US Army to Gunmakers: Show Us a New 7.62mm Service Rifle

>>34191241
12 pounds unloaded? Damn might as well break out the BAR.

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LMT MWS would be my guess.

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>>34191289
She is a heavy pig

Some colonel or lower grade general must be looking for a retirement gig.

>>34191241
>7.62mm Interim Combat Service Rifle.

a modernized FAL AR-10 or G3 would be cool. Lighter maybe SR-25. I doubt they are gonna shell out for SCAR-Hs

Are their any other .308 battle rifles that are off the shelf ready?

>>34191302
Still meets the reqs. A part of me thinks they made the weight limit high enough so that the MWS specifically would be included.

>>34191344
Vepr .308 kek

hk 417 or scar 17

das it mane

>>34191241
Bring the cm901 back to life plz bring the cm901 back to life

>>34191344
>modernized FAL or G3
FN and HK will put SCAR and 417 variants in, not fifty year old designs

Scar is perfect

>>34191382
>hk 417
that's probably it, I still don't get the point of an interim rifle, either change or don't

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>>34191386

>>34191382

HK, FN, and LMT are the only ones I expect to be taken seriously. I can't imagine any other company putting forth an existing product and delivery schedule that can compete with any of them, especially FN.

>Commercial Off The Shelf (COTS) system
First they militarised the police, now they're civilising the military?!

Civilian weapons have no place in our warzones! Think of the child soldiers!

>>34191441
There is...
ummm...

yeah, thats really about it

Are there still a shit ton of m14s left around? I know they don't want to customize but wouldn't it be cheaper to put a new stock on rifle you already own rather than buying a new one?

>>34192019
Most of those got DRMO'ed out and they wouldnt meet the qualifications anyway

>>34192019
There's a reason the Mk 14 was phased out for the M110. The M14 is not a good platform, and only was deployed because it was necessary to have a lot of DMRs in Afghanistan and could be done so cheaply and easily.

>>34191241

There are plenty of great AR-10 models out there. They should have no problem finding something meeting their requirements.

>>34192019
The m14 was a shit-tier DMR, and is only still in service for the same reason that some combloc countries had the SKS well into the 80's; when you've got a lot of something, you'll try to find a way to use it up

>>34191319
This.

>>34191241
Scar caugh caugh

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>>34192153
>Caugh caugh

you're either Swedish, part crow, or retarded.

>>34192177
The SCAR meets all the requirements already without modification to its design. Otherwise FN FAL Rhodie style. Next Mattis will issue only short shorts.

>>34192212
You are doubling down on the stupid. I'm referring to your inability to spell, not the Scar.

I am ok with Hot pants and Rhodie FALs though

>>34191344
>doubt they are gonna shell out for SCAR-Hs

You know the aren't buying them for civie prices and the SCAR was designed to be cost efficient and all of the other guns I'm the running wouldn't be bargains either.

>>34192267
Department pricing on the 16s is under $1000

>>34192019
After the last nightmarish money pit the last time they modernized the M14? Are you fucking high? At that rate they could just chop down M110 and give the MK.48 the ol L treatment. Trying to make a DPMS combat ready would be less of a waste of time

>>34191241
So a .308 firing AR? I guess that want parts compatibility or something, not sure if that applies.

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drd paratus 7.62 gen 2

Doesn't an AR-10 make the most sense?
Weapon manipulation would be the same as the weapons they already have.

>>34191241
What is the point of an "Interim Combat Service Rifle"?
Is this to get some 7.62 rifles into the hands of troops deployed overseas
Or is this a way to spend money, before we spend even more money on new 6.5 creedmoor rifles?

carbine length ar10 with based platform with a composite lower receiver?

Like every other time, nothing will happen.

5.56 is plenty of kill for most combat engagements, but of course people want to autist out about Afghanistan rather than thinking of the favellahs and tight city fighting coming in the 21st century. SPR/DMRs will become more prevalent, sure, but nothing substantive will change.

>>34192629
I dunno man, when was the last time a prediction about the future of combat turn out true? That said, this program seems shortsighted.

>>34192498
This rifle will be the one rechambered for 6.5mm. We need a right now option for fighting SVD squads. Personally, I think they will use the hk417 because it looks like an M4 and thus does not stand out. Same reason they replaced the M110 with the G38 and the SAW with the M27.

>>34191319
This, these are the same stagnated faggots who piledrive some petty nonsense like a new (usually horrifically tasteless) dress uniform through the system just so they can have something resembling of a legacy.

>>34192629

Unless the US suddenly gets deployed to Brazil, there will be no "favela" fighting.

>>34192764

I'm smirking at you guys who think it's not a good idea because you don't have the facts while I do.

>>34192629
what makes 5.56 superior to any other cartridge? If I was using 6.5 creedmoor in an urban setting, its not like the bullet is going to go ''lolnope'' and not make my enemy deader.

>>34191344
I want Springfield to submit the M14 again just for the troll factor.

>>34192813
You can carry so much more of it.

>>34192813
Weight, cost, recoil, usage between allies, high volume of accurate fire out of even short barrel rifles.

At the end of the day, 5.56 kills just fine, suits infantry, and has more money invested into it, simple.

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>>34192825
>DOD receives "Springfield Armory's" submission

>>34192782
More likely to see super dense, urban fighting than massive open terrain thanks to drones and unrivaled air superiority.

Infantry will have its use in building to building fighting in the 21st century far more than taking a valley or some shit.

Stop thinking of how to win the last war.

>>34192893
I mean what do they have to lose? A couple rifles?

>>34192757
>he thinks they're actually replacing their SAWs with M27s

I really wish they use an AR-10 just so it is already open to the public and parts are easily available.

As for as I know all the parts worth a damn in a SCAR is all protected and owned by FN.

That was nice about the M-16/AR15 is no one could Jew the government on price. Because everyone with a class 3 FFL made some sort of AR15 almost.

>>34191382
SCAR would be the best option imo due to its weight.

>>34192882

American troops are getting slaughtered by ISIS squads that are using the extra range of SVDs and PKMs to over match them past 500m. The IBR is designed to bring back some range to the American squad.

Additionally, switching to a 6mm type calibre is all but impossible with 5.56mm recover sets, yet not so with 7.62mm sets. The IBR is meant to be a bridge to the holy grail of that is telescoped, polymer cased 6.5mm.

>>34192947
> American troops are getting slaughtered by ISIS squads that are using the extra range of SVDs and PKMs to over match them past 500m.

Again, every fucking time I see this, I ask why this squad is operating in isolation from the rest of the platoon and it's m240s?

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>>34192947

>American troops are getting slaughtered by ISIS squads that are using the extra range of SVDs and PKMs to over match them past 500m.

LMT is great shit. Heavy as all fuck, but indestructible tack drivers.

>>34192947
You're the same faggot who brought this up a month or so ago, got blown out by everyone telling you how full of shit you are, and now you're back, huh?

Are you going to tell me the US is getting 'slaughtered' by Isis, then make up another fantasy scenario where there is no 240, no MK12/DM, no optics of any sort, and no available CAS again?

>>34193012
It really sounds like you are the one making up fantasies.

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>>34192757
>We need a right now option for fighting SVD squads.
Funny thing Russian drooped SVD from squad. For some reason i have in my mind picture of two dogs chasing each in circles.

>>34192973
The m240 doesn't have any range. It's 5.56mm, in case you don't know.

>>34193071
Someone's upset at all those (You)s

>>34191406
hey fuck you guy,, if i can get a single lower SBR'd for .22, .308 and everythign in between I would like it to have the tiniest bit of aftermarket that's not the steaming pile of mediocrity that is modern colt

>>34192947
How many Americans were killed by ISIS SVDs and PKMs at ranges past 500m?

>>34192973

An American squad only has one or 2 LMGs. ISIS squads are not rigid. Everyone can have a PKM or SVD. What those guys all do is target the American LMG soldiers first, then the rest of them are without range. This is how they are killing American special forces.

>>34193085
You have the m240 confused with the m249.

>>34191441
LWRC will put out something most definitely. They were present during IC and CSASS and I'd imagine they'd put forth either the 16" REPR or the CSASS version with the hilarious/very sexy 12" barrel.

>>34193119
I'm gonna need some sources for that.

>>34191441
Oh and I bet KAC will try to submit their M110K too.

>>34193165
They aren't big enough.
If they partnered with Cerberus for manufacturing, maybe

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My New SCAR17. Love it and worth every penny

>>34193228
Enjoy getting targeted first because you have the new looking weapon.

>>34193228
why is your cantilever mount backwards

>>34192629
It isnt enough now that our rivals are now fielding their own Level 3+ plates

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>>34193263
>He's planning on bugging out
Sad

>>34193119
If they can spot the 240s they'll spot the DMRs, who are even less likely to make hits on target without automatic fire while suppressed

>>34193171
Don't hold your breathe. I don't believe SOCOM has declassified any recent KIAs that weren't a chute failing to open. Either anon is full of shit, or he's the one pulling the trigger.

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>>34191451
>Civilian weapons have no place in our warzones! Think of the child soldiers!

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>>34193267

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>>34192923
>class 3
There's that fucking meme again. What's next? You gonna tell me "clips" exist?

What about a 7.62x51 galil ace? I know it's not exactly a scar 17 or a 417 but the cost per unit may be considerably lower

>>34192973
Because the squad in this scenario is operating in a fanta sea.

>>34193221
LWRC is plenty large and operates at a scale similar to LMT or KAC. They may not have/had the heavy American, UK, or NZ contracts, but they have been supplying rifles to CT and LEOs on the international market for a bit now.


And there is literally no one in any hurry to partner themselves with a Cerberus company. Remington Defense hasn't done anything exciting since the XM2010 and their piston AR that they managed to make twice as expensive as a Hk416.

I want AR10s.

>>34193320
I'm no soldier. I'm just telling what i've heard on the web.

>>34193862
Don't those guns shit where they eat?

>>34193862
They'll probably end up with an AR-10 of some sort.

Hopefully not with a piston shoehorned into it. I think they will keep two sets of gear eventually, M4s for cities and AR-10s for afghanistan.

>>34193392
but class 3 describes the ffl license, people do get retarded though and describe any title 2 firearm as "class 3" when it should be called a title 2 firearm or NFA item. To keep is simple class 3 is the FFL license for title 2 firearms that are made or transferred with a form 4.

>>34193969
polymer lower AR-10 with a nickle boron bcg
m27 for everyone else

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>>34193118

>>34192947
>American troops are getting slaughtered by ISIS squads that are using the extra range of SVDs and PKMs to over match them past 500m.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....(inhales).....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>34191241
Adopting a AR-10 with overlapping parts and compatibility with in-service, non picatinny equipment seems like the smartest of smart ideas.
But this is the U.S. military we're talking about here.

7.62x51
6.8 special
7.62x39
7.62x40 WT
and 6.5 Grendel


are all being tested.

>>34191241
>5.56 won't penetrate esapi level plate
>make a new 7.62x51 round/rifle to penetrate said armor.


You think anyone told this imbecile of a officer that our esapi plates are specifically designed to stop a armor piercing modern 30-06 round

i mean this is like the face palms of all facepalms"hey you our current rifles isn't penetrating certain body armors, go adn make ANOTHER rifle that ALSO won't penetrate said armor."

>>34193118
Less SVD. More so PKM and No.4 SMLE.

>>34195199
How many? 1? 2?

>>34195143
Regardless of the stated reason, I think we do need a stronger round than 5.56mm. It's had a good run (over 50 years of service), but more range is needed fight the new threat posed by 7.62×54mmR, and more power is needed to defeat enemy body armor. It's time for an upgrade.

Why doesn't the US government quit dicking around and just start a new NATO rifle caliber that perfectly splits the difference between 5.56 and 7.62?

I am not talking about 6.5 CM, which has .308 as it's parent case and uses the same amount of gunpowder, therefore offering virtually no weight or space savings and require a gun as big as a 7.62 rifle.

I am talking about perfectly splitting the difference between 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO. It would equal 6.59mm and have a case that could hold about 32.5 grains of powder. It would push a 105gr bullet to about 2900 fps. The rifle would be somewhere in between an AR-15 and and AR-10.

This would be literally the perfect infantry rifle.

But we will never do it.

>>34195393
>I am not talking about 6.5 CM, which has .308 as it's parent case and uses the same amount of gunpowder
>I am talking about perfectly splitting the difference between 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO.
Why do you need less overmatch when you can have more overmatch?

Fielding more machine guns is clearly the solution.

every fire team should have a m249 and m203 (excluding a breach team.)

Or perhaps look into a better grenade launching system.

however, adding DMR rifles seems kinda pointless. Throw a fucking Elcan on a m240 and you now have the equivalence of platoon full of half assed wannabe snipers.

>>34195402
Weight and size of the rifle and weight and size of the ammo.

>>34195403
>however, adding DMR rifles seems kinda pointless
DMR/sniper rifles are ideal weapon for low intensity "make potshots and run" combat Afghanistan style.

>>34195143
>Milley told Senate Armed Services Committee members May 25 that Army officials at the Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning in Georgia, have developed a new 7.62mm round capable of penetrating enemy body armor plates similar to U.S. military-issue rifle plates such as the Enhanced Small Arms Protective Insert, or ESAPI.

Well as the article mentioned, they have a new AP round that pierces plates just fine, though it doesnt say at what range, etc.

Besides, whats the alternative, everyone getting .50 BMG carbines? 7.62x51mm is getting to be about the biggest round I can see being feasible for most infantry with select fire barring a major breakthrough in recoil management, and its an ammo we already have a bunch of.

>inb4 ww2 .30-06
NATO standardization wont let us go back and 7.62x51 has more R&D put into it to keep it modern.

>>34195413
the U.S army does not take pot shots. The U.S army lays down suppressing fire and calls in airstrikes, artillery, or flanks and pushes through the goddamn objective killing every stupid sonuvabitch who ain't already dead!

>>34195412
You get like 3-4 lbs of savings. With 50+lbs of total load. Irrelevant. But you reduced long range effectiveness, thing that current weapons lack and new gun supposed to fix.

>>34195420
No, you gain long range effectiveness over 5.56 and gain size and weight savings over 7.62. If you load a heavier match bullet (say 120gr) you would be getting 6.5 Grendel ballistics, which kick the shit out of 5.56.

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Holy shit this is dumb.

>We're getting overmatched by support weapons specifically designed to shoot a little farther than AKMs/AK74s.
>We already have the 249, 240, Mk12, M110, EBR, and m203s.
>Instead of issuing more of those, we need to buy an off the shelf 7.62 rifle to replace all the M4s with.

So we're giving up all the weight, ammunition capacity, and compactness of an M4 to solve an issue that doesn't even exist?

A 12 pound rifle in this day and age is absolutely ridiculous.

And just to be clear; exactly how many US soldiers have been recently killed by this made up problem?

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>>34195414
>Not just skipping all this hullabaloo to finally give our Boys in Blue bolters and begin the process of making Space Marines
Christ alive it's like I'm the only thinking man around here

>>34191241
We normies can't understand their profound idea.

>>34195431
Blame Taliban for that.
Being stuck in Afghanistan war is the reason why army considers 7.62 meme.

>>34195431
Well it's not for everyone. They only want 10000 guns. This is also a stepping stone to the inevitable LSAT 6mm in polymer cases.

>>34195454
What do you mean a stepping stone?

This doesn't progress the LSAT program at all, nor does it use any lessons learned from it.

There's no way these rifles will be rechambered to a poly cased or caseless round

>>34195431
Again, the issue is future enemy armor. Virtually every competent or somewhat decent army is issuing at least Level 3s, which stops 5.56 in its tracks. In the near future its not unfeasible that China, Russia, and their customers/proxies will be fielding Level 3/4 plates.

>>34195419
Which is why the US loses wars, they lack any ability to win infantry fights

By the time the air support has arrived, the enemy has fled
No wonder the Taliban is stronger today than when the US invaded.

>>34195466
Level 3 stops 7.62 AP as well

>>34195472
This.
This thread is retarded. Any armor that stops 5.56 is also going to stop 7.62, especially at distance. Energy falls off quick past 100 yards with any service caliber.

>>34195470

Quit making shit up.

>>34195483
So you have to go bigger than 7.62 then

>>34195483
I said quit it.

>>34195470
can't win an insurgency without genocide and colonization. two things we refuse to do.

however, we've killed over a hundred afghans per american fucking injury so we've certainly no issue with current equipment if that's what you think.

>>34195493
>muh kill ratios

But if, when you leave, the enemy is now stronger than when you started, you have LOST THE WAR

Yes you can win a counter-insurgency without fucking genociding them

>>34195431
Dude this whole "overmatch" bullshit is just being fueled by that one arty officer that thinks 5.56 ballistics haven't improved since the 1960's and blames the DI system for the loss of his men rather than a poor understanding of maintenance requirements. His entire premise based on an infantry squad without indirect or air assets, equipped only with M4's using M855 going up against an enemy that actually has diversified small arms. His name escapes me, and he's had an impressive career, but in this regard he's a tier one retard.

This shit is the equivalent of Ursula Von der Leyen pissing on the G36.

>>34195488
You are aware that there is a legitimate concern with a service rifle that making it too heavy, and with heavier rounds as well that soldiers will be way more fatigued and not be able to carry as much ammunition, right?

It's why our guys don't care .338 LMs my dude, 5.56 is a very efficient round for lethality/weight.

>>34195496
could you perhaps quote a successful counter insurgency that didn't involve genocide? I'd sure like to change my mind.

>>34195464
We can't go higher from 5.56mm receivers, but we can go lower from 7.62mm. We want a few of them 7.62 guns right now anyway, for the middle east wars. They will act as indicators for how much better the squads will be with some extra range.

>>34195506
No, the purchases will line someone's pockets after they retire..

>>34195496

How are they stronger? The Taliban used to literally govern Iraq. Now they are nothing. ISIS, too, is about to collapse. They are weaker than they've ever been before.

>>34195502
So cut body armor from most of the squad
Add some sort of electric powered "pack robot" for carrying water/food/extra ammo

Light infantry are absolutely overloaded on weight and needs to be drastically cut.

>>34195510
They always do that, though. I'm betting the contract will go to HK and their 417. They've been winning everything, lately.

>>34195520
>Taliban

>Govern Iraq

Hello retard. And even at the height of their control in AFG, there were still large sections in the north that they never controlled.

>>34195526
>cut body armor

Nah fuck you

>>34195526
>cut body armor

You're incredibly dumb if you think that's an option. We may see advances in lighter armor, but we'll never just stop using it

>>34195542
in the mountains body armor can be the difference between making it to cover or taking a bullet. sure it's nice having a few inches on your chest that'll stop or deflect a round, however outside of that initial burst of fire the only thing out of cover will be your head and weapon.

>>34195546
>>34195542
If you are fatigued from wearing too much weight, and you can't maneuver or spot IED's
Then your body armor isn't going to help you

Not everyone needs it

>>34195551
And taking a taking a bullet without armor is generally shittier than taking a round with. Are you seriously this dumb? Do you think wearing armor gives you +15 DEF and -20 Mobility?

>The rifle should weigh less than 12 pounds unloaded and without an optic.

in other words, they're going to make it 11.9 pounds

jesus fucking christ, not only a heavy gun, but the poor sob's are going to be carrying heavier ammo as well.

>>34195567
12 is nothing. Lift more.

>>34195561
Armor is not going away and is modern PC's aren't nearly as cumbersome as you think. With the exception of extremely lengthy dismounted LRP's (which isn't often a task performed by grunts anyway), armor is going to be worn in combat zones.

>>34195571
>12 pounds unloaded
>13 pounds loaded
>15+ pounds with optics and accessories
>wanting to carry that 24/7 inna desert

>>34195565
I was going to be a dick back, but in reality it's not fun to make fun of the handicapped.

If you're having a hard time grasping the concept of body armor slowing you down, I want you to do a practical exercise like running 2 miles and then when you recover attempt the same feat again with body armor or a backpack with 40 pounds in it. Now after you've done this compare the times of those two events. This will allow you to realize what degree body armor will limit your mobility. You'll realize you're actually giving up quite a bit to be able to stop a bullet for a small section of the front and back of your body armor to stop a direct hit.

With that explanation out of the way, it's reasonable to suggest that your ability to take cover being slowed down by a mere second or two could be the difference of life and death. Or your ability to return accurate fire after a 15 miles hike. Or your ability to continue to walk after rolling your fucking ankle with extra fucking weight. The list goes on dude.

>>34195584
That's only around 6kg.

>>34191241
The AR 10 has the most compatibility with their current servix raifu

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I don't wanna be that guy, but out of the 5 battle rifles I own, I'd rather have my RFB on "bring your own rifle to war" day. It's just comfy and compact as fuck.

Pros:
>fully ambi, no adjustment necessary
>18" barrel 7.62x51 rifle with decent accuracy up to football field distance
>small package (roughly the same length as an MP5 with stock extended)
>uses metric FAL mags
>most well-balanced battle rifle
>still shorter than M16 even when suppressed
>optic ready
>adjustable gas

Cons:
>requires lots of training to git gud
>bullpups have shitty triggers
>can't use 50 round drums :(

>>34195601
It would be more relevant to the action of sprinting to cover if you were comparing sprint times, dummy.

>>34195622
again, you're arguing semantics.

I want you to walk 15 miles without body armor then sprint 100 yards and then walk 15 miles with body armor and sprint 100 yards.

Compare times smarty pants.

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>>34191241
>>>34195419
>Which is why the US loses wars, they lack any ability to win infantry fights
>
>By the time the air support has arrived, the enemy has fled
>No wonder the Taliban is stronger today than when the US invaded.
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about do you kid?

>I've never carried a rifle further than the distance between my parked car and the bench at my local shooting range

>>34191241
Why don't they just get the ARAK?

>>34195621
A bullpup might be superior, but it looks different. Looking different is a hazard, apparently. I don't think it matters, but DMR and LMG infantry do get targeted if they stand out.

>>34195601
And I'm telling you: body armor isn't going anywhere, no matter how much of a narrow shouldered twink retard you are. There are many different areas that are worth exploring in cutting weight; 2-4 ceramic plates aren't it. No shit, wearing armor makes you slower, but not in any meaningful way. No one with a PC on that's gotten shot has said "boy I wish I wasn't wearing armor I could've dodged that bullet!"

Pretty much you're a fucking idiot that prolly has 0 experience in the field your talking about, but hey it's /k/ so I'm sure you'll fit right in.

>>34195633
Mythbusters already did compare sprint times between someone with a gun and that same man with 5 guns on his back. The results were surprising. There was only a small difference in times. It seems that a little extra weight isn't as hampering as you think.

>>34195645
sure you're more likely to be first hit if you're so fucked up that they can see that many of you and have the time to decide who they're going to shoot first. That being said, looking different means absolutely fuck all compared to exactly the same. Are they going to get confused because everyone looks the same and simply leave? probably not.

>>34195653
You have a link to that, I'd like to watch it.
>>34195648
don't forget to tip your range master.

>>34195472
Then its a good thing the article specifies that the new 7.62 round defeats those plates then.

i'm not sure what the future wars will look like in terms of infantry ammo but we dont have a monopoly on plates anymore and have to plan accordingly..

>>34195621
I would love an RFB. But for a .mil contract Kel Tec would need to make more than 5 a day.

>>34195653
It makes sense really. Roman soliders used to march while carrying tents, wooden poles, shovels, armour and other things.

Even carrying 80lbs of equipment does not slow you down that much. Let alone 40lbs that is the weight of 5 rifles and some ammo

>>34195571
Looks like somebody just volunteered to carry the all the comms equipment.

>>34192973
>*US troops are getting harrassing fire from distances longer than their rifles and personal skill sets allow them to reach out to effectively

Ftfy

>>34195633
Fully heavy body armour is only 32lbs and there are even lighter versions that weight only 20lbs.

30lbs of weight is not a lot. And modern soliders don't really do long marches apart from training ones.

>>34195567
Why are Americans such snowflakes? I walked carrying 50lbs for 3hours as a 13 year old boyscout.

>>34195683
If you carry stuff correctly (i.e in a nice well secured backpack that doesnt jostle a ton), you can still move very easily.

The problem is more in stamina, it's tiring to carry lots of junk, and depending on how you carry that junk, it could be a lot of bulk on your person that basically acts like a big winter jacket and makes you overheat.

Like, think of a firesuit and bottle and mask and all that; it's not THAT heavy and it's easy to stand around with and you can move in it somewhat easily, but you get really hot really fast.

>>34195503
can you quote a successful counter-insurgency in general?

>>34195653
>>34195683
In certainly matters when you are trying to catch up to some pyjama wearing taliban running across mountain ranges while lugging a shitload of stuff yourself

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>>34195739
Oh the memes of Talibans. Dude your bitch tits soliders are getting shot at by locals because you send low IQ mongrels that rape women.

How many cases have there been of US soliders raping Japanese women? Its far more common in shitty countries where they get away with it

>>34195739
>>34195751
These chubby cheeks basketball Americans are not fit to walk 15 miles butt naked.

>>34195751
Raping women is haram. Raping boys is another matter.

>>34195683
>Even carrying 80lbs of equipment does not slow you down that much.
iirc medieval knights and even earlier dudes also carried about 80-100lbs of kit before starting to say it's too much and offloading it onto squires or w/e

same for roman troops

it's just that stuff has gotten lighter, so soldiers carry more individual things. like instead of a dozen javelins you have a dozen mags, the 2l leather waterskin has been traded for a 1.5l plastic canteen and half a kilo of candy and gum, etc.

>>34195739
>when you are trying to catch up to some pyjama wearing taliban
And you're chasing him because he knows he is completely outmatched and is running for his life. Do you really want to give him the benefit of running around in pajamas too?

>>34195728
>3 hours
Wow anon, that's both impressive and relevant in some way. You should not throw yourself off the nearest tall building.

>>34195667

Can't be bothered to find a link on my phone, but it's the videogame special episode. I found a summary of the experiment.

>To test this myth, the team found an abandoned military building and outfitted it to look just like a level from DOOM. Then they populated it with weapons, items, and monster demons. Their control test was to complete the level only carrying one weapon at a time. The second test was to hold on to every item they came across, with the load eventually totaling 80 pounds. Both Adam and Jamie nearly doubled their times when they had to lug around all that weaponry, and were ready to call the myth busted.

>But Adam and Jamie aren’t exactly videogame heroes — they aren’t beefy and athletic. So the guys brought in Brendan Schaub, an experienced MMA fighter, to serve as a better avatar. When Schaub ran the course, the 80 pounds of gear only increased his time by 3 seconds. The team figured that if your game avatar is anywhere as robust as Schaub, the myth is plausible

>>34195644
Because they're not really well thought out guns.

>>34195375
>>new threat posed by 7.62x54R
LOL

>>34195786
>He doesn't know that pulling out a knife and holding it to the direction of travel decreases drag by 10%

>>34195503
The Malaysian emergency
Not him tho

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>>34192947

>>34195654
Not the same anon, but consider the following. My original thinking on the matter a while back after I saw them phasing out the SAW with certain groups was that wouldn't it be better to look different with certain weapons, that is to say have a bigger intimidation factor, especially considering the group's mentality (Taliban, at the time) for fighting them? My instructor pointed out that, while the intimidation factor is solid, the bigger issue is what's going on in the other groups mind. Sure they may say, "I don't want to Fuck with that" but that may soon turn into, "I better take that guy out first, so my group doesn't have to worry about him. It's the same reason why you take out the comms guy or officer first if you can see them, it shifts the fighting into your favor. And while you won't always have to worry and you might know where your enemy is to take them on, it won't always be the case. Guerilla fighters have the advantage of oftentimes blending in to the background and using civilians for information. Top this with guerrillas using ambush tactics and the reason for similarity becomes a lot more understandable.

>>34195760
They also would carry that shit on carts till they got to the battlefield.

>>34191344
I'd the G3 even being produced by the anymore? Even Mexico moved on with the Guac 36.

>>34193078
I read that post with a thick Slavic accent lmao.

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To every retard suggesting the AR-10, try reading.
>a collapsible buttstock

>>34191241
I love the M14, don't get me wrong, but the action on that is terribly prone to jamming if anything other than bullets or grease get in there. It was a great design in the 1930s and 40s, and it got the job done in WW2 and Korea, but the muck of Vietnam pretty much showed why the Garand action needed to go.

>>34195431
The American military is a business.

That alone should answer every inquiry you might have about their logic today and in the future.

>>34196368

That also eliminates all bullpups. SCAR pretty much wins by default.

>>34196400
So this whole thing is to pay off a bunch of Belgium lobbyist.

>>34191344
>FAL
>actually thinking that someone would still adopt a 3MOA out of the box gun

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>tfw they will never adopt pic related

>>34196368
Grandpa spotted

Whatever happened to the LSAT program? I thought they were gonna put out a 6.5mm rifle and LMG.

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>>34196368
???

>>34196438
Not ready for prime time yet

>>34196368
Are you really this retarded or is this b8

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>>34196438
US Army is just memeing and LSAT will never be ready. I mean what the hell, a pivoting chamber when a rotating chamber is so much better?

>>34196452
Really? I thought they worked most of the bugs out of the plastic cases and hit their weight goals.

>>34196368
>>34196400
Collapsible and folding are two different things, sweet summer children

>>34196475

Huh, you're right. I let that other guy fool me.

>>34195403
>every fire team should have a m249 and m203 (excluding a breach team.)

HAHAHAHA HA

Guess how I know you never served. You just described a fucking fireteam. SAW gunner grenadier and 2 guys with rifles.

>>34196539
Did "breach team" and the advocation of using elcans not give it away?

>>34195735
Yes, the American Indian.

>>34196539
A squad is not a fireteam you pog ass bitch. Go punch a Vietnam vet for stolen valor while you're at it.

>>34195419
>the U.S army does not take pot shots.
I was talking about taliban tactics.

Why 7.62x51mm though?

Wouldn't it make more sense to have one of those modern calibers like .300 blackout?

>>34196717
What the hell good is a dmr for returning fire at pot shots?

>>34196721
I'm assuming they're trying to increase range and not the opposite.

>>34195760
>iirc medieval knights and even earlier dudes also carried about 80-100lbs of kit
Medieval knights rode horses prior and during battle and had special bitch boys to do all things for them when knights were resting and doing nothing besides combat.

>>34193267
>nogunz detected
They can mount in either direction

>>34196721
>.300 memeout
>good

>>34196727
Because it kills pot shooters.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=613_1380196192
Main thing about sniper fire that target is not aware that he is in teh crosshairs until bullet hits his face. Guns with volume of fire are better in establish fire superiority and suppression but here is the thing. It is useless. Because if you suppress ambushers' position they will just hide behind cover and walk way. You achieved nothing. If you engage them with sniper fire they may be hit unaware. You want them to have false sense of safety so they continue to stick their heads out of cover and mark their position with their own AK and PKM fire.

>>34193085

LEL

>>34196798
Fair point and reasonable explanation. I concede my argument and thank you.

>>34195611

6.8kg, less than a loaded SAW, I think.

>>34196707
Ummm he did not say anything wrong. Standard fireteam is exactly saw, grenadier and two rifles. Different units may have alternative setups (MP has a grenadier, saw, and rifle for example)

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PTR-91 ?

> cheap
> cheap magazines, they're 20 rounders
> proven design, reliable
> they get to suck h&k's dick again

>>34196798
yeah its regular doctrine that people trade shots back and forth at distances of 300-500 yards, but since you dont know exactly where they're at and you'd have to compensate for drop and windage there's not much chance you'll hit someone

but both sides have designated marksmen, and the dice roll is how long itll take before they get in position and start zeroing you before you move

> fighting against the US however, you're also rolling dice against whether they think its worth it to call in an airstrike or artillery, so if they can pin you down in this potshot fest they buy time for the A10/AH64 to do a flyby and rip you in half

>>34193228

Im okay with the SCAR but I

FUCKING HATE
that cheek plate and that square as hell trigger

I wished theyd change that shit over time because I hated it at first glance, but I guess there's no room for innovation.

>>34195644
Because it's a peice of shit.

>>34195653
That's retarded

>>34195728
You're retarded and speaking from a position of no experience

>>34196368
Are you retarded?

>>34196388
It's not a business, it's a publicly funded nightmare.

A business would keep using M4s

>>34196467
Way more complicated

>>34197938
The vast majority of decisive, casualty inducing combat happens sub 300 yards.

This was also true in Afghanistan, the videos of guys taking extremely inaccurate fire then spending 2 hours shooting at the side of a mountain is the scenario that this new rifle is supposed to "fix" even though the guys aren't even aiming at anything specific at that distance.

>>34197960
I know that, what im saying is most of the combat happens at 200-500ish yards, firing all the way down the street. That doesnt mean its effective though.

Effective is when you pin guys down so you can send someone in to Select Fire them at close range - 50 to 75 yards. Flanking positions, or close enough that as soon as they peek out they get shot up close.

The XM-25 was supposed to fix shit like this but I think it would've made the US Mil too effective in ground combat to continue to be used as "pawns in the game"

> because then you are your own airstrike, and your DMR guy is firing that and it has a 100% chance to fuck them up even if they arent peeking.

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>Meet the new gun, same as the old gun

>>34193303
>>34197952
Well that fixes the stock at least.
Now time to file off that damn trigger guard so you can put in a winter trigger.

>>34196721
>>34196732

Wanting to increase penetration, which means increasing firepower.

I thought they had problems with that 7.62mm EPR round penetrating like crazy already?

Still the OP suggests that they're working on a hotter 7.62x51 round. I dont know how you can make it hotter without causing problems but thats the only way youll keep the same dimensions and increase firepower.

>>34195561

I think they should all wear armor but only the IOTV for full contact.

You dont want shitty stuff being able to kill you like pistols, shotguns, or random fragmentation flying in from who knows where.

And it should be incorporated into a Cooler Vest of some kind so you stay cool out in the hot sun (hydration vest sorta thing). Because that keeps guys sharp and more effective in these climates.

No one really thinks they'll go with some FAL variant right? Its going to be something home grown.

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>>34195551
>>34195565

Actually ive got to agree with this. Its like throwing rocks m80... the lighter rocks and the railroad stones both throw just about as far, at some point your range decreases with heavier ones (like grenades) but below that having the stuff be lighter aint going to make it go proportionally farther.

When it comes to strength, since we're talking roleplaying statistics here, there is the "Light Load" carrying capacity and anything under that isn't gonna make you any faster.

And at least in D&D the bigger problem with Armor is the armor itself not how much it weighs. Thankfully modern armor doesn't restrict your movement as much because it doesn't do much to your legs. Those bomb disposal suits sure do but thats to do more with the fact they weigh like a suit of Full Plate on top of being hard to move around in.

> The best infantry armor that we use is lightweight and maneuverable enough that in an emergency its not going to stop you from making a quick rush to avoid a grenade or getting shot. It might cost you a little more effort, but it wont hamper your speed.

> If you're weak enough that you cant expend that effort to get that speed, well thats the reason why they make soldiers do all that training - so you have that capability when you need it.

>>34195565


Of course it does, you imbecile. Not all the time. But compare lightly equipped insurgents with heavily armed, armored, and equipped riflemen and there's going to be a significant difference in mobility and exhaustion of troops.

>>34198162
Yes, there's a difference, because when they get shot, they die.

The vast majority of the times our guys get hit, they survive.

The Armor, meds, and LBE help a lot with this.

>>34198141
> home
> grown

Nothing is ever homegrown in the military. They pick from stuff thats established out in the field, or the commission folks with a design challenge with absurd requirements (so that an existing model gets picked instead).

Thats like those PDW trials, no thanks we'll just go with the MP5 like we always did (when thats what they actually wanted, but didn't want to say thats what they already decided on).

There isnt much room for innovation, they upgrade their capabilities very slowly when it comes to weapons.

>>34198197
He definitely meant made in the US.

>>34198191

> orcs die when they get stabbed.
> knights of gondor get wounded but receive aid.

> orcs dont give a shit about each other, even blow themselves up to destroy the wall of helm's deep.
> knights care to see their buddy fight another day, defend each others' honor.

>>34198206

I honestly wish we'd pick up using soviet shit, like take their designs and improve on them. Because then we'd be using the enemy's ammunition against them.

But there's too many stuck up attitudes about this.

>>34191241
What's the big fuss about anyways. A SCAR/HK417 500k-rifle programme would cost like 1-2 billion pocket money over several years. The Pentagon greenlits cheap shit like this for breakfast.

>>34198249
>500k-rifle programme
>he thinks military has 500k grunts
>pro tip: POGs are not grunts

>>34198219
>>34198197
Why improve old Soviet shit when you can design something that outperforms that? Why this idea that the US can't design a better gun than the Soviets designed over 50 years ago? Have some pride in your country's ability to design and produce weapons for fucks sake. Its not just some stuck up attitude, its showing the world you're a fucking superpower by designing better weapons than everyone else instead of using the scraps that your rivals have laying around like you're a 3rd world poverty militia. If you like them for yourself and your collection that's cool but for your armed forces? No, its not acceptable kys

>>34198191


But the lack of mobility is dangerous in itself. It forces reliance on transport assets and leaves your troops exhausted if they have to dismount and close more than a mile from an objective. Look at op anaconda

>>34198269
>he thinks military has 500k grunts
No, I don't. Grunts are obviously around ~120k. But they'll still need to have a stockpile and rifles for the pogs

>>34198219
Because it's retarded. 7.62x39 is dogshit as are most designs.

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>>34192498
>Or is this a way to spend money, before we spend even more money on new 6.5 creedmoor rifles?

>or is a vast and powerful bureaucracy inside the federal government trying to justify expansions to its already huge budget and feed the ego of the supply O7 who is retiring and wants a "legacy"

Hmm I don't know Anon, you tell me

New M4 caliber: .277 Wolverine
New DMR caliber: 7.62x45
Military needs to call me already and I'll get this shit sorted out.

>>34198271
>>34198317

> AN-94 shoots two shots so damn fast they both hit the same target, in different places.

Im talking more about the ammunition though. The 5.45mm is so damn common we should be shooting that so we can just take ammunition from any caches we find and off the enemies we defeat.

Meanwhile we could have our own EPR style version of it that gets issued.

Ammunition is a bitch to logistics, and if we have ammo flowing out our ears because we keep taking it vampirically from the enemy thats alot more IDGAF when it comes to trading volume of fire back and forth.

>>34198321
THIS
most likely

>>34198339
>if we take ammunition from enemy caches

Most of what they use is old as shit, corroded, and more often than not what you'll find in a single insurgent's magazine will come from different factories and different countries, with different loads.

This is part of the reason that they can't shoot for shit. Using consistent and high quality ammunition, and training constantly with the same ammunition as is used in combat is a big part of what makes our soldiers and marines monsters in combat.

>>34198339
>Ammunition is a bitch to logistics
lol no it's not, and the cost of outfitting the entire us military with new rifles and calibers is not worth it.

>>34198332

Nahh the DMR shit needs to be over 4000ft-lbs, they need to go bigger with that, and use it in medium machineguns too.
> this is similar to the LWMMG in .338 Norma.
> less ammo, but it retains energy and effectiveness alot farther downrange

And M4 caliber should be something like a .223 case necked up to 6.5mm. Higher bullet mass will increase penetration and stability, the ballistic arc might be worse due to lower velocity but you can compensate for that.
> 600 yards effectiveness standard, without tweaks
> same roundcount per mag unlike 6.5 gren
> weighs a tiny bit more than .223 thats all

>>34198363

> its not a bitch to logistics
> outfitting an entire army with new rifles and ammo isnt worth it

One of these is true, the other is not.

>>34192353
good lord what an ugly weapon

>>34191241
please pick ptr91

>>34191241
please don't pick ptr91

>>34198365
.277 Wolverine is a 6.8 bullet in 5.56 brass

>>34195751
How many Japanese women thanked them for it?

>>34195645
Well considering how small an RFB is, maybe if you're carrying one, nobody can get a good look at it and therefore can't just shoot you for having a different gun.

>>34198162
>Of course it does

>not all the time.

Not only do you contradict yourself within the first line, you have to draw comparasions between real life kit loadouts and stats from fantasy RPG to garner an understanding. You are legitimately too stupid to be having this conversation, which we already knew considering you honestly think not wearing armor is an acceptable solution to a question no one is asking, especially when you're so incredibly ignorant of how light armor can be.

>>34191241
I hate when people refer to it as the 7.62mm let's call it what is : 30 caliber. I also hate when people love .300 blackout but hate 7.62x39mm they are the fucking same.(different rifle usually, but now you can get an AR 15 that fires 7.62x39mm with all the 8 lug rotating bolt direct impingement goodness)

>>34191241
Here's something else you shitheads didn't think of. Subsonic ammunition. That's probably why they are looking for a new 7.62 rifle

>>34196707
wrong please kill self, a squad has 2 SAWs and 2 Grenadiers

t.11bang

>5,56 vs 7,62
>9mm vs .45

That shit is starting to get really old and annoying. The smaller calibers kill just fine, and have proven themselves over several decades. If they crave bigger calibers that much, then they should just adopt new NATO rounds, with one round replacing both 5,56 and 7,62 to simplify logistics.

>>34198332
>277 Wolverine
>7.62x45
>we need more range
>choose calibers with low BC stubby bullets and low capacity cases

so they want a SR25?

>>34196759
>nogunz lol
kill yourself

>>34191344
You're retarded

>>34198695
How big is your squad and your fire teams also stryker, mrap, or dismount. Different setups for each

>CZ bren
>add bolt release and convert to .308
>Literally a scar for 1k cheaper

>>34198277
AND 8 AMERICANS DIED IN OP ANACONDA VERSUS 200-800 TALIBS YOU STUPID WASTE OF CUM RETARD MOTHER FUCKER. GEE MAYBE BODY ARMOR PLAYED A ROLE

>>34195728
Because all soldiers also only carry 50 lbs, and only walks for 3 hours on even terrain under moderate weather.

>>34195503
Second Boer War

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>>34191344
>>34191382
>>34191371
>>34191389
>these fags thinking they're gonna choose a rifle that uses 7.62x51

You all forget that 556 penetrates body armor better than 7.62 nato. It's a smaller projectile going faster.

When the military speaks of a "7.62" for better armor penetration, then it's gonna be a whole new meme cartridge. NOT x51.

>>34191241
>now
"Our guns aren't penetrating enough, we need a bigger round."

>in 20 years
"Our soldiers can't handle the recoil or carry enough ammo. We need a smaller round."

repeat ad infinitum

>>34198907


yeah dude thas why it was that ratio. body armor not air support and superior numbers and supply lines and medical care or anything okay buddy

eat a dick

>>34199116

Lol .223 does not penetrate armor better than 7.62 it just doesn't have the power.

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>>34201771
>hurr durr i am soooo smart because I noticed that the army once switched from a full size to an intermediate rifle round durr

hey faggot. Did you ever realize that OPFOR didn't wear body armour when the 5.56x45 was adopted, and that things change, and that you're not smart?

>>34193917
>shits where it eats

How new are you? That's straight fuddlore bullshit anon.

>>34196721
.300 blackout is actually .308, which is 7.62x51. You take that bullet, you jam it in 5.56 brass, you now have .300 blackout.

>>34195499
That's not exactly wrong though -
Counterbattery fires have gotten extremely fast and accurate, and ground based AA is at the point that it can shut down airspace to everything but high altitude UCAV's.]

It's not illogical to assume an infantry platoon/company may have to rely only on it's organic firepower for a time - It's a reason why US platoons have 60mm mortars, Javelins, M240's and DMR's, and it's also the reason why a Company is going to have access to an 81mm mortar, Carl G's, drones, and (unless for some unkown reason they truly are light dismounted).50's and Mk19's

>>34197894
With JUST a small 8x or under optic, a light weight collapsible stock assembly, and wide handguards you could keep it relatively lightish.

The problem is the military would want a bull barrel, not just a heavier profile, and they would want to slap shit all over it making it a 13lb behemoth.

The AR10 can be made into a lighter platform if they are smart about it.

>>34198339
5.45x39's commonality is entirely regional. It's common in Afghanistan because they fought the USSR, it's going to be common in eastern europe and the Caucasus.
Shit's not common in Africa, South America, South Asia, etc.

Also another reason why we aren't designing shit around Soviet ammo is because - 54R is rimmed and limited in application (as a battle rifle cartridge), 7.62x39 is dogshit at range, and 5.45x39 underperforms compared to 5.56x45.

And there is also the fact that we sabotaged millions of rounds during Vietnam (and later), and the fact that enemy ammo can be of wildly varying quality

>>34198365
The military wants effectiveness out to damned near 1000m. Optics are changing the game and the impetus is increasing proliferation of body armor.
The issue is 5.56x45 Black Tip AP is just as effective at penetration if not more so than current known 7.62x51 AP.
So did they develop a SLAP round for 7.62?

>>34198902
The CZ Bren has had some teething issues though

>>34202294
>as a battle rifle cartridge
Shut the fuck up debil PKM is the greatest squad machine gun in the world

54R has been manufactured more than any other round in the world, wests always changing rounds because fucking capitalists always make stupid for money Russia get it right the first time do not bring 54R into your stupid capitalist shitfest cyka BLYAT

>>34196379
M14 and M1 are different rifles.

>>34194404
Underrated

>>34199033
that involved genocide, quite a lot of it

>>34202329
>implying soldiers can hit 10x8'' plate from 1000 meters

>>34202294
>and 5.45x39 underperforms compared to 5.56x45.
5.45x39 has better BC (despite been steel and light) and has less recoil (remember USSR designed everything around automatic fire) as result Ak-74 is automatic gun when M4/M-16 is semi auto. So it is 5.56 who underperforms here.
>inb4 automatic fire is useless
In teh case of M-16 indeed it is.

>>34191241
.300 memeout

>>34197894
Pretty shit trigger, ergos suck compared to ARs, no last round bolt hold open device. It's a great rifle, it's just not up to modern standards.

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>>34192177
I busted out laughing thank you so much, I needed that one.

>Swedish, part crow, or retarded
lmao fucking stellar choices for anything, replace all dialogue options in Mass Effect: Andromeda with these options and it would be a fantastic game.

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>>34191302
Lighter than a MR762

>>34202062
>.300 is .308

That's unbelievable.

>>34198474

Pretty new, hadn't heard of it before. Checking it out but from what im looking at it sounds just about what I was getting at.

Thanks for the tip, and it does look very promising.

>>34203509
The LMT MWS is .1lbs heavier, but iirc the specs on the HK is with a 10round magazine, so they probably weigh the same

>>34202294
>>34202645
>>34202358

As long as it can reach out to 300yd it doesnt matter 1 fuck.

Beyond that people are just shooting in the general direction of the enemy trading potshots, if the ammo is slightly less accurate it doesnt matter because you're running into territory of "I would have missed, but because the bullet deviated, it hit him anyway"

Also I will say Serious Kudos to the 54R. Oh its rimmed im gonna cry like a baby. Listen you design shit around hurdles like these, ive heard of .22s that almost never malfunction and thats a bigger fucking rim ratio than the 54R. Not to mention the Desert Eagle uses rimmed magnum rounds and is reliable AF.

Argument literally discarded.

And there's so much of that fucking 54R (and specifically, the belts it comes in) that we could be taking advantage of that shit. When it comes to machineguns you REALLY want to have AS MUCH ammo as possible, there's literally no argument against it.

And the 54R Match round is devastating. If you're using bolt action, feeding doesn't mean a damn thing. That thing tumbles like the 7N1 does.


News to me:
> sabotaged ammo in the old days?
> if you poked holes in the spam cans laying around they wouldnt have made it to modern day, sometime by the late 80s-90s they would have become corroded.
> the millions of rounds we sabotaged wouldnt be around anymore.

>>34193228
>guys I paid through the ass and have to justify my purchase.

>>34199116

Except the request for proposal specifically asks for 7.62 x 51.

>>34202329

I dont think you and me are thinking of "Effectiveness" in the same context.

That .338 Norma is effective out to that distance, but it also retains 2 times the energy of a .308 at that range.

That means barrier penetration, going right through cars and masonry, even out at 1000yd.

5.56 is only going half the velocity even at 400 yards... literally its like shooting someone with a Ruger 10/22 at that distance
(What the actual Fuck)

Effective Range, in terms of striking power, for the 5.56 is barely 200 yards because its pretty much like a P-90 at that distance. Like being shot with a 9mm Glock.

I consider impact force the key issue. People arent going to shoot well past 300yd.

This is the difference between 5.56 and .308... the bigger stuff will still smack the shit out of you "out there" but that 556 will probably get stopped by a lowly police vest.

>>34202329

.300 win mag?

>>34205284
fuck man, at least take 20 fucking seconds to google that shit before you post that garbage. sabotaging enemy ammo isn't about poking holes in spam cans, it's about either trapping the caches or messing with the cartridges themselves so that if the enemy tries to use it it gets glocknade syndrome.

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>>34192947
>American troops are getting slaughtered by ISIS squads that are using the extra range of SVDs and PKMs to over match them past 500m

>>34199116
It IS special snowflake round, but it's still a 7.62x51, it just has a funny snowflake bullet

>>34196368
Boss?

>US asks for a new .308 battle rifle
>They just re-adpot the M14
>Again
I am okay with this

>>34195393
AR-12.5

>>34191302
>>34191289

What I'm hoping for

America's rifle should be American.

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>>34199116
>fast and small = better penetration

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> virtually all combat in the future will consist of police actions in massive metropolises like Mexico City, Baghdad, and Dhaka at distances of less than 200 meters
> automated drone weapons will make mass infantry and armor actions between developed nations suicidal
> world's most powerful military decides to replace cheap, reliable, and adequate 5.56 for special snowflake intermediate cartridge so that infantry can participate in engagements at distances where the average soldier will be lucky to hit within 10 meters of their target during combat
> all because untrained, illiterate rural insurgents regularly use a 50-year-old GPMG that fires a 100 year old cartridge

So we all agree that the PK is the most important weapon of all time, right?

>>34195143
>>5.56 won't penetrate esapi level plate
They literally just spent a couple million making M855a1 which is penetration fucking the barriers its shot at for target practice, the steel plate backing, the cement barriers before stopping at the Officers lounge 500 meters away, and the fucking idiot is calling for a fucking 7.62 replacement.

Holy fucking hell.

>>34195414
Exactly, at what range. ISIS does not have body armor, despite as much as they want to pretend they do.

If we're talking Afghan ranges, definitely not, ignoring how Afghanistan turned out to be the odd man out in modern conflicts in terms of what range conflict happened.

And that only turned out to be a mess because the Military is full of idiots who want to chop down rifles, mags and kits before focusing on body armor, fucking batteries which still use heavy as all hell lead acid type, radios and other electronics and equipment that is woefully out of date by a good two decades, and is as heavy to match.

And then they had the issue of procurement when the military realized, "Hey, we actually need more than four marksman to a battalion because it turns out that issuing 1 out of every 10 fuckwits, 4x ACOGS doesn't do jack shit, especially when the officers are being mongoloids and keeping them for themselves.

>>34195375
>More range
kek

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>>34206659
>mfw they adopt a m14 that can pass a mud test

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>>34208572
>they dust off that old ZK420s that's sitting in a museum to create an exact replica of and modernize it while adjusting it so it won't be as stupidly expensive to make and easier to mass produce.
>cover up open ejection port a bit and rework the carrier so that it seals up nicely
Don't have an idea what they can do with the slot the charging handle moves in.
Or what they can do about the weight unless they pull a Winchester Proto m14 and cut away as much stuff as they can without affecting accuracy and durability and/or use stuff like aluminum or magnesium alloys.

Maybe also a fire rate reducer like the T44E1 and keeping the original receiver length so that the bolt and carrier have time to slow down without it smacking into the rear of the receiver if they want it to have full auto.

It certainly would be interesting to see.

>>34206889
not that guy but that's how it is, you retard.

>>34205299
He bough a SCAR17 not an HK MR762.

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>>34208572
>>34209544
>someone comes up with an M14 no-bedding-required chassis that isn't stupidly huge and weighs under two pounds
>stick the ZK420 in it
>"well shit this thing's better than the AR-10 after all"
>decades of autistic screeching from ARfags follow

>>34209544
>>34210820
>tfw this will never happen
I just want a modernized civilian m14 or zk420