Lets just push millions of dollars into the ocean, why not?

>>34341625
We destroyed even more in Iraq and Afghanistan.

>>34341625
The money was already gone. Those helos where south vietnamese

>>34341625

>>34341625
its often cheaper to leave it or destroy it than to actually ship it home, especially if replacement orders have already been placed and newer models made.

Sometimes we leave it in the hands of our aquaintances or proxies.

>captcha: select all helicoptors

Damn hippies wasting taxpayer money

>>34341625

My understanding is that a person was trying to land on the carrier and they needed to clear deck space in a hurry. The person who was trying to land was a South Vietnamese who was trying to escape from Vietnam after the fall, and he was trying to land on the career in a small commercial aircraft. The man was also very low on fuel, and he needed to land quickly. Once the sailors realized what the man was trying to do, they decided that dumping the helicopter to make room for a quick landing was the right thing to do.

It's a Vietnamese Huey, not an American one

>>34341686
Yeah because fuck poor innocent people running away from communism

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>>34341739
Some of them just threw their families out of the chopper onto the ships and then ditched.

>>34341842
Basically... Yeah.

https://youtu.be/zWN6XGUAhZU

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>>34341625
what a waist of Galactic Credits

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As a UH-1 enthusiast, this always hurts to watch.

>did... didn't I do good? W-why have you done this?

>>34341739
He had half an hour left of fuel. How long would it take to get those helos in the air instead?

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>>34342026

and then what you monumental retard

>>34342051
Land the cessna, unload the cessna, punt the cessna, land the choppers.

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>>34342014
It's kinda like putting a dog down...

>You hug him you pet him, tell him everything is ok, and that he's a good boy. Just before his eyes close for the last time your teary eyed face is what he will see

>>34342026
Half an hour is nothing

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>>34342014
It's ok annon... 30 ~ 50 years from now they will be discovered and raised up from the sea floor, they will be restored and put on display or flown again... while all their other brothers were long since turned into soda cans, or used as targets

>>34341625
>stop the fight
>flee
>destroy material
What a bunch of cowards!

>>34341842
Anything that runs is a VC.

>>34344141
Anyone that stays still is a well disciplined VC

>>34341973
As if they care, those tax credits came from small planets in the outer systems, whose names they probably can't pronounce. They only care about what happens in their star system.

>>34341625
>"Sorry, we had to leave you to die in Vietnam because we didn't want to throw a couple helicopters overboard."

>>34341625
>>34341872
>>34342014

>This is what an Amerishart victory looks like.

>>34341625
iirc the whole us army was on evac mode and very quickly after usa lost and left the south vietnam ( i dunno I think usa thought vietnam was going to be like nk and sk) any way once they left they had so many people in the ships they had to throw the helos out so yeah thousands got thrown out

the people that got left behind got tourtored and killed even vietnamies people who worked in american embases there is a famous picture of a senetor punching a south veitnames guy cos he would not get off a helo taking off

>>34344774
The US army wasn't in evac mode, they had already left South Vietnam a long time ago, otherwise North Vietnam wouldn't have attacked.

The whole evacuation of Saigon was mostly US Embassy personnel and South Vietnamese military forces and their families trying hitch a ride with the USN back to the US.

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>>34341666
>SVA equipment
>US Army logo on tail section

>all those UH-1s dumped in the ocean
All those trashed helicopters and they have one at the fort in my state just slowly sinking into the dirt, it just fucking kills me, and they wont sell it to any civilians because 'muh military hardware'.

>>34341625
yet another millennial with no concept.

REEEEEE MATERIEL*

>>34343564
Why must you make me feel this way, Anon. I was having a not-terrible day before I saw this post

>>34343664
>Force enemy to the table
>Force them to sign peace treaty
>they honor the treaty until you leave then zerg rush the border
>Feel bad that the guys who you helped don't know how to fight without your help so you ditch a couple helicopters to make room for them on your boats so that they can chill back at your place

Our only real failing was thinking that commies could be trusted to keep their word. Commies have no souls, they are not human, they cannot be trusted, they must be purged.

>>34344774
>usa lost

The K:D ratios and NV being forced to sign a peace treaty suggest otherwise. That they didn't honor said treaty is no fault of ours. If you want to call that a loss, we at least did better than the French.

>>34342051
hahah i like this image

>>34341842
yeah they should be staying and fighting for their country instead of runnning off to some other place for free handouts

people who flee their country during a civil war should be executed for treason

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>>34344942
>>34344994

The peace treaty was nothing but a glorified cease fire. The north Vietnamnese would've never stopped anyway in their attempts to unify the country (by force).

>The K:D ratios

This wasnt a deathmatch, it was an elaborate game of capture the flag (having control over clay and people). The USA merely spawncamped the North with its airpower and never invaded which what they should've done to actualy end the war.

>>34345061
>being this retarded
You probably think the French and Brits should have stayed and fought to the last man at Dunkirk too

>>34345066
>it was an elaborate game of capture the flag (having control over clay and people).

Going by that metric the U.S. can claim victory as well. They'd pushed the NVA back to their capitol had they not? If player A dominates the shit out of player B, then gets tired and leaves the server, Player B did not beat Player A because he beat the shit out of Player C after Player A left.

>>34341625
>millions of dollars
drop in the bucket for America.

>>34344856
Do you not know what a VNAF roundel looks like?

>>34343611
No they won't

>>34342014
>implying a UH-1 wouldn't go down saluting, proud of having done its duty.

Goddamnit all those choppers could've been used to drop commies to their deaths.

>>34345214
a UH-1 should go down fighting the red menace or die trying while guns blazing

not sink to their death or die of rust in a retirement graveyard

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>>34343611
>all their other brothers were long since turned into soda cans, or used as targets

No sir, pic related.

>>34344994
The war was lost in our living rooms, not in the battlefields.

The end of the war caused a huge clusterfuck of a refugee crisis of South Viets fleeing the commies.
The US Navy performed some of the biggest rescues of boat people shortly after the wars end - including the remnants of the South's navy, in addition to the iconic overboard hueys.
http://www.npr.org/2010/09/01/129578263/at-war-s-end-u-s-ship-rescued-south-vietnam-s-navy

It was such a tragedy. It's good to see how Vietnam has improved since then, and even better to see that the two nations have largely turned the page on their history and are now friendly with each other.

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>>34342014
>As a UH-1 enthusiast, this always hurts to watch.

How does this make you feel?

>>34343611
>>34345267

>all their other brothers were long since turned into soda cans, or used as targets

No sir, pic related (again).
This time used against Islamist filth.

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>>34345283

dammit.

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what kind of huey is this

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I took a class on the 300-level college history course on the Vietnam War taught by a world-class historian.

The very short version is the U.S. Navy feared an attack would occur during the evacuation, and wanted to decks cleared to be able to launch its own aircraft.

>>34341739
My godfather was assigned to the carrier, he was with the airwing left on shore somewhere but what he said happened (he was told from a bud still aboard) that a South Vietnamese colonel or someone had stripped all the non essential equipment out of a cesna (including radio) and shoved his entire family into it.
He circled above the carrier for an hour or so dropping notes, until finally one landed on the deck and into the hands of someone. It pretty much said "I have 20 minutes of fuel left, no radio, and a ton of people, I am blabla please let me land".

They pushed a bunch of helos over board and let him land, first unassisted landing on the carrier and set some records.

>>34345346
My godfather was assigned to the airwing aboard, it wasn't aboard.
It was for a cesna to land.

Isn't anyone going to post this?


https://tacairnet.com/2015/08/20/a-south-vietnamese-air-force-officer-was-responsible-for-one-of-the-craziest-carrier-landings-of-all-time/

>>34341625
BEcause we can afford it.
plus they needed room to land more evac choppers full of civilians.
Theres a documentary called Last days in Vietnam on netflix, i highly recommend it.

>>34341625
Going to have to post a quote from a bong for this.

It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition.

Who gives a fuck about trashing some equipment if you're saving some lives?

>>34345275
Rekt

>>34345267
>>34345290
>machine used for killing filthy gooks
>now used under the service of filthy gooks
A fate worse than death

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>>34345182
>implying that historic aircraft have not been pulled out of the jungle / ocean and restored or put on display

wew lad

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>>34345182

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it is a do-17

>yfw hundreds of planes just thrown into the ocean after WWII instead of taking them back because the cost wasnt deemed worth it

This shit has been going on longer than you think

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>>34345309

Looks like it wants to be a Yankee but it still has its training wheels on.

SKID ROW OR BUST

>>34341670
that arguement has always sounded like bullshit to me. the carriers have to return home anyways so its not like they cant bring them. even with the replacements, you could potentially double your amount of aircraft

you fell for military industrial complex memes

>>34345769
its still would of been better to keep them instead of having to drudge them up and restore them

>>34345910
>>34341670
this situation had nothing to do with cost, there were so many Vietnamese citizens escaping from the collapse of South Vietnam that there were literally no more room on board of the ships for the helos, those choppers went to and from the carrier to pick up people then dropped them off.

IICR these people, and the last of the South Vietnamese navy ships that escaped were all unloaded and interned at the Philippines

>>34345931
Nigga the war was over, they were heading for the scrapyard anyway.

>>34345973
I'd rather have a huey come back rather than some democrat voting gook that won't even fight to protect their family unless someone puts a gun to their head

>>34345973
helicopters are more important than south vietnamese IMO

>>34345976
>they were heading for the scrapyard anyway
it would be smarter to keep them for training purposes or even kick a few down to police departments n shit

scrapping or destroying military equipment is just retarded senpai

>>34346000
...What.

Why keep a pile of worn out, beat to fuck equipment that has been in a warzone for god knows how long when you can dump it, save a bunch of lives, and re-equip with new equipment at home, half the planet away?

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>>34344720
>This is what a europoor victory looks like

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>>34345346
I remember reading a story in some SOG non-fiction book that talked about how they were creeping through the jungle and came to a small clearing and sitting there was a UH-1 in perfect condition. No bullet holes or any signs of damage and the engine bay was still warm to the touch like it had just landed. The crew was missing but the pilots code book thingy and the M60's were still there. Like they had just landed and E&E'd right away. The problem was that they were the only guys in that AO in Cambodia at the time and didn't hear any other birds go down or call for help. It spooked the shit out of the nungs. I wonder if that's the same ship all these years later.

Vietnam was weird man

>>34345995
Have you ever met a Viet annon? They are based as fuck, don't confuse them with some of the other groups that don't give a fuck about this country.

>>34345691
The gooks were never the problem, stupid Burgers thinking Viet Nam was a ChiCom pawn instead of a historic fucking ENEMY of China which invaded them before and attacked them after reunification!

How dare you be historically illiterate? Stupid ni88er.

>“You fools! Don't you realize what it means if the Chinese remain? Don't you remember your history? The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism is dying. The white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than to eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life.”
― Hồ Chí Minh

>>34345061

There wouldn't be a civil war if America had stayed out

>>34346018
its just wasteful. you could even use oars from it to extend the service life of other aircraft when spare parts stop being made

there is literally no good reason to dump military equipment

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>>34346020

>>34346018
>God knows how long...
Nigga those helicopters were at most 6 years old

>>34346051
There is literally no good reason to spend your maintenance budgets and your mechanics tie keeping knackered old shit in usable condition instead of the equipment you're actually using.

A bunch of worn out south Vietnamese hueys were not going to be any use to anyone.

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>>34346055

>>34345002
keep it my friend, it's all yours :^)

>>34346020
It is a win. By killing their enemies the muslims lost

>>34345910
>you fell for military industrial complex memes

Development went so rapidly that bringing back beat up shit had no payoff for the effort involved. It's pathetic that so many aircraft buffs can't be arsed to learn more than superficial information and think one machine is the same as another because they share a name or look similar. You probably think the US should still fly Phantoms and Tomcats because they look cool.

Early models like those with high airframe hours would have gone straight to the AMARC then the shredder. Iroquois is a fine design but a modern UH-1Y isn't the same machine as the 1960s era Hueys which weren't the latest when given to SVN then ditched or captured in 1975.

t. USAF avionics puke (later F-16 engine weenie and crew chief) who worked Viet Nam era Broncos, Phantoms, and even a couple of the Mayaguez mission veteran CH-53s when they were at Sembach in the 1980s.

>>34343593
Half an hour is a full thirty fucking minutes. DOES IT TAKE TWENTY FIVE MINUTES TO GET A CHOPPER IN THE AIR, ANON?

>>34345066

That would have been an enormous mistake but a perfectly understandable one considering how many mistakes we made in Vietnam.

The US should have back Uncle Ho over the French and we should have made the frogs accept Vietnamese independence. The colonial era was over but the impotent little French fuckers had just lost their balls in WWII and so they had to hang on to their imaginary empire and like fools the US went along with it because we were "Allies".

Ho Chi Minh was far from a dedicated communist. He was a Vietnamese patriot and the George fucking Washington of Vietnam. He attends a communist party meeting in Paris and we decide he's no better than Mao or Stalin.

Well, if we wouldn't help him and his cause he wasn't shy about going where he could get help. We created the mess in Vietnam ourselves and deserved the outcome we got.

We were backing the turds while all the Vietnamese patriots were fighting for independence and unification.

Like Cowboy said in Full Metal Jacket "We're shooting the wrong gooks".

>>34346176
>DOES IT TAKE TWENTY FIVE MINUTES TO GET A CHOPPER IN THE AIR, ANON?

A chopper that you know is serviced, postflighted and preflighted, or one among many unknowns which must be fuelled in sequence because carriers don't have infinite fuel points for aircraft that showed up in an emergency?

Not to mention who in their right mind would take up some thrashed machine maintained for YEARS by zipperheads then loiter hoping it didn't disassemble itself.

Not to mention the carrier probably didn't have that many type-qualified aircrew.

Come back when you've combat turned aircraft IRL or at least asked someone who has.

>Anything shaped like helo is same as all helos, hurf durf

>>34345075
Instead they did "Le Surrender" and "I-it's Not Like We Run Away And Sitting On Our Fucking Isle Crying For Help"

>>34346458
You might have missed the highly successful part of the evacuation. Just sayin'...

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>>34341625

>>34345400
>>34345348
That was just one carrier. There were others. They all had to dump the Huey's overboard because they kept getting so many. Eventually they told every pilot to let everyone off on deck and then take the Huey out away from the ships and ditch them. Pretty crazy watching the video of the pilots putting their Huey into hover and trying to get the fuck out of there as fast as possible.

Here you can read about Major Buang landing his Cessna full of his family on the USS Midway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Chambers

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>>34346504

That dude get halved?

>>34345691
>Gooks
>Flips
Choose one.

t. Not-a-half-Flip

>>34346714
The term originated from the Philippine-American war you dumb ape.

>>34346730
Here's your (You).
Point stands. Flips aren't gooks.

>>34346025
Would want a thread full of vietnam or just Spooky stuff that's happened in war in general. Not like the flesh gait or skin walker stuff. Unexplained stuff that spooked well seasoned enlisted.

>>34346730
Kys

>>34346748
>t.Pinoy

>>34346247
>and like fools the US went along with it because we were "Allies"
At the time, the US felt they had to. There was a chance that France would turn commie, so the US felt it had no choice but to back France's dick swinging.

>>34346136
>muslims lost
Yeah because the amount of refugees have stopped, the amount of terror attacks have been ceased, and western europe as a whole have come out and made efforts to reverse the polices that led to this to happen in the first place... Oh wait no they haven't have they

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>>34347040
>didn't get the joke on the first read through
yeah I dun fuck'd up.

>>34346067
Six years in a combat zone, they were worn to shit.

>>34345691
>machine used for killing
And a killing it shall go, and it's going to kill something that needs to be killed, in the service of the west. I see no problem with that.

>>34346247
Ho Chi Minh was very much a dedicated communist, dude was enraptured with Lenin's work since the late 1920's. Hell he helped to start the French Communist Party. He was no fan of Mao or Stalin but his end goal for Vietnam definitely involved communism. Did you not look up the land reform the North tried to do?

>>34344942
>US trying to make it look like they 'won' when they failed all their objectives and retreated so fast and hard they had to push helicopters off the ship to make space for people.

The North Vietnamese were not "forced to the table". US lost support for the war completely at home and were willing to sign anything to get their troops out. They stopped propping up their friendly south Vietnamese and the North stomped them like they would have the whole time. US being there just prolonged the inevitable while taking massive casualties.

Also the US completely failed to train and equip the south Veitnamese. They were there for 10 years, they could have at least prepared the south for what was coming - but no they wanted to let the US soldiers and pilots work and die instead.

>>34341625
Maybe if you'd won the war you wouldn't have to ditch those helis.

>>34346375
WHERE THE FUCK DID THEIR PILOTS GO ANON
I GUESS THEY JUST DISAPPEARED INTO THE AETHER I DUNNO

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>>34346777
trips demands this

https://archive.org/details/UFODocumentaryHangar1TheUFOFilesSeason2Episode1-UFOsAtWar

>>34341625
Did they at least strip the avionics and engine?

>>34348543
>Prepared the South
We did. We left them with the means, however when Nixon got shitcanned Congress cut off all military aid to the South. This means no more fuel, ammo, or replacement parts for anything the ARVN had in their inventory. The ARVN's performance in the '72 offensives wasn't that bad and with the proper logistics thing would've been different. But that would've required Nixon to not be an over-paranoid ass.

>>34348845
nope, perfectly good choppers shoved over the edge.

>>34345910
What is upkeep for 1000?

>>34346504
>>34346564

That was a crash landing - all survived, only one injured.

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>>34348927
ARVN was a bunch of utter shitters. US was never able to train decent fighting force from locals due to lack of proper ideology for them.

>>34346036
a.k.a the chinese

>>34341625
Because you have to give some space for refugee gooks

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>>34341625

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWN6XGUAhZU

I know Vietnam was a shit show, but got-damnit if the history isn't so interesting and all-consuming.

>>34345151

>They'd pushed the NVA back to their capitol had they not?

Nope. Like i said, the USA never invaded the North, only bombed it from the air.

Also, the USAF bombing campaign also didnt undo the fact that NVA and VC occupied large amounts of Southern areas even after the peace treaty was signed so all in all, like i said before, the treaty was nothing more then a glorified cease fire.

Ive read before a story about scuttleing a chopper to clear the runway for emergency landing when the parking gets fuckered but that could have been bullshit

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>>34346020
Well for one that's a terrorist attack not a war.

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>>34346055
>>34346077
Can you both fuck off

>>34346714
>actual half gook half flip
whoa.

>>34346036
This right here. I know a bunch of Vietnamese refugees and descendants. They are the most grateful people for having been given the opportunity to live here. They would fight and die for this country.

Some even refused welfare right after they arrived so they wouldn't be a burden.

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>>34345061
YEah because clearly these guys could fight against VC's ?

>>34345995
>democrat voting gook

almost all of the refugees and 1st gens are super right-wing, free-market repubs

>>34353077
Don't try to find reason on this website man.
If what you are saying isn't edgy alt right shit no one will listen and you will be labeled as a cuck.
So don't bother having a productive discussion in this website

>>34353041
At least 4 viets on this picture are able-bodied men fit for service. But hey, they are clearly have better things to do instead of fighting for their country.

>>34349706
The nationalist KMT in China had the same problem. Lots of corruption, low morale, most soldiers only in it for the money and they were more likely to run away than fight.

That's why puppet regimes are inherently weak. You've got men fighting for an ideology that isn't theirs and a fight that they don't really care about.

You can see that happening now in Iraq and Afghanistan.

>>34341973
>>34344245

Thats the Rebels hard at work spending your credits, setting up major installations on civilian worlds.

at least when the Empire sets up a base, they do it on a low-population world or a space station.

>>34353338
The war was over, the South was completely routed at that point. Hundreds of ARVN died in the last days as Saigon fell, buying time for others to escape. After the war's end, thousands more were executed, and tens of thousands "reeducated" - staying and fighting for anything more than just the chance to escape was just pointless death.
The NVA was still heavily supported by the USSR and China, while we had left the south on their own, surrounded by countries that backed the North.

>>34347869

Not until he was basically shown the door by all the great powers at Versailles in 1919. The man was a dedicated nationalist who was looking for a way to free his country. The US helped him in WWII and he genuinely hoped they would follow that with pressure on the French. Didn't happen. Just another case of the US making a potential friend an enemy.

Lots of people are communists in this world. When we handle them the way we did Cuba for decades they stay that way. When we work with them they end up with McDonald's in their cities and learn to like the idea of making a profit. Look at China and Russia today. In many ways they're more capitalist than we are.

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>>34348777

won't someone witness my amazing digits?!!

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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>>34341625
If scuttling that helo lead to just one more bánh mì shop here in America, it was worth it. Pic related. I would skull fuck you for one of these right now.

Viet Americans are truly our best immigrants.

>>34355885
S-stop Anon, my mouth is watering already

>>34347869
This. I don't know why people are still so retarded.

>>34355885
I miss Bahn Mi

>>34345995
lel, my parents are one of those `democrat voting gooks', some news: SEA refugees don't vote. They barely even speak English.

>>34355885
im vietnamese american. im sad to say, ive never seen, let alone had duck banh mi before. it does look really good, especially if the duck is just slightly crispy

I wish they'd kept them and surplussed them off, so that we'd have cheap helicopters to deal with communists.

>>34355770
Nah. Just witnessed dem fiiiiine tits.
>>34352895
2nd'd.
Various Viets I know are hardworking and awesome. At least 70% of the chicks are downright fuckable.

Just keep them away from the shit combination of heroin+capitalism+big city, and they're cool.

>>34356197
If we're being specific about this, worst combination is actually SEA + niggers + gambling.

niggatry is an infectious culture, and SEA neighborhoods are back-to-back with them. That isn't to say that they necessarily have huge overlap--Asians have their own culture, parents aren't that stupid and they don't bring each other down, but SEA parenting is mostly hands-off, and impressionable kids are really good at mimicking their environment.

>>34356484
Interesting perspective. I was mostly referencing Sydney's Viet led drug underground. Abbos here don't impress anybody, unlike (I assume you meant) American Negroes.

Still, I'd root 70% of viet women. Amazing potential there.

File: d34f39e1e_139867562183[1].jpg (107KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 500x333px

>>34356142
I haven't had it either. I just figured duck would be really tasty looking for pic purposes. My go to is pate.

>>34342026
Half an hour in the world of aviation is comparable to seconds. I doubt they would have gotten half way through startup before the other heli hit empty.

>>34352667
he hurt?

>>34344856
You know the South Vietnames basically wore us uniforms and used grease guns, M1 carbines and shit right?

>>34344817
This.

Basically this was a humanitarian and just plain having a soul to help other people.

The US navy was not bound by duty or ordered to save those people, it's the fact that believe it or not, not everyone is an edgelord and they wanted to help.

>>34356935
>Viet led drug underground
How the hell did that happen?
Did Australia not have a significant yellow population?
Ours has been around forever so there had already been a sizeable homogeneous ``Asian-American'' culture to adapt to.

>>34342014
Ugh...right in the feels

>>34353422
Then how come Taiwan is still a thing and there were still KMT guys hiding out in Burma till the 60's?

>>34355648
He was still communist even at that point, he had always espoused variations of socialism.
>dedicated nationalist
And also a very dedicated communist, granted he managed to fuse the two rather well.
>Lots of people are communist in this world
And? Just means lots of stupid people who are following one of the worst ideologies on the planet.
>when we handle them like Cuba
They deserve every bit of shit that they're in. Those fuckholes hate our guts and Fidel was more than happy to try and get Soviet nukes on his island back in the day. Fuck Cuba
>Look at China and Russia
Only the former is communist, and in name only. Deng and Zhou Enlai knew Mao was a massive retard and set the stage for China to eventually loosen the fuck out of their economy. They're full on red capitalists today, but society/government is still tightly controlled. Would rather eat a bullet than live there
>Russia
Hasn't been communist in a long time and is a prime example of why planned economies and top down governments are retarded.
>work with them
We can do that today because the Soviets went down. During the Cold War the communists tried their absolute damndest to pull off their bullshit proletarian revolution worldwide and every communist country was commited to that goal. Vietnam after reunification went about sending specialists and advisors to many communist groups all over the world, all to the end of trying to topple the free market countries of the world. Now they're realizing the error of their ways and seeing that capitalism is the only way to run things these days, just took them a few decades of retardation to figure that out.

>>34345910
Weight limits are a thing bro and I dun wanna be the 88N paying for this shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M01RmcKsm2k

>>34341625
you are literally a fucking idiot if you don't know the story behind this picture but posted it anyways.

>>34342051
fucking nuke, always some faget T camping on the roof.