Bullet-Counting Firearms

>>34221902
Instead of having to bring bullets, you also bring other stuff that could have been more bullets.

>>34221902
You could do this with today's technology, fairly easily. But why would you? It introduces complications into a system that you want to keep as simple as possible.

>>34221912
You could make it really light, but the real answer is that you don't want to add the weight to the gun itself, not your body. A couple of ounces of ammo isn't going to do much, a couple of ounces on the gun will probably be noticeable.

>>34221968
Non-critical complications, it's a subsystem. Worst thing that happens is it fails and the gun functions like they have been for centuries. The actual problem would be ensuring that it doesn't miscount.

>>34221902

Too much added complexity for very little gain.

In a real situation, you fire until empty and reload while your buddies cover you. If you're planning on an ambush, you top up anyway. If you really need to check, some mags have indicators drilled in

>>34222035
Yeah. You don't need a accurate count, all you need to know is if you are low. Windowed mags are good enough.

Life is not a video game anon

>>34221902
It's a non issue that is solved by using mags with windows anyways. And think about all the bullshit adding an electronic display would bring to a rifle:

>electronic parts, duh. wiring, board, display, mounted in their own case
>battery
>"hurr just go solar!" now you need solar panels....on a gun (see where this is going?)
>display has to be bright enough to distinguish clearly in the middle of the day and night
>can be cumbersome since it adds bulk to the rifle and make it unwieldy
>might fuck up sight picture
It's basically a solution no one wanted in search of a problem

>>34222174
>battery
Yeah, a fucking battery you mong.
>might fuck up sight picture
If you're retarded
>can be cumbersome
Gonna need actual specs, but probably.
>display has to be bright enough to distinguish clearly in the middle of the day and night
Only actual criticism, and it's solved by a tiny potentiometer.

The actual measuring system would be the only part of this that's heavy.

>>34222235
You are missing the fact that a windowed mag does what you want done, without the addition of any moving parts, electronics, cost, use of use, training and maintenance

>>34221968
Maybe for training it could have use. Especially for most static weapons such as a mk19 it could be worth it.

>>34222265
>any moving parts
Show me the moving parts on this theoretical device.
>electronics
okay
>cost
okay
>training
To fucking read? Are you an idiot?
>maintainence
okay

Windowed mags don't display the number of rounds left. There are very good arguments against this, you're just not making them.

>>34221902
Very little use for all the added complexity. If I have time to worry about how much ammo I have in the rifle after shooting, I have time to put a new mag in I know is full.

>>34221902

oh look, this thread....again.

>>34222287
You think this is a good idea because you are unable to comprehend the effort required to implement it and the actual little value it would be

>>34222287
Windowed mag: Look at the side of the gun, see you have a 1/3rd of a mag left. Cool.
Display: Look at the side of the gun, see you have 13 rounds left. Cool.

Its the same fucking thing

Not to mention the cost of the rifle would probably quadruple if you add electronics into the gun case. Shit idea.

Only reason to have any sort of display on the gun is if it's electric in some form like a railgun or whatever. The other scenario is if you have a needle/air gun that uses Co2 or compressed air which already has gauges that use no no electricity.

>>34222287
>training to fucking read? Are you an idiot?

How else are Marines gonna know how?

Why not count your shots?

>>34222406
If you are alone and only have one mag then yeah sure count em. Otherwise its a waste of brainpower you could be using to target and kill russian vietcong muslims

>>34222322
No it's a terrible idea, the effort required to implement it was one of the "good arguments" I was talking about. Designing the mechanism to measure how many rounds is left, building it en mass, and actually procuring it are the difficult things however, not the "display" (read, 14 LEDs) or batteries, jesus fuck. Red dots and scopes run on batteries, and yes, have brightness adjustments, wow.

>>34222329
Mmmmm, why do I have 39 round mags?
Unless you meant, "approximately one third" in which case yes, you would be correct, but "approximately one third" and "ten rounds" are two very different measurements.

>>34222432
If you wanna be autistic in a firefight then go ahead and sign up, the airforce will be happy to give you a broom

>>34222432
are you playing devil's advocate and arguing for argument's sake?

I refuse to believe we have an actual tacticool mallninja here

>>34222465
>No it's a terrible idea
Okay fucking fine. I'll add being unable to read to the list of legitimate criticisms.

Super steampunky idea, but: what if you made a mechanical version of this, with a rod in the magazine that moves up and down with the spring and connects to a dial with numbers and an indicator window.

>>34222432
The issue is there are only three states that matter for a magazine, full, not full, and empty.

If a magazine is not full and I am entering a situation where a full mag is better, then I will replace it with a full mag. If I don't have time for that then I will shoot the not full mag until it is empty then replace it with a full one.

Whether the not full mag has 5 or 25 rounds makes no difference.

>>34222493
That would be the way to do it probably. Like a savage 99.

No military wants to pay extra for the dubious benefit, and because of that, few civilians will buy it, either.

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>muh complexity
It doesn't need to be some rube goldberg gizmo. It cam be entirely solid-state, even. Less moving parts than the gun!

>small accelerometer
>microprocessor, to identify gunshots based on recoil from accelerometer
>small button to slap and indicate you reloaded (a reload detecting system is possible but adds complexity)
>E-Ink display (minimal power use), lights up for a second or two with a small red LED whenever it "ticks" off a shot

No moving parts, small enough to fit into an M16 carry handle, and could be powered for a week by a watch battery.

Any questions?

>>34221902
The future of firearms are firearms that count rounds, automatically clear malfunctions, and have optics with onboard IR/NV and rangefinders and targeting computers. All the user has to do is make the kill decision and reload.

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>>34222530
>and could be powered for a week by a watch battery.
>adding cost and yet another fucking battery that would need replacement weekly for EVERY RIFLE equipped with it

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>>34222547
>costs less than a full magazine of 5.56
>no downside to just fucking ignoring it and letting the battery die

Luddites are literally cucks

>>34222493
Yeah, how is that actually going to work?

Really what you're looking for is something similar to a micrometer. Rack and pinion, rods tend to get in the way, it will either be sticking out the top empty, or out the bottom full. And, that would probably work, but it would be heavy and you're carrying a fully redundant system for every magazine you have on you.

>>34222499
"I don't want one" is not a criticism of the system itself

>>34222530
Already thought of this, private, or more realistically, lieutenant, dumbfuck loads 29 rounds, rifle reads 1 when it's actually empty. Or someone reloads a magazine that is partially empty. You have to actually count the rounds in the magazine or there is basically no utility.

Also the accelerometer would be triggered by you dropping it, unless your "microprocessor" is constantly evaluating data to see if it fits within a predefined standard for "recoil" in which case, have fun with that.

It would be easier to have contacts in the magwell to detect reloads, and contacts inside the buffer to detect the action cycling. It's simpler and more accurate, but you still have the issue of it not counting the rounds in the actual magazine.

>>34222560
>thinking military procurement pricing abides any logical conventions
>training all soldiers to use new device bought for way too much money, then allowing all the batteries to run down and make sure they are never replaced
this sounds exactly like something that would be implemented if the right company made contacts in Congress

>>34222174
>mags with windows
Reminds me of a certain French Firearm that was notoriously shit.

>>34222587
>Training
ALRIGHT BOYS LISTEN UP

WHEN YOU SHOOT THE GUN THAT LITTLE FUCKIN SCREEN WILL SAY 29

IF YA SHOOT AGAIN IT GONNA FUCKIN SAY 28

WHEN IT SAYS 0 YOU AIN'T FUCKIN SHOOTIN

SO PUT IN A NEW MAGAZINE, SLAP THAT LITTLE BUTTON ON TOP, AND IT'LL SAY 30 AGAIN

WHEN IT STOPS FUCKIN WORKIN TAKE THAT COVER OFF THE TOP AND PUT IN A NEW WATCH BATTERY

IF YOU LOSE THE FUCKING COVER TAPE IT OVER AND REPORT TO ME SO I CAN FUCKIJ YELL AT YOU

IS THAT CLEAR?

training complete, insert tape 2

>>34222590
Polycarbonate window != Fucking slots cut into the magazine

Also the chauchat was pretty decent, no bully. Not everyone can compete with Lewis.

>>34222605
in the long run the expense of windowed magazines is greater than the expense of a bullet counter

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>>34222590
?

>>34222611
I'm gonna call bullshit on that one, sorry.

I'd say that you will see this when it's integrated into smart system that are part of the weapon anyway. If you've got a battery powered smart gun sight, diagnostics systems, rangefinder and espresso steamer there's no real reason not to include shit like a ammunition counter.

Set it so if all that shit can fail and leave them using their M16A9 or whatever with iron sights just like their grandfather.

>>34221902
>durrr it's impossible to make a small component that need only display 2 digits and just subtracts with a simple senor
>a solar powered optic that needs to keep zero?
>No problemo
>an infrared laser pointer?
>need that wieght
>a stupid flashlight that only DEA agents would ever actually use in combat?
>can't forget that

Less digital ammo counters are the future
More that they want one that can track every individual round
We could totally have them now but they'd have to be dumb and only track when the bolt cycles
And counter that resets to whatever mag size you program it too
Adding a +1 if you changed before it hit zero
but of course even I can see the problems
>what happens when you use a half full mag?
subtract and add buttons but that's an unnecessary step when loading
Only useful in a very specific low ammo situation where you'd also have time to set your counter
>unnecessary component because of mag windows
You are correct
Especially considering PMAGs have an extra red line that tells you exactly how many rounds you have left

All they would be capable of doing with current technology is taking a few seconds off a ammo check

As for the future? Well if the caseless concept goes somewhere with quad mags it would be nice to have counter for the potential 150 round mags

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>we will never have a firearm with comfy mechanical counters again

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Just tape one of these to the side if you feel like you really need to.

Then just push it every time you shoot.

Once you get a feel for counting to 30 you could use it to keep track of how many people look at you like a shit cunt.

>>34222711
>hurr it's impossible with our current technology

Potentiometer in the magazine that is attached to the follower, mated to the actual computer via contacts in the magwell.

Measure changes in resistance to determine the position of the follower, and therefore exactly how many rounds are left. No continuity constitutes a mag change.

Now, this is too expensive to be viable, but if you actually think determining how many doohickeys are in a box even approaches difficult with our "current technology" you're retarded. You're actually retarded anyway, learn how to form a complete sentence.

>>34222783
Where's this super easy simple design then doc?
Or do you believe in a magic fairy sensor that exists in your head as "working"
the retard here is you and I'm phoneposting;)
Please,
Grade
My Posts.

>>34222783
Also dipshit
>hurr this technology is impossible
Was implying another poster.
Not opinions of my own,
Try Reading Compehension;

>>34222560
>shoehorning in a useless gizmo that nobody really needs and that will most likely be useless most of the time because nobody can be bothered to replace its battery
>b-but muh shiny LEDs

>>34222802
>>34222819
>;
Fully retardomatic

>>34222602
I know you're being ironic but some people in the military need to be talked to like this.

>>34222858
Nobody on /k/ ever thinks that the people who shoot the most in real life care the least

Retard levels in this thread are flying off the fucking charts. I could have sworn I'm on /v/.

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>>34222879
PUNCHTUATION.

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>>34222855

>>34221902
Actual bullet counter=overcomplicated
Action cycles/trigger pulls counter=fairly simple
with same effect

>>34222459
kek, fuckin vicious

spring platform with an arrow pointing at numbers on magazine?windowed mags would be cheaper though...

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>>34221902

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It would be fairly handy. At least an indicator when the mag is low/out of ammo, even if it's not an explicit round counter. I can't find the picture any more but I saw a concept where the round counter is a grid of dots that go down as the ammo goes down, and then changes green-yellow-red so you can estimate your ammo with a glance. Something like that where you can glance and see "good enough" or "needs more"

>muh complexity
Not a single one of you fucks has any idea how electronics works. Stop posing.

>>34221902

Pic Related is because in Halo all their shit was digital and even had cyber linking to display the sight picture on someone's hud.

> So the gun is programmed to know how many rounds are in a fresh, sealed magazine. And every time you reload it assumes a full mag so it resets the counter. Every time it fires it deducts one. So it would count ammo inversely rather than measure how many shots are in the mag.

>>34221968

You could do bullet tracking but it would mean modifying the mags with a tiny bit of circuitry and for it to work right with the tech we've got it would need to be imprecise.

You would have metal contacts at intervals of every 5 rounds on the magazine, alot like a clear window does to show you how many is left. When the follower moves past it the current jumps and it registers on the bullet counter.

This would be the simplest way to do it without complicating things much. The only complication would be the bullet counter itself.

>>34221902
What advantage would a full bullet counters have over a simple low ammo warning light? The low ammo warning light seems like it would accomplish the same thing while taking up less space, be less complex (simply attaching a small magnet to the magazine follower and having a reed switch on the side of an AR-15 magwell would be enough), and would probably get the message to the soldier faster than reading a number off a display.

>>34222329
The whole purpose of having a more complex notification system than a windowed mag is so that the operator doesn't have to remove the rifle from their shoulder to check and can easily check at night.

>>34222573
>>34222530
Here's an idea: pressure sensor in the magazine floorplate. Communicates via Near-Field-Communication to the counter. No button to slap, accurately reads number of rounds in magazine, and could literally be just an aftermarket pmag floorplate.

You could even have a calibration button, for when the spring wears out. Fill the mag to 30, boop the button, empty mag, boop the button again, and the microprocessor uses this as new data for what a full mag's pressure is vs an empty mag.

>>34224585
Pressure sensor too inaccurate.

For a floorplate modification; this would work better: Use a simple wire attached to a ratchet that is hooked onto the bottom of the follower. As the follower rises up it pulls the wire and turns the ratchet, that is what counts the rounds. After reloading the mag you just rewind it with a few twists and its good to go again. If you really want to make the most use of every action, let the manual winding recharge the tiny battery of the counter.

>>34222783
I could do this with an attiny, button battery, and two small 7 segment displays. The potentiometer in the mags would take a little trial and error but the idea is simple. All together it would be about 1x1x.5 in and mount on a rail, could even be integrated into iron sights

>>34224473

>>34224473

Not a single one of you fucks arguing for a "mag counter LED" knows how the military and actual combat fucking works.

We don't need to know dick about

>muh electonics

to know that it's entirely fucking unnecessary and would largely be ignored.

Not only that, most mags I have for pistols ALL have mag counters on them, as well as a lot of AR mags available today.

Notice how the military still uses the most simple, effective, and sturdy design?

What you are doing adds everything every military ever doesn't want.

> complexity
> cost

Whether or not your /v/ery fa/g/got ass is willing to accept it, adding a device JUST TO COUNT FUCKING ROUNDS DOES ADD COMPLEXITY while at the same times OFFERING ABSOLUTELY 0 PRACTICAL ADVANTAGES

Besides, where the fuck do you ever see ANYONE in ANY military saying "gee bill, wish I knew exactly how many rounds I have left in this one mag of mine"


> Stop posing.

You are autism personified.

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>>34224682
Here's a pic, it includes minimal change to magazines and reciever. Contacts between mag and reciever would be simpler than shown here

>>34224812
See: >>34224571. While a full round counter may be a bad idea, a simple low ammo warning light could be added with a minimum weight and cost increase without increasing the complexity or failure rate of the gun it's being added to, and would allow a simple heads up solution for checking how much ammo you have left even in low/no light situations.

>>34221902
There are a couple simple shock sensors that bolt onto a rail.

No need for integral electronics or modded mags.

Not that counting rounds is very useful anyway.

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>>34221902
For all the people doubting this will be a thing, the HK433 will have one.

>>34224563
I'd do a pressure sensor on the underside of the bolt. It'll always say you have less ammo than you really say and be a gauge on how worn out your mag spring is.

Or a variable resistor down the side of the magazine that the follower touches, and you measure the impedance.

>>34225255
That's completely different. Those round counters work like the odometer in your car and count the total rounds fired throughout the life of the gun so that armorers can more easily keep up with maintenance schedules.

>>34222287

>Show me the moving parts on this theoretical device.

And how do you think the firearm would count the rounds? You either need a mechanical system (weight/durability) or an electronic system (RFID / laser) - which would have reliability issues given fouling/heat.

Oh my god you're all retarded. There have been mags that keep your round count for you for years, they even change color at the number to let you know how low you are without reading a number fuck. Retards.

>>34222016
I'd imagine that'd be easy as long as you kept it physical and not digital.

Add a tab on the follower that interfaces with something in the gun, giving you an accurate and hard to glitch reading.

Might be fragile though, and easily gummed up by mud and such.

>>34225255
>keymod

Ema countdown mags

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNsZJJzIu_g&app=desktop

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>>34222222

>>34224585
>>34224627
This is actually a thing already, has a magwell attachment too. Just gotta have 10 billion floor plates or followers.

>>34227140
>Just gotta have 10 billion floor plates or followers.
???

You could just attach the device to the top end of the spring, no need for a new follower.

>>34227155
So 10 billion devices to attach to magazines same principle pretty much.

>>34225369
So modify that system to reset with each new mag and have it hooked up to a small display.

>>34227218
What if you're reloading from a mag that isn't empty?

>>34221902

Here free idea for any entrepeneur who has capital to built this.

>small object the size of a ipod shuffle with a big touch screen, which you can take off the rifle to charge (or make it solar)
>you type in the type of weapon it is, or the magazine count
>its triggered by a decibel limit, so only bullets fired by your own rifle (and sound of rifle fired) are counted, it then subtracts from the maxium and displays it on your screen

Knock yourself out.

>>34222406
My man!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLmStxxzhkI

>>34227435
>the size of a ipod shuffle
implying i am going to carry all that extra weight for something that is basically useless.

Have it built into the optic

>>34227435
>put in partially loaded mag
>shows full round count

This is why clear mags are more useful.

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>>34227598

>>34227604

Why would you carry around a partially loaded mag?

>>34227435
Nigger, just put a piezo near the mainspring or something.

>>34227625

Thats retarded cracker.

>>34227598
>all that extra weight
nigga ipod shuffles are tiny as fuck

>>34227621
Shit happens.

>>34227621

Because you did a tactical reload earlier?

>>34227629
Put it somewhere where the recoil impulse can trigger a little counter.

Maybe in the stock.

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everyone always goes the wrong direction with this. it shouldnt count how many rounds left, it should count how many rounds fired. this eliminates 99% of the complexity

simply have a simple circuit consisting of a single wire and contact points on the back of your bolt. when the bolt cycles, coming back and hitting the other contact point, a simple display counts up 1.
if you want to get fancy, have a Piezoelectric Generator attached to the bolt, so simply firing the gun powers the device itself. the only other thing you need is a reset button, which you could do again, another simple circuit of a single wire and two contact points on the mag release.

instead of counting down, and needing a way to know how many bullets are in a mag, you simply cycle the action, so you start at one, and count up to 30. when your out or near 30, it resets when you remove the mag. if your putting in a half empty mag, its not going to say "30" and count down. it just counts up

no batteries, a cost of around 1-2 bucks if mass produced. the only thing here of any complexity is the LED screen, a buck each if purchased alone

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>>34226960
Anon is right these things already exist

>>34227812
This right here. You should know how many you loaded in the mag, and it's the firing that makes things confusing under pressure. Count up would work without all the unnecessary nonsense of keeping track of whats in the mag.