5.45 rifles

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>7n6 banned from import
>prices on civvie stuff is going up
>vepr rifles banned from import
>arsenal rifles a bit scarce
>other 5.45 options are either from garbage manufacturers or overpriced
>or both

Well shit. Why is russian 7.62 not banned from import then? And is all the 5.45 you can buy commercial ammo?

>>34427339
>Will never see import of ak12 or modern designs why bother with the caliber
>ammo price rising

>>34427339
Supply is poisoned.

>>34427412
looks like plenty of ammo to me

>>34427541
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist/ammo-shooting/rifle-ammo/545x39mm-ammo?d=121&c=96&s=964

forgot link

>tfw have had a virgin Saiga in 5.45 sitting in my closet for two years, unfired
>tfw can't find ammo for it
>tfw ordering ammo is illegal in NY

>>34427558
give it to me then if you're not using it :^)

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>>34427558
>illegal
>he actually obeys NY law

>>34427623
Nobody will ship it to me. I don't have an FFL friend to receive it, either.

>>34427339

Mainly due to the import ban of the cheap surplus shit, the 7N6.

>>34427412
7n6 is specifically banned because it's steel core and there are "pistols" chambered in 5.45x39, thus it falls afoul of the same inane "armor piercing pistol ammo" import ban that keeps the good 5.7x28 out of civilian hands. Thanks ATF, you fucking kikes.

>>34427339
because 7n6 got banned and the only commercial ammo comes from 2 factories in russia; they even manufacture the cases for the hornady 5.45 ammo. those 2 factories are the only thing left for the government to ban from import as well if they get mad at russia again and it's like the 32nd most popular caliber in the US which means it may not be worth it for us companies to start producing it if they ban those 2 russian ammo companies

>>34427558
It is perfectly legal to ship ammo to a NY residential address. That component of the SAFE Act is not in force, as the check system does not exist.

Now, finding a seller that knows that...

>>34427932
>same inane "armor piercing pistol ammo" import ban that keeps the good 5.7x28 out of civilian hands
Pretty sure this is because proper 5.7 is literally AP, black tip and all.

>>34427339
People are upset because it used to be 10 cents a round.
Now it's gone up after the 7n6 ban and stabilized at 20 cents a round.

>>34427339
Military surplus ammunition (i.e. 7N6) has been banned from futher importation. 5.45mm is generally cheap but it's not as cheap as it was back in 2014.

Also in that same year, the Department of Treasury banned imports from Kalashnikov Concern and other companies owned by them. And in June the Treasury updated the list to include Molot, the manufacturer of the popular Vepr series of rifles.

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>>34427365

>>34427412
steel core 7.62x39mm IS banned from import. It got banned all the way back in 1993 when Olympic Arms unveiled a prototype OA-93 that was chambered for 7.62x39mm. They cancelled it but the ATF STILL import banned it.

Something similar happened with steel core 5.45mm ammo, apparently a pistol was "now available" to civilians chambered for 5.45mm. ATF told us it was the Skbk wz. 1989 Onyks.

What's weird is that the Onyks was a PROTOTYPE only. They were never manufactured for adopted by anyone. But here the ATF is claiming that these are commercially available on the U.S. market but they aren't. Supposedly about 5 were imported, but they were for use in a movie. Once shooting was done they were shipped back to Poland.

So the whole 7N6 situation is bullshit, but also fishy.

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>>34427339
You missed the train buddy boy, good time to get an AR though

>>34428542
They're still cheaper to shoot than an AR by quite a bit.
The rifles themselves cost more though.

>>34428559
I can find steel case 223. for cheaper prices compared to 5.45

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>>34428578
I guess I'm just bourgeoisie because I only shoot 5.56 out of my AR.

>>34427623
>deal doe

>>34428559
Not really. I love my 74 but it's no longer economical if you're comparing steel case to steel case. Plus, a decent 74 is like $900 now, whereas a perfectly good AR is $600 or less due to the market glut. So there's $300 of 5.56 that any price differential would have to overcome. At 3 cents a round. that's 10k rounds until parity, without bringing the cheaper mags into account.

>>34427932
>Thanks ATF, you fucking kikes.
It's not the ATF's fault, blame Brady.

>>34428710
The Brady Act only established background checks when buying from a licensed dealer, our armor piercing ammo laws were established under the Firearm Owners """"Protection"""" Act.

>>34428152
Those companies also make all the other steel case ammo US shooters use. 5.56, 9mm, .45 ACP, 7.62, all of it is Russian made as well. It would cause a huge uproar to ban the source of all our cheap ammo.

>>34428796
Yes but apparently like 80% of the country doesn't think anyone NEEDS a gun, so they dgaf if cheap ammo gets banned

>>34428796
The AWB just goes to show that these gun grabbing faggots can get away with anything. Most of those rounds can be reloaded for around the same price as steel case but good luck finding 5.45 reloadable brass

>>34428879
The NATO calibers, sure, but most people don't reload. Enough people shoot Soviet calibers to get shit done if they banned the Russian ammo because you can't really reload it. I mean, you can, but good luck actually finding the components.

>>34429134
there are people reloading 7.62x39 with steel cases and cast bullets on castboolits.com. i've never tried it though. 7.62x39 is like the 9th most popular round in america though so it would probably be worth it for more american companies to start producing it if the russian shit ever gets banned

>>34427339
>whys that?
Because Trump

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>>34429183
>Reloaded steel case with cast bullets
Ewww no.

>>34429186
Trump didn't ban Veprs, the Department of Treasury did.

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>>34428822
>Yes but apparently like 80% of the country doesn't think anyone NEEDS a gun,

>>34429236
And what branch if gov is the dept of the treasury under?

>>34429249
Treasury is run by the Secretary of the Treasury, so it was his doing.

>>34429264
Which is what branch of gov? Answer the question, it's basic civics.

>>34428692
>3 cents a round
In what world?

>>34428740
Luckily pew pew pewter was overlooked.

>>34427558
Academy sports & outdoors has boxes of 40 for 6 bucks lol

>>34429436
Equivalent quality Wolf steel case 5.45 and 5.56 both go for around 20 cents per. 3 cents per round differential is generous.

>>34429186
More like "because Molot was being used as a fence to smuggle Kalashnikovs into Ukraine."

>>34429979
Really? I thought they were sanctioned because Molot went bankrupt and Kalashnikov Concern bought them out.

>>34429990
https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/sm0114.aspx
>Molot-Oruzhie, OOO manufactures ordnance and accessories and is located in the Russian Federation. In 2016, previously-designated Kalashnikov Concern advised a foreign company to use Molot-Oruzhie, OOO to falsify invoices in order to circumvent U.S. and EU sanctions. Molot-Oruzhie is being designated for operating in the arms or related material sector of the Russian Federation and for acting or purporting to act for on behalf of, directly or indirectly, Kalashnikov Concern.

>>34430181
So Molot did this to themselves? God damn it.

>>34430181
It's like when Norinco tried to sell military hardware like APCs and anti-tank launchers to gangs in Atlanta.

>>34428822
>Yes but apparently like 80% of the country doesn't think anyone NEEDS a gun
30-40% of the country owns guns...

>>34430211
Inasmuch as any business in Russia is truly independent from the government, yes.

I bought an Arsenal SLR104 two months ago for $1099 at my LGS, and then spent $150 bucks on 4 Russian mags (4 black, 1 Bakelite) and pay about 23 cents a round buying golden tiger shit.

This is my first modern military semi auto (only bolt actions, hand guns and an SKS prior to this). I honestly don't know why people are saying this is a "bad time" to get into the round unless your entire deal is contingent on paying stupid cheap prices for corrosive import ammo.

If you really want an AK74 style and your aren't dirt poor it's really not that bad.

>>34430522
>4 mags

I'd be comfortable with about 40 mags. Plus a few pouches of 45 rd bakes and molot ribs. Unfortunately the mag market has dried the fuck up since Russia decided to shit on people exporting them.

There are no good rifles being brought in + mags are about to get expensive again. That's why it's a shitty time to get into 5.45.

>>34430665
how did they shit on people exporting them

>>34427339
It gets hoarded almost as bad as .22

>>34430824
Banned from import because they were funneling arms to the wars in Ukraine and Syria.

>no where near as popular as 7.62x39, I've never seen one at another range, 7.62 probably outnumbers 5.45 50 to 1

>all factory rifles have either been banned from import, or discontinued due to low demand (Arsenal)

>cheap surplus ammo banned

>commercial ammo is hit or miss and underloaded


if Russian ammo is banned, 5.45 becomes a dead caliber with 0 support, it's not growing in popularity either, it's dying now that you can't buy a gun chambering in 5.45 unless its a parts kit.

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>>34427339
welp I still love my Bulgarian milsurp parts kit build.

Glorious Christian Bulgaria, year of 1989, shortly before the fall of Soviet communism.

>>34428511
it was probably Russian corruption paying the ATF to fuck up Ukrainian arms sector

the 7N6 we were buying was Ukrainian

>>34430665
sorry mistyped, I got 5 mags and the 4-mag canvas pouch with 5 speed loader clips and the standard cleaning kit shit. But yeah still pricier than AR stuff.

>>34430932
I thought the whole arsenal retooling thing was an old article and didnt end up going through.

>>34430224
Wait, Norinco did WHAT? Is that why they're import banned?

>>34431175
Yes. Norinco was using a local distributor in Atlanta called Keng's Firearm Specialties to bring in serious military hardware. ATF agents posing as gang members set up a meeting with some company representatives in a sting operation.

Apparently the Norinco reps stated that they could get them more equipment like SAMs, Tanks, APCs, etc if they were interested. The whole sting was called Operation Dragon Fire.

A year later in 1994, Bill Clinton offered China their Most Favorable Nation trading status back if they wouldn't sell arms on the civilian market anymore. The rest is history

No idea why or how Chinese Shotguns can still be imported. But for 23 years no Chinese Rifle or Pistols have been legal for import.

>>34430665
Glad I have 13. Think the market will open up again? I really only want a few, so if the price skyrockets I'll probably sell
>2 (10) mags
>izzy true black
>a couple bakes
>a couple plums.

I'd leave myself with 5-6 mags.

>>34430522
Imagine being able to shoot a modern center fire cartridge for literal .22lr prices dude. Compared to that, the prices and availability of 5.45 sucks. It's all relative.

>>34431173
No, now they stopped imports to focus on military contracts because 5.45 is more popular internationally than here in the US and it's not worth the trouble. Supposedly they'll bring a batch in a couple years.

>>34431197
>Keng's Firearm Specialties

So are you saying that Norinco was Keng's and shieet?

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>>34431271
They never did build up a significant footing here in the U.S., so they weren't really.

David Keng, the owner, is a pretty cool guy. I've emailed him about his company and this shit he got dragged into and was really chill. He also owns one of a kind AK that was sent to the ATF for approval to the U.S., but then Stockton happened and ATF shut down importation of "assault weapons" and the only one in the U.S. is the evaluation gun

pic related

>>34431296
We could have had dicks on our AK stocks and on our Mak grips.

>>34430824
Russian customs has started catching large quantity mag shipments and not allowing them through like they used to.

>>34431211
>Think the market will open up again?

Nothing's stopping mags from coming in from anywhere else, except maybe US customs bitching about not seeing a form 6. Small orders get through all the time. It's just not as simple as going to a website and clicking 'add to cart' and having your mags show up in a few days.

Who knows what the Russians are going to do. It's not like there aren't a fucking ton of mags in the country as it is already. Last year people were bringing huge shipments in and dumping them on forums and facebook groups. Shit, we even had a trip in /akg/ doing a group buy.

I'd buy a few bakes and plums if I had spare cash on hand. I just got tied up in an AUG when the molot ban hit and now I'm having stress dreams about not being able to buy more mags.

>>34431385
I got all my Russian ones from a Russian guy on the files. Like $20 a mag shipped.

would do again

>>34431296
>we'll never get cheap Chinese AKs and ammo back

Fuck Bush Sr., fuck Clinton, fuck the ATF, fuck everyone I'm just done.

>>34431396
That the guy that basically disappeared after the whole customs crackdown started? Dude was great to deal with up until that point. I hope he didn't get fucked over.

>>34431296
It's like a Type 56-2 and an AK-74 had a child

>>34431396

$20's a lot, most 74 mags were $5-7 each from most Russian contacts.

>>34431403
Hope the fucks die of painful cancer. Fuck em.

>>34427339

7.62x39 (and simplicity) are the only things the AK had going for it. If I wanted a high velocity cartridge i'll stick with 5.56 thank you very much.

>>34427339
>>34427339
>>34427339

The only reason to get 5.45 is to shoot surplus as pretty much all of it's positives over .223. Without surplus chain the round is essentially not going to be any cheaper than .223. But why would you want corrosive gas in your gun in the first place?

>>34431554
It's essentially just 5.56/.223 in a Russian looking package.
If someone wants an AK and dislikes the look of ARs, but wants something smaller than 7.62x39; they've got this.

It's essentially all down to rifle aesthetic.

>>34427365
>golden tiger is back
right now is a great time for 5.45

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>>34431271

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>>34427541
same any fleet farm i go to tends to have a few thousands of rounds on the shelfs packed into a neat cube, about 5 bucks for a box of 30 fmj or hp

>>34427339
There is plenty of ammo, just that import ban made things tough finding rifles. Same for the Bulgarians shuttering the SLR-104s.

>>34432586

>theres plenty of 7n6

>it will never dry up


keep thinkin theres plenty of ammo 5.45 fag, INB4 Russian ammo ban.

>>34432612
No, I am buying American made Hornady 5.45 HP for 22 cents a bullet.

>>34430915
why are we supposed to care, though?

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>>34428822
>80% of the country doesn't think anyone needs a gun

There are 300 million firearms in the US compared to a population of 320 million people.
44% of US households own these guns as of 2016. You're going to see those numbers relax a little because panic buying is thinned out thanks to recent political events.

If history is any prediction of the future, liberal democrats will rebound and more anti-gun sentiment (and really only that) will spark another series of panic buying and the cycle will repeat itself.

oh wait..
>apparently
never mind

10/10

>>34428740
>our armor piercing ammo laws were established under the Firearm Owners """"Protection"""" Act.
Uh, no, ya fucktard. It was part of the "Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act" The only bad part of the FOPA was the Hughes' Amendment. Go learn some shit.

>>34432626
the cases on those come from russia

>>34434419
Which isn't surplus my dude.
And we won't ban russian ammo/casing importation, because that would deprive all of the motard rednecks of their cheap 5.56/.223 and the fudds of their cheap steel cased durr hunting rounds.
It would be a massive blowback.

>>34434034
>300mil guns

That's the most conservative number, they're now thinking it's closer to 500mil simply because of all the people that have multiple guns and will say they don't own any despite standing right in front of their gunsafe.

>>34434451
>>34434034
300 mil is super conservative actually.
The vast majority of people I know who own guns have many.
Some have 60+.
44%+ of US households have them.

Even conservatively saying an average of 5 guns that still tremendously more than 300mil.

>>34434469
This. I've only recently gotten into fun ownership this past January.

As of now, I have three Veprs already, and on my wishlist already are
>a "modern" free floated AR
>a nodak spud "retro" A1 clone AR
>an AR10
>a CETME
>a Mini-14
>a M&P 2.0 9mm
>a late 90's Walther P99
>a Dan Wesson Razorback

And I'm sure that list is going to grow. At this rate, I'll probably have half of those by the end of the year.

>>34427339
Years ago we banned 5.45x39mm because it was armor piecing. 23% projectile weight is jacketting. As we all know, 25% is the max projectile weight in copper jacketting it can have before becoming armor piercing. If you look at 23% just right, it looks like 25%, therefore banned.

>>34434967
Fuck. Forgot to put milsurp in there. I meant milsurp. Kill me, I'm retarded.

>>34427339
I wanted to shit post here with picture of me in knee socks and sleeves, with a collar holding my Bulgarian AK74 (BSR)...

But I'm in some weird depressing state of mind last few days... though you know "the Statistics of violence committedwith firearms"

>>34434358
Whatever, they were both passed in '86 so it's not that big of a deal to mix them up. Nitpicker.

>>34436429
Uh, no they weren't. The VCCLEA was passed in 1994. Also how is it not a big deal? You're mixing up legislation that protects gun owners with gun control legislation.

>>34436464
Because the '86 FOPA did more harm than good, states flat out ignore certain parts of it so I just see it as another gun control act

I've got 2, and I love both of them.
5.45 aks are easier to control than any of my ARs.
People here love being apocalyptic when it comes to anything happening.
SGammo has case of 5.45 for less than brass t.56 which is still plenty affordable.
Ignore the cheap always being spewed from this place and everywhere else and get yourself some ak goodness.

>>34436485
This guy gets it.

5.45 AK's perform like the 2nd gen improved AR's that they are.

>>34436482
>Because the '86 FOPA did more harm than good
You're not very bright, are you? Besides the Hughes' amendment, what harm did it do?

RAS is selling Vympel loads now too hhnnngggg

>>34436497
States don't follow the "safe passage" provison. Made using a sound suppressor in the commission of a crime a 30 year mandatory minimum. Expanded the category of "prohibited" persons. Can't make new MGs for civies. Barred direct transfers of firearms between sellers of different states, and tightened who could and couldn't get an FFL.

FOPA is a shitty act and needs to get fucked.

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>>34434469
>>34434451

Even so, my point still stands that there are A WHOLE FUCKING LOT OF GUNS and not some bullshit minority number like >>34428822 was saying, and I think I was being trolled anyways.

>>34430989
plz paint ;(

>>34434419
I did not know that, thank you for the information.

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>>34427339
It's expensive to get in to and getting harder and harder by the day

>>34439401
Nigga eat a steak