Power armor soon. How will it effect warfare?

>>34184038
theres no need for it. it adds more cost and complexity. most deployed soldiers these days do fine with their standard armor

I'll get shit for this, but the exosuits in Advanced Warfare aren't too shabby since they improve basic strength and speed allowing soldiers to carry heavier kits.
But when it's tough shipping basic body armor, flimsy robot skeletons seems like a tall order.

>>34184038
>implying this whole shitstain of a ''''Project'''' isn't just propaganda to reel in autists and cowwadoody kids into recruitment

>>34184058
People always talk about cost in these threads, shits just paper bro

I think the current armor's good, especially with the cool deltoid plates.

>>34184038
If they're able to actually produce an exoskeleton that can provide greatly increased armor and capacity without going off like an incendiary bomb and burning the wearer to death if the battery takes damage, then I'm sure that we will see them deployed to any force that can afford them e.g. special forces and paramilitary groups like the FBI and SWAT.
However, given that they seem to be sticking with designs powered by electric motors instead of hydraulics, you can be fairly certain that these things will be walking bombs and lack the longevity to be useful to traditional infantry.

>>34184038
Well I guess I didn't need to shoulder my rifle anymore.

>>34184215
Hydraulic lines are fucking deadly mate, not only that if any hydrolic oil actualy gets inside of you, you're skins starts turning black and you're fucking poisoned.

>>34184195
>>34184058
The main point is the strength increase allowing you to carry way more shit.

>>34184217
You're right you might not have to, or maybe you still could, it's essentially making your shoulder bigger and the gun further away from you don't see the problem or there could be something built into the shoulder to make it easier to shoulder

>>34184038
Until it can be made nigh invulnerable, power armor will never take off. Loading up soldiers and marines with an extra 200lbs of gear because "LOL power armor lift assist!" then having the the shit break down because a battery died, shrapnel/bullets dented/cut/broke something vital, or shit just failed because it was poorly maintained and machines sometimes just do that, is a great way to have your forces become useless.

>>34184215
>However, given that they seem to be sticking with designs powered by electric motors instead of hydraulics

I really, really wouldn't be liked to be trapped in a tin suit surrounded by 200bar pressured hydraulic lines.

>>34184253

Why do you need to carry more shit? What more could you possibly need? Power Armour only really seems like a good idea when ballistics and firearms technology advances to the point where it makes modern body Armour completely obsolete and you need tougher Armour.

Also it really ramps over all cost of everything up for the millitary, not only do you have to R&D them, you then have to buy them, maintain them and train grunts to use them.

There is no real advantage to them at the minute. Not until every one is running around with electro thermal rifles, on the moon defending space cheese or some shit.

>>34184297
>Why do you need to carry more shit? What more could you possibly need?

From what I've heard, these Power Armor things aren't actually being developed for combat troops, so much as logistics. They're being developed to help load and unload cargo in places where it's hard to get Forklifts and loading cranes mostly.

>>34184228
>>34184297
Hydraulics are dangerous, but the danger can be reduced significantly by building them into the suit in a way that directs force away from the user as much as possible.
Compare that scenario to carrying ~200 pounds of lithium on your back and having a cell failure. They wouldn't be able to find enough teeth to work out if there was someone standing next to you, let alone identify the horribly burned and dismembered corpses. If one went off in an IFV you'd kill the whole squad and probably burn the vehicle to the ground as well.

Electric powered is not going to be feasible for standard infantry.

>>34184297
What is wrong with being able to carry more shit and being invulnerable to small arms fire. That is a huge improvement to the infantrymans capability. You don't need to make improvements it just could be beneficial.

Once again you bring up cost. It is literally paper and shiny coins we pretend has value. The only things needed are the materials to make the suit.

>>34184177
warfare boils down to economics; what effect you can achieve with the resources you have. You fucking chromosome hoarder.

>>34184038
>How will it effect warfare?
It will be very expensive and stupid, because of the reasons mentioned above me.

>>34184404
Warfare amounts to dominating and killing other human beings it has less to do with paper and shiny coins fucktard and I literally said "materials" paper and shiny coins do not make armor fucktard

>>34184404
Spending a few hundred thousand per infantry man to make them near invincible to conventional small arms and able to carry all sorts of optics, AT/AA weapons etc. is amazing value for money compared to the price point of a single airstrike or fire support mission.

>>34184297

>What more could you possibly need?

A bigger gun.

>>34184386
t. Shut in with absolutely no understanding of the real world.
I mean, all the other bullshit you said aside, you can't just pretend like cost doesn't matter.

>>34184440
But you can't do that for a few hundred thousand?

>>34184372
You don't need to go to a battery stack for electric power. A 5 kilowatt microtubine could power armor, fed from easy to get JP9.

>>34184434
Fun fact: you can use currency to purchase armor! amazing!

Solid-state glass batteries combined with new developments in much more power efficient actuators could make an exosuit usable, but they're awfully expensive.

>>34184440
>a few HUNDRED THOUSAND per infantryman
>More cost effective than an airstrike
You're an oddity; clearly enough mental ability to type and yet everything you say sounds like a potato said it?
Guess what numnuts, infantry aren't worth a few hundred thousand EACH, especially not to (hypothetically) only make them bullet proof.

>>34184484

>10+ divisions of powered armor infantry.

There's only five infantry divisions active in the whole US army. Assuming that power armor is used for specialized roles, you'd be looking at 10,000 suits or so.

there will be exoskeleton suits. bank on it, can't wait to have my own civi version and go hiking.

>>34184500
A US Army Riflemen cost about a million dollars a year to keep in the field. Putting him in $90,000 armor wouldn't really add much to the cost.

>>34184372
>cell failure
Thermal runaway is the term you are looking for.

>>34184472
Retard with a ad hominin arguement that doesn't understand that we inflate and deflate "currency" to suit our needs it means nothing but we pretend it does to keep order. Where is the one place you don't need currency for bartering? When you're beating someone's head in with a metal fist, retard. The real currency is in power and force but you're too stupid to realize that. go play with your shiny coins.

>>34184509
>project cost: $80 million
>magic suits fielded at time of cancelation of project: 0

Apparently I won't be looking at any number of suits.

>>34184524
But I guess it is uncanceled now. The infantry equivalent of the f22.

>>34184372
>Compare that scenario to carrying ~200 pounds of lithium on your back and having a cell failure.
But anon hydraulic activated exo would have same battery too.

>>34184516
How much per year will each suit cost to maintain/fuel?

>>34184516
Reasoning with tards on this website is futile really makes you ponder intelligence possessed by people

>>34184386

Grrrr. Okay look at it like this. Apparently we just need the materials, fuck science.

But wait!

>We make it out of steel
>We run it off say a hydraulic power pack, that is driven by a diesel engine
>I know I know
>Off the bat it is now very heavy
>Let chuck Armour on it because it's heavy and expensive
>Oh shit nigger this thing is heating up how do we draw heat from the operator, the engine, the electronics
>????
>Passive air cooling? Massive fan, liquid cooling? More weight
>Bigger power pack
>Why?
>lol dunno some anon in R&D wanted to gear more gear
>What gear?
>lol dunno but I bet this steel, hot box, bullet magnet will make the infantry joes life easier

The army spends relative peanuts on training infantry. Joe carries everything he needs, everything else he cannot his buddies carry.

>>34184524
>R&D projects are expensive!

Yep. If you want to get 'em on the cheap move to Canada and buy them at the mass production cost twenty years after the US develops them.

Will melee weapons come back?

>>34184297
>and you need tougher Armour.
You need LARGER armor fist. Tiny plate covering 15% of the body is not so good protection against full auto AK.

>>34184038

Reminder that the army that united China had bronze weapons and armour while all the competing city-states had iron.

>>34184544
I never said fuck science, and I never said there would be a million problems, but I don't see cost as an issue. I'm purely talking about combat effectiveness. Don't we spend trillions of dollars on planes, cost clearly isn't the issue, so fuck it go all in stop pretending this paper is holding us back.

>>34184544

>Make it out of steel

No, you don't. Steel frame, UHMWP armor faced with ablative ceramic.

>Run it off a..

No. Run it off a microtubine powered by JP9.

>How to cool it?

Phase change heat pump. The 120 watts to keep an infantryman cool is trivial to a 20 kilowatt engine.

>What gear?

Threat detection systems, thermal visions, communication, weapons.

>>34184575
*wouldn't

>>34184484
How expensive do you suppose a mass produced exoskeleton would be? Even the most complex candidates are a frame, a few electric motors and a cpu. Your average consumer car is more complex. Even if it cost a million dollars a piece with the standard MIC mark up, it'd still be more than worth it for a buyer like the Rangers or Marines.

>>34184485
What could be better for infantry operations than having all of your men walking around making a very loud whining noise and giving off an IR signal that can be seen from high orbit?

>>34184500
>ifantry aren't worth a few hundred thousand EACH, especially not to (hypothetically) only make them bullet proof.
How much of an edgy 15 year old do you have to be to say something this fucking stupid and ignorant?
Training, equipping and maintaining a regular infantry man costs many hundreds of thousands. Training an elite soldier costs many millions. Treating casualties costs thousands, millions if its career ending.
Being able to put infantry in the field that can shrug off troops, snipers and even certain vehicle mounted weapons deployed by insurgents and poorer militarizes is worth all of the money in the world.

>>34184575

They can justify the F 35 because it can meet it's multi role specifications. It's not very niche. I know it has it's problems but the DoD can see an end product. It makes sense.

The Infantry man is cost effective, he is multi role and can go anywhere. He is combat effective, the infantry man has won thousands of wars over time with no power Armour.

Anon just how would a suit of power Armour be an upgrade to the existing infantry man. Bearing in mind the suit has to be made using today's science and materials.

Go.

>>34184564
If thats true then thats a very interesting bit of trivia, thanks anon.

>>34184546
thank you loch mart lobbyist

>>34184585

>UHMWP

Gram for gram it doesn't share the same load bearing qualities as steel and it has poor thermal properties. Impact resistant, sure. But it's compression properties when hot is poor.

>Micro turbine

Jesus why? Not only is it going to be a very hot thing, bonded to a plastic frame, it's also very vulnerable to the elements. The fuel efficiency of gas turbines is poor, they are also high maintence. There is a reason diesel engines come out on top for small scale power generation. How long are the suits supposed to be run for, whats the down time after X hours of 'micro turbine' use

>Heat pump

I'll give you that.

>Threat detection systems

Why? Army already deals with this on a cost effective scale

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>one soldier can now load a truck full of heavy shit by himself and also not have to worry about being shot while doing it

you armchair generals should know supply and logistics is the heart and veins of any army

this kind of ability is priceless and it's why we even fucking hear about power armor or exosuits being developed at all

>implying the military is even thinking of walking dudes into a battle with this shit

>>34184609
>Anon just how would a suit of power Armour be an upgrade to the existing infantry man.

>Render conventional small arms obsolete.
>Greatly reduce the effectiveness of shrapnel and over-pressure weapons that are currently used against infantry.
>Allow NBC suits to be worn with almost no reduction in combat effectiveness, making chemical and biological weapons obsolete.
>Greatly improve physical endurance, reducing performance degradation during battle.
>Greatly improve mobility while carrying heavy gear, such as squad weapons, ammo, launchers etc.
>Allow a unit to carry much more equipment as a whole without compromising performance.
>Allow for helmets with integrated HUD and optics without breaking the user's neck.
>Greatly reduce the chance of acute or long term athletic injuries.


Do you feel stupid yet?

>>34184609
>>34184609
I am not a scientist and I have no idea how to build a power armor suit, but someone smarter than me could figure it out, I imagine.

As you said making a very versatile and cost effective fighting force even more dynamic and combat effective, by arming them with another tool, specifically a tool that negates most of their weaknesses could be beneficial. Such as weakness to bullets, explosions, most of the current tools of war. It adresses most of our physical limitations, ideally.

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>>34184038
>TFW the british army was the first military to deploy with a partial exoskeleton...

>>34184643

Steel frame. The UHMWP wouldn't be load bearing.

>Why a turbine?

Turbines scale down very well for on-demand electric generation and can provide ~60% thermal efficiency, though 45 to 50 is more likely in a small application, while diesel engines have at best 45% thermal efficiency and in a small application would be lucky to break 35%.

>Threat detection.

Because IED detection and jamming would be useful when it's the only practical way for a low tech red force to kill you.

>>34184664

I do. I just realized I am arguing with a retard.

For the last time. The Exo suit isn't cost effective, the Army has solved those issue's you have stated and the systems work. There is no need to change the system to counter a threat that isn't there.

Yes the Exo suit is a nice idea, it would no doubt save lives but they are not practical.

The system works.

>>34184624

Not surprising, because Bronze is better than early Iron age iron in basically every way but cost. Bronze is very very expensive, and the geological formations that bear tin and copper are don't occur together. To have bronze, you have to have a strong trading network to source the copper and tin needed to make bronze.

What kick started the Western Iron Age is the collapse of northern trade following the sea people invasion. Tin came from Britain and Northern Europe, and without it, copper is a worthless metal for weaponry.

Qin being able to field armies equipped with Bronze weapons is actually a sign of their wealth and power rather than any supposed "backwardness".

>>34184664
This motherfucker has this shit well thought out, I enjoyed that post, made the specifics real clear to imagine

>>34184434
you can kill an army just fine with a knife, knives are cheaper than guns.

But if you outfit your entire army with knives, and your enemy are all carrying guns because they can afford them, your enemy wins.

People always talk about how power armor helps you lift shit, but why don't people ever talk about how power armor will finally make it possible to wear a helmet that will stop a full sized rifle cartridge AND not get a concussion as a result?

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>>34184038
I agree with a lot of what everyone else is saying about exosuits in combat roles. But what about in logistics roles? Could exosuits change how soldiers are supplied? In my mind, I see a single soldier being able to unload and move hundreds of pounds of ammo/food/etc of trucks, planes, around depots and such. Kind of like the purpose of the one in Alien, I guess? Just wondering what you guys think about that side of exosuits.
Also
>powered endoskeleton when?

>>34184702
There are definitely niches where exoskeletal armor would be greatly preferred. Room clearing would probably be the biggest. Being immune to 7.62 would be a decisive advantage. You wouldn't need a lot of them, and once a complex is clear, the armored soldiers would retire to re-charge, keeping the weight of the power source lower.

Police would also love it for hostage situations. They only need to work for 5-10 minutes, not worrying about enemy fire would allow police to move through a building much faster.

>>34184710
No shit are you going to kill me with a paper dollar and some coins?!
I'm specifically arguing for the more advanced weapon in this case, power armor. While you're still fucking around with paper and coins my army is building power armor.

>>34184704
The iron age in the west was really kickstarted by the fact that iron might not be as good a metal as bronze for some things, but people like the Assyrians noted that if you've got yourself and thirty of your best friends with iron weapons fighting one guy with a bronze sword and all his friends have clubs you are on the Winning Team.

A suit of bronze armor cost the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

>>34184521
>ad hominin
Underage b&

>>34184674
gonna need them to carry all those muslims the British love so much

>>34184731
23 years. Old fucko

>>34184721
powered endoskeleton in 200 years

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>>34184736

>>34184727
building power armor based the will of love and determination to make something cool.

Exoskeletons that can take the weight of a backpack off your back will probably get a combat debut in 5-10 years.

Power armor will be no sooner than 10-15 years. DARPA wants to do a ton of side-shit to get it to work like fuel-cell power, and haptic feedback. Which adds unnecessary complexity.

>>34184608
>all of your men walking around making a very loud whining noise
Had a hearty kek imagining this

Power armor will do one thing... Make it feasible to send top tier operatives directly into 100% you are getting shot situations. With power armor you can wear enough plate to just fucking eat magazines of bullets to the torso. It will be useful in door kicking small points of interest such as compounds that normally you expect a 40% casualty rate if you send guys in to storm the place.marines in fallujah just set up triage outside the door and man #2 was there to drag out man #1 because nine times out of ten he is getting lit the fuck up and thats just how it is. Eventually marine and infantry squads might have a powered pointman replacing one of their LAVs, since thats about how much it will cost.

>>34184079
No shit from me, I agree

Those exosuits were awesome. Not a lot of protection (unless you're one of the big fucks in the Goliath suit), but they maintained better mobility and added cool shit to the exosuits like shield and silent footsteps. I still don't get how a grenade launcher pops out of the arm part of the exosuit, but hey what is fiction.

>>34184500
Costs 2 million per solder.

>>34184754
Nope based on the will to win and defeat your enemy

>>34184038
M240 and M249 retired, replaced with Browning .50 Caliber SAW

>>34184735
why do the summerfags bring so much bong hate?

>>34184674
How does it work? What does it do?

>>34184776

Nope. Its based on artillery and logistics and very little else.americas army is #1 because of roads and 18 wheelers.

>>34184725

>room clearing

Grenades do that for 5$ a pop and you don't risk someone RPGing you as a last resort.

>being immune to 7.62

Are we talking x39 or full size? Because sure, immunity to AK is fine but have fun doing clearing and general city fighting with a suit designed to soak NATO/54R.

Enjoy your enemies just buying ghetto RPGs instead.

Basic RPGs are already pennies on the dollar and there's no stopping even WW2 grade RPGs in man portable armour. I still doubt the majority of armoured vehicles can still eat a PIAT in the ass or side.

>>34184434
And the only way to do that effectively is via logistics, which includes costs.

>>34184664
Oh Christ, it always come back to the fallout/40k autists. You could have just said "allow an infantryman to carry his kit without gradually fucking his knees", but no, you had to launch into this trite old iron-man fantasy.
>Render conventional small arms obsolete.
The kind of are armor coverage that would render small arms obsolete would go far beyond the diminished returns of flexion and adduction. You've got to be able to maintain a degree of dexterity, or the whole thing just gets in the way.
>Greatly reduce the effectiveness of shrapnel and over-pressure weapons that are currently used against infantry.
So this suit is hard, sealed and back-pressured? Or does everyone end up wearing EOD suits as standard?
>Allow NBC suits to be worn with almost no reduction in combat effectiveness, making chemical and biological weapons obsolete.
In terms of actually killing people, they were already obsolete, but forcing people to wear CBRN gear is its own reward. Even standing around with little burden your guys will be swimming in their own juices.
>Allow a unit to carry much more equipment as a whole without compromising performance.
So it becomes a crutch that you cant function without?
>Allow for helmets with integrated HUD and optics without breaking the user's neck.
We can already have that, its just not currently useful without the network to support it.

>>34184764
Holy shit really? I didn't know that about Fallujah. Imagine the fear of being man #1 knowing the odds are definitely against you.

>>34184685
>Turbines scale down very well for on-demand electric generation and can provide ~60% thermal efficiency, though 45 to 50 is more likely in a small application
Not sure where you got this notion, but you're fucking wrong. The largest, heaviest, most efficient gas turbines only net about 40% on their own. Large diesels can exceed this, but neither will reach 60% without a steam turbine for waste heat recovery (an arrangement known as combined cycle). But of course, that's not on-demand and it sure as shit isn't mobile.

Aircraft turboprops/turboshafts tend to be significantly less efficient (anywhere from 20-35%), usually for the sake of weight reduction and reliability. A "small application" would be lucky to even match the bottom of this range.

>>34184790
No I'm arguing why power armor is valid and you just changed the subject to murica, which is a bitch move and a consession of defeat.

Why don't you send your soldiers out on the field with dollars and coins, why not just airdrop money on the enemy, that would be an effective strategy, as money wins wars.

>>34184685
>Turbines ... ~60% thermal efficiency
you want an infantryman to carry a waste heat recovery boiler and a steam turbine?
rofl

Oh look, this thread again.

>>34184764
>kicking doors when you expect a 40% casualty rate
>Not just driving that LAV through the fucking wall

>>34184798
Yep costs, whatever it costs to win

>>34184791
With the power any decent set of power armor puts out, running a TROPHY system is trivial, hell even dual-layer electrocapavitive armor.
Also re: usage:

Oh for fucks sake. You'll be able to fire a gucking minigun from the hip, and your sqadmate has an entire rack of ATGMs on him. Power armor and the systems that go along with it are going to be the greatest force multiplier since the repeating rifle.

>>34184297

So that your infantry can
>outgun the enemy
>fight longer than they can
>be far harder to kill
>move far faster and far further in the field than the enemy

Winning is cheaper than losing. Training a man, paying, feeding and housing him for however long he's in the military, equipping him with guns, optics, explosives, NVG, flying him around the world and letting him drive the shit out of multimillion dollar vehicles is already expensive. Not losing all of that is worth another six figure piece of kit.

As soon as these get deployed and all the wearers start coming back with almost no casualties from small arms fire and light fragmentation, dumb grunts will start asking Uncle Sam for more of them.

I say when that time comes they shouldn't get shit. You like your tiny plate covering your stomach and just your stomach, then you should learn to love it for the rest of time. Meanwhile high IQ people will continue to find ways to stack it all over the body. Maybe you'll start asking for a bigger rifle, maybe you shouldn't get those either.

>>34184921
>Being this salty about losing an argument on the internet
wew

>>34184929
>losing
I just entered the thread and noticed the usual stupid people going off on "if it ain't broke don't fix it!", won't bother to read the rest of the thread until later.

Sure, okay. Spears and pikes weren't broke so you go on and keep using them, but that shouldn't stop smart people from arming up with muskets.

>>34184938
>This much polarizing butthurt and hyperbole
Sure, ignore the happy medium. Its either zero or bust, right?

>>34184521
So we're gonna pretend currency doesn't exist? This sounds familiar. Like, post ww2 Germany kind of.

>>34184968
Yes enjoy your happy medium of being dead from bullets because you don't need power armor, and I will enjoy my extreme position in surviving.

>>34184968
What do you mean by happy medium? Sorry, haven't had time to fully read the conversation you were involved in.

If you have a gas-electric powered or "spring powered" exoskeleton, you have way more carrying capacity than needed to cover the entire body in at least level 4 plates. You aren't getting much extra speed by skimping on armor, so might as well just make sure it meets a 100% coverage rating and think about what to do with the remaining weight capacity later.

>>34184982
I'm not going to pretend it's anything other than what it is, a tool for motivating people to go to work. when it comes down to survival or death, you don't have a choice! You work or die! That is reward in itself, surviving, you don't need to entice people with coins and paper when you are facing survival.

But the actual tools of war are made of iron and steel and other things used to actually kill people.

>>34184768
Most of the exos weren't armored beyond the normal amount. Only the red colored Atlas Elite soldiers in the latter half of the campaign were properly armored; those guys had full face helmets and real armor and can take an entire magazine to take down.

>>34184608
You're being short sighted, the cost of giving every soldier a suit if power armour won't only involve the cost of the suit itself.
You'd have to build new means of transporting exoskeleton infantry, current APC's and helos wouldn't be able to carry them or carry enough of them, you'd have to field vastly more or design new ones.
All the maintenance for them has to be done by new, specially trained personnel, more cost.
The spares, power packs, fuel etc for all these extra supply drains will have to be transported, meaning more vehicles and more personnel.
And that's just off the top of my head; it's not worth the cost, even if you think cost effectiveness is somehow 'edgy'.
And all this for a suit that anyone with an RPG can still take out. If you want protected infantry, put them in a mobile metal box, it already works.

>>34184721
Forklifts exist already.

>>34184725
>Hostage situation
How would wearing an exoskeleton stop them just murdering the hostages...

>>34184727
How are you paying for this power armour then? How are the private companies making it being paid? How are the R&D departments being paid? Is your government just going to let you spunk money with no limit? Are other branches going to let you just spunk money on infantry only applications?

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Unpowered is the way to go for now.

>>34184764
RPG's.

>>34184986
A happy medium is a based on cost:effectiveness ratio. Something that has a high cost of production, maintenance, and recovery if things go south for only a marginal increase in survivability and effectiveness is a one way ticket to the dumpster for the vast majority of military assets. See Tiger tank series as an example of that concept.
>>34184873
>TROPHY
>miniguns
>racks of ATGMs
Buddy, I don't think you understand the basic power issues not to mention logistic or tactics concerns. We aren't building Warmachine anytime in the next few decades unless we need to kill Ruskie Iron Man suddenly.

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>>34184038
Why doesn't it protect your dick?

>>34184984
It's war. People are going to die. Get over it.

>>34185008
You mines this iron? Who designs the materials? Who designs the weapons? Who designs the machines to make the weapons? Who builds the machines? Who assembles the weapons? How are they transported? Maintained?
These things have a cost in currency, resources, time, and manpower. If you do not have an economic and logistic base to support your new weapon you are not going to get to use it often, well, or where you need to. If I can equip a platoon with modern weapons and equipment for the same cost as one suit of power armor I'm winning this war.

>>34185008
8/10

>>34185128
we don't need dicks where were going!

>>34185100
With money. I'll pay them with shiny coins or maybe beads, or rocks. Yes my government will be funded from all the shit we take from your government because you decided not to do power armor because it costed too much. I don't see why they'd be against it if it made us win more easily.

>>34185133
Hmm, maybe.it depends on how bad you want them to die or not die. It's a choice in your investment strategy.

>>34185179
Safety in numbers is a thing friend.

I'd rather enter an area with 50+ hostiles with 40 of my decently armed and armored friends than 4 power armored pals.

>>34184812
Both the latest Sultser and B&W engines get 60% thermal efficiency. And GE is in the final stages of developing turbines that run on IFO with better than that.

>>34185145
Who does all this shit for current weapons like tanks. I'm not saying you don't need a logistical base, I'm saying if the technology is a net efficient aka it kills your fighting force and leaves you incapable of countering it by any means available, it pays for itself and thus cost is not the limiting factor because at that point I've won

>>34185186
There is also safety in an ac-130

>>34185205
Sure, provided your enemy lacks any form of anti-aircraft weapon otherwise you're boned.

>>34184253
The main point is being able to carry and power C4I gear with sensor fusion software, while retaining superior mobility and endurance.

The "power" is more important than the "armor"; that said, there are armors like metal foams that look very promising for both PA and normal infantry.

>>34185193
[citation needed]

>>34185203
Arguing with you must be like arguing with a brick wall.
A brick wall with downs.

>>34185203
Sure in principle. But that is not how real life likes to function.
Let's stay on point with power armor as our weapon. You get an increase in survivability against some small arms over conventional plates but it is not an invulnerable suit of armor. You have to have flexible joints, a power plant, and munitions. These are vulnerable to small arms. RPGs are extremely common as are IEDs and other high explosives. Overpressure is a righteous bitch and protecting against that in a human wearable suit is not some thing you could fight a war in powered or no.

If someone can field a weapon in numbers that can kill your armor for a fraction of the cost it stops being a massive game changer and gets relegated to jobs where they are less likely to be threatened which will most likely be jobs regular grunts can due suitably well.

>>34184058
Yeah, and tanks were just a fad and aircraft dogfights are just a distraction from thier true job as observation platforms right?

Cavalry still relevant? If our rifles dont weigh 14 pounds, measure 7 feet long, and only permit bolt action fire how will our soldiers ever fight a war whilst wasting all that ammo on semi auto fire? How will the repel trench attacks if their rifle doesnt double as a pike?

We gotta ditch all this trendy shit and get back to what matters! Entrenched static machinegun positions, bolt action rifles and mass infantry charges!!!!

(Youre pretty much mirroring military opinion after ww1 bruh)

>>34184833
>and getting it stuck on all sorts of things, plus maybe bringing the whole roof down on it
Also the small guy wearing armor is less likely to accidentally the VIP you're trying to capture or rescue, if that's the mission.

>>34184643
>>Threat detection systems

>Why? Army already deals with this on a cost effective scale

Go look up some videos on PVS-20 and the new color night vision under development.

Then look up Boomerang, Shot Spotter, etc.

Then look up TrackingPoint and its target acquisition/tracking capability.

Add all that together, and you have a system that can pinpoint where incoming fire is coming from and even tell you the caliber, based on the sound. And detect and ID targets using visual, near-IR (night vision) and far-IR (thermal) sensors. And produce a firing solution and adjust the digital crosshairs on your weapon. Or, depending on the circumstances, produce a set of coordinates (possibly even without lasing, although that would always make it more accurate) that can be transmitted to fire support with a voice command or button push.

Good Power Armor turns a soldier into a sensor and comms node for the entire force, as well as providing him with improved protection and mobility.

>>34184215
The issue is that while very strong hydraulics are very slow. Pneumatics are fast and strong but they require pressurised air to work, which requires a very noisy compressor running at high speed and if the airtanks are punctured its useless. Ditto for hydraulics, if the lines or compression cylender is damaged whole is a paperweight.

Servos arent the fastes or strongest but it makes each joint an independant unit so a full system failure is less likley. Also its the best blend of strength speed and quiet operation between the two other options.

Quite frankly though, its an early form of the tech. Im sure in future decades after artificial muscles come into wide use for such purposes they will look back on hydraulic, pnuematic, and servo driven contraptions much as we do the early ww1 tanks and biplanes.

Technically operational but obviously backward and unrefined.

>>34185257
pft, no need for that meme shit

The point of power armor is not having to pay disability to every single vet that ruined their back/legs humping weight

>>34185218
Easiest would be to go to MAN-B&W website and look at the slow speed engines. I don have a manual with me sorry.

>>34184770
That would be cheap enough for limited use; remember that tanks and APCs are upwards of $10M these days.

>>34184038

The verb is to AFFECT.

EFFECT is a noun describing how something AFFECTS another thing.

Why do us non native speaker Europeans always have to educate you fat cunts in your own language?

>How will it effect warfare?

Now even manlets and women can be used as cannon fodder.

>>34184038
Only given to the ones that carry mortars and ammo

>>34185235
RPGs and other armor-piercing solutions are more expensive, rarer, and harder to aim at a man-sized target than simple, cheap bullets.

Turning most bullets from serious threats into "potential golden BBs" is a worthwhile endeavor.

>>34185122
Well then usually a close match to the best possible cost:effectiveness ratio can be reached by not trying to package in too many specialized systems into each suit. One or two men in a squad could be the IED detector specialist, one or two of the section gunners could use a revived GE Microgun instead of a 240, but for the rest of the guys they are just up-armored people with conventional weapons. Basically no one else in the world is able to match this level of defense anytime soon, so there is no need to design suits that can accommodate the heavy weapons needed to face an equal opponent.

Keeping the concept focused on just "up armoring infantry" will help in preventing all sorts of excess that can come when dealing with the MIC. Don't let this become another F-35.

>>34185088
>You'd have to build new means of transporting exoskeleton infantry, current APC's and helos wouldn't be able to carry them or carry enough of them
Why, exactly? They are only slightly bigger than the average man. The amount of seats won't change.

Support personnel and supplies for it don't go out in the actual combat transports. With only a fixed amount of seats in a transport, the only way to increase the effectiveness of the forces deployed to a mission is to increase their individual Quality at that moment. Powered armor or even unarmored exos will be our first big break in advancing this Quality aspect (over quantity).

>>34184799
>You've got to be able to maintain a degree of dexterity, or the whole thing just gets in the way.

The suit only needs to be able to resist multiple small arm strikes to the head and center mass to make small arms obsolete, limbs do not need to be as well armored, but given the capabilities and structure of exosuits, there isn't much reason not to. Scalloped abdomen plates and soft armor on joints avoids any flexibility issues.

>So this suit is hard, sealed and back-pressured? Or does everyone end up wearing EOD suits as standard?

It could easily be. However, a fully enclosed helmet would offer drastically increased protection against concussions, ruptured eardrums and TBI, which are the most serious threats of overpressure. More so, the vast majority of AP ordinance use shrapnel to kill and having a high level of high and torso protection would greatly reduce their effectiveness.

>but forcing people to wear CBRN gear is its own reward.
That's the point. All of the downsides of CBRN gear - heat, weight, lower sight radius, lower flexibility are all mitigated by integrating it partially or fully into an exosuit.

>So it becomes a crutch that you cant function without?
Can modern infantry function without vehicles or radios on a combined arms battlefield? Pretty dumb argument, bud.

>We can already have that, its just not currently useful without the network to support it.
Hud systems aren't used because they're too heavy and fragile for the benefit they offer. I'm not sure what you mean by "network", but gps, thermal binoculars, long range radios, drones, digital maps etc. have all been in use for a while and being able to integrate all the different ruggedised gadgets into an officer's suit will be a very useful side benefit of exosuits.

>>34184440
>spend a few hundred thousand on an infantryman
>killed by a few hundred dollar rpg7 rocket/grenade
And the suit would probably be damaged as well. Sure is a better value than air support!

>>34185366
An f-35 would be blown up by an RPG-7 too

I'm sure that the medieval equivalent of /k/ also had fudds all up in arms about the nobles spending so much (taxpayer) money on those fancy full plate armor harnesses.

Warhammers and polearms exist! One good whack and those silly metal men will feel the pain, if not keel over because something vital was pierced and smashed. Not to mention that if you dogpile them with loads of guys they will be too tired to stand up and then you can kill them, easy!

>>34184386
Limiting your mobility with armor won't work out well, Ned

>>34185366
Ironically, rpg7s and grenades would be some of the least effective weapons against exosuits, since all of their wounding power comes from the shrapnel and debris threw throw around. If the suit can shrug off 7.62, then shrapel isn't going to do much.

>>34185236
Your logic is flawed. There were also hundreds of utterly retarded ideas that were vetoed at the time, and for good reason. A few examples would included armoured personnel shields (on wheels for 'mobulity') or the Tzar tank.
You can't just write off criticism for a demonstrably bad idea by pointing to people who tried to shoot down good ideas.

>>34184058

No they don't you nitwit, soldiers are blowing out their knees at a rate of 30% due to being overloaded from their current gear. Power Armor would allow them to carry that weight without it going into their knees, which is why its so important to develop!

>>34185298
>RPG's
>Expensive

>>34185329
>Slightly bigger.
Have you been in an APC? It isn't roomy, you WILL NOT fit as many people into it. >>34185394
>RPG7's
>Hurrr it's just shrapnel
Oh do fuck off, you can get different warheads.
>>34185396
Quick correction, I meant mobile personnel shields.

>>34185375
But an f35 isn't likely to be hit by a unguided rocket. A 7 foot tall lumbering man is.

>>34185419
>>Hurrr it's just shrapnel
>Oh do fuck off, you can get different warheads.

Jesus.

AP rounds for the RPG7 are fragmentation. HEAT rounds aren't supposed to be used against humans and the plasma jet will do fuck all against a person unless it's a direct hit. The only reason that Sackbars can kill anything will them is because they're in an urban environment 99% of the time and can hit a solid object that will fragment and throw debris at head and chest level.

>>34185423
> A 7 foot tall lumbering man is.

Getting a direct hit with an RPG7 on a moving man sized object would be a pretty amazing shot, almost as amazing as being able to stand around lining it up without getting shot first. Also, the whole point of exosuits is that they can move quickly like a human can. If anything exosuits will probably be able to sprint much faster than an average human can, since they can exert more power through the stride.

>>34185454
Sprinting in a straight line on flat ground maybe, but since it has to catch up to the person wearing it navigating complex terrain at high speed may be a problem. The additional inertia will make it less agile for sure.

Being able to move and take cover as a regular infantryman is where it shines. Having to deal with a smaller target due to a wall of concrete in the way is only exacerbated by the target also being really hard to kill. Then there's the advantage of being tough snowballing into allowing them to provide suppressive fire more often and more accurately because they don't have to worry about being shot so much anymore. The more suppressive fire they can dump out, the less that conventional troops will be able to bring their cumbersome heavy weapons to bear, which means even more suppression and containment of the threat as a firefight wears on.

>>34185093
Forklifts are gay.
You tell your son you are a forklift driver and he will hate you.
You tell your son you are a fucking mecha pilot and he will love you.
Doesn't matter you work in Walmart with both.

>>34185478
You can't move that fast over complex terrain with a combat load anyway, at least with an exosuit all you're worried about is falling over and maybe getting shot while you're down, rather than turning an ankle or smashing your face and being completely fucked.

>Then there's the advantage of being tough snowballing

I don't think you're thinking far enough with this. If a standard issue exosuit could one day stop battle rifle rounds and hoist 150 pounds of combat gear, then the enemy simply would not be able to deploy infantry against them unless they also had exosuits.
Being able to equip every rifleman with a liquid cooled LMG or a (functional) airburst grenade launcher would make current suppressible fire seem like a pleasantly warm summer drizzle and on the flip side you would need a crew serviced HMG or GL to even attempt to suppress the exosuits.
Without exosuits enemy infantry would be too immobile and outgunned to even be worth deploying.

>>34185574
>then the enemy simply would not be able to deploy infantry against them unless they also had exosuits.
Not deploying light infantry is the smart thing to do, which is why you want to put an opponent into a position where they simply have no choice but to deploy infantry as they need all they got. It will always happen if you are the one assaulting their property, should work for both 1st world armies and for insurgent hideouts. The less equipment they have to combat armor, the worse they will be when those armored troopers are storming their barracks.

Incidentally this is why Space Marines are specifically meant to be dropped from orbit directly on top of the enemy. You want to throw your armored heavy infantry past the enemy armor and straight into the thick of the enemy light infantry, support personnel, base POGs and their command centers. Friendly armor can follow up and extract those marines once they have broken through a disorganized army that just had its head cut off.

Probably shit in an actual warzone, better off for hostage rescue and sieges

>>34185454
So what you're saying is that a round designed for anti tank use will be useless against an armoured target.
Fuck off.

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>>34185610
An RPG7 would be terrible against an exosuit because you're trying to hit a small, moving target with an unwieldy, inaccurate single shot weapon that needs a direct hit to pen the armor, all while exposing your upper torso at minimum, since they can't be fired from a prone position.

RPG7s used to be effective against vehicles because as cumbersome and inaccurate as RPGs are, it's not that hard to hit something as large as a tank turret or APC side armor.
Trying to hit a person with a semi-automatic weapon while they're moving and you're trying fire is already very difficult, trying to score a direct hit on them with an RPG would essentially be impossible to pull off even if you weren't getting shot at.

>>34185594
So what you're saying is that in the future we will definitely see Russian exosuit paratroopers dropping into American cities to wipe out industry and command?

>>34185658
What I'm saying is that you need dem space battleships to truly control the world. No one can do shit to you if ballistic nuclear missiles are easily shot down, MAD has ended and conventional warfare was a go-go again.

After that whoever controls space can drop as many powered armored paratroopers from orbit as they like. Or unpowered troopers, if they prefer jumping into hell with just their rifles and loads of macho.

>>34184434
But those papers and shiny coins buy the man-hours needed to make and maintain those armor.

>>34184404
>fucking chromosome hoarder
I must remember that one

>>34184177
Cleaning kits and proper ammunition for the M16 in vietnam was just paper too, a bureaucrat disagreed.

>>34185396
Explain how increased mobility and protection with more powerful weapons systems is a "demonstratably bad idea."

The british command prior to ww2 had decided issuance of submachineguns to regular infantry was "a demonstratably bad idea" until german platoons with MP38's and MP40's began ripping thier bolt-gun toting troops to ribbons with them.

You cant just structure an entire arguement around an official claim with big words, you need to present an arguement. Just because "demonstratably bad" sounds fancy and intellectual doesnt mean shit unless you can DEMONSTRATE that its a bad idea, which you have not done.

You arent any better than the idiotic contrarians who spout "MEME GUN! MEME GUN!" at anything popular they dont like.

>>34185454
Can confirm. Ive been shot at multiple times by RPGS whilst stationary in an MRAP. The hit ratio at 200 meters for one on a stationary target the size of an armoured vehicle is about 50% and it drops significantly when the target is moving.

Ditto for just about ANY unguided tube launched weapon. Theyre just inaccurate as fuck at all but point blabk ranges (modern combat 200meters is practically right on top of you)

>hurr dey gots uh rpg, it can penetrate, so not worth building it at all

Isnt an arguement anyways. Just because it CAN doesnt mean increased protection AND mobility is suddenly a bad thing. Combat isnt rock paper scissors, just because an IED beats a plate carrier doesnt mean you suddenly stop issuing them. Just because a 7.62×54 can penetrate a helmet doesnt mean suddenly nobody is wearing them.

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>>34184038

Fuck power-armour, Titans/Mechs when?

>>34185849
Never because its stupid.

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>>34185088
>You'd have to build new means of transporting exoskeleton infantry

>>34185810
>german platoons with MP38's and MP40's
No such thing.

>>34187251
>I dont have an arguement so im gonna nitpick at semantics instead

The main claim was that it was a "demonstratably bad idea." So. Demonstrate that its bad, or point me to a concrete source that has done so.

>>34185737
Uh huh spend the money to get the thing that will win the war because what good does paper and shiny coins do if you are outgunned
>>34185760
No shit capn should have put that oh so powerful resource of money to good use, do I sound like I'm adovocating the position that paper is more important than combat efficiency? no! I'm arguing the excact opposite!

>>34187356
The main thing Germans had one MP in the infantry squad. No TOEs of platoons armed mainly with MPs existed.

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>>34184217
>>34184267

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>>34184404
>chromosome hoarder

7/10 medium jej

>>34184783
Why do newfags pretend that bong hate isn't natural?
You know 4chan traffic doesn't increase too much during the summer.

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>>34188740
We can fuck it up a little more.
The badly painted yellow trim is gold.

>>34189089
An Inquisition symbol should fit neatly between those electronic things on the breastplate as well.

>>34185397
so instead of doing research into lightweight gear and materials we should spend countless billions on power armor which needs a lot of energy and limits range of a soldier? youre fucking retarded

>>34185103
wtf do you have to put your boots on before you put your pants on?!

>>34184609
Mortar man who carries tube, baseplate and more ammo than a squad.

>>34184038
Until they get one that can operate at full power for at least a day, not a whole lot.

What good is a soldier that HAS to report back every 24 hours? I know most of them do, but it's not like they run out of batteries and become completely worthless if they, say, get stuck or stranded, a common enough scenario in a combat situation.

Also, logistics would be a nightmare, imagine shipping hundreds of pounds of spare parts not simply for every vehicle, but for every *soldier*.
On top of that, food/water/etc for the human part.

Just use drones and robo tanks

>>34189647
*facepalm*

Or you just pull your pant legs up before you put your boots on and push them back down after...

>>34189741
a decent laser sintering 3D printer. Logistics solved.
>Take old broken part
>Apply to grinder
>Use metal dust in printer
>New part made from old part

>>34189712
Or just stick it in a vehicle. Now it can travel quicker and further.

>>34185186
>Not having 3-1 odds
You are destined for failure.

>>34184177
you are dumber than shit.
that "paper" represents real labor and real materials

Let's be real here. There are potential applications to this wether or not it's coste effective. Making it an armor is not one of them.
The future of exoskeletons are gonna be legs and lower back only.

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>>34190098
>The future of exoskeletons are gonna be legs and lower back only.
Why is that?

>>34187450
On the eastern front, entire battation was armed with MP40 vs entire battalion of Soviet armed with PPSh.

>>34190269
Cheaper, lighter, less power, and it's enough to do the only part that matters: carrying more weight and armor.

>>34184038

It won't, at least not by much. The exoskeleton's biggest gain isn't on the battlefield, but inside VA clinics where their use prevents back injuries that cost the government money. Out in the field, militaries will just adopt larger calibers or explosive ammunition (like an AA shell) to punch through the added armor. As a result, infantry will be given more training on how bullet and artillery trajectory works, because their weapons will be capable of killing their targets without a direct hit.

Imagine something like the 25mm China Lake pump-action grenade launcher but crossed with an AA12. Also, man-firable 60mm mortars and significantly larger RPGs. The killing potential of each solider simply increases, and countries that don't adopt power armor get fucked.

>>34185595

Probably this

In the context of police actions such as drug raids, hostage rescue, arresting high value gang members, etc it seems like a much more viable idea.

Short operating time, high overhead costs, possibly exhausting the user or being uncomfortable to use, difficulties with navigating terrain, presenting an extremely valuable target for crew served weapons or anti-armor teams and all the other issues with being used in war are much more manageable. Being substantially resistant to small-arms fire and able to apprehend armed suspects without serious risk to the operator would make them an invaluable resource to police.

I wouldn't consider criminals resorting to explosives as a counter-measure any more likely than it is today. For all intents and purposes a trained entry team is as unstoppable now as if they were bulletproof head to toe. Theoretically you could "beat" a modern SWAT team by just blowing up your house with them inside but how often does that happen? Exo-suits would just make an already successful system taken even fewer casualties than they do today.

>>34184058
Those who dont move forward get left behind....

>>34190269
main purpose is to haul fuck huge backpacks.

The only reason people want to talk about power armor is because of this light infantry fetish by the US

It would be more practical to add small electric tracked vehicles to every squad

>>34190435
>entire battation was armed with MP40
Nope. No such thing ever existed except in the minds of scared soviet peasants.

>entire battalion of Soviet armed with PPSh.
Nope. It was companies not battalions. Created according to the special order of the Stalin after scared soviet peasants cries reached his ears.

>>34189836
The only thing it represents is the "federal" reserve saying "Print more."

>>34189749
Still makes no sense.
in the picture the part that wraps around the leg is directly against the skin, underneath the pant-legs.
but that attachment brace is also connected to the boot at the bottom.
how the hell do you put your boots on, then wrap that shit around your leg, then put on your pants afterwards?
somebody needs to think about these things a little better during the design process

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>>34191125
>The only reason people want to talk about power armor is because of this light infantry fetish by the US
no. it mostly because of Fallout3

>>34184761
>all of your men walking around making a very loud whining noise
Yeah on top of the loud ass power plant on their backs!

>>34184664
>Allow for helmets with integrated HUD and optics without breaking the user's neck.
You can do this with a raspberry pi.

>>34184297
>he doesn't want to be able to shoulder a ma deuce.
What are you? Some kind of pussy?

>>34191323
fo3 is terrible and had little to do with popularising the idea of power armour. Your image is from new vegas anyway, kys your self.

>>34184038
>how will better armor effect war
Better bullets
>how will better bullets effect warfare
Better armor

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>>34184215

>>34191948
>kill yourself yourself

>>34191323
It only made it more popular. Remember when Alien 2 was the shit, or 40k/Starship Trooper/Deus Ex/etc? Also F1 and F2 were pretty well remembered by people.

>>34185849
Isn't a mech suit just a really large set of power armor/exo-skeleton?

>>34184058
A comprise between destroyed knees and being able to enter a building.

>>34189468
Why limit yourself to one? Also what's your punctuation, are you a phone poster or a decade below your allowed posting age?

>>34184038
>tfw your supersoldiers run out of batteries.

>suit dies for some reason
>cant fucking walk anymore

the military hates things that run on batteries, theres no way we will ever adopt shit like this.

>>34192336
>dumbass soldiers throw out half charged batteries because ALWAYS KEEP YOUR DEVICES CHARGED SOLDIER, YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU'LL NEED THEM
>the entire US army has to literally fly in batteries

>The shortage, caused by supplies depleted by many years of insufficient funding, first surfaced when Central Command’s maintenance branch began packing supplies for an anticipated war with Iraq. Batteries as other supplies, were sent by ship on a two week voyage. More vital cargo, such as fuel, was sent by Air Force cargo planes.

>When combat operations started earlier than planned, batteries were rushed to the theater, loaded onto Air Force cargo planes. Eventually, 95 percent of the BA 5590s were flown into Kuwait. Delivering batteries to forward units, over the long supply lines, was another challenge. In fact, until U.S. forces secured forward airfields near Baghdad, Kirkuk and Umm Qasr, there were no safe means of deliveries to forward troops. Forces landed in Northern Iraq and East of Baghdad received their supplies directly from Germany.

it's going to be great when some dumbass successfully gets a JP-9 microturbine past congress, and every 6th soldier becomes the logistical equivalent of an M1 Abrams


>america declares war on china
>2 weeks in they declare war on saudi arabia just to get enough oil to power their exosuits

>>34184058
Realistically the most efficient direction for the future of infantry combat is autonomous or unmanned combat droids. Human presence on the battlefield will be minimized, but you can bet your ass they will be augmented with exos just to keep up with the droids.

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>>34192336
You know, you could just adapt a quick drop method like they have for the IOTV. Or pop off the servos and use the "power armor" as normal armor.

Power armor doesn't have to be clunky, you can make it modular.

>>34192270
One is a suit, another is a vehicle.

Why is this such an incredibly difficult concept to grasp for some people? It's mind boggling.

>>34192713
>autonomous killer robots
There is a reason why there is no such thing as an autonomous killer robot right now and every drone still has an operator.

You really have no idea what's going to happen if dumbasses seriously manage to push a droid army on us, do you?

>>34184404
>Chromsome Horder
Holy fuck hahaha 10/10

>>34191323
but power armor started in the first fallout....

>>34184553
no, now kill yourself

>>34191323
>implying US Army R&D hasn't been jerking off to Heinlein's works for more than half a century

>>34192814
>There is a reason why there is no such thing as an autonomous killer robot right now
>whats is AIM-120, Harpoon, Breamstone missiles
>what is Sensor Fuzed Weapon

>>34193144
Heinlein was a smart guy. A lot of the problems of the current world are caused by letting people with no skin in the game (or personal interest in getting gibs) cast their votes for all sorts of nonsense.

>>34184783
you're right, uk doesnt have a muslim problem. It must be made up by summerfags.

>>34184038
Has anyone considered that the whole strength-enhancing gig might be more useful for riot cops than actual soldiers? It'd give their beatsticks a lot more power to crack delinquent skulls.

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>>34192790
Because a vehicle and a suit aren't mutually exclusive.

>>34193234
Yes, yes they are? A vehicle is specifically something you ride or SIT in. You can ride on top of a MI trooper as if he was a vehicle (or a horse...), but he still needs to WEAR the armor and that makes it not a vehicle to him. It doesn't matter how big it gets so as long as it is still small enough for it to need to fit around the wearer's body.

A Landmate is clearly a vehicle because even with the (very dangerous and poorly designed) waldo arms sticking out of the abdomen where the pilot is situated and his legs partially into the thighs, the thing is far too big for any human to wear and thus is no longer a suit of armor.

A walker vehicle (aka mech) CAN be smaller than a human like a motorcycle is so as long as he has some open air seat to plonk himself onto.

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>>34193203
No, we just have loud noises for those purposes.

I'd probably blast dubstep or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1bO0H1D2v8 until the protestors go away.

Come to think of it, I'd post shit like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ5LpwO-An4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4jwzan3AyA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0DU4DoPP4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kffacxfA7G4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S8ynIDYyG4

>>34193203
>Has anyone considered that the whole strength-enhancing gig might be more useful for riot cops than actual soldiers?
Indeed it cab useful and best non lethal weapon. Image power exoskeleton that gives same advantage in power as grown man has over 3 years old kid. There is no problem dealing with 3 yo kid safely, just grab and carry him. Imagine future police will deal same with people resisting cops.

>>34191194
This, american money is worthless actually, the only reason it's relevant is because all oil trades are conducted in dollars.

>It's been 5 years since the development of Power Armor
>"Unstopable soldiers" "Steel Vanguard" "The way of the future"
>I step in, my balls are squished into the "one size fits all" model T-64
>As it closes behind me I get an error message "A-ZHR221"
>Have to consult the 100 page manual as to what the fuck is wrong with it
>Turns out I put the left arm on before the right
>Try again, properly this time
>Snug and snapped in, the motors whir to life
>I can already feel the sweat pooling on my back from the 120 degree power core on my back module
>My "frosty" suit is doing nothing to keep me cool in this machine
>I still haven't even left the moderately cool hangar yet
>I go through a systems check with the T-53 operator on call
>He won't stop scratching his ass with a spare power glove
>Gives me the thumbs up, microphone had shorted out a week after this suits delivery
>Begin walking down to ground level
>Fucking leg unit was locked, I fall down into motor T's car lift space, on my back and trapped in my suit
>Operator wasn't up to date on the manual
>Has to inform command about the situation
>Takes them three hours to get to me
>Overhear it'll take a crane to get me out

>>34184038
I want to find the call of duty kids who constantly post about power armor and power fuck their skulls.

>>34193358
None of the CODs have power armors though. One has powered exoframes, and one has you play a cyborg though.

>>34193384
Someone here said they had power shields or something in the last COD.

Even I played COD until Black ops, played Nazi zombies. You know what I mean, thinking it's an actual depiction of warfare.

>>34193384
see
>>34185041

Although technically the player never gets to use them. In multiplayer you can equip the same armor pieces but its cosmetic only. Some of the armor sets do look pretty protective even though they still have to keep within certain strict limits to not make the player character too huge compared to his hitbox.

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>>34193301
Definition of suit (one of them at least)
>a complete set of pieces of armor for covering the whole body

Definition of vehicle
>a thing used for transporting people or goods

>>34193458
CoD had a collapsible ballistic shield in an Exosuit frame.
>>34193384
ALSO, you forgot that CoD did indeed have power armor, more 40k style though. Remember the hover bike mission? The guards were wearing it, and I do believe you start off wearing it in one of the final missions.

>>34193458
Wouldn't know, I haven't played Infinite Warfare. Newest one in my library is BLOPS 3.

>>34184215
What's next is nano-actuated linear motors that function in much the same way as the motor proteins in our muscle fibers do:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_protein#Cytoskeletal_motor_proteins

>>34184038
It won't.
/thread

>>34193488
Right, I forgot about the big ass fuck you suits you get to wear in the final two missions.

>>34184038
Soldiers will be expected to carry even heavier loads resulting in them still destroying their knees.

>>34193488
Goliaths are on the edge of becoming vehicles due to their huge size, though you still do put your real limbs partway into the mechanical ones. At least that's what I remember.

>>34193521
I remember a soldier on here making a joke about that. Something along the lines of,

>DARPA makes working combat exoskeleton that lets soldier carry 300 pounds like it's nothing
>DOD increases our standard loadout to 350 pounds worth of gear
>knees still screaming at end of patrol

>>34192485
why don't they just carry some 2 stroke engines around with them to recharge their batteries

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>>34191195
ill explain this slow

>put on pants
>put on boot
>pull pant leg up to knee exposing socks and skin
>attach apparatus around boot and shin.
>pull pant leg down.

>>34185290
Why are Europeans the Vegans of the world.

You're just not satisfied unless someone knows you're from the shittiest area of the planet.

>>34184516
What about power?

>>34184228
>>34184297
>surrounded by 200bar pressured hydraulic lines
Wow, there's a lot of pressure! Except liquids don't compress very well so as soon as a line ruptures the liquid sputters out and loses it's spooky scaryness.

>also what is design and how does it work

>>34184434
>>34184177
>>34184386
>its just paber lol!
FACE THIS FACT: Money is not going to go away, it will not disappear because you don't want to believe in it anymore.

>the only things needed are the materials
Literally paid for with money, you are bartering electronic numbers for the goods and services of those materials. This is an economy, holy FUCK what are they teaching you little retards in school these days?

>>34184440
>a few hundred thousand
Per unit. You're looking at a few million per squad, holy shit where the fuck are you going to get that money?

>make them near invincible to conventional small arms
Except anything over .30 caliber will still be able to punch through. This power armor you're making is still going to be a suit, it's not a mech, and if it is a mech it's not going to exist period.

Make a different case, because power armor for literally everyone is not going to fly.

>>34184485
>5 kilowatt microtubine
Shut the fuck up right now, you are literally making shit up.

Microfusion reactors will happen before we start strapping tanks of fucking JP9 to retarded marine grunts who can barely be trusted not to stick their dick in a Mk19 barrel.

Plus lmao volatile fuel to power your infantry are you fucking high? Make a case for a backpack fission reactor, at least you can box that up in a sealed unit and have it plug and play for field servicing. That might work. Maybe. Going to be very fucking expensive though, so once again we run into another problem of this dumb idea.

>>34184608
Infantry are expendable assets, this is pretty much a fact of warfare. At some point, and it happens pretty quickly, it becomes too expensive to save every dumb dickhead from rural Iowa.

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>>34192713
>autonomous or unmanned combat droids

That's the worst. Drones are only good against illiterate desert savages. Any country with an IT department can hack them. Just ask Iran.

>>34185394
>Ironically, rpg7s and grenades would be some of the least effective weapons against exosuits
>>34185454
>HEAT rounds aren't supposed to be used against humans and the plasma jet will do fuck all against a person unless it's a direct hit.
Different anon here. Legit question but are you stupid? I'm not even being a dick right now, I just want to know if you're a retard.

This is a SUIT. You WEAR it. If you're hit with an RPG you will not survive, even a fragmentation warhead will cleave out a bunch of important stuff and it will be a mobility kill or mission kill.
>but they're not supposed to use the RPG against mere men!
Go cry to some Dutch faggot in the Hague about it.

>Also, the whole point of exosuits is that they can move quickly like a human can.
This will never happen if you expect to put armor on him too. You're going to have limited mobility (PSST: there's a man inside, he can only bend in certain ways!) especially in the legs, go tape a bunch of books to your legs and do a 5k and tell me how that goes. That's what power armor will be like until you can physically detach your legs from your hips.

>>34189779
>>a decent laser sintering 3D printer
>laser sintering
>for a structural component expected to endure shear stress
You're an idiot. Shut up.

>>34192336
Exactly. It's nice to see some sanity in this thread, this is pretty much the beginning and end of the discussion. Doctrine. Money, practicality, what the fuck ever, it's all second-fiddle to doctrine.

Changing doctrine is hard, especially when it's over something that's given the military night terrors for a century.

>>34192485
>JP-9 microturbine
>there is a guy in this thread advocating exactly this
Finally we have Gun Kid's disciple. Gone is the manual Tactical Wheelbarrow, it is now upgraded with a JP-9 microturbine.

>>34193337
This is why nobody should be advocating for this shit because it'll play out exactly like this. It's obvious who has never served in this thread.

>>34195191
Mate, the TALOS suit already exists and has already gone through phases of testing. The various designs have a combination of turbines and batteries, one for normal operation and one for being sneaky.

It's not a case of whether you feel like we will get power armor or not because we already have it. Also technically we have had a bunch of low-key mechs so far, such as the John Deere forestry walker and that Worst Korean AMP-ripoff that was around recently. Horrible walking performance but at least they're working as baby steps.

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>>34184038
throw emp grenade

run in and spike the fucker

>>34195313
>TALOS suit
I had to google that to see which one that was (there have been several) and I opened the wikipedia page. Before even scrolling I see "cancellation." Right there in the index. 10/10

Even if it was 100% for true going to be adopted totally no joke this is serious, at ANY point they could just declare it's verboten and boot it out. They did it with the XM25, a system that actually did stuff and had immediate benefit, and they can do it with power armor.

Even then if it was adopted it's still for special operations, meaning it isn't the "everyone's a spess marine :DDDD" scenario that every dumb son of a bitch in this thread is waving around as a vision of the future. That isn't going to happen. Ever.

>Horrible walking performance
Again, if you want to have a lot of power or a lot of armor you're going to have to accept that this is going to be the end result. You're not going to have a nimble badass doing cool kickflips, he's going to waddle around in his suit of armor like an autistic penguin praying a tank isn't around the corner.

Turbines are a stupid man-portable power source by the way. Pray microfusion takes off because that's the only way you're going to get this to be a reality in infantry squads. (even then at most one or two guys probably reducing the squad by four to save on costs)

>>34184058
>it adds more cost

I'm sure there are some welfare programs we can cut to balance that out like medicare and social security

>>34195350
>had to google TALOS
It's the sole fucking impetus for the upswing in discussions about this technology in the first place. Hell one of the prototypes for the armor pieces is in the OP image.

>Before even scrolling
>"In early 2017, the TALOS project was cancelled and shelved by its backers. The project was deemed too costly, the results such as the lower body exoskeleton did not improve efficiency, but other technologies developed alongside the exoskeleton could be used by the military in the future. [14] NOTE: In said source there is no mention of actual cancellation of the TALOS project.actual cancellation of the TALOS project."
[14] = ( http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2017/5/22/iron-man-suit-on-track-but-hurdles-remain )

>"NOTE: In said source there is no mention of actual cancellation of the TALOS project."

>"NOTE: IN SAID SOURCE THERE IS NO MENTION OF ACTUAL CANCELLATION OF THE TALOS PROJECT"

You can also try using Ctrl+F on the page. This is why we do not trust the advice of grunts beyond anything more complex than "this stock needs to be thicker, breaks too much". The wikipedia page was likely edited by someone equally as butthurt about powered armor as you are.

The most realistic scenario is an ODST type armor(Lightweight ceramic composites iirc) with a helmet does fend for comms, biostatus, and a full HUD.

This is for SOF units, designed to be lightweight and cooperating to the operator for high intensity objective tasks.

Conventional military would be something like Elysium, with droids doing the heavy work, while humans serve as "advisors" and working alongside the bots.

>>34195313
Why the devil would you use a turbine, they are godawful for fuel efficiency

>>34195326
>throw emp grenade

yeah first lets actually figure out how to create an EMP without an explosion to back it up, then make it small enough to fit in a grenade.

>>34193556
Soooo much this.
>heavy as fuck IMTVs replaces by still heavy but not as much plate carriers.
>now armor plus ammo and water is 70 pounds instead of 85
>staff sgt "ohh good! That means you can all carry 15 more pounds of batteries and water!"
>THEN WHY THE FLYING FUCK DID WE SPEND HALF A BILLION DEVELOPING LIGHTER SHIT!

Read the book "the soldiers load and the mobility of societey" written after korea by a full bird COL who served through ww2 as he was going into vietnam.

Been going on since ww1. Government spends ludicrous amounts of money developing lighter gear only to have salty staff NCOs sabotage the entire purpose of the project by forcing men to just carry more stuff they dont need.

He spoke of very extensivley lightening his mens loads and putting great thought and planning into their kit only to find out some gunny forced everyone to carry around fire axes "in case they had to open a locked door."

>>34193312
Sounds like something that would give antifa a boner. I bet as soon as they saw em theyd just be drooling in anticipation of soaking them in burning gasoline.

>>34195547
Problem with this line of concern is that the exo has a physical maximum load that they cannot get over. The human may not be adding much to the actual carrying capacity if the frame was actually designed properly and is taking near 100% of the load.

If the eggheads tell the NCOs that 300 pounds is the limit, then NCOs load 350 and the exo stops being able to move, they will quit trying to put 350 on real quick. But 300 is already very, very generous so it'd be hard for them to go that high even if they want to.

Armor and weapons and supplies and fireaxe; what else can you actually think of to bring along? If someone asks you to carry rucksack full of teddy bears into combat for shits and giggles it will be the volume of the objects being carried that will cause problems, not the weight.

>>34195586
If you soak anyone any officer in a burning liquid, you sign your death warrant. They only do those things to targets that can't or aren't allowed to fight back.

>>34184038
will make the last crusade pretty fucking sick to be part of/spectate

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>>34184058
t. Raider fag who can't get power armor

>>34191163
Denying history now, are we?

>>34193879
the pants shown in that pic are super tight around the leg.
no fucking way you are going to pull those up and push them back down again over all that shit

>>34190435
>Entire battalion was arm with MP40
You must be 18 or older to post here. Is the mind of like every 12 year old that most soldiers had SMGs? You're playing too much CoD5, fuck off or learn your history, you filthy degenerate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rKRt5zVZgw

>>34195634
People already soak cops in burning gasoline. Mob mentality creates a high level of de-individiation and so does the fact the cops are wearing riot gear. Lets the crowd feel like the cops aint people and it spreads the personal feeling of responsibility amongst the group.

Plus, if you think deploying riot police,and un-gunned MRAPS makes people scream "TANKS AND FASCISTS!!!" just TRY deploying power armor against civilian rioters.

First guy to do it will be comitting carwer suicide, and there would be a very good legal arguement that it violates posse comitatus. Hell, just the MRAPS, M4's, and national guard is pushing the line on whats actually legal in the US.

>>34184500
Infantry are most definitely worth plently of cash retard. Each E-4 is worth a bear minimum of 100000 dollars for 4 years of duty just to pay them. Add on costs of training, equipment, ammo, food, transportation, etc it is easily muliple hundreds of thousands for just your average infantry man. The price tag of a fucking recon man in the Marines is already just over a million the momment they finish training.

This isn't the 1800s anymore where you can just hand them rifles a uniform and ammo and drill them for a month and call it an army. Modern infantry are nothing to be fucked around with.

>>34196200
>However, later experience with Soviet tactics, such as the Battle of Stalingrad where entire Russian units armed with submachine guns outgunned their German counterparts in short range urban combat, caused a shift in tactics, and by the end of the war the MP 40 and its derivatives were being issued to entire assault platoons on a limited basis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_40#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPriestleyCavatore2014105.E2.80.93108-16

Learn history first before you post here.

>>34184791
You don't think forcing every man in an urban enviroment to have to use an RPG to try and kill their enemies would be an advantage? You realise half the situations in urban combat would result in Akmed killing himself with back blast in a confined space right?

Also Genades are both not as cheap as you imply and not a solution that works for every situation. The SWAT usage case works best, most hostage takers aren't gonna have a fucking RPG and grenades aren't an option in that situation.

Fuck dude you are trying to say some really retarded shit when you can just say "Power armor would be an incredibly effective force multiplier for specific units and use cases but would be a waste as a general issue body armor for every combat arms service member.".

Power armor is not 100% a bad idea but that doesn't mean it's a good idea for general issue.

Also fuck off, RPG-7 HEAT rounds are like 5-7 times the effective penetration of a WW2 era weapon with a massive amount more range. A PIAT would have a hard time even killing an up armored Humvee.

>>34184038
Theve been saying the sane shit for years.

>>34196416
you forgot about IEDs dingus, IEDs are cheap and work great and don't need either someone to activate it or a radio transmition because you can just tap it to a pressure plate, also enjoy being crushed from inside out because of the explosion's blast

>>34196287
This. Things I was required to know and ended up performing in Afghan over 2 deployments as an E-4 0352 in the Marines.
>Rocket science and physics in relation to armor penetration
>squad tactics and leadership
>how to service, operate, and tactically exploit a dozen weapons systems in addition to the JAV and TOW (cross trained on everything from 60mm and 81mm mortars to assorted machineguns as well as enemy weapons we might encounter
>coms, use, maintenance, how to call for air or arty
>counter terror tactics
>a foreign language (pashto)
>TCCC and live tissue training (could administer blood volumizers, ketamine or morphine, tacheotomy and crikeotomy, blood transfusions hemostatic agents etc etc)
>Tactical site exploitation (whats intel worthy, whats not, how to handle it properly, find out what it means and make decisions for my squad as to how to use it or make alterations to our course of action based on findings)
>blast site assessments and battle damage asessments
>much, much more

We used all manner of technical systems and as a squad leader I was expected to know thoroughly the jobs of those under me, how to employ them, and how to make clear decisions in combat without oversight from command. I was just an E4. Yeah we had typical "dumb guy with a gun" types but the reality is even grunt work infantry life is an increasingly technical and cognitive challenge.

The days of "heres a gun, heres how to march, now go fight" are well past.

>>34184372
>he doesn't think a jet of hydraulic fluid can be harmful
You're an order of magnitude off, hydraulics are at least 4000 psi. Standard skin breaks when hit with 667 psi oil jets.

The battery can have a QD system in case of thermal runaway.

>>34196463
We already deal with IEDs regardless. Would be better to have more protection against them in an urban enviroment. Also I'm not one of the retards arguing for general issue. I'm saying these would infact be really useful in limited usage. SWAT, urban combat, and some special forces would find useage for these.

Also if the usage of this shit means that the only things you will face in urban combat that could seriously fuck you up are preplanned traps and rpgs then that is still a win. It doesn't have to be literally invincible to still be useful.

>>34196308
>to entire assault platoons on a limited basis
>assault platoons
>limited basis
You BTFO yourself, I was calling Anon out because he kept insisting that 'Battalions' had soldiers equipped with MP40s only.

Keep in mind that the total numbers of MP40s was 1.1 Million compared to the 13 Million Wehrmacht who served the regime. Bringing up "muh stalingrad" doesn't change that fact that most soldiers were still using K98ks, even STG44s users were usually seen defending tank columns as they could still have firepower even if the MG gunner in the squad was taken out, keeping in mind that less than half a million was produced. The only real reason why they implemented a few sections for Assault purposes was for URBAN combat and rarely seen in the open field, it was Rivaled by the Soviet's Shock teams that were usually 30 men with SMGs and 1 AT unit which again, were usually used only in Urban combat and sparingly in open combat.

If anyone should learn history, it should be you faggot. Instead of copy pasting section from Wikipedia how about you read the whole article first, ingrate.

>>34191948
>kys your self
Fuck off you crusty ass, ESL, third worlder.

>>34184038
Best used by super ultra SWAT teams for maximum badassery. It's not viable to field armies of power armored soldiers yet, but it could most def be useful in CQC by superbois

>>34196512
>Also I'm not one of the retards arguing for general issue. I'm saying these would infact be really useful in limited usage.
oh, my bad
but yeah you're right about limited usage, those would be proven usefull

>>34196517
So instead of the whole battlation, we have a whole platoon of MP40-wielding germans.

Yeah, I'm so back the fuck out, m8.

>The only real reason why they implemented a few sections for Assault purposes was for URBAN combat and rarely seen in the open field, it was Rivaled by the Soviet's Shock teams that were usually 30 men with SMGs and 1 AT unit which again, were usually used only in Urban combat and sparingly in open combat.
Yeah, because open combat is the majority of Stalingrad, fuck off.

Protip: open combat is not the standard of WW2.

>tfw we'll live to see the sword revived

>>34196564
And the axe and the mace.

Cuz what better way to save ammo than to charge and kill hadjis with an axe?

>>34196510
You guys are missing the main issue with hydraulics.

Its all a system of fluid. A hole in one spot = a pressure drop in the entire system. The only solution is that each movement be its own system, which is
A) very complex
B) very expensive
C) high maintenance

It works for jets because dozens of highly trained technicians expends hundreds of man hours swarming over the thing from almost as soon as it lands to right before it takes off.

Do you REALLY wanna be handing something like that to infantry? Theres an old saying.

"If you lock an infantryman and 2 anvils into an empty room for an hour when you comeback he will have broke 1 and lost the other."

So you either have a very simple system thats prone to total failure from damage to one part, or a very very highly complex system thats garunteed not to be soldier proof and is highly maintenance expensive.

Servos are easy because theyre cheap and modular. If one fails you can essentially plug and play to fix it. No need for highly trained technicians and high maintenance. Just discard the ruined servo and install a new one. A motor-T level mechanic could do it, with some basic cross training a grunt could too.

THATS why electric servo-motors were chosen over hydraulics. Well that, and because hydraulics provide high torque and force but only at low velocity. Hydraulics arent just high maintenance, theyre also slow.

Pnuematics are weaker but quick but they also carry the same maintenance and complexity issues hydralics do.

>>34196579
Are you saying this to infantries who carries fucking rifles all the times?

Why not just issue sword and axe if you want shit to be simple?

>>34196508
When were you in? I was an 0311 that joined in 07 and they pretty much discontinued the 52 MOS by then.

>>34196563
Okay, now what are you trying to prove here? Trying to lessen the blow by going "Oh yeah I really don't care haha lol", it doesn't change the validity of my point.

I was saying that thing that thinking the Wehrmacht had entire Battalions of soldiers with MP40s was fucking stupid, Platoons? Yes definitely, I never tried to hide or deny that fact.

>Yeah, because open combat is the majority of Stalingrad, fuck off.
I'm not sure what You're trying to point out here, are you saying that Stalingrad was a beautiful open plain filled with grass and Petunias? Oh and before you go "Durr Stalingrad buildings were destroyed anyways, it was pretty much open combat", while it is true that a good Majority was rubble, soldiers OCCUPIED and FOUGHT inside the fucking buildings that remained, the only reason why there was so much rubble is because of the German bombing which stopped after the Soviets closed in to the Germans by less that 30 Meters, which would caused friendly fire to the Germans, hence there were still a shit lot of buildings that remained.

>Open Combat is not the standard of WW2
>What was Operation Barbarossa
>What was Sevastapool
>What was Kursk
>What was the Rzhev Meat Grinder
>What was the Liberation of Ukraine
>What was Operation Bagration

You know, instead of just being a fucking cock gurgler and going "oh no that's not what happened this is teehee XD", how about you actually try to attack the information that I've provided you instead of being a Pseudo-intellectual Highschooler.

>>34184038
>How will it effect warfare?
you can carry more ammo and more body armor.
but you need a way to recharge your armor every 2-3 hours.
so i guess it will be mechanized infantry only.

>>34196599
'12 to '17 (got out a few months ago). They tried rolling the JAV and TOW into the 0351 MOS for a few years but it didnt work. 0351's already got their hands full with breaching and demo, trying to pile on 2 more highly complex and technical weapons systems into their duties was just too much.

You either had an assaultman who couldnt use ATGMs for shit, or a missileman who couldnt breech or demo for shit. So they figured it made more sense to have just 52's and just 51's.

Since theres no armor threat 52's maintain a readiness in TOW and JAV systems but cross train into machineguns and mortars once they get to their unit.

Also they stopped splitting weapons companies up amongst the rifle companies on deployments. Now rifle companies get a machinegun section and a few 51's but weapons company deploys as a mobile heavy assault company to provide larger heavy support for the line companies instead.

Having 200 machinegunners, missilemen, mortarmen and mortarmen as mounted or helo QRF packs a huge base of fire for line companies. More effective than just a few heavy weapons guys scattered across a battalion.

>>34196611
>Okay, now what are you trying to prove here? Trying to lessen the blow by going "Oh yeah I really don't care haha lol", it doesn't change the validity of my point.
There are entire platoons of soldiers using solely SMG.
>I'm not sure what You're trying to point out here, are you saying that Stalingrad was a beautiful open plain filled with grass and Petunias?
It's sarcasm, idiot, the point is Stalingrad and much of WW2 combat were the precursors of modern warfare, where open combat is a rarity and urban combat takes the majority.
>Open Combat is not the standard of WW2
It is not, if open combat has been the standard, nobody would have bothered creating the assault rifle, nor would the Soviet figured out massive firepower is what win.
>You know, instead of just being a fucking cock gurgler and going "oh no that's not what happened this is teehee XD", how about you actually try to attack the information that I've provided you instead of being a Pseudo-intellectual Highschooler.
Two words: Learn history.

>>34196758
>There are entire platoons of soldiers using solely SMG.
If you read my post, I didn't deny that fact and acknowledged it posts ago, I was berating the other anon for referring it as "Battalions".

>The point is Stalingrad and much of WW2 combat were the precursors of modern warfare
That's true, but what I was pointing at before in my previous posts is that those teams were used sparingly, hence they only had few sections of Platoons made up entirely of Soldiers equipped all with SMGs.

>Open Combat is not the standard of WW2
Refer to my previous post, while Urban combat did have a vital role in WW2 and led to the developments of Modern combat, it doesn't change the fact that the Majority of the War and might I add the turning points were fought in open ground, especially in the Eastern front.

>Two words: Learn history.
Oh but yes I did, how about You actually fight off the information that I was debating with you before instead of derailing the topic and correcting me of "historical errors" that I haven't even mentioned before.

The original point I was making before was berating the other Anon that the Germans didn't have entire Battalions with MP40s, You """corrected""" me by giving me a Wikipedia section that stated it had Platoons instead, I didn't refute or deny that fact, and yet You go on and add points in your previous post of information that I haven't denied.

Real talk: You should tone your ego down a bit and learn actual History, not some AltHis bullshit you regurgitate from leddit.

>>34185258
Actually hydraulics can be made to go quite fast. It depends on the power, flow rate and cylinder design.
larger openings on the cylinder allow for higher speed at the cost of reduced loading. Loading can be increased with more power, but that comes at the cost of increased weight.
Then the overall design can take advantage of the speed/loading tradeoff by incorporating it into a mechanical advantage. A slow cylinder with high loading attached next to the base pivot of a mechanical arm can make high speed movements.
The biggest issue is actually heat dissipation. High speed and long duration usage of hydraulic fluid leads to heat related changes in viscosity, responsiveness and the obvious danger of burning the user.
>T. Farmfag

>>34196257
>Plus, if you think deploying riot police,and un-gunned MRAPS makes people scream "TANKS AND FASCISTS!!!" just TRY deploying power armor against civilian rioters.
That would only give us here some really hard boners though. Maybe a big enough of a boner to not give s shit if Pussy Comingatus was brutally violated.

>>34196512
What's the term for an "extended limited issue"?

Because most special forces want to be sneaky beaky blend-in-grow-a-beardy. Only the Rangers are a good fit for a loud and proud approach and there are only so many Rangers. The frontline grunts need to have the armor issued to them in sizeable numbers, swapping owners as personnel rotate in and out. The vanguard of any force should have PA infantry while the rest will be fine without.

Manufacturing costs will be lowered if you plan to gear up at least a certain amount of people above a certain threshold so that factories don't tool up for a short run or be tasked with so much that they have to pull in additional factory lines. I am not an economist or an industrialist so I can't tell you how much that is going to be, but obviously a happy medium has to exist somewhere.

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>>34184038

ROOM CLEARING
urban warfare, thats about it

> busts down door, starts shooting everybody
> they shoot back, but the dude is bulletproof head to toe
> even against .308 shit

Next Room, rinse and repeat

>>34196416

40mm grenade would do it
>maybe not a confirmed kill, but the dude might be having back problems for the rest of his life after taking a direct hit

Prob is most of these munitions have a minimum arming distance so if you get closer than that, heck even a direct hit from an RPG is just going to knock him over thats all.

>>34196579

NO POWER ARMOR SYSTEM is gonna fucking use hydraulics. For all the reasons you listed.

> or pneumatics
> and most likely not servo motors either

Musclewire contracts and changes shape when an electric current is run through it. It turns back when the current is withdrawn.

The total number of musclewires activated would be based on the pressure sensors activated under the suit against the operator (anywhere from subtle movement to full response).

This allows for much more precise and agile movements akin to the power armor you see in games like Starcraft 2 and Halo.

They've publicly had this stuff since like 2000, secretly for much longer most like.

>>34195374
>ree they didn't actually cancel it normie!!!!
And I addressed that already, twice, just to firmly settle things.

I see you've ran away from even acknowledging that though.

>>34185553
A friend of mine once noted that a Bobcat with a skilled operator is the closest thing we have today to an industrial exoskeleton.

>>34193182
He also foresaw the importance of ergonomics and simplicity of the manual of arms.

"A suit you just wear".

>>34194835
That's the reason we don't have any yet.

We have prototype exoskeletons running out our ears (look at Japan's R&D alone), but none of them have really been put into full civil or military service because they all run into the power issue.

So, yeah, that's the biggest part of the equation, the one getting a lot of work. The other part is trying to optimize the exoskeleton, make it lighter and easier to use with less (or even no) power (as well as things like making it quieter--too many models are noisy as heck).

>>34195997
A mod that turns FO4 into ME:A?

>>34184516
No it doesn't you fucking retard.
Why would it cost one million USD to have me sitting in a fucking hole in sandland.

>>34192968
yes but FO3 was the first game to gain wide exposure and introduced today's modern gamers to Power Armor

>>34184038
ITT: Things we never see in action.

>Rail Gun
>Walkers
>Power Suit
>5th Generation Russia Figther

>>34197417
Whats funny about /k/ is they are all stockpiling weapons in case the state becomes tyrannical. Converseley they are suddenly statists when its somebody they dont like taking a boot to the face.

Posse comitatus is the reason why you dont have to get your car searched at random military checkpoints when you go to visit grandma but its suddenly "pussy comimgatus" when you wanna see a hippy take a power armor boot to the neck.

Are you deliberatley obtuse or utterly unaware of your cognitive dissonance?

>>34197784
Yeah, its kinda a problem with tech that gets too far ahead. You gotta sit on it cuz if you deploy it too soon you run the risk of wasting the element of suprise and also it becoming captured and reverse-engineered.

The real reason we havent seen a lot of stuff come into use is because these pissant brush wars arent important enough to run the risk of deploying the really spooky level shit.

>>34198970
What matters most is not arbitrary "rights" or "freedoms" that could be abolished by a judge at any point.

What matters is your nation. These hippies and foreigners deserve to get their ass beat to 6 feet under.

>>34195191

>being this autistic
>ever

jfc anon.

Daily reminder that SOCOM is buying 5000 .338NM machineguns (same weight as a M240, ammo weighs twice as much), which can punch through level III multihit with default FMJ.

And of course there's always the good old M995, or the upcoming ADVAP for lighter weapons.

No-one is going to koolaid-man through bullets anytime soon.

The point of an exoskeleton is more gear and less fatigue. The extra armor is nice, but people will not become immune to suppression.

>>34199006
Unself-aware cognitive dissonance it is then. "My feelings trump their rights" and all that. You realise a mirror reflection of idiotic SJWs still makes you an idiot right?

Just cuz you're politics are opposite to them doesnt mean your different from them. Youre just as idiotic if you think "stupid rights and laws" arent the exact reason some 18 year old with a gun isnt stepping on your neck for some made up charge because the local party leader wants the land your house is built on for a golf course and its easier to just accuse you of some bullshit and shoot you than bother with your rights or the legal system.

Rights and laws ARE our nation dipshit.

>>34199079
People with the same politics as me are why I'm not getting necklaced.

If people have sufficiently different feels or are from a sufficiently different tribe, then they're going to storm the farms/flashmob the malls and kill the Boers/hunt the polarbears no matter what the laws say.

Laws and rights don't mean shit. They're just a way of saying we have extra big feelz about that topic.

>>34199049
This. Mobility and firepower are necessities, ballistic protection is a perk. "Without movement fire is wasted, without fire movement is suicide" is drilled into grunts as a mantra.

The concept of power armor is pretty simple
>bigger guns + more ammo = more supression
>it also = less mobility cuz a human can only carry so much without slowing down so much as to negate the advantages of a bigger gun with more ammo
>solution: use tech so he can carry more ammo and a bigger gun without having to slow down (power armor)
>and hey, if we got the mobility and firepower might as well dedicate some time to slapping a few plates of something bullet resistant to it just cuz

The REAL goal of an exoskeleton SHOULD NOT BE invulnerability. It should be mobility and firepower, because mobility and firepower are the best protection you can get. Increased armor is a secondary goal here.

I would be tickled pink if a system was developed that enabled guys to wield 240B medium machineguns like assault rifles and allowed them to carry 3500 to 4000 rounds for it.

If you could even do that it wluld be a major ground combat game changer, even if it offered no extra ballistic protection.

>>34184721
Yes, they'll be especially useful to aircraft crews for loading munitions.
Instead of requiring a team of people to arm an aircraft, two people wearing exosuits can do it.

>>34184500
My intel training made me worth 1 million dollars by the time I was finished with it.
The average infantry dude is probably worth a few hundred thousand.

The shit were expected to be able to perform and know at the basic level isn't the same as a barely literate taxi driver running around in some boots with an M1 like it was back in WW2.

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>>34199155
It doesnt take a huge team to arm a plane because they cant lift stuff. It takes a huge team to arm a plane QUICKLY.

Right now if a plane isnt in a hurry it only really takes like 2 guys 30 minutes to load up a plane. Ive seen em do it.

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>>34184727
actually yes because i paid my fucking r&d team and also paid my army so they could be armed and well fed to kick your ass

>>34199176
an established air base should have something a plane can be parked over. that then arms the plane.

so all the aircrew have to do is make sure it operates properly and keeps it stocked with missiles, bombs, and fuel tanks.

>>34184736
then underage trapped in autistic man child body

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>>34198867
>Fallout 3
>Predating Halo
Sort yourself out.

>>34184038

> no neck protector
> can't even be used to play hockey

>>34199145
>solution: use tech so he can carry more ammo and a bigger gun without having to slow down (power armor)
You completely missed the point somehow in the same sentence with the core of the point in it.

When infantry have more armor they open up more avenues of approach and have greater flexibility in when they want to move. If the effect of getting shot is reduced to acceptable levels, one can make the case to wade through enemy fire to move to a better offensive position. Without armor, safe movement is only possible when enemy fire has been reduced through suppression or because they simply don't know you're there, both of which are either costly or very situational.

More armor with the same individual agility = more effective mobility of the entire force. More mobility for infantry means less sitting around waiting for the million-dollar McAirstrike to hit.