5 rounds of .38 Special +P

>>34417811
Defense from humans? Bears? Rhinos?
Have humans become more bullet resistant?

>>34417869
Drugged out niggers tend 5o not give a fuck. 5 rounds goes quick

>>34417811
It is infinitely better than nothing but more capacity and power would still be better. In my opinion, entirely up to you and I'll not judge if you decide it's enough. It also depends on what you are doing? Strolling through a rich neighborhood in middle America? More than enough, don't worry about it. Walking through the rough parts of Cape Town at night? Not even fucking close, get something bigger. In fact you should try and hire an infantry regiment.

My thing is that, if I ever had to use it, it would almost certainly be against 1 to 3 skinny ass druggies who would run as soon as soon as bullets start flying. Not to count on that to stop them of course

>>34417811
Suspect in the 1980s miami shootout took a 38 to the head and woke up in the fight later I wouldn't trust it

better to carry a small .38 than having a full size 10mm at home.

>>34417811
Carry what you feel comfortable carrying.

If a 5 round .38 Special revolver is easy for you to carry consistently, then do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rPTk8raXdo&feature=youtu.be&t=17m1s

>>34417811
In 2017? Meth heads are super skinny, it should do the job.

Perfectly adequate.

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>>34417811
Actually, you should carry a full size service pistol with at least 15 rounds (of either 9mm JHP or .40 JHP) if you want to be adequately protected in the event of a live-fire situation. In fact, I would recommend that you carry an additional magazine just to be sure; it sounds like a lot, but you can make it work easily if you have some meat on your bones. Five rounds is almost never enough when SHTF

Since I'm a larger guy myself, I just IWB a Glock 17L in an open-ended kydex holster made for the 17, and it works like a charm. Throw in two spare magazines in my back pockets plus a backup pistol (usually a Ruger LC9 in the front left pocket), and you're good to go.

>>34418170
Go ahead and cite sources on the average American needing to defend himself with 15+ rounds on a daily basis. I'll wait. You hardly even need a fucking gun at all but carrying something is better than nothing.

>>34417963
What the fuck dude. He's only going to tell you that because he's a badass marksman and would carry something smaller just as competently. He's completely assuming the person is competent to the point he'll instruct them anyway while being a freakishly good example that it's totally possible where as some kind of dunningkruger effect that some dumb ass that thinks they are that good would not do it as good while being more confident about it then him. That's just the wierdest set of circumstances possible you could make for this. You couldn't outshoot him likely with a better caliber than what he could dow ith less. WHAT THE FUCK.

>>34417811
I guess thats good enough for Japanese cops against other Japanese
Americans need at least 7 rounds of 9x19
Preferably hollowpoint

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>>34418170
Why do some of you EDC Fags carry spare clips?

Ever been in a gunfight?

Shit is scary I'm booking it as soon as I half-way unload a clip and have secured a open route, not gonna take a person long to get ghost when shit hits the fan..

Some of the shit you /k/ fags carry make me lulz..

>>34417884
Unless you're in Detroit (which you wouldn't be allowed to have a gun anyway) you're not going to encounter a 400lbs dindu high on pcp.

>>34418246
>clips
only when i'm CCing my Obrez

>>34417811
It would be adequate for one attacker, which would be the majority of self defense scenarios outside of the home. However, for the same size you can get something with at least a 10rd capacity, which would give you more peace of mind. You're not going to be reloading in a self defense situation, so more rounds is always a good idea.

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>>34418262
>which you wouldn't be allowed to have a gun anyway

Glock 20.

>>34417811
The best gun is the one you have with you when you need it.

IMO, if you feel comfortable with 5 and are willing to carry it consistently it is good enough for most self-defense situations.

Lot of dumbfucks/trolls ITT, damn.

>>34418262
Guns are quite legal in Michigan. Detroit is no exception.

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>>34418246
>clips

>>34418219
I'm not even trying to say freak in a bad way, it's just like if you're looking for someone even remotely that good it's such a remote subset of candidates that you'd even find good shooters that suck at shooter calibers considered inferior and can't even fit that profile as good as they would with something better.

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>>34418170
I knew that glocks are just basic bitch autism tier weapon, but that G17Lanklet is just harrowing to look at.

>>34418271
OP here
Looking at a Kahr for my next auto loader. I like them small guns, man.

>>34418531
Kahr are CCW specialists. Go for it.

.38 Special is more than enough. Buffalo Bore makes some great +P rounds and if you handload, I'm sure you could load a stouter round.

>>34418246

a spare magazine is more valuable as a substitute for a malfunctioning magazine, not because you need the extra rounds

>>34417811

it's plenty

Be mindful that the recoil on snubs can make them hard to shoot

I personally wouldn't recommend anything less than a 3" barrel on a revolver

>>34418641
>carrying handloads

Do not do this

>>34418898
Why not? I'm genuinely curious.

>>34419069
Because maybe that good little boy with his life getting back on track would still be alive if you didn't load SUPER MURDER DEATH ROUNDS

>>34419079
Niggers are worthless subhumans. Who cares?

>>34417811
>5 rounds

nigger please, get a Colt

>>34419196
The theory is you get sued for all your money and go to prison because you used handloads which you made more 'deadly.' Not sure if real or not, but many people seem to think it is.

>>34417963
For those who are not aware, the guy in this video can actually speak authoritatively on the matter of self-defense and CC. He has been confirmed to have actually killed a would-be assailant in lawful self-defense. He was arrested for it, charged, said he would be acquitted once the evidence was examined, and was indeed acquitted.

.357>.38spl any day of the week.

Little extra weight for a guaranteed incapacitating wound if hit. .38spl is weak as fuck, even a +P

>>34419235
So just buy as one previous poster stated SUPER MURDER DEATH ROUNDS and use those instead?

>5 shots is not enough against hoods

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting

>>34418832
>snubs are hard to shoot

This is a meme. The only reason they have this reputation is because many of the kinds of people who buy them do not know anything about shooting handguns and/or don't practice. They are no more difficult to use than any other kind of gun for self-defense in the hands of someone who has a competent grasp of the basics: trigger control, stance, grip, sights.

>>34419287
>on track would still be alive if you didn't load SUPER MURDER DEATH ROUNDS

I think he meant what I said. He didn't say you bought the deathrounds, but you loaded them.

If you want to be safe, buy your carry ammo and don't use anything with a crazy name like "nigger shredder" or something.

Or investigate it prior to using handloads or nigger shredder ammo? I don't use either so I never looked into it. I do know some cop had something like "you're fucked" inscribed on his personal AR he was using on duty and it was used against him at trial for on on duty shooting.

>>34419294
>"here's another"

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>>34417884

I live in Los Angeles in a predominantly hispanic neighborhood.

And though these beaners are stupid violent people, they still have self preservation in mind. They'll scatter when the shots start rolling.

Just a few months ago i heard little tiny pops in the alley, I thought they were fireworks but then I knew it had to be some .22caliber Saturday Night Special when I heard a loud "PING!!!!!" that sounded like it hit a fence.

I hear some low I.Q. yelling. I look down from my fourth floor window into the alley and one beaner is making a run for it.

Another is on the ground, and his two friends are running trying to get back in their house and hide.

Eventually they come out and pick up the fat beaner on the ground and move him inside the apartment complex from the alley.

Police Helis and Paramedics got there in around 5 minutes.

Try to google this pic. You wont find it. 100% origami.

Point of the story is. Just popping one guy is enough to handle most situations.

>>34419415
That's basically exactly what I'm picturing.

>>34417811

Totally fine anon.

You can do some basic proactive things to make yourself plenty effective with that setup.

Practice as much as you can. Gettig hits with a J frame can be difficult. Regular practice will help a lot. Consider a similar sized .22 revolver to get a lot of rounds down range for cheap. Practice reloading so you can do it fast and under stress. If you have a way to practice on the clock that is best.

Get good ammo. A lot of over the counter .38 special +P is loaded pretty weak. Get some boutique stout stuff like buffalo bore or underwood. Buy enough to practice with so you know the recoil and where it hits with your gun.

Consider some crimson trace grips. I really like the boot grip sized J frame one they make. Minimum size and has a really soft back strap that absorbs +P recoil very well. I keep those on the gun in my car in case I have to fire in a position where I may not get a sight picture (one handed while reversing away or something). Maybe I'm a little paranoid but I live in a never relax area and there have been a lot of road rage shootings and incidents recently. Also if the laser makes someone stop before you have to use your gun that's a win for you.

>>34419574

I agree with the general idea of what you told OP.

Practice a lot with that snubbie.

>>34418733

Why not carry a revolver then?

>>34419574
Yeah, I just shot a snub I bought for the first time today, and I definitely need to practice with it more so I can get the hang of it

Don't let something you want to learn to shoot scare you away from the first time shooting it

It'll do if you know how to shoot, don't run into a pack of feral nogs, and don't run into someone marginally competent who has more rounds in his gun than you do. Because if your gun goes empty before a marginally competent/determined someone else's does in a gunfight, he will likely kill you.

But for your garden variety dindu/beaner muggers or burglars, it'll be fine.

It's fine, Anon. I wouldn't even bother with the +P, honestly. More recoil, for not much better performance from a snubby. Hell, I'd go with target wadcutters. Low recoil, and they penetrate pretty good. No expansion, but 3 or 4 in the chest will change most anyone's mind.

Not what you want with multiple attackers. But, the stats are on your side.

>>34419789
>seriously recommending wadcutters for defensive use

.38 Special is only able to remain competitive today due to +P

I live in a bad area and carry a 2 shot derringer in normal .38 spl. thing is tiny and less noticable than a cell phone or large pocket knife. no one ever knows i have it.

the gun is only viable at 15 feet or less and if i cant hit center mass by the second round i deserve to die.

the guys who walk around with full sized double stack holstered Glocks are pussies with small dicks. this isnt a war zone, even where i live (probably a lot worse than most of you, its right below chicago in terms of danger). Also, all the talk about POWER is bullshit. no one is wearing body plates or kevlar. 99.99999% of people, even niggers and gangbangers, are wearing 1 shirt and maybe a jacket. 22lr or normal 38 would be plenty enough to stop a normal person if you could hit center mass

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>>34418170
found the arfcommer

>>34419813
>implying wadcutters don't work for defensive use

http://www.luckygunner.com/38spl-winchester-super-match-148gr-wc-50#geltest

If you think perfect penetration per the FBI specifications with virtually no recoil is inadequate, I'd want to know why you think that way.

Furthermore, the data in these gel tests is supported by real world data. Do you know who Jim Cirillo and the NYPD stakeout squad were? If you don't know, go read about them and look at the part where he talks about what he used in his handguns. Additionally, keep in mind that he actually used those handguns MANY times in the course of his work, so it's not as though he was making unfounded recommendations.

>>34419918

Wadcutters are a viable option, especially if you can get more shots on target faster with them.

The reasoning behind +P is for hollow points to get them traveling fast enough to expand. Lack of expansion from too low velocity is a common theme in .38 ballistics tests.

I have an LCR in .357 magnum, but only ever shoot .38 through it. It's got plenty of power, and statistics show that the vast majority of self-defense shootings end up with 2-3 rounds shot, so five is statistically twice as many as you'll need. I find the LCR perfectly controllable and more than acceptably accurate at realistic self-defense ranges. Remember that a snub is a tool for a specific situation. It's designed for short-range self-defense encounters, on the street or in your bedroom when the bad guys have broken in. It's not a combat weapon, it's not a precision weapon, but it's good for what it was designed for.

>>34419813
>.38 Special is only able to remain competitive today due to +P
WTF does "competitive" mean? .38 snubs aren't competition guns. Read what I said above. They're self-defense guns designed for limited, but common situations.

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>>34418242
I just fucking KNEW when I saw this thread that some dumbass who thinks 9x19 is adequate would shit on .38 +P.

>>34418170
>at least 15 rounds
>just need meat on your bones
>two spare mags (that's 51 rounds minimum

You're fucking kidding right?

>>34417811

You can make the argument to go more powerful/more capacity until you're carrying a rifle concealed. A standard 38 snub is enough to stop and kill a man the key is to train as much as possible which will be the case with ANY gun you decide to use for self defense.

Whenever I hear about the scenarios people cook up to justify saying stuff like single stacks don't carry enough ammo for self defense it almost sounds like they're saying you're going to go up against an army of mutant cyber ninjas.

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it's fine, but I'd want something with a magazine if I had the choice

>>34419283
>.38spl is weak as fuck, even a +P

The most commonly carried police round in North America for most of the 20th century? And it's more powerful than .380, which itself was the most commonly carried police round in most of Europe for most of the 20th century?

You don't know what you're talking about. Both will do the job if you can hit what you aim at. And like a lot of other people have pointed out so far, any gun you have at the moment beats any gun you've left at home.

>>34420038

> if I had the choice
> Kel-tec

ಠ_ಠ

>>34419294
>They are no more difficult to use than any other kind of gun for self-defense

In fact, short barrels are stiffer and can be more consistently accurate.

>>34419574
OP here
I've been doing a lot of dry fire with empty casings in the chamber and I'm getting more confident with the trigger. I ordered some of that Sig V Crown bullshit because apparently it still expands alright from 2" barrels. If I still feel undergunned with that and a speed strip then I might consider buying some of that fancy Buffalo bore.

>>34419388
>If you want to be safe, buy your carry ammo and don't use anything with a crazy name like "nigger shredder" or something.

I doubt that this situation has ever been a serious factor in someone being convicted or sentenced. But if someone is really paranoid, it wouldn't be hard to find out what your local police use and just buy that same brand. Hard to argue that you're a bloodthirsty savage if you can truthfully say "I just asked what the local officers use, because I figured that would be a good choice."

>>34419955
>Lack of expansion from too low velocity is a common theme in .38 ballistics tests.

That's mostly an issue for snubs though, right? Most .38 +P ammo seems to have no problem expanding with anything greater than a 3" barrel.

>>34420114
Not always.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

There are federal and horandy loads here you would expect to perform well that don't expand at all from a 4".

>>34420240
Huh.

Well shit, maybe wadcutters might be the best option after all for .38 snubs if expansion gets iffy even in longer barrels.

>>34420097
>I ordered some of that Sig V Crown bullshit because apparently it still expands alright from 2" barrels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFE38IsUAE8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtr-2t7PDcI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0ozGInkQU0

>>34418170
www.gunssavelives.net

Most defensive shootings involve 1-3 shots

>>34420114

I would buy ammunition named "Nigger Shredder".

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>>34417811
I go back and forth more times then id like to admit.
>feel underpowered with only 5 shots
>but there are auto loaders that are only 5-7 shots
>but those can be reloaded faster
>but the odds are id be in a 1V1 self defense shooting and
>but then there are those incidents where there is a huge shootout, and with the way things are these days id rather be prepared
I usually go for the latter, but I do carry a wheelgat from time to time, It really depends on what im doing and how long im going out. If its just to the store and I dont feel like suiting up Ill throw a .38 in my pocket. Im still plenty proficient with them and any gun is better then no gun at all

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>>34418246
>clips

>>34417811
I'm currently in the market for something like a ruger lcr. It's really the most you'll need in 99% of self defense situations. Things to remember:

>brandishing might be illegal but what nigger or undocumented spic is going to run to the cops? And there is a high probability that's the situation you're diffusing.
>a mudslime or a crazy white boy with an automatic weapon should still be fled from. Don't be a fucking hero, the media will present you as a racist anyhow for killing a poor innocent mudslime. Run first, shoot later.
>5 shots isn't a lot. But as many have stated, you really going to carry 3 magazines, plus a loose extra for your plus one?

>>34420048
>you dont know what youre talking about

Ok.

>>34418262
you can have guns in Detroit just as much as everywhere else in MI. Which means you can carry everywhere that basically isnt a gubbermint building.

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>>34418265
Kek

>>34420514
Does anyone know what kind of ammo Zim Zam used on that nigger Trayvon? We should call that Nigger Shredder ammo.

>>34419982
he means competitive with other defensive rounds. As in, vanilla .38 spl isn't as good as 9x19mm. .38 +P is about even with 9mm however.

Then there is .357 which blows them out of the water once you get past 2" barrels.

>>34418217
Luby's Massacre, Virginia Tech, N. Hollywood etc.

The whole point is not knowing what is going to happen even though G17L is meme tier.

>>34419283

>Selects .38 spl that penetrates 12-18" and expands as much as possible.
>This is somehow shittier than .357 magnum, which you select loads that penetrate 12-18" and expand as much as possible.

They won't notice the difference retard. It's literally the same bullets going to the same approximate depth.

>>34420048

It's still a blackpowder cartridge, and standard pressure is intentionally loaded under for old revolvers which is detrimental to expansion. Even the OG 158 Semiwadcutter is poor at expansion unless +P and 3"+ barrel.

9mm, .380, and 357Mag are much more efficient since smokeless, and you are not limited to a revolver.

I do agree a J frame works, but a semi-auto has way too many advantages.

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>>34418170
Eda is trying to rev up business for the Rip-Off Church, guys.

>>34417811
OP just doesn't trust them newfangled otter-matick pistols, nor that newfangled smokeless powder neither, and he's not sure about brass cartridges. Also he posted a picture of a Taurus revolver that's been flipped left to right, so that's automatic fail.

>>34419294
No, I've been shooting handguns for 30+ years.

The single most difficult type of firearm to shoot well is a centerfire snubby with a short barrel. EVERYTHING is against you--you're trying to hold a 12 ounce gun still and focus on the front sight while you fight a 12 pound trigger backwards over an inch of travel. The tiny sight radius, the absolutely dogshit sights that almost all snub revolvers have, everything is against you. Every little flaw of stance, grip, and followthrough is magnified. They are the very hardest type of handgun to shoot accurately in a hurry, and the most unforgiving of flaws in technique.

Do you shoot IPSC or IDPA? Tell me about your split times holding the A-zone with a 2" five-shot .38 Special wheelgun, compared to a fullsize Glock, or even a full-size wheelgun. Tell me about your times on Mozambiques. Tell me how often you can pass on Two-Two-Twos with the snubby wheelgun compared with, say, a Glock, or even a 1911. I don't see a lot of 2" J-frames on the firing line, not even on Revolver Night.

There's a reason nobody who shoots for big prize money shoots a wheelgun when he can pick up anything else--games like PPC that mandate wheelguns in the rules excepted. And even in PPC nobody brings a 2" J-frame, not even as a joke.

>in b4 "but it's different on the street"
>in b4 "that range trick shot shit doesn't matter, I can pull this snubby out at ten feet and usually get almost half of them on the blue part of the silhouette and that's good enuf 4 me, hurf durf"

>>34417811
Maybe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting

But it could be close. However, a J frame .38 is so small that there is no reason to never have it on you. Remember, surprise and commitment.

>>34419918
In .38 Special, Jim Cirillo used homemade cup-point full-wadcutter solid copper hollowpoints he made himself on a lathe out of copper roundstock, and he loaded them HOT, and bad people still didn't fall down as fast as he would have preferred. Shortly after that he stopped carrying the .38 on stakeouts and traded up to a 6" Dan Wesson .44 Mag.

>>34419998
That's because 9x19 is almost twice as powerful as .38 +P, especially when you castrate the revolver round by shooting it through a stubby 2" barrel.

Enjoy your 550 ft/sec muzzle velocity and 150 foot-pounds of energy, which are unavoidable consequences of wedding yourself to a platform built around a 19th Century blackpowder legacy cartridge that runs at 17,000 PSI. 9mm, loaded to European milspec (42,000 PSI) can break the 400 foot-pound mark from a service-length barrel and come close to it in a 3" or 3 1/2" singlestack 9mm CCW pistol's barrel. .38 Special, even +P, is much closer to .380 ACP in power than to 9mm.

There was a time when five-shot wheelguns in minor calibers were the best answer to questions about CCW. That was 1895.

>>34421800
>Do you shoot IPSC or IDPA?
Unfortunately the front sight, front sight, front sight set things they know all there is to know about gun fighting because of muh split times. The SASS guys or Rex Applegate have a different philosophy and seem to also be successful. Front sight is important and will get you to a certain place. However, at some point, you must learn to become and instinctive shooter.

>>34421800
Not that guy, and I do agree with you on several points, but competition shooting as a whole certainly favors large pistols. Why would anyone gimp themselves by choosing even a slightly less favorable gun for shooting when a full size offers no penalties in that particular situation?

Also, talking down to your peers is probably the least convincing way for them to join your side

>>34421800
Sorry, but "inb4" is not a magic mantra that makes legitimate objections to your points somehow invalid. I said it before and I'll say it again: A snub is a specific tool for a specific job. It's not a competition gun, it's not a precision shooter, and it's not a combat firearm. It's a concealed carry and/or nightstand gun designed to save your life in a close-range encounter with a one or two bad guys - in other words, for what statistics show us is the typical self-defense shooting situation. I've only been shooting handguns since last December, and I can consistently and reliably put round after round through the center ring of a target at realistic self-defense ranges (7-10 yards) with my LCR. That's what I bought it for, and that's what it does.

>>34421849
>Enjoy your 550 ft/sec muzzle velocity and 150 foot-pounds of energy, which are unavoidable consequences of wedding yourself to a platform built around a 19th Century blackpowder legacy cartridge that runs at 17,000 PSI. 9mm, loaded to European milspec (42,000 PSI) can break the 400 foot-pound mark from a service-length barrel and come close to it in a 3" or 3 1/2" singlestack 9mm CCW pistol's barrel. .38 Special, even +P, is much closer to .380 ACP in power than to 9mm.
Why does any of that shit matter in the kind of situation that a .38 snub is designed for? Will Tyrone or Jose be twice as dead if I shoot him with 9x19 rather than .38?

>>34421849
Just checked ballistics by the inch several .38+p loads get ~1000 fps from a 2 inch barrel.

>>34422008

Hey YOU!!! NO LOGIC ALLOWED ON HERE.

only retarded tacticool ramblings allowed where you generalize everything, and there is no grey zone

>>34421455

Except for close contact shooting. Which is the whole point of a snubby

>>34418170
>I need 30 rounds of ammo to walk around safe every day

Can you please find me a report of any civilian using 30 rounds to protect themself in America within the past 30 years. Studies show that most times a gun is used the problem or threat is resolved in 2 shots.....TWO. Threats tend to run once you open fire.


>go to edc threads
>some idiots carry guns with 16 round mags and have 2-3 spare mags

What kind of shit are these fags planning to get into? Seriously stop watching movies.

>>34418246
>clip
You dun fucked up.

>>34421810
Nothing gets me harder than niggers being shot. Funny thing is all four monkeys went on to commit crimes. Niggers truly are just crime apes.

>>34422008
But none of that invalidates the fact that they're harder to shoot accurately with than a full size pistol