who wins, mig 31 or f15?

>>34272764
Why are the wing tips of the F-15 formed like this? This seems to be such an rare design choice, compared to the straight ends.

>>34272764
Based on historical data, F-15.

>>34272784
Rcs probably or somthing to do with center of lift

>>34272791
>muh 100-0

>>34272764
Based on tech.char. MiG-31.

>>34272863
Please elaborate a little bit senpai

>>34272764
Quickly, someone fire up CMANO and pitch the latest MiG 31 against the latest F-15C or F-15J.

A Mig-31 is a slower Mig-25 and F-15s have shot down plenty of Mig-25. Really the only thing a Mig-31 pilot can do against an F-15 is to run as fast as possible and pray.

Mig-31 is faster, have more powerful radar and real long range AA missiles.

Mig-31 also can fly in stratosphere

>>34272888
>Mig-31 is a slower Mig-25
It's other way around

>>34272891
but those ultra-big extremely long range BVR missiles are designed to take down bombers and other relatively slow moving targets, not nimble fighters

>>34272902
Nope. Mig 25 has a higher top speed but Mig 31 can sustain better because of better airframe.

>>34272913
They are created to down any visible on the radar flying targets, including low-altitude flying cruise missiles.

Hell, even in dogfight the F-15 will lose, because Mig-31 can do manoeuvrers much faster

>>34272891
MiG-31 has lower g rating, so it'd have to win at long range.

>>34272913
And that. It's an interceptor, not a superiority fighter.

>>34272835
>muh 100-0

More like
>muh each time a Mig25 has gone up against a F-15 it has gotten its shit pushed in

>>34272937
each time when pilot fucks up*
MiG-25 have F15 kills

>>34272929
>Hell, even in dogfight the F-15 will lose, because Mig-31 can do manoeuvrers much faster
That is physically and factually impossible since a Mig 31 has both lower G-rating and T/W ratio than a baseline F-15

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>>34272764
neither

>>34272929
The way that the Russian missiles loft themselves high in the air to get extended range means that they are much less effective against maneuvering targets. They were designed to shoot down bombers.

>>34272929
>Hell, even in dogfight the F-15 will lose, because Mig-31 can do manoeuvrers much faster
>The MiG-31 is limited to only 5 g when travelling at supersonic speeds.[6] While flying under combat weight, its wing loading is marginal and its thrust-to-weight ratio is favorable. However, the MiG-31 is not designed for close combat or rapid turning.

>>34272946
Here's where the thread jumped the shark and went full vatnik.

>>34272764
F15, no contest.

>>34272970
expect 20 replies with yelling to follow, including but not limited to
-lol burgerfag
-((( ))))
-boeing-shills
-muh propaganda
-monkey models
-monkey pilots

>>34272764
F-15 can actually turn, so yeah.

>>34272764
that depends what the criteria are

if it's a friendly race the MiG will probably win for example, but things might get a bit tortoise and hare and the MiGGer might stop and sleep because it got overconfident at which point the F-15 could take the lead.

>>34273053
Fuck, made me chuckle

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>>34272764
who wins, screwdriver or chisel

>>34273071
>implying you cann't use a chisel as a screwdirver

>>34272764
On what distance and with what support? Mig-31 is a part of IADS. Ground based radar gives it a course, target and firing solution. Pilot basically needed for taking of and landing procedures.

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>>34272764

Isn't the MiG-31 basically able to outrun the missiles and bullets that the F-15 tries to sling at it?

Seems like the F-15 only has a narrow window of possibilities to engage a 31.

>>34273426
Is there any MiG statistics but only when the plane were flown by Russian pilots?
I mean just look how shit at war Saudis are, they would probably fuck up the good KD ratios of USA planes if they actually ever used them.

>>34273447
Technically, if the initial separation is very high and both have detected each other, the -31 could fire all of its R-33s or R-37s, assuming the latter actually exists, then turn away and fuck off on full burner so that the eagle never gets in range for an AMRAAM shot.

>>34273536
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20

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>>34272764
Neither

>>34273447
IIRC the max speed of the Mig-31 is just slightly above Mach 3 at high altitude.
Depending on the range the both planes "See" each other it should be able to just speed away and keep out of missile range.
Outrunning a launched missile? Probably not.

>>34273562
Interesting, so it's not only about the pilots. Thank you kind anon

>>34273447
>Isn't the MiG-31 basically able to outrun the missiles and bullets that the F-15 tries to sling at it?

In a question of pure speed? Not by a long shot, but being able to fire from outside of the F-15's range and run gives them gives the Eagles a very small engagement window if any.

>>34273544
That's basically what Iraqi MiG-25's tried doing during Desert Storm, it generally ended with a lot of missiles being launched on both sides and no kills. Whether the results would be any different relies on how good R-33/37's are at killing fighter sized targets, and whether the Americans would even bother firing missiles in retaliation.

>>34272929
You know, without any data to back it up I always thought that the Mig-25/31 is not terribly maneuverable. It just seems to be made to go fast in a more or less straight line, but Idk.

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>>34273536
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eritrean–Ethiopian_War
Ukranian/Post-Soviet mercs on both sides, MiGs were BTFO by Suchois.

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>>34272764
neither

>>34273544
Not with SARH (r-33) you don't. 37 is for AWACS, not fighters. Very low ph/pk against fighters.

>>34273599
Yeah it's also about tactics.
>4 mirages were so close to each other so soviets had only 2 dots on radars.
>then mirages jammed migs radio
>soviets pilots found out they're encircled by 8 mirages and 4 phantoms

>>34273621
Unless it's a game of lawn darts, no.

>>34273620
I always thought Sukhoi were better than MiGs for some reason.

>>34273617
Instead of titanium materials the migs are made from heavy steel. When first discovered through Intel services, the US had a heart attack and greatly overestimated the mig-25s abilities. Thus, specifications for the f-15 were drawn up to the similar estimated (but very wrong) specs of the mig-25.

>>34273656
Interesting bit of info, thanks.

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>>34273536
Vietnam war statistics show that MiG kick American ass

and they was flow by rice nigger

>>34272946
Where did those kills happen?
>each time when pilot fucks up*
Then it seems the issue is with the plane AND the Soviet style training

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>>34272994
You forgot
>muh official facts from the Syrian Government/ USSR

>>34273620
>>34273649
To be fair they are two entirely different types of aircraft, the Mig-29 is a tactical frontline fighter and the Su-27 a air superiority fighter.
Sort of like comparing an early F-16 to F-15.

>>34273676
Not even, by 1969 they were mostly on the defensive. Not only that but when ever the US went on the offensive in NV the US had control of the skies, and suppressed the SAM and AA sites on the ground.

>>34273544
>then turn away and fuck off on full burner
It can't. R-33 is SARH missile and target must be tracked by Mig's radar to be hit. R-37 and AIM-120 have own radar, but tracking while missile at midcourse results in much higher probability of hit (especially maneuvering target), though this is not necessary. Serial production of R-37 (RVV-BD) started several years ago.

>>34272957
The J-20 is a nice looking plane.

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>>34272764
How much retarded a person must be, to create questions like this?

Do you know for what purpose the F15 is intended? Do you know for what purpose the Mig 25 and Mig 31 has been developed?

Yes these aircraft are in their own way connected, the Mig 25 was an impetus for F-15 development... But these are machines with a diametrically different designation.

Please, focus on more important questions e.g. Why your parents had sex, when they are siblings.

>>34273668
I require a sauce.

This is cute.

>>34272946
>inb4 RT

>>34272764
The fucking og F-111A would defeat the 31 in everything from a dogfight to BVR

Comparing it to the GOAT is laughable

The 31 is outclassed by dozens of types

Shit bait thread

>>34273447
>Isn't the MiG-31 basically able to outrun the missiles and bullets that the F-15 tries to sling at it?
I swear to god this place is for 12 year olds. The 25 and 31 could hit mach ~2.8 for brief periods. Mach 3+ is 100% urban legend
>b-b-b-but I heard on mug gaming forum that they could go past mach 3 b-b-but the engines would get fried

Fucking retards

A fucking SR71 couldn't accelerate away from an AMRAMM or Sidewinder launched at their respective effective ranges and launch speeds. Not a chance. It could "outrun" ground launched missiles while at altitude due to the time it had to alter course and accelerate in addition to ALREADY being flying at mach 3+ etc.

They can't turn worth a shit. The 25's electronic suite was shit. The 31 radar and es was "upgraded" to basically 1970's western levels with a "look down shoot down" radar that works in name only. The F-14A and radar from 1960's design still blows it away.

>using A2A cannon at anything other than dogfighting distances and speed
I'm going to go outrun some bullets away from this shit thread now

>>34274036
Not him but the dynamic range of the AMRAAM reduces considerably against a mach 2 target heading away, does CMANO model missile kinematics? Because this is a time I'd like to see a truly valid scenario that still stands

>>34273668
TOP KEK, even though its cancerous weaboo shit

>>34273676
Vietnam war statistics show that American training was complete ass. Fortunately, poor training can be remedied.

>>34274036
alright thanks for your input

>>34273668
>>34274177
>>34274232
This is equally parts adorable and disturbing for some reason.

>>34274791
Dont worry, I've masturbated over it already

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>>34272888
what about the mig-31 long range missles

>>34272891
Speed is not everything in combat. It's all about Energy management

>>34272835
>>34272784
Reduces wingtip drag.

>>34272994
spotted the lockmart shill

>>34275081

>"""lockmart shill""" accusation
>In thread about F-15, owned by the major LM competitor

"Only pretending to be retarded"

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>>34275081

>>34272946
No F15 has ever been shot down by any other aircraft ever in the history of the world.

They have only ever been lost to ground fire.

>>34273734
>serial production of R-37 started several years ago
And yet one has never been seen in the wild and the best official guesstimates on how many the Russians have operational is between 0 and 10.

>>34272764
based on missile options and radar. F-15 hands down. The mig 31 was almost crude. But it wins in the gotta go fast category. More in concept like the English Electric Lightning. Both are interceptors. The mig 31 did not need to beat the f-15 was never designed to beat the f-15. it was designed to a fast moving SAM truck to cover the vast northern frontier and kill bombers. its missles only really needed to be able to hit b-52s.

Furthermore the f-15 was designed as a response to the 25/31 when the US thought it was a super fighter. When one landed in japan we were not worried anymore.

But it did its job well

And the Recon versions of it were great. Basically a poor man's blackbird

>>34273676
Yet the US still managed a better KDR against Vietnamese and Soviet aircraft even including losses to AA fire.

>>34272957
Fuck off, Jiang.

>>34273595
Outrunning missiles is basic tactics. Missiles have very limited burn times so general strategy against air to air missiles is to exit the fight at pre-determined ranges if you're spiked and suspect missile launches because the missiles run out of energy very quickly once their motors are empty.

>tactical fighter vs. interceptor
Who wins, a hussar or a 12th century Crusader knight?
What a dumb thread.

>>34274036
>A fucking SR71 couldn't accelerate away from an AMRAMM or Sidewinder launched at their respective effective ranges and launch speeds.
See >>34276977
Even if the target maneuvers to a beam aspect, the missile has to go so much farther that it runs out of all energy before coming close to its target so you don't even need to perform any last second actions to defeat it.

>>34275018
This. Straight edges will have significant more rollup than tapered edges.

Winglets are better, but a dubious design choice for fighters.

>>34272957
>chinese """"""quality"""""
id surprise me if it even got of the fucking ground

>>34272929
The F-15 has never lost a dogfight.

The Mig-31/25 has lost plenty. Many of them to F-15s. This isn't even a question unless you're a delusional Vatnik, it's a matter of historical record.

>>34273053
kek

>>34274980

when you mount a missile that big on a fighter, it's not designed to shoot down another fighter. same with the AIM-54. it's for counter bomber or counter HVAA.

>>34277299
Could you use the missile with nuclear warhead?

>>34277402

not really. nuclear-tipped air to air missiles were really for the days when you had no guidance out to astronomical ranges and you had one missile to eliminate an entire squadron's worth of godless commie hordes streaming over the Bering Strait in order to protect God, Uncle Sam, Mom, apple pie, and the American way of life.

>>34272764
>le bait

f-15, read a book or something

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>>34272876
I know that's kind of a meme but I did.

(Also its an interceptor vs and air-superiority fighter so what did you expect here guys)

Just a 1 on 1 dogfight with standard load outs f-15 won the every time. One of which the MiG 31BM (2016 version) even fired a R-37 first.

I did a quick 'scenario' in which would be the most 'likely' clash between an f-15 and MiG 31-BM

Scenario version 1 was a Russian MiG-31bm (2016 version) At high altitude cruising over Golan Heights at maximum speed in defiance of Israel's "airspace"

Israel takes this a provocation and launches a modern (2008) Israel version f-15c to interdict the MiG.

>what happens next will shock you (not really)
>pic related

Same thing happened when the F-15 was over Golan Heights and the mig-31 went to intercept it.

>>34272929
Brotip: Faster doesn't mean you can turn better.

>>34273620
>Sukhoi
>MiG

>>34277299
The AIM-54 could shoot down a figher despite being a brick. The Iranians had no problem with theirs, and the US only ever fired something like 4 with 2 or 3 of them failing to fire for various reasons.

>>34278546

it does to a certain point.

>>34278611

not that it can't shoot down a fighter, but when you're shooting it at near RAero there's not a ton of G-available in the endgame and dragging or notching is enough to easily kinematically defeat it. if you're waiting until a more heart-of-the-envelope shot, you might as well shoot an AMRAAM/Sparrow so you can shoot a lighter missile that costs less and you can carry more of them.

>>34273830
korean manhwa titled "flight highschool"
http://flight-highschool.tumblr.com

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>>34272764

The last thing the Mig's pilot hears is Spanish guitar. Remove Belkans.

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>>34272764
>teleports behind you at mach 3.5

>vaporizes you with a stupidly large missle and 10,000 rpm gun

>>34273621
Those are piloted lawn darts not air plane anon...

>>34272764
probably the F-15, every time. F-15 has TEWS/ DEWS in it. well its a little different in the C mod, but i digress.

>>34278963
only in slick/ clean config. Good luck with that gun.

The MiG-31's biggest advantage is that Russia hasn't given it to Muslims yet so the Israeli's cant blow it up with F-15's and we all have a good laugh

>>34277695
israel and russia are on very friendly terms now. Dumb scenario

Just some bizarre vatnik fantasy, probably a muslim vatnik at that

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>MiG31's are ugl-

>>34277695
So the MiG-31 survived?


>>34280333
But the Soviet forces that fought the Israelis also lost. Didn't they do worse than the Egyptians?

>>34280342
They relationship will deteriorate as Hezbollah and Iran take a more prominent role in Syria.Then there's always the possibility of Russia selling MiG-31s to Iran and Iran attacking Israel if the US and China go to war.

>>34280346
Ain't horrible, but I prefer the F15.

>>34281566
>Soviet forces that fought the Israelis
wut

>>34281621
It pretty much went like this:
>at some point during the everlasting sealclubbing that is Israel-Arab wars
>Egyptian/Syrian pilots flying Soviet planes get their ass handed to them each time they go against Israeli fighters
>Complain to the Soviets, "your planes sucks compared to US planes"
>Highly experienced Soviet advisers tell them "nyet, plane is fine. You are just shit pilots"
>Soviet advisers go up with Arab planes to show the sandpeople how its done
>Proceed to get raped in the same way as the Arab pilots
>Now even the Arabs laugh at them

Whats even more fascinating is that North Korea has fought against Israel

>>34273644
kek

>>34272994
Also,
>All the F-15's kills were against Arabs so somehow don't count

>>34273237
>implying you can't use a screwdriver as a chisel

>>34281566
>So the MiG-31 survived?
It clearly says the missile hit.

>>34274232
>>34273668
>>34274177
what are those called and where can i find more
>>34274791
agree

>>34272915
The Mig 25 does not have a higher speed, only a higher altitude because it's lighter

Both planes will reach the limits of turbojet propulsion at mach 3.5, the mig 31 will last signigicantly longer above mach 3 however.

>>34282613
The mig 31 also has massively improved acceleration, with engines that produce 50 percent more thrust than the mig 25. It can break the sound barrier at sea level which the mig 25 cant.

>>34272970
Lol burgerfag

>>34272970
Why would anybody think that a Slavic aircraft could compare to the (((f15))) used by Jehovahs chosen

>>34272970
Boieing shill

F15 stealth eagle never

>>34272970
>muh vatniks ruining muh mandarin macauhuitl crafting forum

Gb2 pol with your ameriboo propaganda

>>34272970
Yeah the mig 25 never scored any f15 kills, but only the stripped down monkey models have ever been used, flown by monkey pilots

>>34282613
There's zero way you're getting a MiG-25 or 31 to mach 3.5.

>>34282946
Why not?

The engines are good for it with the mig 31, and the structure can handle up to mach 3.5

Id say mach 3.5 is an absolute hard limit (the engines wont function past that speed and the structure cant take it)

Mig 25 cant do mach 3.5, I'd bet around mach 3.3 in optimal conditions

>>34283038
Source on the D30 being able to run at mach 3.5?
Source on the structure being able to handle 3.5?

>>34272929
So then why didn't it every time it got the chance?

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>>34272957

I know, right?

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>>34273441
>>On what distance and with what support? Mig-31 is a part of IADS. Ground based radar gives it a course, target and firing solution. Pilot basically needed for taking of and landing procedures.
You forgot to add, that a number of MiG-31`s, due to powerfull long range radars, are working as composite AWACS substitute, sharing targeting data. So, theoretically, if we are talking about 1x1 combat on short to medium range, F-15 have all the chances. If we are talking about long range engagement, especially like 10x10 planes or so, MiG-31 have my bets. Still, that is a stupid comparisson of interceptor to fighter. Different roles, different designs.

>>34277022
There are multiple accounts of SR-71 pilots accelerating/changing course to avoid SAMs. There were even a few close calls.

>>34283038
>3.5
You're a goddamn retard.

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Ok next question
SU47 modded to 5th gen vs YF23

>>34285773
>You forgot to add, that a number of MiG-31`s, due to powerfull long range radars, are working as composite AWACS substitute, sharing targeting data

You forgot that the F-15A could do that and the C did it even better than the MiG-31 could hope to.

>>34281621
Google Ramon 20

>>34286033
No shit. The evasion tactic was to accelerate and outrun it, not maintain speed altitude and heading.

>>34272764
well it was proven mig 31 can down a f-22
so f-15 would be a piece of cake
but the real end for usa air force is the j-20

>>34286118
In the end su47 is dope as fuck.

>>34286178
>Google Ramon 20
all I get is that dead jew astronaut Ramon

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>>34286276

>>34286458

I guess >>34286178 was thinking about Operation Rimon 20...

>>34286484
>Operation Rimon 20
thanks kommando