34446080
I believe it was just a motor driven prop, but supposedly upgraded to pump jet.

Reason being many sources state that virginia was the first pump jet in service.

I wouldn't be surprised i jimmy carter was built from the go with a pump jet and kept on the hush

I'm somewhat curious as to what the brits received in return for giving pump jet tech

>>34444510
>>34444534
I hate this blatant shill tactic of putting links in the second post. Fuck off forever.

>Still building manned submersibles
>PLA Navy ‘way ahead’ of US
That's a good joke you've got there.

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>>34444510
>>34444534
I see China finally got The Hunt for Red October in their theaters.

>>34446199
DVD bootleg

So who'd they steal this invisible sub tech from? Because we all know china doesn't come up with their own shit. Communists have no souls and as such are incapable of creativity.

Tchyna grow strongah!
[Brand new infrastructure crumbling in the distance]

>>34444510
so this pice of shit could be nuking us??

fuck why doesn't usa just use a special camera system to watch the seas??

>>34444510
>Why Chinese submarines could soon be quieter than US ones

because they will be sunk to the bottom of the sea

>>34447818
>fuck why doesn't usa just use a special camera system to watch the seas??
Gee, I wonder why nobody's ever thought of that before.

>>34447871
conservatives were probably too stupid to figure it out

this is why we need more educated progressives in the military

>>34444510

>bragging about your top secret submarine tech and how it works

Am I being rused?

>>34447818

We used to listen to it, look up SOSUS network. Supposedly it's gone, I assume replaced with something better.

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>>34444510
Wow you finally made something interesting, meanwhile plans for US Ohio class prop has been available for 30 years and, nothing?

its good to have innovative opponents

>>34444510
thank god that USN already deployed bistatic/multistatic sonar

>>34444510

What the fuck is with those dive planes? Why are they offset at 45 degrees

>>34444703
>since 1973
on what ship?

>>34444510
*cough* old tech not really "invisible" does not matter if you can't control the other sound generators in your hull.

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>>34444510
IT'S OVER FOR DRUMPF

Interesting, but can they make the pumps for the reactor quiet?

>>34448449
swiftsure class

Quite possible, for some reason the USA has ignored permanent magnet motors on naval vessels. A large direct drive coreless outrunner type motor would be largely silent. The generator can likely be run off the turbine without any need for reduction gearing.

Producing permanent magnet motors is pretty much one of Chinas favourite past times, they won't have difficulty with it.

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>>34444629
Yawn, does it matter? America spends 540b. China spends like 131b on their military. We spend more than that on maintenance.

>>34450460
"Yawn, does it matter?"
*Old person gets raped by pavement ape*
" America spends 540b. China spends like 131b on their military"
*veteran dies of easily curable disease*
"We spend more than that on maintenance."
*ship sinks after being nudged by cargo ship*

>>34452013
Dont' forget another half million anchor babies are born every year
Plus another million or two foreigners arrive

*shrugs*
Time instead to spout old memes to hide the fact our marxist rulers have led us to the brink.

>>34450460
They pay their personnel 4k a year vs 40k here. If they payed their soldiers the same they would be spending as much as we do.

>>34444510
Hey congress

our billion dollar toys just aren't good enough

we have experts that say so

they say we are going to get killed

you need to give us another 43 trillion tax payer dollars so we can make new submarines

>>34454195
Can do buddy.

As soon as the DEFCON level is at a certain level, wouldn't we start actually using active sonar and easily detect these subs if they were near our shore?

>>34444510
I'm no expert on naval engineering, but I can guarantee that I know more about it that even the most senior Chinese "expert", and I can tell you that they are literally 50 years behind the US.

>>34448903
>Get mad when niggers use dick rethoric
>Uses dick rethoric
Wigger

>>34444629
They grow on the backs of others outdated works without any real ground breaking innovation of their own. Always playing catch up.

>>34454382
That's true until it isn't.

All of the surrounding infrastructure for innovation are growing in China e.g. a burgeoning middle class, improving higher education services, increased interaction with the wider global community, levels of funding from central government, agglomeration of high tech industries and experts etc.

>top naval engineer

>>34450460
Yes but how much do you spend on extremly expencive projects like f-35 lcs etc. And chinas economy is already larger then usa so there armed forces budget wouls only grow

Does it even matter though since the whole point of subs these days is leveling continents?

>>34454747
You know what hasn't been growing? Crossover between academic R&D sites and production. That's what powers serious tech development (look at Germany) and stabilizes it, and China has never had much of it.

There's also the 4:2:1 problem - China's economy is unstable, which isn't bad yet, but when the population crash hits it will come into play.

Then there's the /pol/ genetics question. Asians are smarter than whites, but they are decidedly not more creative.

>>34444534
US subs propellers so classified you never see them
China puts theirs on the internet
Hmmm

>>34454935
>Crossover between academic R&D sites and production
I can only speak anecdotally, but I've known quite a few Chinese post-docs go from universities over to private companies.

The entire Western hemisphere has demographic problems looming, and importing swathes of low skilled workers isn a recipe for success.

As for creativity, without being Chinese (or having a very in depth understanding of it), and having access to their cultural history, I don't really think we can cast aspersions on them as a whole. We can't appreciate Lu Xun, Cao Xueqin etc. on the same level as they do, no more than they can appreciate Chaucer or Joyce as we can.

I think people often overstate the threat China currently represents (it sells papers), but to underestimate them is outright dangerous, especially if you naively think that they will never become a threat because 'Asians aren't creative'

Looks like the Russian Alrosa

>>34444510
>In reality Chinese submarines are the loudest by far
lol

>>34450460

America spends 4x per items than the Chinese does on 1 and has a far larger standing military in terms of wages.

China is also increasing their budget this year.

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>writing "PLA Navy" instead of PLAN
PLAN sounds so cool

>>34446169
>sic semper tyrannis
I see they hired a teen to design their logo.

> asians aren't creative

Tell that to the crew of the USS Arizona!

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>>34455250

>>34444510
>Top naval engineer says new propulsion system will put PLA Navy ‘way ahead’ of US
>meanwhile, China is desperate to acquire Russia's Gen 4 aircraft engines, because China can't into engines for some reason

BUT ITS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THIS TIME GUIZE.

>>34450214
Electric drive is still lossy. Geared turbines are still best for power.

>>34446146
A reach around

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>>34454974
Wrong http://ogleearth.com/2007/08/microsofts-birds-eye-view-catches-navy-propeller/

>>34455092
The culture is just very rooted in tradition. And being sticklers for tradition can hamper some free thinkers.

But the biggest problem with the chinese military is experience.
And while there's going to be a lot of people who will gleefully post that the US combat and operation experiences against shit tier countries do not count, you're forgetting that logistics still had to move shit from one place to another. Medical care has been talked about a lot on how field care has evolved a lot since 2001. People who had to run shit during the various small wars still got their feet wet in doing so outside of practice and have probably encountered things they'll never encounter in a controlled simulation.

Look at WWII, just the way the US Navy ran their damage control on their ships and carriers was markedly different than Japan's, mundane shit most people find boring and overlook in these argument. You can bet the chinese navy will need a good bit of time to troubleshoot procedures and putting systems in place on their ships because they sure as hell ain't copying that shit.

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>>34444629
In the 90's, the US showed in Iraq just how easily it could roll a large, but technologically outdated, military on the other side of the planet on their home turf. China realized all the poorly equipped and trained peasants in the world would amount to jack and shit in a real war with the West.

>>34460210
>The culture is just very rooted in tradition.
You could say much the same about Japan, but their Confucian roots haven't exactly scuppered their attempts at producing new technology. Plus China has been through nearly 70 years of Communism, which hasn't been that keen on preserving any of the 'olds'. I'd say that the major impediment for China still, is corruption, but that's a feature of all developing nations, and one that will gradually subside as they grow wealthier (although I do wonder how ingrained a certain type of cronyism is to Chinese culture).

>But the biggest problem with the chinese military is experience.
In terms of fleet action, engaging other naval forces, neither has the US. Obviously the USN is much more aware of the capabilities and applications of their equipment, and years of exercise puts it ahead, but China will be doing the same as they launch their new toys. Think about the RN (long established, and very well provisioned) and the IGN (newcomer with a lot to prove) at Jutland, both big, and almost totally unproved until the big day.

And the Chinese may look to cut their teeth on smaller opponents first to gain experience e.g. have a little pop at the Vietnamese.

>>34460468
I doubt it will come down to armies engaging each other, like in Iraq. China has a clear focus on exerting it's dominance in the Asia Pacific by way of sea, as does the US. As boring as it sounds I think the US's energy would be better encircling China with diplomacy, and bringing the nations of SEA together under US leadership (America is a part of the Asia Pacific after all), because as China's fleet grows, US naval options in the region will concomitantly shrink.

>>34444510
I agree, they will be much quieter, completely silent.
Once the wreckage has settled on the sea bed after catastrophic failure of some electrics that we're wired up by dip summ at the end of a 18 hour shift

>>34454935
>Then there's the /pol/ genetics question. Asians are smarter than whites, but they are decidedly not more creative.
We're becoming increasingly non-white though. They don't even need a military build-up. They just need to wait us out until we're non-white enough to get steamrolled.

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>>34460210
>And while there's going to be a lot of people who will gleefully post that the US combat and operation experiences against shit tier countries do not count

Admits only experience US has is against shit tier countries.

>>34462121
As compared to what?