A1 vs A2

One has a shitty barrel profile that only exists because Marines should never be tasked with anything more complex than trigger pulling, let alone engineering a whole rifle...

And the other one doesn't.

>>34153129
Almost everything in the A2 project was a marked downgrade from the A1. The only improvement was the round handguards. Even then, the A2 handguards manage to look uglier, despite being logistically superior.

>Annoying knob on the pistol grip
>Grip is too skinny
>Stock optimized for prone
>Over complicated sights, that just add cost
>Shitty barrel profile (who the fuck approved this shit?)

>>34153196
One has been found in the hands of dead GI's jammed with cleaning rods down the barrel, and the other has not so....

>>34153476
You're thinking of the M16, not the M16A1

>>34153460
>Agreed
>manlet
>stock is for bladed stance/non manlet.
>sights are 10/10, less complaced than A1.
>barrel serves as heat sink/barrel whip.
1/10 retard that dosen't understand AR.

>>34153487
>dat damage control.

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>>34153129
A2, cause it looks cooler than the A1 IMO.

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>>34153129
Doesn't matter
None of this matters anymore

But A2 has best aesthetics

>>34153129
Both have forward assists.

Toss them both in the furnace,

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A2 is great, A1 has a better backstory though.

The problem with the A2 was the classic "two steps forward, three steps back". For every legitamite A1 shortcoming that was addressed, new issues quickly followed.

The 1:7 twist on the A2 was a definite improvement but got fucked over by the new barrel profile.

The improved A2 aperture got irredeemably fucked by the new rear sight housing and that god awful elevation knob.

Any improvements to the furniture are obviously offset by A2 pistol grip.

>>34153129
Carbine stock and proper heavy barrel, then the A1 would be basically perfect.
The A2 loses points for being burst

>>34153460
The pistol grip is shit on the A2, but also pretty shit on the A1

>>34153507
The A1 is mechanically flawless, you know nothing.

>>34155901
>mechanically flawless
>need tool to adjust sights
>1/12 twist rate lol
>thin ass barrel heats up and whips.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>34155973
>need tool to adjust sights
Not really, and are you fucking target shooting?

>1/12 twist rate lol
Non-issue.

>thin ass barrel heats up and whips
Not enough to matter.

lol people still defend govt barrel? yes the accuracy improved but that had more to do with m193 vs ss109 and nothing with MUH BARREL WHIP MUH HEAT DISSIPATION because the M16A1 just simply wouldn't heat up enough for the accuracy to drop as a result, sure it's called a 'pencil barrel' but only relative to govt profile, it was plenty thick to withstand sustained fire in an infantry rifle role.

>>34156082
>not being able to adjust sights without tool.
Enjoy missing.
>1/12
Enjoy not shooting anything over 55gr.
>thin ass barrel
SOCOM and the USMC disagree.

>>34156156
>M855 being more accurate than M193
I've been here long enough to see the cognitive dissonance AR fanboys have.
>M855 is garbage
>M193 is king
>Gov barrel sucks
>A1 barrel is king
>reeeeee Mini 14 barrel too thin!

>>34156248
The Mini-14's barrel WAS too thin for the design. It caused stringing. The M16A1 did not.

>>34156248
>accuses ARfags of dissonance
>proceeds to unironically compare the A1 barrel with the Mini14 barrel and think they are in any way similar and that both had stringing issues due to heat buildup
Probably the most hilarious shit I'll read today, thanks dude!

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>>34156248
>>34156404

The thin barrel on the mini just exacerbated the intrinsic inaccuracy of the action and gas system.
The 580 series fixed this as much as it can be without going full bull barrel.


The A2 barrel is still .645 at the area where it counts for durability in continuous full auto conditions.

>>34154480
>1:7 twist

It was only chosen to stabilize tracers. 1:9 would be a much better option.

>I played RS2

>>34155973
>tool
Are you really too afraid to say
>the bullet it shoots
because it reveals what a non-issue the A1 rearsight adjustment is?

>>34156468
Not that anon but I agree, 1/9 and 1/8 are the best.

>>34156502
>oh shit, I have to use something not my hand!
Look up the word tool, and see why EVERY OTHER rifle uses hand adjustment for elevation.

>>34156531
And it's a thing you need to have on hand if you want to fucking shoot. You're being disingenuous.

Wanting to make minute adjustment to irons on an infantry rifle while in the field is hilarious in and of itself.

>>34155973
>heats up and whips
Lmao you know dick about dick, the whipping is bullshit and the part most vulnerable to heat buildup is the exact same thickness on the A2 barrel

Undeniable fact: the A1 is aesthetically superior.

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Autists who genuinely believe the A1 was better are on par with those retards who think you shouldn't use the slide catch as a release because they claim its bad for your gun.

>>34156581
Wtf i love shitty barrel profiles, burst fire, dogshit cams, gritty trigger pull resulting from said cams, and uncomfortable furniture now

>>34156628
Lol well said my friend

>>34153487
He's thinking of the XM16, at most. 602 was a fixed rifle.

>>34153496
You're an idiot if you think the M16A2 barrel profile is anything but antithetical to what a barrel should be.

>>34156468
There's no reason 1/9" would be a better option.

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>all these retards dickriding the A1
If you think the A1 is better than the A2 you're wrong, and >>>/trash/ is there for you.

>this high level of splitting hairs
this is a good thread

but seriously, the gov't profile is raw cancer.

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why not a mixture of both ?

holy shit all the falseness in this thread

>inb4 I'm defending the A1

but no one has made a cogent pro A2 argument, and the anti A1 shit is all retarded

how about:
1) brass deflectors are the bomb
2) the new pistol grip is whatever, people just want an excuse to magpul
3a) the A2 stock sucked shit (but I'm 5 foot six and did Iraq in IBA no problems)
3b) but the A1 stock was fragile look at guys selling milsurp at retarded rip off prices with cracks and nonsense
4) if pencil causes inaccuracy -- it doesn't -- then A2 has the same problem if not worse because of the ding dong on the front
5) fuck 1:7 and 1:12 but hey
6) fuck chrome lining but retards weren't doing maintenance and Ordnance Corps used powder saint stoner PBUH said to not
>>I know post XM16E1 both had it
7) fuck forward assist but you tools all want to pressy checky to feel tactical, hint, no one does that shit
>> I know it's on both

carry handles are actually pretty cool for mounting the smaller ACOG but they blow cock for RDS

I'm sure I have other opinions that stink like everyone's asshole except my ex's

oh and A2 handguards, pretty cool, but obv RIS II and DDM4 supplanted that

>>34154171
W2c that front sling strap around the hand guard

Seriously where the fuck do I find this aside from airsoft 3 point slings

>>34158068
https://www.spectergear.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=933

ITT: neckbeards getting butt blasted over who's made up facts are more real than others made up info

>>34158099
yes thank you i am this guy >>34157803
sythesis of our posts: everything is shit not just the AR15, all of /k/ kills itself and is happier, including us

all because of how shitty captcha has become

>>34156908
>retard doesn't understand barrel harmonics and heat build-up the post.
Look where the barrel is built up at, it's at the gas block and the end of the barrel, the gas block is where heat builds up first and moves FORWARD, and the thick barrel serves to prevent whip while keeping weight down, as leverage up front controls muzzle climb.

>>34156566
See >>34158167

>>34158167
are you forgetting that when released they specifically said the weight there was just for keeping the muzzle down?

or years later that studies about RIS II indicated heat was at the back?

I'm not that guy, I'm not trying to slam you, but this is pretty robustly grasped, and, uhhh #socomweightbarrel or canadian c8, not even sucking muh operators dicks

>>34158161
If we could have captcha's of people's faces expressing emotions we could weed out %90 of /k/.

>>34153476
That retarded fudd-lore is stale. Any and all deficiencies were fixed with the M-16A1.

>>34153129

A2 easily

>>34158199
>fudd lore
>not after action reports
Wew lad.

>>34158167
The middle portion bursts before the thicker portion can even begin to come into play, so the A2 profile is worthless there.

Barrel whip is a total nonissue and makes fuckall difference unless you're shooting at ranges that are reserved for DMRs.

Basically, you're an idiot.

>>34158190
Fire a AR or any rifle for that matter, why does the forward section heat up faster than the rear? Oh wait because the propellant has burned more.

>>34153476
>>34153496
>>34153507
>>34155973
>>34158167
You have really been going all in on that shitposting angle the past couple of days. Nice source of (you)s though

>>34158205
Go ahead and post those after action reports about M-16A1s jamming in battle and getting GIs killed. The problems were with the initial roll out of the early M-16.

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>>34158205
the AARs were about, guess what, the earlier non-corrected weapons ... pre M16A1

your argument's been blown fucking out homie. there's no reason to be emotionally invested in it

>>34158238
and in keeping with what I said to that guy, pic related. go to these PDF. I don't give that many fucks about some internet discussion when I should be doing important shit on a day off, but if anyone gave a shit about what you're describing, that useless weight would be elsewhere. This has just been known for a long ass time. What's more, people keep thinking M16 series are a sniper rifle or a machine gun, hence the obsession with pistons or free floating.
>it just aint.

>>34158194
>How to get rid of genuine autists and sociopaths
I'm all for it.

>>34158238
If the A2 barrel was worth half a fuck as a heatsink the SOCOM profile wouldn't even exist. But it does. Because the "heatsink" that doesn't do shit is worthless.

>>34153129
I am torn between. The two. The a1 handguards are sexy but my a2 is also sexy. I wish I could fit a1 handguards on her.

I also don't mind the grip knob. Fits fine for me.

>>34155973
>1/12 twist rate
Dat yaw on impact tho

>>34158495
>I wish I could fit a1 handguards on her
you can

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>>34158495
Anything is possible.

>>34158521
every bullet yaws on impact, the coefficent to define bullet stability through a medium changes the whole equation a lot. So no, 1/12 does not change bullet behavior on impact. m193 has great fragmentation because of velocity from 20 inch barrels.

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>>34158890
How wide is the bottom of the A1 hand guard? The A2 barrel is honestly kind of retarded and essentially the inverse of what the design should have been...

>>34158932
Sorry I don't know, another anon posted that pic a few weeks ago and I saved it.

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>>34158932
>A2 barrel is honestly kind of retarded and essentially the inverse of what the design should have been...

It's a stupid profile, there is no good reason to have a thicker diameter in front of the gas block. I have an FN CHF 18" barrel in that profile. It's an awesome barrel, very accurate, but it would be nice if was a little lighter up front.

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>>34159061
The reasoning was that every time a barrel was bent it happened to be at or in front of the gas block.

Cool funfact: the XM4 almost got a superior barrel profile until we threw in the m203 requirement.

>>34153129
A1
What's the story about the marines being retarded with a straightness gauge forcing the change to the thicker barrel?

>>34158745
I thought the barrel was too thick and you needed a pencil barrel for it. Are you saying I could slap a1 hand guards on my a2 hbar? Do I have a golden ticket? Do I need to run home and avoid slugsworth?

>>34156206
>Enjoy missing.
Because it's impossible to adjust the sights on an A1 without a toolkit and nobody could ever eyeball or compensate for their sights!

>Enjoy not shooting anything over 55gr.
It'll shoot it just fine if needed.

>SOCOM and the USMC disagree.
SOCOM has lots of crazy ideas, and the USMC can eat my ass, those faggot meatheads think they're actually special forces.

>>34159122
I don't get why they didn't choose the first profile. It would have mounted the M203.

>>34159122
>The reasoning was that every time a barrel was bent it happened to be at or in front of the gas block.
No, that's not the reasoning. That's what the Marine armorers thought was happening, so Colt engineers decided to not argue with them and just do what they (armorers) thought would fix it.

>>34159912
>SOCOM has lots of crazy ideas, and the USMC can eat my ass

This. I am tired of average vets thinking they know guns better than me. I've heard too much contradictory shit from vets that flies in the face of all the other shit I read and hear in the civilian world.

Literally like having some Tires Plus wrencher trying to tell me about race cars.

Now if you're a vet with some actual shooting creds, like trophies or awards or something then I will listen.

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>>34158205
Problems with pre-A1 rifles in the field:
>overpressure ammo running the action too fast
>magazines intended to be used once and disposed being reused because it's either that or no magazines for you
>problems with extraction if left with a round in the chamber for long enough time
>GIs told the rifle cleans itself
>pronged flash-hider would sometimes snag on vegetation (minor issue), or break (not as minor)

What the M16A1 did to solve all of those:
>heavier buffer letting the action cycle at a safe and consistent rate
>actual reusable magazines being issued, initially 20, but later 30 round magazines which were better yet
>bore and chamber being chrome lined, not only making extraction a non-issue, but also making cleaning a breeze and greatly increasing the barrel's lifespan
>included cleaning kit and instructions in their use
>pronged flash-hider would eventually be phased out and the birdcage flash-hider would be standard for most of the A1's service
>also added forward assist, which arguably can sometimes be useful

>>34159061
what is ADCO can lighten it up front alex?

>>34154171
>calorie mate
Sssnnnaaaakke !!!!!

who the fuck cares about shooting anything besides, uh the ammo it was designed for?

muh 150gr 30-06 ball is the bomb

also topkek not knowing how to adjust the killer A1 sight

jesus not understanding the cutout on M4 barrel is useless if the barrel were light

fuck this thread except for the non retards even if I disagree with them

>>34160049
>Problems with pre-A1 rifles in the field:
You can't consider problems with ammunition and logistics really a problem with the rifle and the 602 fixed all those issues. It got the chromed chamber Stoner initially told them to order and fixed the flash hider.

>>34160121
Granted, but they weren't swapping out the ammunition, so the buffer solved that, and disposable magazines are a dumb idea to begin with so moving away from that was sound (and pretty much done at the same time as introducing the A1)

>>34160183
The non disposable magazines were being swapped out with the 602. The AR-15 wasn't even fully adopted by the time the 602 came around, most soldiers never experienced the teething issues.

>>34160121
said it before, will say it again

not against chrome because /k/ accuracy meme, but fuck chrome if morons just cleaned things

what is bore brush? what is chamber brush? how do I CLP, sergeant?

problem solved, problem staying solved

>>34160230
Brass and steel in contact with each other in a humid environment isn't the best idea, especially considering how long a rifle might remain loaded without being fired.

>>34160230
How are you so fucking dense that you do't realize it also significantly increases the lifespan of the bore because chrome is harder than bare steel? Summer really is in full swing, the amount of dumbfuckery being posted here has skyrocketed.

>>34160230
The chrome is important for reliable extraction under harsh conditions and for longer barrel life.

Whats a good price on a Hbar A2 colt?
I do want

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>>34161799
Gunbroker suggests $1000 to $1800 on average.

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>>34161861
Actually I see a few for $800 or less, so depending on how you bid you could get one for not too much.

>>34161240
holy shit, copper v steel

jesus christ, /k/ preaching to a 30 something chemical engineer about materials

>>34161861
>>34161887
I see a lot of hbars with .223 roll marks on the lower. Can you shoot 5.56 in these?

Went to a funshow in VA today and some old fudd had one for fucking 1800 and I was legitimately mad

>>34161951
midlothian turnpike?

>>34162021
Yea,
Fucking sucked

>>34162030
welcome to gun culture near richmond

did we chill one time because of a huge meetup spreadsheet I made, maybe a year ago?

>>34156248
>M855 being more accurate than M193
You would have to be literally retarded to believe that or even think that's what he was implying. 1:12 couldn't stabilize M855 and it keyholed.

>>34162096
Nah,
I'm in 540 and decided to drive to a Richmond gunshow because I haven't been there in 5-6 years. I remember Richmond gunshow being awesome at the peak of Obama where it was like 80% guns and 20% beef jerky. I was looking for a sp-01 tactical, 1897 riot or a HBAR.
>no sp-01 tactical found
>seen a 1897 riot with no blue and a cracked barrel for 500 (kek)
>an HBAR for 1800

>>34162165
I'd been in Harrisonburg a lot, 2 years ago now, trying to get a crack at some townie crack, but she moved. still go a little bit but would rather put the money into bills than my gas tank

>>34160054
Ehh, I've considered it. I'm not sure I'm that motivated to shave a few ounces off. Any idea how much that would cost?

>>34161951
I honestly couldn't tell you for sure if it was a .223 only barrel, you could always call up Colt or something.

Otherwise, replacing the barrel on an AR15 isn't exactly a daunting task.

>>34162119
M855 is balls tho so there's an excuse to not have it

>>34161927
You are literally retarded.

>>34161927
That steel still gets worn down you stupid cumstain, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Water is also a shitload softer than rock but guess what it eventually does to that rock when it's moving against it? Same principle as a copper jacketed bullet going down a barrel.

Give me your employer's number, no one as moronic as you needs to be a chemical engineer.

>>34161927
Well it's a good thing you're not a materials engineer then

>>34162629
name schools with separate material science and chemical engineering departments

my undergrad just mashed a good chunk of the biotech department into ChE, all of a sudden half of the GEDs on /k/ are going to come out of the woodwork saying every post I make is invalid

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Neither. I prefer the USAF type pre-A1 M16

>>34162679
You're in college and you literally have no idea how friction works? Our education system really is fucked.

>>34162922
HOLY FUCKING SHIT DOES EVERY RIFLE HAVE A CHROME BORE NOW

also how did all of my non high pressure test, non magnetic particle inspected bolts and barrels not fail on the first round?

Christ almighty, i know "4chan was always shit" but tonight has been exceptionally bad. i had a really good jack to Nicole Aniston's bung in HD, thankfully

>still doesn't make up for it

>>34163887
Are you pretending to be fucking stupid?

You better not be.

>>34161927
You are lying, you can't have a STEM degree.

>>34163887
It's not a necessity, it's an advantage.

Chrome-lined bore and chamber:
>vastly more reliable extraction in poor conditions
>longer lifespan (appealing with an automatic weapon)
>can handle corrosive ammo without issue
>trivially easy to clean

Not having a chromed bore wouldn't kill the M16, but it wouldn't be as good, there's a good reason why every infantry rifle has a chromed bore today, the minor decrease in accuracy is entirely worth it.

>>34163887
I'm pretty sure you're trolling but summer is in full swing and the ignorant children have been out in droves the past few weeks so I can't be certain

Its chrome so it wont rust, you fucking dingus. God, kill yourself. Heaven forbid soldiers dont have time to scrub their bores for every little drop of water.

>>34153129
Replace A1's handguard with A2's, add case deflector and add A2-style flash suppressor.

Maybe change the material stock was made off, I don't remember if they did it in A2. Don't make any of the ergonomic changes A2 introduced, they're trash, same with 3 round burst.

Done you have a better rifle than both.

>>34153496
>sights are 10/10, less complaced than A1.
The actual truth is that in both cases the sights are far from optimal.

M16 literally only ever needed 250/400 metre flip sight that's zeroed by gunsmith, MAS-36-style.
>>34154480
The twist rate non-debate is really dumb. Had A1 been "finished" when 1:7 twist rate was needed and it would have 1:7 twist rate. Back then they've only used ammo that needed different one, so they've had a different one. AR15 maybe doesn't have quick change barrel but it can be replaced and you can do it with literally every single variant of it.

>>34157595
An abortion.

>>34165377
your comment saddens me

>>34165397
I'm sorry anon, I just think you picked my least favorite features of both and put them together.

>>34157595
Pretty good, replace the old shit plastic with some MagPul or something and you have a perfectly good carbine.

>>34162721
My nig

>>34165138
>>34165308
>>34165313
You guys are feeding the troll, and not even with rebuttals

>>34165518
well it's supposed to be a 733 clone

which allows all A1 and A2 parts