Law Enforcement vs Military Tactics

End the drug war and you end 95 percent of gun related crime. Switzerland did it, and
If you havent been to switzerland to calmly notice that even tho it is a nation full of automatic weapons it is one of the worlds safest most beautiful countries, then your a shit eating pig faggot from the dea.

File: duterte.png (613KB, 534x711px) Image search: [Google]

613KB, 534x711px

You know what to do

>>34444022
if we did that then how would we keep all those nigger locked up?

File: Bane_1.jpg (398KB, 1831x2000px) Image search: [Google]

398KB, 1831x2000px

>>34444120
We simply grind them up and feed our dogs with them.

But seriously, there are plenty of cities where law enforcement has proven ineffective/incompetent for decades. Many cities have been dangerous for as long as anyone remembers. All it would take is the implementation of tactics that have existed for millennia.

>>34443711

It's called non-white countries.

Asians and a couple of arabs being the exception

>>34443711
So Chicago?

File: chicago nigger gang.png (322KB, 547x318px) Image search: [Google]

322KB, 547x318px

How would one starve a city like Chicago of its resources? Its not cut off like NYC is, where you could simply block/destroy its bridges.

>where generals have successfully come into a city, killed all of the males and rebuilt a shitty society from the ground up. Would this work nowadays?

You're a fucking idiot. Now many of those generals wore the uniform of the nation they were pacifying with your 'kill 'em until they're good, and if that don't work, kill 'em all and start over' retardation?

None, dipshit, none. That's how many. It's the same number of women you've fucked.

"Illegal and immoral" are the words you're idea is countered with. It's both an illegal and immoral order.

You know what would actually work? Ending the drug war and massive cuts in the welfare state that destroyed the traditional nuclear family in most black but also many white and Hispanic areas, giving rise to the street gangs responsible for most violence who survive off the drug trade.

But they don't want to do that because Conservatives have made their name on 'law and order' and make a profit off the prison-industrial complex. Liberals aren't going to do it because those welfare types are their base.

>>34444022
I would listen to your podcast sir.

File: blog_violent_crime_six_large_cities_2.jpg (79KB, 598x355px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 598x355px

>>34443711
American law enforcement has largely done a bang-up job reducing the violent crime rate over the last 40 years. LAPD in particular.

File: dragging-animal.jpg (128KB, 800x592px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 800x592px

>mfw trying to become a cop in a failed war like city

>>34443711
End the drug war seriously allow junkies to buy their heroin at the pharmacy watch all the money flow into your coffers and the violence between dealers die down

>>34444929
>But seriously, there are plenty of cities where law enforcement has proven ineffective/incompetent for decades

not really...and in those that kinda sorta are it's pretty much just a resource issue.

>>34443711
>We have seen urban pacification take place throughout the millennia, where generals have successfully come into a city, killed all of the males and rebuilt a shitty society from the ground up.

when did that happen?

File: 1495293146515.jpg (98KB, 760x960px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 760x960px

>>34444022
> end the drug war

It's all too easy to say this, but I've yet to hear a politically digestible solution on how we convince police and prison unions to drop their opposition along with the millions of American's who are believe we are morally obligated to lock up and confiscate property from anyone who so much as smokes a joint.

Just to keep it /k/, there is probably a very high intersection of people you also need to convince that suppressors and automatic weapons aren't nearly the threat Hollywood has portrayed as well if we want the NFA or Hughes amendments passed.

File: AspenPoliceDept.jpg (175KB, 800x605px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 800x605px

>>34445280
>>mfw trying to become a cop in a failed war like city

ugh, why? it's one thing if you grow up there but why in all the fucks would you do that instead of joining a nice comfy mountain-town police force?

>>34445263
Causation vs correlation, my man. Going to be very tough to suss out if policing, abortion rates, or lack of lead gasoline effecting kids was the major contributor to those falling rates.

>>34445283
your podcast too...I wish to listen to it.

>>34445331
I grew up close by and my moms from there. Plus my grandfather drove an ambulance for the city and my uncle was on the job there so I guess continuing that.
> nice comfy mountain-town police force?
That does sound pretty comfy, anon. But i'm young and stupid and finishing college and not looking to for Mayberry just yet. Maybe if I make it to retirement.

>>34445346
He's basically regurgitating "Chasing the Scream". It's not the most objective piece of non-fiction written, but it was interesting.

>>34443711

any of those cities would not be a major American one. perhaps some small hick town gripped by meth and heroin and other epidemics or a cult or something with corrupt local law enforcement, but major cities are too visible for that shit.

and really even those small hick towns only exist in fiction.

and no, military intervention would only increase the level of violence.

>>34445337
yeah it definitely wasn't one factor, but I'm sure law enforcement reforms of the early 90s through early 00s helped.

>>34445337
Likely a combo. Add to it Roe V Wade creating a kind of eugenics program and mandatory minimum laws locking up large numbers of criminals in their prime child fathering years.

>>34445312
Never. He's talking out of his ass. Especially if he thinks such a thing *ever* happened in a nation where the military was purging it's own citizens like that.

>>34445400
A researcher with access to the data could check if smaller towns, many still not using those techniques, saw similar drops in violent crime from 1990-2000.

>>34443711
High-crime is a result of counter-cultures. For example, the majority of inner-city blacks/hispanics have a very strong, several generation deep culture that despises everything that mainstream American culture has set forth to succeed.

1) Education
2) No children out of wedlock
3) Having a stable, steady, legal job
4) Treating others with respect

Because those are vehemently rejected within high-crime areas, they become incompatible with the rest of society, and those that live there find the only thing they can fall to is crime itself.

The answer is, of course, a heavy police presence, with heavy handed tactics, and harsh sentencing (Read: The War on Drugs), as well as community policing.

Essentially, the police need to be absolutely ruthless with criminals, even for seemingly mild offenses, but very friendly and sociable with the general public, letting them see the two sides.

This whole "Just end the drug war" shit is beyond stupid, do you seriously think a hardened criminal, someone who's been involved in crime since he was 10, someone who's been in and out of the system, who HATES the system, is magically going to take a job at Walgreens and be a good person?

>>34445552
>This whole "Just end the drug war" shit is beyond stupid, do you seriously think a hardened criminal, someone who's been involved in crime since he was 10, someone who's been in and out of the system, who HATES the system, is magically going to take a job at Walgreens and be a good person?


Too late for them. Not for the next generations. When you can't sling rock on a corner and make just as much as that Walgreens job and crash at one of your half dozen baby momma's who is pulling down a welfare check and living in government housing, things will change.

Besides, what's the difference between the war on drugs and prohibition? You have do-gooders using the power of government to dictate how others can live. And the aims of those do-gooders have failed miserably, creating instead a massive criminal enterprise, a heavy handed law enforcement response, and a massive prison-industrial complex.

>>34445552
what's a criminal?

>>34445552
>Essentially, the police need to be absolutely ruthless with criminals, even for seemingly mild offenses, but very friendly and sociable with the general public

sadism doesn't have an off switch child...

>>34445621
Certain drugs, like Marijuana, Mushrooms, and LSD I agree with legalizing. They're non-habit forming, they don't make people violent, they can't really get anyone killed unless used wildly irresponsibly.

Heroin and other opiods? Horrific, and the people who sell them need to be punished harshly for it.

Crack, Meth, Coke? Have you ever seen what they do to people, and what people on it do to others?

K2/Spice? Bath Salts, even?

>>34444929
What's the next step in your master plan?

File: coke-head.jpg (20KB, 259x306px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 259x306px

>>34445761
>Coke? Have you ever seen what they do to people

helps geniuses change the world?

>>34445109
>Chicago of its resources?
if chicago had resources it wouldn't be so shitty

>>34445732
whatever the state says it is

File: kike.png (772KB, 777x437px) Image search: [Google]

772KB, 777x437px

>>34445761
>have you seen what people on coke do to others?
>doesn't mention alcohol
okay, statist shit eater

>>34445883
Legality of one thing that is bad for you should not be used as the basis of making more things that are bad for you legal.

>>34445109

Turn off the water and power and stop the truckloads of food from rolling in. At the height of summer it will be less than 24 hours before people start dropping like flies and resorting to cannibalism. In winter, possibly even less. Even if they strike out to forage their vast numbers will insure that nothing they find will stretch far enough to support them, this leads to infighting and still more casualties and it's not like there wouldn't be armed roadblocks to turn them away anyway.

File: women don't revolt, men do.jpg (613KB, 2020x2244px) Image search: [Google]

613KB, 2020x2244px

Occupy city
Remove weapon
Make them eat sugars and fill their water with birth control pill -sourced estrogen
Introduce them to TV and the arts

They will become as women. Women are too passive to commit crimes en masse. Same with revolts (unless they are schizo's like Joan of Arc).

>>34445761
Nothing you do will prevent people from selling them. Nothing you do will prevent people from using them.

Better to have people who will form an addiction no matter what you do remain functioning in society and pay their vice tax to the state to offset any damages they may cause.

For a similar model, consider cigarettes and the amount of lung cancer cases we offset with cig taxes.

>>34445761
All those other drugs you mention are already illegal and that doesn't stop anyone who wants them from getting them, and doesn't prevent any of that damage you mention.

Those laws do allow politicians, the news media and others to create boogymen that always need to be solved with more public resources, more laws, more enforcement powers, more, more, more.

And there's nothing about legalizing *any* drug that will legalize theft, violent acts, or any of what the pro-war on our civil liberties disguised as a war on drugs that will *never* be won, regardless of how many prisons are built, SWAT teams created, wire taps authorized, etc claim will explode if drugs are legalized.

File: baltimore.jpg (85KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 640x480px

READ UP FAGGOTS

Genghis Khan vs the City of Nishapur

Successfully quelled and conquered and properly subjugated: http://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/genghis-khan-murder1.htm

This can be easily applied to a shithole like Baltimore.

End the drug war both nationally and internationally. This takes the money and power out of gangs and other transnational criminal groups, and will drastically cut down on the Negro crime problem, the illegal immigrant problem (central/south america is fucked up in no small part due to the drug war), the border security issue (take out all the incentives to transfer drugs across borders, and the number of people crossing borders illegally goes DOWN A LOT), and there'll be much less traffic stops and no-knock raids and policemen will be safer.

The drugs won, and all the war on drugs is doing is aiding and abetting and, effectively, subsidising an overwhelming majority of the criminal activity and lawlessness that happens in our inner cities and across our borders.

The drug war as the US wages it (nationally and internationally) is not compatible with a safe and harmonious US.

File: Bane_TDKR3.jpg (49KB, 470x706px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 470x706px

>>34446204
>end the drug war
Yeah, I'm sure the average Baltimoron will magically be converted to a normal, nonviolent human being if gangs didn't exist.

Most violent crimes are committed by the druggies themselves and the druggies who want to sell to other druggies. You are addressing a barely relevant threat. Way to fucking go.

Your love and tolerance idealogy hasn't worked to turn a shithole into a non-shithole in the past 50 years and it won't work now, Mr. Trudeau..

>>34443711

Maybe. We should try it with Chicago and Detroit.

>>34446273
> Yeah, I'm sure the average Baltimoron will magically be converted to a normal, nonviolent human being if gangs didn't exist.

He'll still be a nigger but he won't get SUBSIDISED (by drug prices being artificially inflated by prohibition) in being a gangbanging nigger.


> Your love and tolerance idealogy hasn't worked to turn a shithole into a non-shithole in the past 50 years and it won't work now, Mr. Trudeau..
The drug war has not been ended anywhere in the past 50 years, so IDK what you're talking about.

>>34445263
Most of the drop in crime in the post clinton era is due to NY's drop in crime. That drop in crime began noticeably before the Giulliani/Compstat stuff.

Hard to attribute to cops.

It's actually still something that puzzles criminologists as to why crime began to drop so dramatically. Most people think it was just aging of the criminal cohort.

Though most criminologist agree that cops and prisons did help some.

But just eyeballing the graph it looks like Los Angeles is the standoout given they have a nice pronounced spike around 1999. Dallas seems to have really struggled.

>>34446273
Drugs being illegal means Tyrone can make a lot of money just by taking a big risk of incarceration/death and by doing violence against his competitor's in the business. The Tyrone's of the world have nothing to lose so they take the opportunity. Legalizing drugs takes that opportunity from them. Robbing pajeets store or stealing your xbox doesn't pay nearly as well and is just as risky, if not riskier (and those crimes are often performed to obtain starting capital to enter the drug trade)

Better to focus on things that work, like broken windows policies. But progs and lolbertarians are against that because muh freedom to piss in public.

>>34445413
The Roe V Wade thing (Levitt) super sensitive to aggregation and the years in which one picks though. It either appears to have some statistical significance but its significance (meaning once we have established not likely to be obtained by chance) is not actually of much importance.

I'm actually pro-life and I don't like the implications, but I admit it can make some sense, and you can find replications of the paper and its same flaws from... somewhere in the UK. Meaning-- play around with years and counting abortions (and these are legitimate research decisions)-- and you can either make the effect appear or make it non significant. So... I can't rule out the possibility that the effect exists.

>>34444022
drugs are degenerate, and if you support them being legal you are degenerate as well

>>34446428
humanity has been using drugs (opium, mushrooms, cannabis) for spiritual and medicinal purposes for multiple millennia. Drug use is trad as fuck, and globalists know this (hence them creating international treaties like the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs to force nations to engage in the drug war).

>>34446447
sudra detected

actually, saying that just got me realizing that the lower castes of society probably should be encouraged to dope themselves up and enjoy base pleasures since ascetism traditionally belongs to the upper castes

File: 4407375537_57ee091a8d.jpg (148KB, 375x500px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 375x500px

>>34443711
Kowloon area of Hong Kong was pretty much lawless until it was pulled down.

Seemed destroying it was the only way of reformation. In that light, i am looking forward to the saturation bombing of Detroit

File: kowloon.jpg (162KB, 964x736px) Image search: [Google]

162KB, 964x736px

>>34446482
>>34446482
Kowloon looked like something out of Judge Dredd

File: Saint-Denis, Seine-Saint-Denis, France.jpg (617KB, 1395x1046px) Image search: [Google]

617KB, 1395x1046px

Fun fact about belligerent populaces is that they enjoy living in close proximity to one another. They purposefully segregate themselves.
Like ants rolling up into a ball.

Now consider that and take into consideration the wartime event known as "the Massacre at Béziers".

File: 1498788277133-b.png (22KB, 207x239px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 207x239px

>>34445960
>turn off the water
You obviously don't live here.

>>34446548
Poison the water. Urban dwellers aren't smart/resourceful enough to find alternatives.

Although now that I think about it, urban dwellers' primary source of hydration is through sodas and other sweet drinks.

>>34446367
The illegal drug trade does involve violence (turf wars happen, and disputes can't be settled with courts and so have to be settled with violence) but a lot of it (the average drug sale, transporting large quantities of drugs) needs to occur stealthily and thus violence is avoided, so yes, the illegal drug trade is safer than knocking over stores or robbing houses -- especially given that lots of people have guns and also cash tends to be minimised (drop safes and card transactions help).


In the aggregate (the illegal drug trade is HUGE) though, the amount of violence attributable to the illegal drug trade is quite large. The fact that everyone involved in the trade is already a criminal makes committing violent acts against your competition easier, as well. They won't go to the cops and you're already taking precautions to hide from the cops.

>>34445833
Coke inspired Edison to steal the design for the lightbulb?

>>34446560
We poison the Chicago river and otters are coming back. It will be treatable unless it is so polluted that nobody can use it. Also, lake Michigan tho.

File: Honduras - most violent country on Earth.jpg (206KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

206KB, 1440x1080px

>>34446561
>The fact that everyone involved in the trade is already a criminal makes committing violent acts against your competition easier, as well.

This is an incredibly small percentage of the violent crimes that occur in urban environments. More victims are not involved in the drug trade.

>>34446585
in the US a majority of homicide victims have criminal records and are also involved in gangs (and gangs are involved in the drug trade) so uhhh this is false try again

File: 5d72e918713ab84aaea1f6fac8b788bb.jpg (113KB, 850x390px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 850x390px

>>34446273
>Your love and tolerance idealogy hasn't worked to turn a shithole into a non-shithole in the past 50 years and it won't work now, Mr. Trudeau..

the fuck? America's inner-cities have improved vastly since the 1970s. Most of the cultural "bleh" is in smaller towns/cites and rural areas now-a-days.

>>34446366
LEO was by-no-means the only thing that dropped the crime-rate. maybe not even the main thing, big point is that LEO's done what they can. If you want to lower the crime-rate find other solutions.

File: drug users will be eliminated - duterte.jpg (70KB, 625x735px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 625x735px

Psssst, /k/. I have your answer.

>>34446563
dude was a Coke head...Freud too. Many of the great men of science of the 19th/20th century probably were. Alex Bell for sure.

in fact we probably should legalize coke so we can finally reach the singularity.

>>34446273
>Your love and tolerance idealogy hasn't worked to turn a shithole into a non-shithole in the past 50 years and it won't work now, Mr. Trudeau..
My proposal is NOT to let criminiggers do violence arbitrarily. My proposal is to END the indirect SUBSIDISATION of CRIMINIGGER violence by ENDING drug prohibition.

If you want more of something, subsidise it -- and subsidising gang violence by increasing illicit drug prices by drug prohibition gets you , SURPRISE, MORE GANG (aka BLACK AND HISPANIC) violence.

>>34446561
>They won't go to the cops.....

lmao...you have never been anywhere near law enforcement.

File: Shermans-marsh.jpg (94KB, 597x467px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 597x467px

>>34443711
Since most of the blight in now in rural America shouldn't we be looking to our elders for solutions?

>do it again uncle Billy!

File: cocaine - women love drugs.png (396KB, 577x432px) Image search: [Google]

396KB, 577x432px

>>34446779
>coke head
Only after they made their name. Cocaine is a drug for the rich.

>>34446779
most of the great White scientists, engineers, authors, poets, and statesmen boozed, did coke and used opium/laudanum. Before drug prohibition, this was a normal thing and people could control themselves and live a good life AND use good drugs.

>>34446843
middle-class too. you could get it in cough drops back then.

>>34446852
(sigh) I was born in the wrong era.

>>34446165
>Those laws do allow politicians, the news media and others to create boogymen that always need to be solved with more public resources, more laws, more enforcement powers, more, more, more.
Let me phrase it more concretely. The upward spike in violence caused by Alcohol Prohibition was used as an excuse/reason to pass the NFA. Before prohibition you could get FULL AUTO MACHINE GUNS in the MAIL. Drug prohibitionist cucks helped us lose full auto guns.

Once alcohol prohibition ended, the murder rate steeply dropped DOWN, of course. Gun bans didn't help. Ending prohibition DID.

Similarly, the violence caused by Drug Prohibition was used as an excuse to pass Gun Control Act of 1968.

Do you see where this is going? No firearms owner/enthusiast should EVER support drug prohibition, if only because IT ENDS UP WITH US LOSING OUR GUN RIGHTS.

>>34446890
You can do it now, just have rich parents OR be a woman and then you can do any drugs without jail time.

>>34446959
This is a good point.

But don't forget that reconstruction saw a sharp turn in states moving away from allowing people to carry concealed weapons.

those black African veterans that shot up the police last year. they proved that even minimally trained POG shitbags can easily out operate normal police.

>>34444022
Or just have mandatory death penalty for any drug use.

>>34445761
> Legalizing psychedelics

Oh boy, blow out soon fellow Stalker...

>>34443711
>Would military intervention (cutting off supplies, transport routes, starving a belligerent city, and engaging its males) successfully quell cities that are chronic problems?

No and you should feel bad for being a complete retard.

>>34445761
The iron of this is that opiates and meth are both legally prescribable drugs, where pot and lsd aren't.

>>34445883

Laci Green would probably be a fun fuck. I wonder if she eats ass.

>>34446523
Block Wars!!!

>>34446482
>>34446482
>Kowloon area of Hong Kong was pretty much lawless until it was pulled down.

So you're saying that it's bad policy with a negative outcome to force poor people to live in a segregated part of a city?

>>34449191
Marijuana IS CURRENTLY a prescribed medication, it helps cancer patients with pain, appetite, and life outlook.
Non active doses in the 60-80 MICROgram ranges of LSD have been proven to stop migraines for up to six months. That's with zero psychedelic affects. Keep shitting out of your mouth, anon.

>>34449252
>Marijuana IS CURRENTLY a prescribed medication
Not an FDA approved one. So no, its actually isn't.

>>34449252
>legally prescribably
>pot and LSD

LOL, no. you can get a ((("prescription"))) but you lose all of your rights in the process, because they aren't legal.

>>34446724
I remember as a kid going to baseball games and walking back to the car through Five Points. There were always drunks and gang members starting fights in the streets, even when families were around. I walked around near Union Station with a couple friends a few years ago and was surprised at how much Denver had cleaned up the area, having not seen it in about 15 years. It's modern and trendy now and getting robbed/stabbed isn't really a concern. Not sure about other major cities but it seems you're right in saying inner cities have improved over the last few decades.

>>34449274
>So no, its actually isn't.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange/os-medical-marijuana-knox-dispensary-20170602-story.html

>>34449291
I bet you're the same kind of faggot who will call a Californian a boot licker for shooting a compliant AR. What's wrong, queer bait. Can't handle that the knife cuts both ways?
>thumps second amendment
>doesn't even know the tenth
What a gigantic faggot you are.

File: subotai bahadur on drugs.png (87KB, 713x577px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 713x577px

>>34444022
That's not true. Pic related.

>>34449750
Literally everything that guy said is bullshit. All of it, every last word... Just because some old faggot hung up his Nazi jackboots and took of his blue faggot shirt, doesn't make him correct.
>Angry stick-waving alt-right retiree who lives in the fucking boonies and makes up unrelated anecdotes about unrelated drugs is clearly well-informed with a respectable opinion.
He clearly has a great understanding of the legal system and the states rights debate, given his laughable misapplication of precedent.
>"Mexican brown heroin"
Don't even get me fucking started.

>>34443711

It's not the cops, it's the courts, and the laws.

1. Drug laws are fucking stupid, and are responsible for creating violence, because people in that business have no legal recourse other to defend themselves, and they make easy targets for violent shitbags looking for easy money.

2. Cops arrest the same people over, and over, and over, and yet they are released by the courts, and receive light sentances.

The number 1 thing that has reduced crime in our cities is the implementation of repeat offender laws which imposes long ass sentences for shitbags with repeat felonies.

>>34449787

>gets angry about assumptions and begins to make assumptions

wew pablo

>>34449750
>That's not true.

Yea, it is fucking true. That's why people aren't murdering each other over access to alcohol anymore, the way they were back in the fucking 20's, you dipshit.

You know who created the cartels? The U.S. government did, with their stupid fucking FAILED drug policy. That shit needs to go.

>>34449787
The same's happening here in NorCal. Complete with water shortages and rolling brownouts, because all those cartel pot grows need water and power. Grow your own fucking weed, you lazy fucking asshole.

>>34445621
I think that instead of just straight up cutting welfare, that money needs to be plowed into something product.
Rather than welfare, out it into education, creating jobs, training (for jobs), family planning etc
Give man a fish or teach him to fish, etc etc

File: 1493242150294.gif (3MB, 400x225px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 400x225px

>>34449831
>Grow your own fucking weed
I don't smoke weed...
>rolling brownouts, because all those cartel pot grows need water and power.
Sorry, I thought I was on /k/ ... It appears I've found myself in /pol/ Take the bullshit conspiracy theory back to /nsg/
>>34449805
>gets angry
>Implying.

>>34443711
>Cities that are famous for crime for nearly 4 decades?
All of them, some are just better at hiding it than others.

People are shit, and poor people are desperate. Gotta pay the bills somehow.

>>34449750
Oh hey Phil, haven't seen you in a bit, why haven't you killed yourself yet?

>>34449790
>t's the courts, and the laws.
Extra-judicial killings are a thing and they work. And they have always worked.

File: don draper face.jpg (37KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 300x300px

>>34444022
not that simple, though im sure youre college professors (who would never dare step foot in the ghetto) will tell that to you. Its the same thing when people act like gun control will wipe out all the violent crime, you underestimate how shitty people can be regardless of what you try to do. And the war on drugs will never officially end, maybe weed or some hallucinogens will get a pass but there will never be a time when people can openly do shit like heroin. Welcome to the real world