Why did US police continue to widely use revolvers long after

>>34158721
Why do you care?>>34158721

>>34158721
Because local municipals buy guns for their officers instead of the federal government buying it for them

>>34158721
>fter the rest of the Western world switched to semi-automatics?
lol, no, in the 80's and into the 90s everywhere I went in Europe, the police still carried revolvers while Police and the FBI and most every 3 letter agency in America was switching to semi autos.

>>34158721
because before the drug war that's all they pretty much needed. LEOs up-gunned during prohibition too.

also they were accurate and had big rounds.

>>34158721
because the training methodology revolved around revolver use, faggot.

Because revolvers are superior.

>>34158970
Go to bed, gramps.

>>34158721
Because they had massive stockpiles of them so it was cheaper, the training revolved around revolvers and the bureaucracy slowed adoption down
I mean they switched eventually - it wasn't that slow either

1. Cheap and readily available
2. Accurate, reliable, and foolproof to fix/gauge problems
3. Accountability - an officer can't dump several 10-round mags and waste ammunition using a revolver, nor can they go on some shooting spree, forcing a certain decision-making mindset and clear identification of who or what needs to be shot to end an engagement

It's up to whoever is in charge of the local department, my grandfather was a police chief in the 50s and he bought the whole department 1911s

>>34158721
It's what departments had and most cops weren't nearly as worried about getting into shootouts as they are now. It was cheaper to supply officers with what was readily available. When crime rates went up the capability of your average cop needed to, thats when departments started adapting semi-autos.

It's only comparatively recently that autoloaders have actually gotten extremely good. WWII-era 1911s, which were by far the most popular autoloaders, had terrible 8 lb. triggers, were nowhere near as reliable, were not drop safe, and only offered 2 more shots when carried with a round in the chamber while also having a more complicated manual of arms than a revolver.

>but muh browning hi-power!

It was chambered in a European caliber that was not mainstream in the United States until the 1960s and not truly popular until the 80s. The Hi-Power itself also had very little market share in the United States, the same heavy trigger as vintage 1911s, the same danger of the gun going off when dropped, and a widely maligned magazine disconnect.

The first generation of wondernines circa 1960 was quite a bit better, but, if the Smith and Wesson Model 59 I tried is any indication, even those guns still had a number of teething issues. It's not until the late 70s/early 80s when we begin to see things like the P226 or the 92 series that truly excellent autoloading service pistols become widely adopted and available in the United States.

>>34159124
>crime rates
I think you mean civil rights

Most european police agencies didn't switch to automatics very fast either. I think in the US there are a lot of rural police agencies who don't need their gun that often, and in europe, most autoloaders were not in a really sufficent caliber, most pistols used by the german federal and state-police were in .32 up til the late 70's.

>>34158721
Because beating a man in the head with a stick until he stopped resisting was still considered an acceptable option and the illicit drug trade hadn't taken off.

You'll notice that during Prohibition police began to make the switch towards increased firepower, but this was abandoned in the more peaceful times during and after WWII because revolvers are cheap and easy to maintain.

>>34159275
Rural agencies need their gun more often than Urban ones.

But a revolver was perfectly for putting down injured deer and possibly rabid coons.

>>34158721
If you're interested in this subject I'd highly recommend Glock: The Rise of America's Gun. It covers a lot of the historr that lead to the adoption of modern semi-automatics (mostly Glocks) over revolvers.

To replace revolvers it needed to be point and shoot
>hi powers need not apply
and significantly higher capacity than revolvers to warrant the shift
>no Model 39s either (though Illinois state police adopted them)

They also had to be just as reliable as wheelgats and not too expensive, so it wasn't until the s&w 2nd gen and beretta 92s became more widespread that agencies began making the shift.

>>34158721
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/31/nyregion/gun-of-choice-for-police-officers-runs-into-fierce-opposition.html?pagewanted=all

>>34160125
I think I'll check that out, thanks.

>>34159275
and France as well

>>34158721
Because as a Cop you're not supposed to use your piece to enforce the law. Its there for self defense, and while you've got it pointed at someone you can stall for time until backup arrives.

At least this was the way it used to be back when they were carrying revolvers. It was a tool of intimidation.

They had no problem for example using the .32 s&w long. A measly pop round as strong as a .22 it was unlikely to kill you, just get lodged in your liver or something. You'd be tagged, so you'd have to go to the hospital, and they'd round you up there.

>>34160125
>america's gun
>it's austrian

>>34158721
only small town cops still used revolvers big city cops that would have to use there guns more often and most of the time against more people would have modern semi autos

>>34158721
A good friend of mine was a range officer with a major metropolitan Police department in the US.
They switched from S&W model 15's to Glocks in the 1990's
He said that to this day, they have far more failures and drastically lower accuracy then they had when they were using the revolvers.
He still thinks, and recommends, they switch back

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>>34158721

>>34160831
Revolvers are generally more accurate than semi-autos

>>34160781
Maybe in the 80s this was true, but for a long time the Illinois State police were the only major department with semis

>>34160850
> accurate

>>34160870
Maybe on the range punching paper in single action. Shooting a 10-12 # trigger quickly while under stress? That's a recipe for innacuracy

>>34160850
>he's never heard of 357 sig
Kek

>13 to 15 rounds
>fast mag changes
>125 grain gold dot moving at 1500 fps
Too bad Speer doesn't load it like underwood though

>>34160765
Yes, and America's favorite foods are burritos and cheap knockoffs of Italian flatbread pies. What of it?

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>>34158721
>why

$$$

>>34160765
>21st century
>implying American manufacturers are relevant in the handgun market

Kekles

>>34160885
Knowing you can just keep shooting as much as you want means you spend less time/attention aiming properly.

>>34160904
oh come on the .357(beer keg bullet) doesnt hit as hard as a real .357 no matter how they tried to swing it - its just a hot 9mm thats all

to match a real .357 it would've had to be a 10mm auto case necked to 9mm, also called 9x25 dillon.

>>34160948
9x25 Dillon is more like 357 maximum (from comparable barrels)

>>34160948
That's fudd lore

>>34158754
True but even in a city like New York police were pushed into all black neighborhoods, if I'm not mistaken FEMA modernised their detention center from WW2 detention camps. Same concept it's just men with cop brakes cop engine cop tires cop transmission ,numbers, pensions instead of 1,000 service men and a fenced of theme park. not a 4 in 10 chance they JUST found their way up North America like black neighborhoods of the time the only order in there was how a drug like heroin was babied by the blacks you know friends influence friends music brought a lot of norms between races mind you all this happens still but back then not only did it have to happen but how you should ask? We weren't too far from the depression women weren't going around breaking shit while your drunk ass couldn't find proper work because work there is shoe shiner, barrel stacker, I'm sure a stable job is street cleaning. So for munipalities to offer up money for the invention of a more effective weapon you should ask is this GTA or are there more bastard children then ankle clad women no because if the police is to not act like it's a WW2 American Japanese and of descendants detention camp as it is named that on paper there's proof then they'll have to do with a revolver and in numbers so learn to "detain" like a team.

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>>34161327
>WTF am i reading, the post

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>>34161327

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>>34161327

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>>34161484
eod?

>>34158721
Big bullet + Less breaky

>>34161607
Between what you read and what I answered you could have chosen salt or pepper at some point in the day

>>34161327
>cop brakes cop engine cop tires cop transmission
I think this is from Blues Brothers

1969 two black panthers die? My teachers give me a harder time about making a grade was ucla that good of a school back then now it's just famous for athletes and writers I think... if I had the opportunity to go to school I wouldn't make too much trouble... but whatever I'm on 4chan for this kind of comedy I'd have to have internet bandwidth to watch a aziz anzhari YouTube videos... life is grand in its own way.

>>34161327
>>34162490
t. schizophrenic

>>34162490
what did he mean by this?

>>34162649
Ok thanks

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>>34162490

>>34158721

Many LEO's supply their own backup firearms and snub-nosed .38 special or .357 revolvers were a popular choice because they have fewer moving parts so they're more reliable.

>>34158721
1. Money
2. "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude among police chiefs and elected officials

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>>34159124
>crime rates went up

>>34162949
Compare with crime rates from the 40's-60's.

>>34158721
1- lack of perceived need. Even the FBI didn't get away from revolvers until they got BTFO in the Miami shootout in the 80s. Police militarization has increased A LOT since the War on Drugs started (especially after violence peaked in the 80s-90s Crack era), much like it did in Prohibition when they started to get more potent weapons to deal with gangsters.

2- Lack of perceived quality options. Sure, there were quality semi-autos back then, but nothing was so great as to justify breaking the mold. An extra round or two wasn't really seen as a game breaker, especially if it was in some round like .32 or .380 as opposed to .38 +P or .357 mag. The revolver was the "nyet, pistol is fine" of the era. It did its job well enough that it was hard to justify breaking away from something that was both iconic, utilitarian, and had few real alternatives.

3- Cost and complexity. For a department, something like a quality semi-auto was expensive, and getting new guns means new ammo, new armorer training, all that good stuff. Revolvers are also famously resilient to basic neglect from lack of cleaning, or at least so was the perception. guns that were expected to sit in their holster and (hopefully) never actually fire in anger need that type of long-term durability, to just sit there with no maintenance whatsoever and not care. Semi-autos at the time weren't seen that way, real or imagined, and it would be extra work to learn how to care for them as opposed to "brush out the barrel and cylinders on occasion".

4- Powah, at least for the FBI. The FBI has a love of strong magnum cartridges. Hence they pursued 10mm. But for a long time, there was no semi-auto that offered them that.

While it isn't a reason to prevent switch necessarily, it is worth noting that some places have gone to arbitrarily mandating trigger-pulls. NYPD Glocks have some absurd 10 or 12lb trigger pull, which frankly puts it around the DA of a revolver. Some may be concerned about NDs.

>>34161484
>>34162086

From what i've come to learn knowing an EOD captain, when the EOD guys make that face its generally time to be very concerned.

>>34163229
Crime rates started to rise in the 60s, as the Baby Boomers aka "the most entitled/shitty generation of all time" began to reach trouble-making years.

>>34162949
Departments around were swapped during the late 80s and early 90s-00s for the most part, reacting to the crime wave of the 60s and 70s, so his post was true.
They didn't evolve until after the crime wave that occurred from 67-99

>>34162490
Bacon? Did you escape from >>>/n/?

>>34163338
The only time I met an eod he ignored me and fed my cousin the same line he's learned from recruiting school