PDW

Furthermore:

Why not arm average soldiers with guns chambered in real PDW calibers? They could carry more ammo and still be effective at a certain range.

They're meant for dudes who need small guns. Most guys still carry around the normal size rifles

>>34261960
Because refitting a standing military costs billions upon billions of dollars, and that's a retarded ass idea.

That French operator who was killed in Africa a year or two ago had a MP7 all fitted out.

>>34261957
>ultimate all purpose gun
>max range of 200 meters
>regular engagement range is between 200-400M

Kindly deprive yourself of oxygen. The functional people need it.

>I watched a clip about a guy explaining the MP7 and he said that the ammo was basically the best of pistol calibers mixed with the best of rifle calibers.
Ah, I see you've encountered what we in the industry call a "marketer".

>>34261957
>*clip

Combining the best of pistol and rifle ammo is like combining the best of roast chicken with the best of icecream - either way I aint swallowing that.

>>34261957
>clip
REEEEEEEEEE

>>34261957
MP7 was so shit that H&K did everything they could to torpedo PDW development and make NATO NOT adopt P90.

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>>34261957
>mixed with the best of rifle calibers.

>>34261957

I have two at home because HK said I was worthy.

>>34261957
I instinctively read it as "I watched a mag"

It's not the best of pistol or rifle. It's really just a necked pistol round - it has slightly less energy than 9mm and is designed to fit in a grip. As a pistol cartridge it's fine, it has quite some velocity which will make it easier to hit over distances, and slightly higher capacity. Compared to an intermediate rifle round however the range is lacking and you don't get high fragmentation like various 5.56x45 loads. Intermediate rifles are statistically better at stopping people than pistols

>>34261957
>why isn't it being sold in the civilian market
Because there are two things preventing it from doing so: an MP7 with a 16 inch barrel would look fucking retarded and 4.7HK has to compete against 9mm, .45, and 5.7x28 while at the same time competing against 5.56, all of which are astronomically cheaper to buy.
>>34261960
>why not arm average soldiers in PDW caliber
A) HK torpedoed the contract by bitching and complaining so much they scrapped the competition
B) it's a logistical nightmare
C) arming a fireteam with 2 M4s, a DMR, and an LMG is better than giving everyone 4.6 carbines

>>34261957
>Are PDW the future of firearms
This post is like it's from 2005 or so.

>>34261970
Guess I'll never use an mp7

Doesn't have the best of rifle calibres it would be good in urban european/western warfare eg under 100yds vs body armour but it is dogshit in the middle east in Iraq and Afghanistan firefights regularly exceed 400yds the .223 nato cartridges struggle at that range and we are seeing more nato nations for sand niggers go back to the .308 nato cartridge

>>34261970

It was four years ago, I know because in my senior year of highschool my history teacher showed us a picture of his body (for current events) and the French exchange student got EXTREMELY bottom befuddled over it.

How time flies...

>>34261957
>I watched a clip about a guy explaining the MP7
>I watched a clip
>clip

>>34261957
they have shit terminal ballistics. like the guys who got issued them in US SOF all say you have to sprinkle like 10 rounds into a guy's chest if you want him to die in a timely manner

>>34262991
In theory, but actual use of it has been, anecdotally, underwhelming. Claims of non-existent stopping power, having to magdump just to put one guy down. Putting a tiny spitzer bullet in front of a tiny brass case makes for a very weak cartridge.

Got lucky and was able to fire a couple mags through one. Super fun, and could definitely see its use for close protection against armored targets. I wish it was available for the civilian market, but I can't really see the need for 4.6 in most defense situations, unless home invaders start wearing body armor. Probably better to just have a short barrel AR or something like an MPX if you are looking for a compact PDW.

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>>34261957
>Are PDW the future of firearms?
They Failed to catch on when the p90 was introduced 27 years ago. They failed to catch on when the mp7 was introduced 18 years ago. In the time that has passed, there has been very little enthusiasm for the concept altogether

So I'm going to say no, they are not the future of firearms. They have a few niche purposes to fill (ie vehicle operators and SWAT teams) but they are not the future. not by a longshot

>>34261960
>Why not arm average soldiers with guns chambered in real PDW calibers?
Because...

>The the cost of a single p90 or mp7 costs more than two m4 rifles
>The ammo also costs nearly twice as much
>the round is piss weak when compared to a 5.56 round
>Effective range of a 5.56 is 500 meters, effective range of a 4.6 is only 200
>most firefights take place at ranges great than 200 meters
>The smaller size of the gun does make it lighter but also leaves it less modular. there is less/no space for accessories, modifications, grips, lights, laser pointers, bipod, underslung shotgun/grenade launcher
why would anybody want to trade out for a gun that costs more and is all around a less effective weapon?

Cont...

>>34263108
even if they do start wearing body armor, AP 5.56 will do the job with better terminal effect

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>>34263177
>They could carry more ammo and still be effective at a certain range.
True, but soldiers not being stocked with enough ammunition is generally not an issue with 5.56 rounds and certainly not worth the loss of effective range that comes with the trade off

>I watched a clip about a guy explaining the MP7 and he said that the ammo was basically the best of pistol calibers mixed with the best of rifle calibers.
For his own sake, I hope he didn't mean to convey that they were better than, or even comparable to, both. I already explained why they are inferior to intermediate rifle rounds but lets look at pistol rounds

>4.6 is faster, more accurate, provides superior range, is better at penetrating body armor and provides more ballistic effectiveness than a 9mm ballpoint via internal tumbling and fragmentation
>9mm ballpoint penetrates better when firing through cover
However
>There are current talks in the US DOD to switch from ballpoint 9mm ammo to hollow point, which would Render the 9mm the more ballistically effective.
>Body armor has been seldom encountered in most of the conflicts fought by NATO countries since the end of the cold war
>The ranges at which pistols are intended to be used (under 50 meters) Renders the 4.6 advantages in accuracy, speed and range negligible

Also, everything above also applies to the 5.7 round

TL;DR Saying PDWS's are comparable rifles is pants on head retarded. Saying they are better than pistols/carbines/SMGs intended for CQC is not unfathomable, but PDW'S probably not be replacing them any time soon due to the cost not being worth the marginal advantages over what is currently being employed

>>34263177
>SWAT
most SWAT teams these says are running SBR's, I don't see how a PDW would be an improvement.

In fact my agency used P90's for a short period on the SWAT team (and was the first municipal law enforcement agency in the country to do so). That didn't last very long and we switched back to SBR AR's.

>>34263089
Weak against soft targets aye but against armour (what it and the p90 5.7mm) are designed for it puts a large cavity in a man and often bounces back off the rear plate its no good against soft targets at all but against nearly anyone wearing body armour it is superb

>>34263232
Well shit, man. The PDW's have even less niche applications than I realized.

I heard SWAT teams and other paramilitary were switching over to them some time back. Guess they realized it was a meme since the last time I looked into the topic

>>34263256
5.56, even from a 10.5" barrel provides far better terminal ballistics than 5.7, which in turn is better than 4.6.
Additionally, full auto is really frowned upon in domestic LE due to liability issues. Our team runs LWRC 10.5" AR' with a giggle switch, but other than qualifying on FA once a year, I don't think they've ever actually used it, and my Agencies team is involved in a decent amount of shootings.

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>>34262895
>B) it's a logistical nightmare
>C) arming a fireteam with 2 M4s, a DMR, and an LMG is better than giving everyone 4.6 carbines

>>34261957
because the p90 is better

>>34263663
2 M4's, a 18" SPR type rifle, and a SAW isn't bad. It's a 5.56, only the SAW takes a different ammunition source, and even it can take 5.56 mags

>>34261957
it only exists because hk got booty blasted over the fact that people liked the p90

>>34262912

>2005

The P90 is from the 80s, faggot

>>34264859
Dude, you don't get it...
I juxtaposed the two points for a reason.