Why aren't pump action rifles more popular than bolt actions?

>>34308428
>see a deer
>oh man dis is gun be gud
>CHACHINK
>deer runs away

>>34308428
because of spitzer cartridges

>>34308428
if you need a follow-up shot you're either hunting with a BB gun or you're a shit shot

File: 20170620_000633.png (355KB, 720x715px) Image search: [Google]

355KB, 720x715px

>>34308579
>innawoods without a hot one in the oven

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYRRzus9wto

Good option for ban states, I guess?

>>34308428
>of follow up shots didn't matter then why do semi autos exist
Excellent point then.
If follow up shots matter, then why do pump action rifles exist?

A bolt gun is usually more accurate, more reliable, cheaper, you know, the works.
And when follow up shots are needed, a semi auto is usually cheaper, easier to use, just as if not more accurate, and more.

Like leverguns they are an intermediate that finds a lot of the problems of both and then runs with it, whilst providing few if any of the pros of both.

>>34308647
>having a trigger with a >.5 ounce pull

File: James_Earl_Ray.jpg (81KB, 425x625px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 425x625px

>>34308428

>Why aren't pump action rifles more popular than bolt actions?

Because killing niggers is frowned upon more today than it was back in the day.

>>34308668
>Semi auto cheaper than pump
Oh look a retard

>>34308588
OP's pic has a detachable magazine you fuckwit.

File: WP_20170616_12_55_42_Pro.jpg (2MB, 3264x1840px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3264x1840px

>>34308428
Cos they're more expensive. That's pretty much it.

The only benefit you gain over a bolt gun is faster follow up shots, which semi-autos are better at anyway. This comes at the cost of accuracy (though the Remington 7600/7615s are free-floated and quite accurate, they're not up to scratch of a good bolt action and are not user friendly for shooting long distances) and simplicity.

They are good guns, there's just no market for them. Why would I buy a pump-action if I can buy a semi? If I want accuracy I'd buy a bolt because they're cheaper and easier to shoot.
Though I prefer pump to lever, levers are pretty cheap too.

If you live somewhere where you can't have semis, they're great.

Pic related is my abortion.

File: 1493634423551-a.jpg (49KB, 775x837px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 775x837px

>>34308831

>>34308668
Lever guns have been the standard in North American hunting for ever senpai. Only reason bolt guns are more popular now cos of cost.

For innawoods applications lever guns are better than bolt all things considered. Bolt actions are only more accurate when benchrest shooting.

Pump action rifles wherent popular because lever already existed. Not only that but the pump mechanism isn't as strong as lever or bolt to handle hotter smokeless cartridges.

>>34308428

They don't really have a purpose. They're only marginally faster than bolt-action, and if somebody really cared about that they'd be using a semi-auto.

>>34308831
>Comes at the cost of accuracy
Doesn't have to. The bolt is the same, you're just adding a pump forend instead of a bolt handle.
>Simplicity
Again, it's just a piece of plastic
>Why would I buy a pump action if I can buy a semi
Cost.
>bolt is easier to shoot
Literally what

>>34308865
>pump mechanism
The pump is just what cycles the mechanism, if you attach it to a standard bolt action it's still stronger than any old lever action.

>>34308815
Literally what.
>>34308865
Whiiiiich was my main point.
They're more expensive and do nothing better than either of the other two options while also being less convenient.

>>34308902
>the pump is just what cycles the mechanism.
Except it isn't? If all you want is a straight pull bolt action with some long ass slide, that's fine. Adding a bar to move the bolt carrier, adds unneeded complexity which is what a straight pull with slide would be like.

Open up a pump action shotgun and look at how the mechanics work. It's not like a bolt action at all.

>>34308912
Price has more to do with the fact not as many manufacturers make them.

Economics of scale and all that.

>>34308902
>>bolt is easier to shoot
As in off a bench, if shooting any reasonable distance, especially off a bipod, bolts are much easier. Pumps are fine offhand.

You also don't just strap a pump to a bolt action and there you go. There's a bit more involved. Bolt actions have fuck all in them. Even simple shit like the little arm that stops the action moving rearward is extra metal and extra money.

A pump action on the inside is basically a straight-pull action with a long ass bar that protrudes 4 inches out of the receiver and a action locking bar.

>>34308959
So...adding a tube from a hole in the barrel to the carrier and a spring is more complicated?

Regardless, As of right fucking now, if you walked to a store with $300 you could get a semi auto or a bolt action in just about any caliber that isn't something retarded that fudds like for probably less than half the price of a pump action rifle.

>>34308673
then get a heavier trigger if yours goes off every time you shoulder it

Reading more about it, it looks like a perfectly viable option for rifle actions, but they never where popular so they aren't popular today.

Seems like it has nothing to do with performance overall.

>>34308995
>A pump action on the inside is basically a straight-pull action with a long ass bar that protrudes 4 inches out of the receiver and a action locking bar.
Precisely why I'm confused as to why there were so few pump action rifles in history. A bit more complex than a straight pull but offers much faster rates of fire. Should have been a WW1~WW2 kind of thing but nope, bolt actions only until everybody skipped to semi autos.

>>34308944
>Except it isn't?
Yes, it really is.
>adds unneeded complexity
A fucking sliding forend
>It's not like a bolt action at all
Good thing I never said to copy any part from a pump action shotgun except for the pump itself.
>>34308995
>Extra metal and extra money
Considering budget shotguns get along fine with plastic action bars, there isn't a lot of cost involved at all.

>>34309057
>adding a tube from a hole in the barrel and a spring
A reliable automatic design involves more precision manufactured/fitted and high strength parts than a manually operated one.
>less than half the price
>what are economies of scale

>>34308588
>because of spitzer cartridges
nice meme

>>34309146
When you use rifle cartridges you have to reinforce everything, you can't just have a plastic action bar it would probably break under recoil like remington 870 trigger plastic thing is known to break and a 12 gauge makes less pressure than a 22.

It's not that it's not doable. It's that there's really no reason you'd want one and as such no market exists.

>>34309119
Notice how only a few nations fielded straight pulls?
It's because it's not a great leap from a straight pull to a semi auto.
You'll notice the older semi autos tended to use a tilting block; a lot of them took influences from the likes of the M95.

That said, it is far easier to forget cams entirely and just go with a bolt that is twisted by someone turning it through a level instead of a canning system.

Hence bolt actions being more common than a straight pull.

Pump rifles never became popular because nobody fielded them in any number, therefore no surplus, and no people with cheap pump guns to sing their praises and demand new production of things that worked like them.
So. With few countries fielding them, no flummoxed to tout them as the best thing since sliced bread, and very few models to choose from, it's not wonder that nobody ever has or ever will give a shit about pump rifles.

>>34309119
For wartime use they're probably harder to machine out quickly. Simply more parts. That 4 inches of bar and locking bar are still more material. Not to mention most have entirely steel receivers, whereas a bolt action you can get away with just mounting the bolt+magazine well in wood.
Once you get mud and shit stuck in that receiver it's much harder to get out as you need to basically rip the guts out the bottom of the receiver. Whereas a bolt action you pretty much remove the bolt and anywhere where dirt could get stuck is immediately visible.
They are pretty reliable though, even when dealing with dirt and shit.

I use a pressure cleaner to clean mine.

They're not as easy to use prone either. Which apparently was important at the time.

If you're willing to spend the extra time and money manufacturing pump-actions then you might as well manufacture semis.

A good chunk of hunting shots are done from a sitting or prone position. Try a followup from that position with a pump action and you see the problem.

Here in germany, many hunters use straight pull repeaters for some kinds of hunting now (because silly laws about semi-autos). I suspect most of those would be replaced with pump actions if not for fudds being prejudiced against those "american rambo guns".
There was even one company creating a reverse pump action. I can only assume it's to be different from a normal one so the fudds will accept it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeStu4mGjro

>>34308428
>If follow up shots didn't matter then semi auto hunting rifles wouldn't exist
What if I told you that you can get a follow up shot with a bolt action?

>>34309168
>I use a pressure cleaner to clean mine.
How many psi?

>>34309146
BUT A SLIDIG FOREND ISNT JUST A SLIDING FUCKING FOREND.
It requires the extra milling for a cam, a pump to be designed and manufactured, a mechanism to prevent it from sliding out of battery when it is being fired, and a quick and easy method of disassembling it all for cleaning!

A bolt gun ticks all those boxes!
It's easy to make, has little to no extra complexity (yes, the mechanism to make it stay in battery is quite complicated compared to a bolt gun) and they can be pulled apart to be cleaned with a trigger pull or a lever.

Pump rifles never became popular because they sucked.
I'm honestly shocked that pump shotguns have stayed this long, though I suspect it's related to the plastic/paper hills of shotgun shells requiring tube mags to be stored loaded for long periods of time.

>>34309163
>it would probably break under recoil
Rifles have had many polymer parts for a very long time, if you bolt it right there wouldn't be an issue.
>there's really no reason you'd want one
Follow up shots.

>>34309174
What if I told you that they're harder and slower to get?

>>34309175
2000, nothing fancy.

>>34309171
That gun is actually pretty neat.

>>34308693
I don't hate Michael King because he was black. I hate him because he was red. James Ray did nothing wrong.

>>34308428
Because bolt action durr guns got perfected 100 years ago. While pump action durr guns weren't a thing until 50 years ago.

>>34309182
>extra milling for a cam
Wow a piece of plastic with a hole in it
>a pump
Wow a plastic forend
>a mechanism to prevent it from sliding out of battery
Wow a small plastic latch
>a quick and easy method of disassembling it
Wow how difficult
>has little to no extra complexity
Also slower follow up shots

>>34309183
>follow up shots
Lever gun
Straight pull bolt action
Lee Enfield
Semi automatic
A pump Shotgun firing slugs or saboted slugs

Also:>>34309182
Extra machining is extra machining.

File: 1473749202000.jpg (828KB, 2048x1536px) Image search: [Google]

828KB, 2048x1536px

>>34309212
>I have no idea how mechanism work
>making friction and movement elements out of plastics

File: perfection™.jpg (2MB, 3976x2646px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3976x2646px

>>34309224
>friction and movement elements out of plastics
Hmm I wonder what's done that before

>>34309275
It would be closer to making the slide from plastic than the frame.
It takes direct pressure (the out of battery mechanism does, that is)

And it provides nothing for all the work you'd do to make it.
It wasn't popular to begin with, and as a result it's not going to become popular because it wasn't there when it would have been useful and now we have something better.
>>34309212
A cam would also need something to ride in the hole.
And even on a Glock they have metal inserts in the plastic to help it take friction and pressure better.
The disassembly of a pump action rifle is going to be roughly the same as a pump action shotgun. That is to say "you FUCKING DONT"

And once again.
If follow up shots actually mattered to you, you'd use a semi auto.

The only reason bolt won over pump was spitzer and Winchester.
Lever guns filled the niche, then bolt guns were pushed into that same niche.
Pump isn't popular today because we've had over a century of bolt guns.
Pump shotguns stuck because the shells stacked nicely.