World without rifles

>>34277809
What about artillery, and large arms mounted to vehicles? I would imagine more fighting would be done with them.

>>34277838
Must be smooth bore.
So not a ton of change, but a fair of it.

Frankly, aren't a lot of large caliber things for tanks and artillery smoothbore either way so as to be able to better fire HE and phosphorous rounds?

>>34277809
Define "rifle". If we're going by the ATF's definition, I'd arm everyone with "pistols" equipped with sig braces.

>>34277885
We're going by wether or not it can use plastic hulled ammunition and is smooth bore.

Hell, if you want to use rifled slugs, do it.
But this thread isn't an "atf pls go" thread.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchisson_Assault_Shotgun

Its a meme gun but w/e

most would probably be mounted with M320's

A fuckton of Saiga-12's for non NATO forces

And the Hillberg insurgency weapon might of actually of been relevant

>>34278016
Interesting.

Would .410 also be more relevant because muh capacity?

>>34277809
So we would use rifled slugs and get much the same effect with much larger wounds and closer ranges.

>>34278165
Okay then.

How would tactics change?
Do you think that .410 would become the go to "assault rifle" round (minus the rifle part)
How would we achieve long ranges without rifling and obscene pressures?
Would box magazines still find favor because of plastic cartridges, or would brass cartridges be a more common thing in order to make box mags a much more viable thing?

>>34278191
You would probably get much the same results as this timeline.
.20 and .30 caliber mini ball style slugs in a box mag with brass cartridges.

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>>34278152
IMO .410 would be considered a PDW round akin to 9 millimeter.

http://www.410handguns.com/410_gel_results.html
>im not drawing conclusions from this but it seemed interesting

28 gauge might become popular as the "Intermediate cartridge"

12 gauge would still be used a lot as the larger size really helps with specialty ammunition

Just my opinion

>>34278279
And what might become of body armor?

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>>34277809
pic related is the .366TKM cartridge, legally a shotgun cartridge, vid related is the VPO 209, legally a shotgun with paradox rifling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB8Ui1UE6uM, Russia it seems would take the win

How about gunpowder never existing in the first place ?

Smokeless powder could still exist but I doubt anyone would investigate it if primitive guns didn't exist.

People would probably develop more fin-stabilized rounds and forget that rifles even existed, while going about using their new pseudo-rifles that act exactly the same way.

If by rifle you mean no accurate, long ranged ballistic (or energy) weapon, then we'd just build bigger and faster shotguns.

>>34278312
Interesting.
Isn't that meant for smoothbore SKSes?

>>34278326
The thread was originally started in the vein of "oh shit, all rifles disappeared, what shotguns (current production) now fill the roles we had rifles in" but I guess it's gone towards "what happens when we make all our military rifles smoothbore with shotgun shells as our primary ammunition"

>>34278332
yeah those are the VPO 208, also paradox rifled, VPO 209 (in vid)is the logical next step
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6noQGe-XQA&vl=en

>>34278297
Im not an expert on body armor but most current body armor can stop conventional 12 gauge threats but not necessarily specialty AP 12 gauge threats.

https://youtu.be/THMF85h9X84