Bears, kids and, guns. Oh my!

File: 266049-b81146af64747abec476d9426c61095e.jpg (166KB, 685x961px) Image search: [Google]

166KB, 685x961px

Now I absolutely do not recommended carrying bird shot for bear defense. That kid and his family got extremely lucky the bears incompetence outweighed their own.

However this picture shows luck/shot placement are key to bear removal.

This is an alaskan guide who killed a charging grizzly with a pocket sized 9mm, loaded with 147gr +p (+?) Hardcast.. Proper ammunition choice is very important.

>>34421039
>alaskan guide
you would think being a guide he would have something a little more substantial

File: _Bear_Shot_Placement_big_one-510x630-1.jpg (171KB, 497x630px) Image search: [Google]

171KB, 497x630px

Luck aside. Penetration and shot placement are key. To achieve quality penetration out of a handgun, ammo selection is very important. Hollow points are out. While it may seem like a good idea to carry your designer brand 90gr +p++ 9x19 hollow points, it is infact a horrible idea. Hardcast lead, flatnosed bullets have proven themselves some of the best wildlife penetrators on the market. If hardcast is unavailable, to expensive, or unfunctional in your firearm, then a hot loaded FMJ that is reliable will suffice. Remember for the vast majority of handgun loads, hollow points are engineered to to penetrate 12 to 18 inches in ballistic gel. Which may not suffice when factoring in the much thicker and tougher bear flesh and bone the bullet may have to travel through.

>>34421070
He's a fishing guide and I imagine he just got complacent not seeing many bears that season. Article says he normally carries a .44 mag.

>>34421261
Fuck me, meant to include

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/8/10/alaska-outfitter-defends-fishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

File: howardr_bear_04-e1465504503720.jpg (306KB, 1200x801px) Image search: [Google]

306KB, 1200x801px

Now let's talk firearm selection. Primary focuses are, semi auto handguns, revolvers, semi auto rifles and, manual action rifles.

As illustrated above with proper ammo, luck and, shot placement 9mm and birdshot are perfectly capable of killing bears. In a semiautomatic handgun I personally wouldn't go less than .357 sig. 10mm and .45 super are also high on my list. A semiauto would be best for the occasional hiker who also wants to train with the same gun for EDC or HD.

Revolvers are able to deliver much more energy per trigger pull than a semiauto. However that translates to increased recoil. Revolvers, double or single action generally require more trigger time to learn how to shoot fast and consistent than their semi auto counterparts. For the novice shooter determined to get a wheelgat I would recommend a double action .357 magnum. Strong enough to do in a bear, but tame enough to learn the recoil impulse and train on double action triggers. Single action revolvers should be relegated to genuine cowboy action shooters and handgun hunters.

Upon mastering .357, .44 magnum, .454 casull and, .460S&W are your core choices for large bore magnums. 500 S&W is one of those calibers I wouldn't ever buy. It is very large, impractical, and outmatched by hot .460.

File: 12 gauge birdshot 10 feet.jpg (408KB, 358x2715px) Image search: [Google]

408KB, 358x2715px

>>34420932
>http://juneauempire.com/news/2017-06-30/armed-11-year-old-boy-saves-fishing-party-charging-bear
And you guys keep saying that birdshot is for birds. Sheesh.

>>34420932
Buy a Deagle and train, OP

File: 1498084645577.png (317KB, 642x792px) Image search: [Google]

317KB, 642x792px

>>34420932
>the last fucking state in the u.s that has any decent amount of wildlife/wild area has higher amounts of bear attacks

OH NO, what can we do to stop this epidemic?!?!? Lets kill all the bears! Turn every square foot of this earth into suburbs! No wildlife!

Neck yourself.

File: autist burr.jpg (95KB, 622x447px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 622x447px

>>34420932
If I'm in burr country, I'll be carrying an AK. 30rds of self loading death pills. Fuck 44mag and fudds. I'd hate to shoot a bear though.

>>34421039
Most people use just one birdshot shell in the chamberto shoot in the air as a warning shot, then the rest is slugs

>>34421548
>saving 40ct is more important than my life

fucking hell, some lives are cheap....

>>34421039
>9mm for grizzly
He might as well have won the lottery how lucky he was.

I live in bear country and >>34421548 is right. Warning shots do wonders against bears as they get spooked and run easily. As far as defense funz go, .357 mag and up/12 gauge slugs will do you fine.

>>34420932
Now for my personal favorite, rifles. Contrary to popular belief the vast majority of centerfire rifle calibers are able to kill a bear at close ranges.

http://www.bob-owens.com/2013/07/alaska-hiker-fired-13-rounds-from-ak-74-into-charging-brown-bear-to-survive-attack/

5.45x39 and 5.56x45 will certainly kill a bear. But until you get to magnum caliber rifles, ammunition choice is still very important. Try to avoid fragmenting ammo, remember you've got alot of really tough bear to make it through before you hit it's chest cavity. Soft points are generally the safest and most avaliable choice for wildlife defense in intermediate calibers. In my opinion, a lightweight semiauto .308 that is proven reliable would be ideal for long hikes into the wilderness.

Now for manual action rifles. My two focus points are bolt action and lever action. Bolt actions are ill advised unless you are a hunter using a magnum caliber and not planning on getting within 100yds of it while it's still breathing. Milsurp is acceptable if on a budget, 8mm mauser, 7.62x54r and, .30-06 have been killing bears since before we were all born. The issue I have with these rifles are the rate of fire and mobility. Using a scoped hunting rifle to dump rounds into a charging bear 30 yds away wouldn't be easy. Nor would using a 6ft tall mosin in thick brush.

Many lever actions on the market today are optimized to be guide/brush guns. With shorter barrels, lightweight design, decent rate of fire and, large calibers lever actions rifles provide the best option for those not willing to chance a budget AR-15 or not wanting to lug around a heavy M1A. A well made and maintained lever action will provide reliable firepower. Many of these are avaliable in common revolver calibers, manufacturers even offer rifle specific loads of .357 and .44 magnum to get the most out of that extra barrel length.

My personal guide gun is a Marlin 1895G pre-rammington in .45-70.

Let the autism flow.

>>34421548
OP here, the only issue I have with this is, you don't always have the chance to shoot a warning shot. Also a slug or even buck shot missing will make the same warning noise as bird shot.

If you see it 100yds out and it gets curious and starts walking twards you, then yeah, save the 60 cents a round or whatever and swap out your slug for some birdshot.

>>34421679
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SjV9wzURDw

I dont know what your bonifides in practical bear knowledge are OP
But my paternal side of the family were early settlers to alaska.they were all alaskan.frontiers people, bushpilots, fisherman,subsistence hunters.Ive spent most of my life with them in alaska. I've spent alot of time in the woods of the panhandle and Denali park tracking and killing game with my dad and grandad.

Bear are a nuisance especially while hunting. If you double lung a moose and lose sight of him before he goes down. Approach the suspected death site guns ready and alert. Partially so you can finish the moose if he's still got some kick in him also because bears can swoop in quick to try and steal your kill.. Alot of attacks happen because you stumble upon a moose corpse the bears were scavenging or when you move to inspect your quarry the bear beat you to it.
My grandad was a bushpilot/subsitence hunter. If he was leading a hunting party sometimes he didn't even carry a gun his bear deterent was a metal tin filled with tiny rocks. He carried

>>34421473
While I appriceate the enthusiasm that's not entirely what I'm aiming for.

What foulness has the ursine menace bestowed upon you? Surely nothing short of forced sodomy by a large boar would cause such hate and short sightedness.

Or are you one of those urbanites that has watched a little too much national geographic and doesn't quite understand life?

File: bear patrol B2.jpg (28KB, 560x306px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 560x306px

>>34421872
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkV_ztynYDM

>>34421841
Yes and remember it's also packing it out that your attracting bears, hiking 15 miles with 140lbs of bear kibble on a frame on your back isn't a comfortable hike in any sense.

Was saving this part for the morning but what the hell why not.

I'm a 27 year old Missourian who has lived in alaska for the past 24 years. Most of my time has been in the interior but for the past 3 years I have been living 15 miles outside of denali national park. I competitively shoot, hunt, fish, kayak, hike and, snowshoe. I was also a firearm salesman at a large retailer in fairbanks for 3 years.

Jokes aside, just incase I'm outed, I don't really believe in a bear uprising.

Awareness, avoidance and, deterrence are fundamental in not becoming bear poop.

Always be aware of your surroundings, keep your head on a swivel and, don't listen to fucking headphones when out hiking or running in bear country.

Learn the areas bears are commonly sighted in your area. Learn how to identify bear sign. Also game trails can be handy for cross country navigation but they come with added risk, they are essentially a bear food highway.

Playing music, wearing a bear bell, talking, whistling and, humming are good ways to alert bears to your presence. While that could be a negative if a heavily starved and malnourished bear is in the area. Most bears do not recognize humans as natural prey and won't attack. If a bear detects you, 4/5 times it will watch quietly from the brush or wander off.

However this may seem cold hearted but if the bear is a sow with cubs be ready to go weapons free in a hurry. They will charge humans out of anger. Sows bluff charge alot less often than boars.

Bear spray is.. well it has it's place. I save it for the curious bears. Bears that are not being agressive at this moment, but are getting to close for comfort. Spray might also be the better option for those who own guns but either can't or won't shoot them fast and consistently.

This is the anon with the paternal alaskan settlers.I also agree with your gun choices 10mm, 45 super, 460 rowland.these have the potential to take a bear
9mm is a fluke meant for killing people

Revolvers are the go to bear stoppers. For many but if youre not comfortable discharging the entire thing as fast as you can into a small target don't even bother. The 10mm, the 45 super , 460 rowland, have less recoil and more shots than a revolver. And the ballistics arent bad.My bear gat used to be a glock 20 10mm. It was far more controllable than any revolver and with hot ammo could tear a bear apart.
Rifles..anything 30 caliber and above ought to do it (except 30-30)
The defensive rifles my dad and I carried for stopping whatever were AK47's. It may not stop it in one shot but subsequent shots were easy and quick to follow. The 45-70 will put down any living thing on any continent except Africa. But the recoil was always so bad you'd lose situational awareness for a bit and have to line up another horrendous shot. With the AK's you can magdump into a bear no problem with both eyes open the whole time.
Shotguns are the old standby 12ga slugs are great for bear. And thats going to be your cheapest defensive option. However many classic shotguns hold only 5 rounds.If you're getting a shotgun get a saiga, vepr, xtr-12, or ksg Mark 2 these modern semiauto shotguns can tear a bear up with buckshot and slugs.

:

>>34420932
WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS AND ARM BEAR AND ALL POINTS IN BETWEEN!
I mean, who has ever heard of a gun or a bear causing problems?

File: thunder.webm (3MB, 740x416px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 740x416px

Some years we get a lot of wolves. Some years Eagles. One year we had these weird reddish bugs, that even made the paper. Nature can be a faggot sometimes.

>>34422121
This is what people need to pay attention to. Recognizing the signs of bear, shredded bark, scat, flattened long grass. Bears aren't innately hostile unless old, sick, starved, or with cubs. Making noise gives them an opportunity to leave which most opt to do. Bear spray....to be honest I never looked into it at all. I don't know it's efficacy. I do know its a spray and an unfortunate wind shift could make things very uncomfortable. Honestly if we're talking dangerous alaskan wildlife, moose (and wolf up north) are where the majority of horror stories I hear come from.

>>34421750

What the fuck are they riding in and why?

I miss older alaska. It's gotten just enough laws now to be boring. My dad would take us up to Cantwell to camp. (They fenced off that camp ground because it's near where that 'into the wild' dipshit died and after the movie it got blown out) but on the drive from anchorage, after we got past eagle river my dad would floor it and do 140 mph all the way from eagle river to Wasilla then after wasilla do 140 all the way up to cantwell. That was like every summer. Never got a ticket.

Also when my dad was a young man he was working construction in a village near Galena.....a WET village. Hes working near a bar when he sees a distraught drunken native burst through the doors and hop into his truck. Then another, furious looking native bursts through the doors with a shotgun (wingmaster, I think) runs up to the drivers side and blows the one natives head off inside his truck. Village patrol or whatever they call themselves subdue the shotgun wielding native quite easy because after doing that he just stood there looking at the gore, deaf to the world around him. It turns out the 2 natives were brothers and had gotten hammered (shocking) and got into some bullshit argument. I guess one of them thought it was worth killing for at the time.Anyways the now incredibly hungover brother woke up in the drunk tank with no recollection of killing his brother at all.

File: dodge ram.jpg (99KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 1024x768px

>>34422456
>my dad would floor it and do 140 mph
I still do that now. On my truck it hits 4500 rpm in high gear then won't go any faster. I did this in Tok.

>tfw you will never be able to afford to move to Alaska and stay there long enough to find work
a-any anons know if there is anybody looking welders

On one camping trip in Cantwell we were coming back to camp from a rigorous hike in full carhartt gear because of the crane fly sized mosquitos.we were sweaty and miserable. As were coming down this ridge I see a big white river rock jutting above the foliage I was 11 so all I was carrying was my 22LR . I had gotten pretty good with that thing. Woe be to you if you were a magpie or chickadee. So I say to my dad I bet I can nail that rock from here my dad says "you probably could. If youre going to shoot it, shoot it and let me be for a few minutes I'm looking for sign" he didnt look back at me the whole time. he explained later He was coming up on really fresh bear tracks while we were coming down through blueberry bushes and didn't want to freak me out. So with my 22 I lit that rock up. I didn't miss with a single shot from that 15rd capacity ,tube fed 22. My dad and I moved on down towards camp. My dad apparently judging it safe. And as were coming down we get another view of that river rock....It was actually someone's fucking camper shell on their truck. I felt sick and my dad said ".....we should probably go" and we just took off.No idea what happened with those people or anything never got in trouble or any questions and we were the only other people in the area.

>>34422486
>tok
past tok a ways would be one place to really let it out.
If youre driving north from talkeetna you can really pin it there too.

Watch out you might run into the back of one of those over the road truckers....yeah right those guys are usually going faster than you and will pass your ass on a narrow, mountainside, hugging rode as ive experienced in my family's gutless motor home. I practically saw the fucking grim reaper on that one.

>>34420932
Seems like your problem is too many bears
Why not a mass cull?

File: eBggzTG.jpg (119KB, 964x1270px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 964x1270px

>>34422296
Wolves...Wolves are one reason I'm glad I live in southcentral. Creepy fuckers. Plotting on you. Walking just on the edge of the wood pretending their going about their business all the while sneaking sidelong glances at you, sizing you up. And all his buddies are standing just on the other side of the treeline, where you can't see, glaring at you.

>>34422687
Wolves are magnificent creatures

I live in black bear country but do a lot of backwoods camping in brown bear territory in national parks in the summertime. I bring my 300 memeout with hot loads and a .357 mag revolver.

I carried a basic 5.56 ar for a long time until I did some testing on a buddie's brown bear carcass. We tested a lot of calibers both rifle and pistol. My .300 bk surprised me. 5.56 out of a 16 inch barrel left barely any perm cavity and used up most of the energy penetrating the fat and hide. The .300 ripped through and dumped the energy deeper and left a wound cavity on the size of a 7mm.

9mm, .45 and 10mm didn't have much of a difference. .357 did alright but not an impressive perm cavity. It would get the job done but you would need a good shot.

I have never had to shoot a burr yet, the few I have seen kept their distance.

>>34420932
Never thought I'd see another Alaskan on here

>>34422745
Why is it so hard to believe? we live in gun mecca. Yesterday I woke up, put on a bath robe, snagged an AR off the wall display with the other rifles, put on the earpro I keep next to the door to my deck, walked out on my sundrenched deck facing my private range with targets every 20 yards or so out to 200 yards and went through a couple mags in my bathrobe. What other state, Seriously?

>>34422854
Montana I could guess, or maybe a Dakota.
>Tfw need to move out of CA to get that luxury, Alas/k/an
>Tfw I have no face

File: ballistics.png (592KB, 1205x2915px) Image search: [Google]

592KB, 1205x2915px

>>34421654

>>34422864
The land price....alaska land is pretty cheap. Montana and north dakota have gone way up. I could own half an acre in montana or 5 acres in alaska

>>34423015
Seems like it would be harder to find work though

>>34422854
I do that in WNC but only out to 100 yds.

>>34421452
Slugs confirmed goat and birdshot useless

File: IMG_0256.jpg (3MB, 4032x3024px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 4032x3024px

>>34421654
I live in British Columbia, fucking bear capital. Everyone I know hikes with a defender with birdshot first, then slugs. I agree with >>34421742, sometimes that extra few seconds makes all the difference.

>>34420932
>A bear walks into a liquor store
Sounds like the start of a joke

>>34420932
Went on a hike last night at 11:00pm
Ran into 8 moose and 1 sleepy black bear, I carry a M44 nagant and bear spray every time. Never had to use either but I trust both with my life. (obviously)

>>34424334
Came to post this.

>>34424639
I'd be more afraid of the moose than the black bear

Some friends of friends were just visiting from Alaska. Recounted a recent story where a young woman just married two weeks prior was mauled to death.

Glad that the wildlife is healthy, but people need to stay safe.

>>34422456
I actually live about 2 miles from stampede road in healy which leads to the bus. And I really hope I'm not outing myself considering how small of a town it is, but I'm an emt with Tri-valley Fire Department in healy.

That movie inspires 5 to 10 search and rescues a year. The last one we had, some worthless euro crossed the savage river in the morning and by the evening with rain and increased mountain run off it was 3ish feet higher than when he crossed it in the morning.

Now he could have waited until tomorrow early morning when it would have been at it's lowest. But instead he got on his sat phone and called us, saying he had busted his knee and couldn't walk. When the helicopter got back and landed, fucker walked right off like nothing happened. And who pays the bill for fuckstains helicopter tour? Alaskan taxpayers. Fuck that guy. Fuck chris mcwhatfuckingever and fuck euros that want to follow in his footsteps minus the dying part.

It's not even a scenic hike. It's literally a road that went to the old kantishna mime and that's it.

>>34421514
hello Clyde

>>34421595
Believe it or not it's actually happened several times that I've heard of. Every once in a while somebody who just has a 9, .40, or .45 runs into an aggressive bear. Sometimes they're at home and it's all they have on hand when one tries to come in through a door. what really surprises me is that i've heard more accounts of people successfully defending themselves against a bear with a handgun than i have cases where they were unsuccessful with one.

File: 20160904_191811.jpg (3MB, 3984x2988px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 3984x2988px

>>34425042
Moose kill and injure more people per year than bears do. However I'm more afraid of a bear than a moose. I've never been in an uncomfortable situation around moose. You'll see alot more moose in alaska but it's actually pretty easy to not get charged by one. It's usually the elderly, tourists, elderly tourists and, dipshit "nature lovers" that think meese are domesticated horse/camel hybrids.

Bears are predators, and while they don't normally hunt humans. They are more than capable of ripping your asshole out through your belly button on a whim.

> pic is muh bear thumper

File: 20170530_214300-1.jpg (4MB, 2743x1823px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 2743x1823px

>>34425400
This a prime example of a moose that is ready to kill. Her ears are flat against her head. They'll pin their ears back when they are about to charge.

>>34425400
>bolt action 45-70

for what purpose

File: file_zpse72f9022.jpg (284KB, 1024x678px) Image search: [Google]

284KB, 1024x678px

>>34425605
It's a lever action. For bear thumping. 45-70 hits you pretty good but if your not a manlet, fit and, train with it it's completely manageable. I'll set up 5 milk jugs filled with water, at 50, 40, 30, 25, and 15 yards. And run my 5 rounds through them as fast as possible starting with the farthest. I average around 5.3 seconds using a shot timer.

While uncommon, some people carry large bore magnum rifles with iron sights or with a 2-5 power scope. Pic related is in .375 ruger, a magnum caliber designed to copy the ballistic capability of .375 H&H but in a shorter action. If you can tame one of these then it's not a bad option for bear defense.

moose fucking trigger the shit outta me

Ran into a one-ton motherfucker late at night, totalled my car and damn near died, fucked just waltzed out onto the road from the woods I could do nothing

I didn't even get my insurance because "lol moose arent covered go fuck yourself"

t. slav

>>34425828
if you see any type of deer, turn down your lights. don't blind them. if you do, they will charge straight into you. if you turn off the car and wait, they'll go away.

File: 1441286898001.jpg (96KB, 560x604px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 560x604px

>>34425331
hello indian guy!

>>34424334
>Sounds like the start of a joke
I wonder what would happen if you let a bear drink a keg of beer spiked with vodka...

File: 400px-DesertEagle50AE.jpg (14KB, 400x232px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 400x232px

>>34420932
Would an autism cannon like the Desert Eagle in .50 AE actually be practical for bears?

>>34422730
Fuck wolves man we have a major problem here in the UP because of them.

>>34425978
Been dun befo.

But I would get the .44 magnum version. Gives you better penetration depending on the load, and 8 rounds instead of 7 50AE.

https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2015/11/03/14-year-old-hunter-shoots-charging-kodiak-bear-at-15-yards/

>>34422178
Well not so much a fluke but just barely scraping by. He had the best ammo for the job, it was close range and, being an experienced guide he probably knew where and how to shoot.

Honestly I'd take a .30-30 comfortably into bear country. With hot 170gr soft points that's still good penetration at close ranges. And 45-70 magnum can be tough to get used to but it can be managed with training. Training your core and upper body muscles helps too.

As for shotguns, 20 and 12ga slugs will do just fine. Antimony or copperplated buckshot is also acceptable but the higher velocity the better you'd also be better suited with 000 buck. My favorite slugs are black magic magnum by brenneke.

Again, if it's a semi auto. Make for damn sure it is reliable as you would with any self defense weapon.

>>34423642
Fucking peasant

File: IMG_4981.jpg (58KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 1024x768px

>>34422687
I was hiking up a river and about an hour later came back through to head back and fresh tracks were all over. I never saw or heard them.

>>34422559
What a shitty dad. You guys didn't even go down there so you could brag about how many confirmed you got

File: how-to-draw-a-realistic-bear-draw-real-bear-step-8_1_000000033095_5.jpg (51KB, 782x698px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 782x698px

I've only had one bear experience as I don't get out inna woods much (I live inna desert)

>drive up to northern California to camp with some friends
>stopping at June lake on our way to Yosemite
>after a day of hiking and bbqing it's time to get drunk
>we're at some lame camp ground with anti bear shit on the dumpsters
>go to said dumpster to throw shit away while I'm totally hammered
>see a black bear eating some McDonald's wrappers or some shit
>I decide my best course of action is to kick the bear in the face
>I'm about 10 feet away from it
>start yelling at the bear In a drunken slurry about how he's a nigger bear and I'm gonna kick his ass
>bear probably smelled all the booze and was startled by a stumbling angry slant eyed human
>bears face when he runs away
>didn't even throw my trash away which probably led to even more bear problema

>>34420932
Not interested in the thread but I saw your Oxford comma and wanted to say thank you.

File: PicsArt_07-02-03.55.50.jpg (53KB, 720x928px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 720x928px

>>34425042
Moose bro was chill, we walked around him no more than 25-30 feet away and he followed us for about five minutes; trailing behind about 30-40 feet stopping to eat leaves here and there for about 6-7 minutes

http://www.ktva.com/alaska-man-unharmed-bear-climbed-top-983/

Man was very close to becoming bear poop.