Wehraboo Thread

>>34197386
They lost and never had a chance of winning.

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>>34197386
Can we post/discuss SS members too?

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>>34197386
WaffenSS<Stosstruppen
Wehrmacht<Deutsches Heer
Bavarian Corporal<Kaiser Wilhelm II

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Hitler was a retard and should been killed after the win over France.

>>34197386
What are some facts that wehraphobes do not want to hear?

>>34197444
More exactly, after the Dunkirk fiasco.

>>34197444
>>34197548
If it was your choice, who would you appoint to be the Fuhrer then?

If the Germans had won we would be terraforming Mars by now, but instead we've got degeneracy.

>>34197584
me

>>34197584
Erwin Rommel

The Holocaust happened and the Soviets had the superior army

it took the combined forces of the whole world to taketh em down. three decades later they were already more wealthy than most of their former enemies.

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>>34197386
German tank technology post 1938 is largely based off borrowed Czech designs.

>>34198224
Even if it did they have valid points about how it ought not to have
>millions of bodies to burn, with nearly nonexistent fuel
>no ash or human remains found in the soil at supposed death camp sites
>ridiculous accounts by people who both were confirmed there and those that later admitted that they weren't
>all Stalin had to do to beat the Nazis high score was turn off the food to Ukraine and wait
You can see where some might smell bullshit.

>>34197584
Wilhelm Keitel
Due to being the highest officer and already being in control of the Wheremacht
the risk would ofcaurse be power going to fatty Geobles. Now don't get me wrong Geobles isn't the tard he's made out to be but he clearly had no aptitute to handeling large organisation.
My wet dream would be Speer, but he's just everyones muh mircle production minister noting that would point to superior leadership or war managment potential.
The most bovius advantage to Wilhelm Keitel is that would be more inclined to go back to more WW I war goals and not get the whole holocaust going.

>>34197386
they would have won WW2 if they just attacked russia first

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>>34198265
>attack russia
>win
i don't think so

>>34197410
why did people listen to himmler? He couldn't meet the sport/ physical standards of the SS and he had zero military experience. Dude was clown shoes.

>>34197386
Wehraboos are suffering from a lack of confidence resulting in the need for positive identification models in a martial context and a lack of socially accepted identification models due to their general political leaning.
In the case of publically vocal wehraboos, they also suffer from autism, precluding them from understanding that social isolation will result. (Autism is also usually the source of their lacking confidence.)
Also, they generally lack a nuanced understanding of the historical realities and the pointlessness of their admiration for it, but that's normal for all kinds of fanboyism.

Source: Used to be a wehraboo.

>>34198166
>terraforming Mars by now

Highly unlikely. Germany was excellent at boutique science and engineering, but organizing a multiphase project was well out of their grasp.

For chrissake, they couldn't even manage to invade England.

The average SS man was a coward. Only those that served in actual combat units (not extermination groups) can be even considered as approaching men.

The rest were useless bullies who's use as humans came as targets for firing squads.

>>34198404
I just find him, and especially his interest/obession in/with the occult, rather fascinating

>>34198404

His affairs were strictly civilian and policing in nature. He did try his hand at military operations, but the Waffen-SS commanders notably Paul Hausser and Wilhelm Bittrich barred Himmler from interference in Waffen-SS actions, Sepp Dietrich went as far as banning him from the barracks.

The Waffen-SS was a funny group. They adhered to the ideology, and held deep seeded loyalty to the Fuhrer, but after years of war they came to identify with the Heer over the rest of the SS. Comes with shedding blood together I guess.

By 1943, Himmler was only a puppet after Heydrich was killed. Himmler handed all of Heydrich's offices to Ernst Kaltenbrunner, who he didn't realize was an enemy to Himmler for years and spent years in disfavour organizing the SS men and Nazi party officals who hated Himmler.

>>34198404
>have a highly authoritarian system
>why did anyone listen to this guy who outranks almost everyone?

Gee, I wonder why.

>>34198259

Keitel was a yes man who got his position through devotion to Hitler. He went so far as to joining the party, or rather accepting an honorary membership, which the rest of the General staff felt was a complete insult.

If the Wehmacht were to assume control over the country, the best way would be some sort of council who would make decisions for what was best for the country, with civilian political leaders from the National Socialists (considering the situation, they could not exactly have the time to build a non-nazi cabinet) who would keep up the civilian government.

Another step that would be interesting would have be the restoration of the crown, with the Kaiser as a figurehead like in the alst war, or more like the British Monarchy is. Wilhelm II was old and clearly mentally ill. His son Wilhelm III was not much better, but Wilhelm III's son Prince Louis Ferdinand was a cultured, well traveled man who had a personal friendship with FDR, in the Luftwaffe, an engineer even.

>>34197386
Germans will be extinct within 70 years.
>>34198420
Speak for yourself.

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>>34197386
The Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and kriegsmarine were largely rebuilt and centred on imitating the British army, the RAF & RN, and led to their success in the early years.

U Boats had no chance of strangling the UK and cutting them off, and that british and american subs were far more effective by tonnage sunk

Germany and Italy would have been beaten by only two of the three world superpowers.

The Invasion of the UK if conducted would have failed miserably, worse then invading the soviet union.

The wuderwaffe were waste of time & resources.
the Komet was hard to reuse
the ME262 had to have its engines replaced every 25 hours of use so couldn't fly at speed all the time
V1 & V2s were missing london completely because of misinformation.
Enigma was cracked
King tiger & Maus clearly never heard of rocket attacks

the SS were largely ineffective on the front lines

>>34199206

t. delusional Anglo overstating his importance.

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>>34199284
TAM when its all true wehraboo

>>34199206
The grandfather bit in your image reminded me of this

https://youtu.be/31d2n1GvGRU

https://youtu.be/DJfACeZ5zrY

Also does anyone know who originally wrote the song?

>>34197386
they were completely unable to field successful tank designs post Panzer IV. both tigers, the panther, and the fucking maus were all total pieces of shit and awful designs that never should've got past the drafting table.

The Waffen SS sucked. Only Liebstandarte, Das Reich and maybe a few others among the dozens of Waffen SS divisions were an asset rather than a liability.

The Wehrmacht was complicit in the crimes of the SS either by inaction or direct participation.

One of the main reasons that cemented the loss of the war for the Germans was the loss of valuable human capital + disruptions to society created by the needless persecution of the Jews. The Germans may well have been able to have a working nuclear weapon in their hands before the war ended.

>>34199374

The Panther had the same problems as the the T-34 and less time to sort out the teething problems that come with brand new tanks, and Panthers were only slightly more expensive then the standard Panzer IV

The Tiger was a stopgap built to buy time to roll out Panther production.

Tiger II was built to answer the IS series.

Maus was plain fucking retarded.

>>34197386
Rommel wasn't that great

>>34199436
>the loss of valuable human capital + disruptions to society created by the needless persecution of the Jews
>VALUABLE
>NEEDLESS
Aaaaahahahahaha more like we lost the war because we had to divert so many resources from the war effort to get rid of the fuckers. Look at how Germany prospered after the war, a country without Jews siphoning off labour and wealth into each other's pockets and you will see it was all worth it.

>tfw the Heer was greeted by the Ukrainians as their great liberators
>They opened the churches, fed the populace
>tfw Ukrainians volunteered by the hundreds of thousands
>tfw Hitler refused their services
>tfw he installed an anti-Slavic (even by Nazi standards) Reichkomissoner to govern the region
>tfw as soon as the intital Heer units moved on, he moved in the Einsatzgruppen and police units and destroyed the goodwill of the Ukrainians and turned the region into one of the most brutal Partisan actions in the war.

You had one Job Hitler.

>>34199436
The Waffen-SS casualties were so high because they didn't know when it was time to retreat. Offensives that would never succeed were continued until complete collapse, and defenses that were impossible were held up until they were killed/ completely overran.
For as much as people like to mock the Soviets for their "Push quick, push hard, and don't relent" approach, the Waffen-SS was making a living doing it and squandering men and equipment.

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>>34197386
>muh german unity
>muh lebensraum
>oh shit why is everyone declaring war on me I dindu nuffin I just want peace

>>34199515
>Look at how Germany prospered after the war
Because of american money & british army engineers to rebuild industry

VW owes its continued existence thanks to the brits

>>34198265
What's it like going through life being this stupid?

>>34200128
Hitler liked Muslims and had muslims in the SS. Hitler also hated Christianity and preferred a new Pagan Germanic religion. So all these Nu-Nazi Christfags spouting Hitler would save Christiandom have no sense of irony.

>>34197386
That they weren't that good, everyone else was just worse for about 3 years.

>>34201199
Hitler wasn't looking to start some Pagan Germanic religion, rather he was trying to mythologize the State as one of the goals of Nazism was to put the State in a position of supremacy that could overtake religion. Himmler was more into the Germanic Paganism thing.

>>34197386
The tiger was actually trash

The Luftwaffe didn't modernize

The German Navy was trash

ect

>>34199515
go back to nat-soc ghetto

>>34197386
Slavaboo pls go

Related:
https://youtu.be/NVqxoA52kjI
Kinda spooky, even if I'm kinda conflicted about Hitler.

>>34201348
The Tiger was pretty damn good so long as the railroads were kept intact for transporting them and the crews were given enough downtime from combat to do their maintenance.

Luftwaffe was stuck in the mindset that they existed to support the infantry. No successful heavy bombers and the blame for this, and other screw ups, can be placed directly on Goering.

Kriegsmarine never really got missions that were possible to accomplish. Outside of the U-boats and their "happy times", they were outclassed by the Royal and US Navies.

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>>34197386
Literally nothing, the 3rd Reich was flawless.

Daily Reminder to tankies/capitalists

>That Casualty ratio in the Eastern Front
>Kalashnikov just stole the design of the STG-44
>Communism saved capitalism's ass

>>34201698
> life is about k/d ratio
> bullshit
> other way around

>>34199531
>Anti Slavic

He was anti communist and treated slavs as being complicit for the rise of communisn. Slavs joined the SS and the Einzatsgruppen did nothing wrong.

>Inb4 muh poor Belarusians

They starved bcause of the Soviet tactics of slash and burn which stole food from civilians and burned their property so it wouldn't be captured by the Germans. Same thing happened in India and Vietnam that lead to their famines


https://youtu.be/LQdDnbXXn20

>>34201729
Just from the thumbnail of that video, which I've seen numerous times, there's another myth: "Clean Wehrmacht"
Every major force in WW2 did some pretty messed up stuff. The Heer was no exception and their response to partisan actions were just kill villagers as revenge or to try to make an example.

>>34201717
1 yes
2. Don't deny it
3. Literally started to giggle irl . Both the US and Britain had less than 1 million casualties lmao. Allies would be nothing without Stalin.

>Inb4 lend lease

Onyl took care of maybe 5% of their equipment.

>>34201748
Watch the video, no one pretends to be clean.

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>>34201698
nice

Their tanks weren't very good.
Their high command was a shitshow.

>>34198253
Gonna need to see this "proof" that no human remains or ash were found and the accounts of people. Gonna need at least a semi-credible news source, no stormfront, pal.

>>34197386

America is everything that they admire about Germany, but real.

>military powerhouse
Fought on multiple fronts projecting force across the globe in all directions and crushed all opposition
>industrial powerhouse
was able to build a massive navy, mechanized supply corps, long range bombers and fighters, and still have enough industrial capacity to arm and supply everyone else in the war and fully mechanize Russia's supply corps too. Meanwhile Germany was literally relying on horse drawn carriages.
>cool guns
was able to supply everybody with automatic or semi-automatic rifles (except the Marines), something no one else in the war managed.
>invention
NUCLEAR BOMBS
>sense of duty/honor
purposefully took on daytime bombing missions to limit collateral damage, despite being much more dangerous, rebuilt defeated countries into major world powers

>>34202612
How can someone prove that remains weren't found? Prove that I didn't find a teapot on the moon.

Where is the proof of remains? Attempts to find them have failed. They found remains of partizans who were executed as spies, but that's a different matter entirely.

Why does nobody ever talk about the polish people murdered by jews during the war?

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>>34201348
>Luftwaffe didn't modernize
>introduced first jet aircraft
¿Que?

>>34203065
Link an article, fuckhead.

>>34197410
simple
He and his SS dregs contributed nothing to the war.

>>34202728
>limit collateral damage

kek

>>34203338

Yeah, against Germany. Japan, no fucks were given.

The German have and always will be the great aggressor on the world stage. Time and time again they've proven themselves unfit to be an independent nation, and perpetually go through the cycle of talking big, getting hit, running away, and coming back for more. It was a shame the Allies didn't leave Germany in the dust after WWII.

>>34197386

Literally, the dindus of Europe

>invade everyone
>loot and degrade other European cultures
>WHY YOU BOMB US BACK THO????
>It was just a prank bro!!!!
>be here in 2017
>WE WUZ KANGZ

>>34199314
That is not really fair considering how much the German U-boats were hunted compared to the other nations.

>>34201698
they are both whores you know one just looks cleaner than the other.
also
>rotating bolt
>copied the STG-44
In appearance yes but the internals are different.

>>34197386
Dresden deserved to happen and was justified

>>34203488

Actually even against Japan at the start.

The first bombing raids conducted against Japan were daytime and "precision".

Evaluations were not very promising. Output from the bombed factories did not drop markedly, due to the way the Japanese industrial supply chain was structured. The factories sub-contracted out a large amount of the work to smaller producers, who lived and worked in the urban areas surrounding the factory.

Then the USAAF swapped to fire bombing, with the desired results.

>>34203676
>>34201698
The AK is more a Garand than a StG, the Russians had the M43 7.62x39 and the SKS-45.

>>34203740

Don't even bother, Wehraboos don't know the difference between different bolt/methods of operation. If it has a banana mag, it's a clone of the Stg 44.

>>34203692
If only they did to Berlin what they did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

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>>34197386
Hitler was pants on head retarded for declaring war on Poland, he was even more retarded for declaring war on the Soviet Union while he was still at war with the UK, and he was "lol wut" levels of retarded for declaring war on the USA after Japan attacked us.

>>34197386
The war was lost before it began.

Not even giving any thought into the development into strategic bombers and relying almost entirely upon dive bombing was a mistake. Invading almost all of Europe was a mistake rather than waiting several years, building international political support and having time to develop a proper military.

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>>34203994
I once was on /pol/ arguing with the wehraboos about how stupid Hitler was for declaring war on the USA. Their argument for his decision? He needed to get the initiative against America. When I asked them how he was going to do that when he couldn't even touch American soil, they brought up the "Amerika Bomber" project. A project that never left the ground and only produced a few prototypes. After pointing that out, he went back to "muh honor and muh allies".

It's literally insane the amount of rationalizing they are able to do for even the worst decisions. I've legitimately had people claim that Hitler DIDN'T declare war on the USA, that the USA declared war on them first, even though this information is a 10 second google search away from being seen.

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>>34204029
Watch them bring up how "America violated neutrality and was committing acts of war against Germany by supplying the UK", as justification for declaring war ion the US, but then remain silent when you bring up how many nations' neutrality Nazi Germany violated or how they threw a fit at the British for trying to block Norwegian ports. Though admittedly, the British were preparing to invade Norway until Hitler beat them to it.
Still. It's all double-standards and selective-outrage.
Just like crying about the bombings of German cities and ignoring of how the Luftwaffe pretty much invented terror/indiscriminate bombing.

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>>34204068
My favorite is the justification for invading Poland. "It was rightful German soil, the Polish were killing German citizens"

It's like, retard, you rightfully lost that land when Germany chimped out in WW1 by violating Belgium's neutrality! Not to mention the sheer hypocrisy of complaining about Polish citizens "mass murdering" German citizens.

But such is the life of a wehraboo, their cognitive dissonance rivals that of the SJW's.

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>>34204094
If you want to really trigger them to mention that Nietzsche thought Poles were better than Germans

>>34204191
Nietzsche may be batshit in some regards, but he wasn't wrong in that. Poland's military history is much more esteemed than the failings of Prussia and Germany

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>>34204210
Winged Hussars make me moist

>>34201698
>Communism saved capitalism's ass

That's why the USSR was the "Arsenal of Democracy", right?

Oh wait, it wasn't you fucking retard

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>>34197410
>>34198404
>>34203324
Any idea if this book was any good?
https://www.amazon.ca/Heinrich-Himmler-Peter-Longerich/dp/0199651744

Pic not related.

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Here's who the Nazis thought of as fit to lead their nation:
>A mediocre painter who thought serving as a runner made him some kind of military genius
>A yes-man put in charge of the armed forces
>A womanizer who accused everyone of lying and then made his living telling lies
>A drunk who flapped his arms when excited like they would somehow lift his overweight body off the ground
>A squeamish chicken farmer
And people wonder why things turned out to be such a scheiße show.

>>34197386
I personally think the wehrmacht should have flattened warsaw in the first place. The whole ghetto uprising could have been prevented and the 3000 civilians who survived in this city wouln't be missed anyway.

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>>34198445
>>34199543
These points exclude the Finnish battalion.

>>34201199
>Hitler
>Preferred pagan
pick one

>>34197435
I am a fellow Willie Waggler myself but you could have just shortened the whole post with
>2nd reich > 3rd reich

>>34204656

Second Reich Government
Third Reich officers and generals (the leadership was trained in the baptism of fire in the First War)
Third Reich Equipment

>>34203994
The war was not necessarily lost before it began, just comparing production ability of the axis with the ability of the allies with USA is a way too simplistic approach that I've seen used many times.

Let's say for example that El Alamein was won by the axis and the allied desert army thus forced to rout indefinitely, causing them to lose Suez, which might lead to Spain being encouraged enough to take Gibraltar, lots of ifs here, in this situation I could foresee both sides suing for peace leaving the Soviet Union to fight alone vs. the axis, which might go one way or the other really, soviet national identity was in shambles after Stalin's forced migrations but Hitler failed to capitalise on that by labeling them all as subhumans.

This is wild speculation but the allied victory was not such a sure thing until '43 or so, had major allies lost political will to continue in the war then situation might've been different.

The SS only had like 2 divisions that were worth a shit, the rest were utter shit that got steamrolled. The Wehrmacht, for all their failings, were the real warriors who bore the brunt of all the fighting

>>34204737
Reading about what the SS did to the german population at the end of the war just proves your point really.

>Hanging any fighting age male they caught not wearing a uniform for desertion
>Forcing 12 year olds to hid in bushes at shoot panzerfausts at columns of russian tanks
>Forcing old men to put their World War One uniforms back on and sending them into battle on their zimmer frames

All because they knew that the allies were going to hang them for warcrimes

>>34197386
>Their development was waaaaaaaaaayyy too complicated
>Their procurement was a shitfest (dare to count the numbers of tank destroyers, tanks of all kinds?)
>Supporting italy was plain dumb
>declaring war on the US just because Japan did was too
>Underestimating an enemy is never good. Such as setting too tight time tables
>Let your political agenda never control your military strategy when you are fighting several enemies at once
>Your intelligence was UTTER shit
>the high command consisted of too many bootlickers and too few people who knew their shit - although:
>Hitler didnt trust the professionals he had and overexaggerated his own WW1 experience
>

>>34204737
>nly had like 2 divisions that were worth a shit

calm down man. The SS sure wasnt that Nazi-supersoldier program a lot of Wehraboos see it but they had more like two good divisions

>>34198241
This is a thread for facts, my fat friend

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>>34198241
>it took the combined forces of the whole world to taketh em down
Actually they could barely take on any of the nations they faced, they just happened to have pissed them all off at the same time like the idiots they were.

>>34204813
Their alliance with Italy was pretty bad for Italy too, Mussolini sperged out when Hitler invaded France and tried to go on his own conquering spree even though Italy wasn't nearly industrialized enough or equipped for such a campaign.

>>34204737
>>34204784
People who volunteered for the SS should have been shot or imprisoned for life, didn't happen often enough unfortunately. They did however start to forcefully conscript men in the Waffen SS from 1944 onwards. >>34204819
Waffen SS divisions were often given the newest weapons and generally the best equipment but most of the time they performed worse than the Wehrmacht.

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>>34204859

Much of the old guard of the Waffen-SS died or were maimed during the winter of '41-42. The Wehrmacht used them as bait for the Red Army while they dug in. They were pulled out in the spring and the requirments for service became even less stringent then the traditional army.

As for best equipment. I hope this meme will die one day. It's a half truth at the very best. The Heer didn't trust them with top line equipment until after the Waffen-SS was fed through the meat grinder. It purged the bravado out of them and Waffen-SS started serving with distinction, and the Heer started tolerating them more (at least the strictly Germanic and West European units).

Those that lived showed very little in the way of resentment. To that point they were trying to prove themselves and finally had Senpai's attention.

Picture related: Waffen-SS officer and his Heer Subordinate training a Luftwaffe ground crew how to fight on the fly as the British were dropping over Arnhem.

>>34204859
>but most of the time they performed worse than the Wehrmacht.

Highly disputable

>>34204857

Worse yet, Italy could have been so much more useful as a friendly neutral. It wouldn't have opened up the North African Front for the British to use and it would meant the Germans wouldn't have to finish the bullshit Mussolini started in the Balkans and the nightmare occupation that followed.

When Rommel arrived in North Afica, he envisioned himself as the German T.E Lawerence (with less buggery) He wanted to inspire a general Arab and North African uprising against the British. Unfortunately, Italy's brutal treatments of the Libyans and the Ethiopians were not exactly inspiring. So the locals preferred the devils they knew.

>>34202728
>sense of duty/honor
Strafing farmers traveling by horse and carriage is totally honorable, same with firebombing their villages.
>cool guns
The Garand and the Thompson aren't cool though, the rest was shit and/or meant for troops that wasn't supposed to be in a position where they would take small arms fire.

>>34203876
>Hitler was pants on head retarded for declaring war on Poland
They demolished every army they were at war with after declaring war on Poland, how was that retarded?

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>>34204939
>They demolished every army they were at war with after declaring war on Poland
USSR, UK, USA?

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>>34204929

Captured officer on dealing with the SS.

I will just tell you about one scene which I myself witnessed with my own eyes otherwise I shouldn’t speak about it. That was during the winter fighting, when four Russian divisions, a Guards cavalry division, two Guards infantry divisions and one other division, broke through the neighboring division on my left wing. I now formed a defensive flank projected like this, it formed an acute angle—ridiculous. I was right in the centre at a distance of 4km with my battle headquarters, at a distance of 2km from both fronts. In order to form the defensive flank I got a second unit an SS battalion that is it wasn’t much more than a glorified company. The company consisted of about 175 men, a few mg-34 and two mortars. There was one von Benden, a grand fellow who had also been in the World War. These fellows had been acting as a protective division in the rear and had engaged guerrillas. They were then withdrawn and sent up to the front. I gave them orders to take the village of Volchanka. As they hadn’t any heavy weapons, I gave them 2 mg34s and 3 PaK guns, which I also immediately withdrew. The attack was begun. I couldn’t believe my eyes, how quickly the attack proceeded, it developed splendidly, we advanced against the village and met with fire. Suddenly Benden stood up in his car and drove up to the head of his battalion and the battalion fell in and marched on in step against the village.

They had nine officers. Out of these nine, seven were killed or wounded. Out of 175 men, about 80 were lost. They took the village. Afterwards they held the village with 80 men for a week, or rather they had to leave it once and go back again. In the end they had 25 men left.

Officer 2: ...complete madness.


Officer 1: Yes, it was an absolute scandal. I gave him a troop of MG-34's, he didn’t fire a round. I said, ‘You must fire, von Benden.’ ‘Nonsense, we can take it this way too.’ Utter madness.

>>34204953
Not him but do you know what "demolished" means?

Didnt the germans inflict millions of casualties to the USSR for example?

>>34204953
>USSR, UK, USA?
>USSR
>USA
>I am a fucking retard that don't know who Germany was at war with after declaring war on Poland: the post
France, Poland and the UK, and yes the English army was showed back into the drink, and was rendered irrelevant until the Americans got their pearls harbored.

>>34204982
When did this happen?

Because in the early war, its true because the rivalry between Wehrmacht and SS forced the latter more than once to act like gung ho idiots which lead to high losses

For the late war your text can be described as Einzelfall

>>34204982
Cool story bro, but how about some sources?

>>34198728
Keitel is a bad choice, yes. The correct answer would probably be Ludwig Beck.

>>34204985

Winter '41 -'42 during the great blood letting as described here. >>34204925

The Wehrmacht got to witness survival of the fittest that winter, and were much more impressed with what survived and went on to teach the replacements.

>>34204984
>the English army was showed back into the drink, and was rendered irrelevant until the Americans got their pearls harbored.
> English army
> Never hearing of el alamein

The "british army" was forced to withdraw after its whole flank collapsed and surrenderd.

The british army fought the italians right out of libya with a small diversionary counterattack, and most of the fighting through france and italy was done by british forces.

In fact they'd have won even hadn't america joined, as the armies of the British empire were the largest in the world, and the non inclusion of america means the non inclusion of japan.

>>34204989

Soldaten by researchers Soenke Neitzel and Harald Welzer. I highly recommend it.

>>34205018

to eleborate

Soldaten: On Fighting, Killing and Dying; The

Secret Second World War Tapes of German POWs

>>34204989
Another source, german article: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#Milit.C3.A4rische_Kompetenz_und_erste_Kriegseins.C3.A4tze

>The military value of SS units deployed at the front was also critically assessed by the Wehrmacht. In spite of the well-trained officers who had been trained by the junk schools and the influence of Paul Hausser at that time, it was above all necessary for military-qualified under-officers. As a result, some of the SS units lost their order in the event of loss of officers, which, in addition to the already existing reservations, made them appear as militarily rather unreliable units in the eyes of the Wehrmacht.

>In the Benelux countries and France clear deficiencies in the conduct of the war were evident, but this could not be compensated for by an above-average level of preparedness and motivation, but also increased the losses due to excessive and unplanned procedures. Again and again there were conflicts between the Wehrmacht and SS commanders, as far as tactics and operations were concerned. In a dispute between General Erich Hoepner and Theodor Eicke, who did not have any military training as a commander-in-chief, there was a scandal when Eicke was described as "slaughter" by Hoepner. The rapid expansion and the losses suffered by experienced leaders have also led to a shortage of the quality of officer training.

However, after the defeat of France, Hitler was satisfied with the "achievements" of the SS, and praised them on the occasion of his speech on the victory parade in Berlin in 1940. After the victory over France, the term "Waffen-SS" was also officially used for the first time.

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>>34204925
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#Milit.C3.A4rische_Kompetenz_und_erste_Kriegseins.C3.A4tze

>Hitler ordered 1939/40 that the SS units intended to participate in the Western campaign should be fully motorized (vehicles for the transport of troops and materials, as well as for the artillery), which in this case was to be regarded as a favor, 16 of the 157 divisions of the army were motorized.

Doesn't matter what the Heer thought, the Nazi leadership gave them good equipment, pic related: Waffen SS Tiger I at Kursk

>>34197386
I've got some here:
>German high command outside of a few select people such as Rommel were top tier shit
>their only path to glory was attacking a bunch of countries that were still rebuilding themselves after WW1 and by the time they actually faced off against a power they got destroyed
>after the panzer IV their tanks became either shit or not too great, and the maus was just completely retarded
>Hitler was destroying Germany himself which is why assassination missions on him stopped
>the second reich was better
>Hitler was a complete dumbass outside of politics and should have just let his generals and commanders do the work
>the luftwaffe became shit, though for the sake of fairness it was shit by design plus they had to deal with Göring
>their last chance for victory was Barbarossa, after that they were screwed
>they became screwed cubed when the US got involved
>the Bismarck got BTFO'd by a wooden piece of shit
>german tanks, while admittedly cool looking, often had reliability issues, especially the tigers
>the waffen-ss were nothing but cannon fodder for the wehrmacht and the regular ss weren't much better, though they did have nice uniforms
You get the idea, though there's probably more to be said here.

>>34205015
>The british army fought the italians right out of libya with a small diversionary counterattack
Cute, so could probably every other member of both the Axis and the Allies.
> and most of the fighting through france and italy was done by british forces.
With Canadian troops and American equipment
>In fact they'd have won even hadn't america joined, as the armies of the British empire were the largest in the world,
Which helped them a lot at Dunkirk and in Norway. Wait, no it didn't. There are only so many Australians and Canadians they could have thrown away landing in a non-US D-Day, and don't think that the Brits wouldn't have used them as a meatshield in the worst landings. Hell the Brits wouldn't have enough material to sustain a neutral-US WWII.
>and the non inclusion of america means the non inclusion of japan.
90% of the troops stationed in Asia was garbage with no willingness to fight.

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>>34204983
Yeah, but the USSR had tens of millions to throw at Germany. If I lose a lot of men, but that is proportionally small to the amount of men I actually have under my command, then I wasn't "demolished".

>>34204984
Yes, they beat France, but they could never have beaten the UK. Thrown them out of Africa, maybe, but not forced them to surrender. So they really only demolished 1/4 of the nations they went to war with after Poland. And that 1 nation was France. Not exactly impressive.

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Genius level short term planning and operational ability marred by inability to get into grand strategy.

>>34199206
>The Invasion of the UK if conducted would have failed miserably, worse then invading the soviet union.

I seem to recall in a video or an article somewhere (sorry I'm just going off a memory here) that the strength of the German Army at the conclusion of the France campaign was significantly larger than what was available to the British Army. British army strength was somewhere < 10 divisions while the German army had 3 times that or something. Again, I'm not sure and this is all just going off a memory. What makes you think the invasion would have failed miserably? Assuming that Germany could have established aerial and subsequently naval superiority and made a Channel crossing virtually unopposed?

>>34205052
>Cute, so could probably every other member of both the Axis and the Allies.

Doubt

> With Canadian troops and American equipment

British & canadian troops always took to hard work, with exception to Cologne and st. Lo See below for equipment

>Which helped them a lot at Dunkirk and in Norway. Wait, no it didn't. There are only so many Australians and Canadians they could have thrown away landing in a non-US D-Day, and don't think that the Brits wouldn't have used them as a meatshield in the worst landings. Hell the Brits wouldn't have enough material to sustain a neutral-US WWII.

Thats because it takes time to move men & equipment from a third of the globe to Europe,
Using your allies as meatshields is all wrong, britain didn't waste one man (with probable deliberate exception to dieppe)

> Neutral US was supplying the brits with anything and everything before the US got involved. Hell the brits had so much equipment they gave stuff to the USSR free of charge.
90% of the troops stationed in Asia was garbage with no willingness to fight.

Not really, they were caught off guard, Australian soldiers were all across africa & far east. the Indian army Was being mobilised to move Africa before moving to Italy & France, Malaya & Burma were left with a token garrison, meaning Hong Kong & singapore were last stands.

They ran projections as to how long it would take for a European victory without the US, and they were looking at a victory date of 1947 because the commonwealth strategy involved taking & holding individual occupied countries one at a time and recruiting armies from there.

They figures that once africa was secure, then it would be sicily, then greece, & Yugoslavia, before taking Norway, Denmark, France, Belgium & the netherlands before taking down italy, and then squeezing in through Germany in 4 pronged offensive with the USSR.

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>>34205155
>Assuming that Germany could have established aerial and subsequently naval superiority and made a Channel crossing virtually unopposed?
But they couldn't, that was so far outside the realm of possibility that you might as well be in an entirely different timeline.

>>34205114
>Thrown them out of Africa, maybe, but not forced them to surrender.
We don't know how hard the British would have taken it If Germany had thrown the British out of Africa. The Indians might have even seen this as an opportunity to revolt.
>1/4
Is poland worth twice as much as the UK and France individually?
>How is beating a nation with far superior tanks by flanking them not impressive?
How is beating an at worst equal strenght nation with far superior tanks, by flanking them and sprinting through their country towards their capitol, demoralizing their leadership not impressive?

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>>34205175
>Is poland worth twice as much as the UK and France individually?
They didn't demolish the UK, the only nation they demolished after Poland was France.

>>34205155
Naval & aeirial Supremacy wouldn't have been a thing, the RAF & RN kept a reserve force just for invasion kept outside the aerial range of germanys fighters.

They had no dedicated landing craft, the Kriegsmarine & Wehrmacht had no experience conducting amphibious ops.

The kriegsmarine would have been outgunned by the counterattacking british home fleet & ships on return from convoy duty.

The BEF was only a part of the British army, and was reequipped with most of its fighting equipment within 3 months.

The Home guard, whilst seen as a joke really wasn't considering they were predominantly made up of WW1 veterans & would heave meant the germans would have to flatten every village on the road to london, causing resistance to increase out of hatred.

Panzers would not have been able to use until a deep water port was established. Portsmouth & southampton were RN bases and an assault would have been suicide. And Dover was built like fort knox, with special instructions to blow up the jetties on the first sign of invasion & flood the sea with oil and light it. The coastal defences & dover were truly formidable.

Hell the british planned on using chemical warfare and gassing their own people, had already established resistance units to operate behind enemy lines & had several contingency lines to allow fall back & fortify.

They had orders to expend all ammunition before Affixing bayonets and harging onto the beaches to repel them.

>>34205175
>the Indians might have even seen this as an opportunity to revolt.
unlikely, britiain had already promised independence.

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>>34202728
>Meanwhile Germany was literally relying on horse drawn carriages.
To be fair, Germans built uniform, standardized, horse drawn carriages with truck-tier chassis n shit. Literally the most high-tech a horse carriage got.

Not only were they more robust than the traditional WWI and late 19th century tier army carriages and caissons, you could also tow them behind trucks and halftracks, and form road-trains of a sort. Thereby sparing horses.

>>34204094
I thought it was because Poland invaded Czechoslovakia, and danzig was the political excuse.

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>>34204300
I think their officer caps are quite unique

>>34204094
You talk of land as if it was currency. Danzig was populated mostly by germans who wanted to belong to Germany.

>>34204191
He wasnt even polish, nor did he have polish ancestry. He made it up because had he claimed to belong to Preussian nobility, he would've been called out on his bullshit.

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bomber harris did absolutely nothing wrong

>>34206474
Is this the new helicopter ride meme?

>>34204939

>Strafing farmers traveling by horse and carriage is totally honorable,

>things that never happened

>>34199206
A jewed Anglo is a sad thing to see.

>>34206804
it happened, but a considerable portion of the german army relied on horses so its not surprising.

>>34206835
Jews aren't a problem in the UK, they help finance our wars.