The cognitive dissonance of .40S&W

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>/k/ is one person and only ever says these specific things

I will attempt to defend both points!
10mm was initially adopted because the conclusion the FBI reached was that they didn't have enough penetrating and stopping power per shot
However, they found significant marksmanship issues with 10mm, particularly in high fire rate exercises
So they invented .40 to try and keep some of that 10mm stoppan power, yet still more lethal (on some arbitrary metric) than 9mm
Let's not forget that bullet design and metallurgy was still just starting to figure out how to make really good quality hollow point bullets back then
Over the last 30 years it's become very clear that shot placement and number of well placed shots matters most
Nowadays, .40 is too snappy to compete with 9mm as far as accurate consistent follow up shots go, and too weak to really be notable as a big guy tough cartridge like full power 10mm

I've never noticed the "snappy" meme when shooting my .40 caliber HKs.

I have a beretta PX4 in .40 that I got for the right price (free). It used to feel snappy as fuck when I was a kid, but now, years later, it seems soft shooting in relation to my Sig 1911.

>>34312193
HK was the first company to make a gun from the ground up designed for 40, with the USP

Rappers always mention .40 cals. Is it because they're more readily available and cheaper ?

>>34312253
It's because rappers are generally niggers, and niggers are idiots.

>>34312253
Law of supply and demand, if less people buy .40, it drives down the price, so it would make sense if they're portrayed as cheaper.
There might also be a cultural thing with thugs that put .40's at the top of their lists

>>34312253
Because a .40, rhymes with 40oz

>>34312561
>Law of supply and demand, if less people buy .40, it drives down the price
You might want to go back to those Econ 101 notes you took and make sure you aren't talking out of your ass here.

>>34312561
I think perhaps the surplus of .40 would drive the market price of them down

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>>34311992
.40 hate thread go

>>34312253
9x19mm is mentioned way more.

There's no reason for it to exist, it has no advantages or even major differences over 9mm and .45ACP, 10mm atleast has a purpose being significantly more powerful and thus suitable for bears and whatnot

>>34312132

Women can't handle 10mm

So they dropped it.

>>34313045
Kek
>>34313060
True
>>34311992
There's nothing wrong with 40. You get marginal gains over 9 in expansion and penetration while giving up marginal capacity (usually just 2 rounds) and slightly more muzzle flip. The "40 beats up your gun" is a meme propagated by butt hurt glockfags. If it wasn't for the price difference the two would be equal in trade offs. People who shit on either one are being contrarian faggots

>>34312700
the price of .40 is already way down, especially .40 guns. I can get used g23s and g35s for sub 200 at a store where i live since they handle the police surplus for the city and noone EVER buys their .40 cals. they literally have crates of glocks in .40 they just cant sell.

>>34312253
maybe because forty is easy to rhyme with

>>34313080
There are reasons for it to exist.

>larger caliber, slightly more powerful round than 9

>smaller cartridge than 45 means you can stuff more in a magazine, and firearms the size of a 9mm can chamber 40. Not so with the 45

It was a better choice back when 9mm hollow points would often fail to expand/ fail to penetrate when they did. Now that technology has advanced they offer a little more penetration and a little more expansion, given the same hollow point is used out of the same gun. Personally I prefer 45 and 38 super, but I can see why someone might prefer the slight advantages of 40

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>>34311992
>I need 48S&W because...

Thx but I have pic related and it will go through more windshields ET CETERA with less deflection than your trashy 40meme yankee marshall....

>>34313127
>You get marginal gains over 9 in expansion and penetration
>in fact, 9 has better ballistics than .40!
Lol, right on cue.

S-should I just stay with my .45

>>34313289
I was saying the opposite dummy

Read it again but slowly this time, okay?

>>34313326
So you agree that .40 is the obviously superior cartridge.

>>34313312
Yes

147 grain 9mm Ranger T
>13 inches of pen, two thirds of an inch exp

230 grain ranger t
>13 inches of pen, EXPANDED DIAMETER IS A FUCKING INCH!

That's a 51% larger expanded bullet. These results occurred after denim

HSTs are similar in difference but both expand slight less

>>34313228

You know that Fiocci Monoblock garbage performs like complete ass in denim layered gel tests right?

>>34313345
It's not an obviously superior or inferior round to 9mm, like every other round it has its trade offs and advantages.

>>34313352
What about .40?

>>34313357
it expands just fine in denim covered clay for me.

>>34313379

Sounds like you have a fool proof plan for the next time you are assaulted by clay. For the anons on /k/ interested in self defense against human adversaries I'd suggest avoiding the cartridge.

>>34313363
Just keeping it apples to apples, 40 ranger t expands to about 3/4 of an inch.

For me that's not a big enough advantage to add another caliber/ firearm to my lineup but to each his own

>>34313352
Here is the test I drew the 45 performance from

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U-K9krp7fnE

Once I find a suitable testing area, I'll test these and the HSTs through my 5 and 4.25 inch 1911s through clear ballistics gel and cotton t shirt/ 4 layers of denim, and then compare the results to the same HPs in 9 through my hi power and post the results on /k/

>>34313149
>noone EVER buys their .40 cals

There's a reason for that. My local pawn shops are full of .40's. I fucking hate it.

>>34312561
>Law of supply and demand, if less people buy .40, it drives down the price

That's the opposite of supply and demand.

>>34313926
>When you don't know the difference between short run and long run demand curves.

Holy shit it's Econ 101 you brainlet

>>34312656
>People don't buy .40
>Demand for .40 decreases, because no one is buying
>Prices drop
How are you this retarded?

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>>34313926
Hey everyone!

Come laugh at this stupid faggot!

>>34311992
40 is a king size 9mm. It runs at the same pressure and about the same velocity with a bullet of the same sectional density. The only difference is that it's bigger.

Most people who try to justify 9mm are talking out their asses.

.40 is the most garbage handgun round ever made and used. I'm embarrassed every time I hear that somebody I know even slightly owns one. Not for them, but by them.

>>34313045
Thats funny, but that is literally what /k/ thinks about .40. I love it because I like penetration.

9 is fine.

.45 is great too.

.357 is king.

>>34312132
>shot placement
This is a red herring. Of course shot placement is important, but it is not the ONLY thing which is important. Impact area is important too.
>>34312132
>40 is too snappy to compete with 9mm as far as accurate consistent follow up shots go
Recoil has no effect on accuracy, only on shot recovery time. If you need to shoot multiple times, that's God's way of telling you that your bullet is too weak.
>>34313127
27% more impact area is not a marginal gain.
>>34314117
How about 41 magnum?

>>34314133
It's a pistol round more likely than not your going to need more than one shot. You're assuming there will only be one assailant and that in the heat of the moment you won't miss.

41 magnum is fucking stupid, just go 44.

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>>34312132
attempted and failed, did you rip that blurb out of Guns and Ammo or do you really believe all of it

.40 recoils like 9mm when you have a pistol that was built for it, the snap bitches are shooting crap like .40 Shields and Glock 27's.

>inb4 38 super faggot shows up to the conversation

>>34314266
What's wrong with 38 super?

If fiocchi or s&b sold it for 28 rather than 35 cpr, I'd probably get a 1911 chambered in one.

>>34313959
>>34313975
>>34314012
Alright, geniuses. Explain why the gun stores are still keeping the guns in stock if nobody buys them? In an ideal economic system, guns that don't sell should get scaled back in production, merchants buy less stock of them, and prices go up, in line with "the law of supply and demand." This is what happened with .32 caliber handguns and ammunition, which have now become rare and relatively expensive because they sell so poorly. Compare .32 with .380 to see just how inexpensive a pocket gun can sell for if it's chambered in a caliber that people buy.

Now if .40 caliber handguns sell so poorly, then why do gun stores keep stocking them and selling them for lower prices than 9mm handguns? You are literally retarded if you think they don't sell.

>>34314311
SHORT RUN DEMAND CURVE

LRN 2 ECON FAGGOT!

>>34314311
I'm a computer science major with a minor in applied economics. You are replying to idiots on /k/ who most likely lack even a basic high school education. Please re-evaluate your life, and understand that somebody else on the internet being blatantly incorrect doesn't give you a greenlight to humor their autism. You are correct though, by the way, just funny that you even spent the time arguing with people so obviously stupid (or trolling?)

>>34314330
He's correct in the long term assuming that ammo manufacturers have had time to adjust production to changing consumer preferences. As an Econ minor you should understand that in the short term decreasing demand will lead to a reduction in prices. Wether or not 40 is selling or not is a different discussion entirely of course

>>34314371
Also just to add you're "credentials" mean absolutely nothing on an anonymous image board. That is compounded by your relative lack of understanding

>>34313959
>>34314371
>>34314321
The problem here is that you lack the background knowledge to reach an accurate conclusion. Handguns chambered in .40S&W have cost less than handguns chambered in 9mm FOR YEARS. You might have just got into guns last year and assumed that the price difference is some sort of recent phenomenon associated with the FBI's decision to switch to 9mm, but .40S&W handguns have been sold for cheap since long, long before that.

>>34314311
Mostly because a LOT of police departments initially went .40 b/c dats the FBI standard. Of course over the past couple of years most have been switching to 9mm along with the FBI. This (before the change over) leads to a lot of people following the same mentality, "it has to be good as the FBI and police use it!" and buy into it and thusly defend it. I always loved seeing .40 shields in every single gun store a couple years ago and yet 9mm shields couldn't be kept on the shelf as they were selling so fast. Of course this goes back to what another anon said earlier of the shield like a plethora of other pistols was never really designed for the .40 and thus doesn't handle that well with it.

Does anyone have a link to the FBI study that showed with modern defense ammunition there was only a 2% chance of missing a disabling shot (CNS/Heart) by .1" (9mm vs .45).

>>34314029
Capacity and gun weight.

>>34313352
Thanks. .45 it is

>>34314415
Even if they have to continue selling them at lower profit margins than 9 due to decreased demand, it is still more cost effective than selling off the tooling for 40 cal ammo and pistols. Short term is a relative concept my friend. I get where you're coming from though

>>34314419
Difference between 9 and 45 expanded diameter in most ballistic gel tests I've seen is more than .1 inches. Try 2.5 to 3 times that figure. That would also create increased cavitation through vital organs, thereby causing a more rapid decrease in blood pressure (though this would most likely not be an "instant stop")

>>34314419
Also I wasn't arguing that 40 cal is or isn't rapidly declining, just that
>>34313926
was being retarded

>>34314728
>Even if they have to continue selling them at lower profit margins than 9 due to decreased demand, it is still more cost effective than selling off the tooling for 40 cal ammo and pistols. Short term is a relative concept my friend. I get where you're coming from though
STOP. You're lumping production with distribution with sales. It doesn't work like that.

>>34314635
>gun weight

Lol nope

>capacity

MUH 2 extra rounds!!

Actual negatives to 40 would be the 3-4 cpr premium over 9mm, and the increase in muzzle flip which ceterus paribus will lead to slower follow up shots.

>>34314852
All of which are interconnected. If lowered profit margins arent severe enough to necessitate the selling off of capital, the manufacturer will continue to pump out 40s, and so long as consumers are still buying the ammo and pistols at the reduced cost, gun dealers will continue to stock them.

This of course depends on the relationship between the manufacturers and their distributors.

>>34314917
Interconnected doesn't mean you can just lump them together.

> and so long as consumers are still buying the ammo and pistols at the reduced cost
The argument is that .40's don't sell at any cost. If gun dealers aren't making any money, and the inventory is just going to sit there, then they would logically stop ordering the guns into their shops, stopping the flow of goods at the point of sale.

>>34315088
That wasn't my argument

The inventory is moving but at lower profit margins for gun stores.

>>34314199
If you are worried about missing, then that's even more reason to use a better caliber since every extra shot you take is another chance to miss. Think of it like golf. Try to get the job done in as few shots as possible.

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>>34315357

>>34314082
>I love it because I like penetration.
spoken like a true woman

>>34311992
Nothing you said is cognitive dissonance.

>>34312059

What is "sage"?

Entering "sage" (by itself) into the [Options] field while replying will cause the thread not to bump to the top of the page. Contrary to popular belief, a sage is not a downvote, and should not be used as one. "sage-bombing" or announcing that you've saged a thread may result in a ban.

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>>34317405
He's basilposting

You must be new here

>>34313975
There becomes an abundance. It developes a stigma. Shops are left with overstock. They have to move it, rock bottom prices commence.

You've never worked retail.

>>34314029
Spoken like someone talking out of his ass

>>34314082
I bet your boyfriend appreciates that

>>34314874
Those 2 extra rounds always make the difference when people compare the fnx 45 with the usp 45.

Why shouldn't they count here faggot. I'm getting two more rounds with so close of performance to your shit round you get super buttflustered and go autistic in explanation of why your choice is marginally better.

>>34315513
I bet you he'd take two extra rounds in every one of those guns in a heartbeat.

>>34318403
>15 vs 12 rounds
That's an increase of 3

Not to mention it doesn't always make a difference. Just because some faggot on /k/ said the increase in capacity made the FNX far superior doesn't make this a universal decision.

Go try to suck your own dick for an hour or two and never return

>>34312561
Rappers were talking about .40s long before last year anon. It best a LEO standard for a long fucking time

>>34314302
Nothing. Not in a properly setup gun anyway, but that hasn't been an issue for decades. People may bitch about the semi-rim but it's fine

>>34317431
But that's Ros....what are you trying to pull

>>34313096
The women never even had a chance to find out. Go read up on the history if the FBI procurement process for 10mm and subsequent pistols at the time. The 1076 didn't get very far at all

>>34314063

You're so insecure that someone's choice in round caliber makes you feel embarrassed for yourself?

That's an easily shattered ego right there.

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gee it's almost like those are two separate groups of people with differing viewpoints

>>34320694
/k/ is just one person, though

Is Stephen Molyneux operator and /k/ esque?

When the happening occurs I can totally see him putting on his chain mail and helmet and bracing his long sword for battle.

>>34322231
He would yell "not an argument" at his combatant, try to debate with the man on his reasoning for fighting, then subsequently get shot.