When power armor is invented, will melee weapons be back, anon?

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>>34152390
No, everyone will just carry heavier firearms and/or more ammo.

Imagine, every US soldier being able to hold a m240 like it was a 1911, laying waste to kebab.

We just had this thread last night...

>>34152442
At some points it's going to be counter-intuitive, no?

>>34152454
That's force field, not powaa armaa.

>>34152390
>garbage the post
Nice job kiddo

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>>34152458
Well, so is performing melee attacks when you could just snipe the fucker.

That's why banshees suck and rangers rule, i mean that's why we have sniper teams.

>>34152476
H-hunter-san, I...

>>34152486
These guys are gonna get their ass rushed by ork boyz or assault marines though.

Banshees are needed to hold these guys down.

>>34152491
Screw off

>>34152506
P-please no.

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>>34152500
To be honest though, Eldar are more hit and run/shoot from afar. Kinda like the Tau, but the Tau know what's really up. Just a bit too relaxed in the flamethrower section and a bit too commie.

Anyhow, realistically speaking, melee will almost always be pointless lest you can find a way to mitigate rounds shredding you before you reach the target. Maybe urban combat, but that's what carbines and shotguns are for.

>>34152486
WRONG GAME FUCKSTICK.

>>34152571
>Anyhow, realistically speaking, melee will almost always be pointless lest you can find a way to mitigate rounds shredding you before you reach the target. Maybe urban combat, but that's what carbines and shotguns are for.
That's what armors, jetpacks and numbers are for.

Of course, some terminators just *teleport behind you*

>>34152390
Only in CQC.

>>34152609
Well, fucking duh.

>>34152571
>love the tau
>they're commies
fuck 40k

>>34152646
Tau are shit, anon.

If you want tacticool shit, you either play Imperial Guard, Eldar or shooty Muhreen.

>>34152598
>That's what armors
Doesn't make you bulletproof completely.

>jetpacks
Not useful yet.

>numbers
Machine guns and flamethrowers. See WW2 and Winter War.

>terminators
I don't think we have teleporters. Yet. Also when in doubt, flamethrower and shotguns.

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>>34152584
Does it matter? They all look the same anyways.

>>34152506

fuck off

>>34152675
I'm talking about 40K anon.

With power armor like those, flamer and shotgun are useless.

>>34152476
>>34152506
>>34152716
Stop pretending to be me you fucking nigger cracker slant eyed beaner kebab lower upper middle class faggots.

>>34152736
Well I was talking real life, but whatevs.

But since we're on the topic, just get the Salamanders. They melt through everything. Also I'm surprised there aren't any HEAT or HESH bolts. Then again we're talking about GW, home to Matt Ward and C.S. Goto.

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>hate elves

>>34152774
Salamanders flames have bonus but they can't melt everything lol

>>34152746
>tryingthishard.jpg

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>>34152787
But elf tiddies though.

>>34152390
>hitting the orks pauldron, almost intentionally from the looks of the swing
>left hand down by his side leaving his chest and face wide open for that big warhammer to fuck up
>not sticking his bolt pistol in the orks open face and mag dumping
Emperors elite my fucking ass.

>captcha is bridges ever since todays attacks

Why would melee suddenly become more effective?
Some of these threads just defy logic. Are you going to swing a melee weapon harder then you can propell a bullet at range? Why would you even consider melee if you can use a ranged projectile that's as, or more effective.

>>34153419
Because the people that make these threads want a reality where they are hacking people apart in tight confines with a chainsaw attached to a swords hilt.

>>34152571
Why would the Tau need more flamethrowers when their basic infantry have standard issue plasma guns. Flamethrowers are shit weapons. A single white phosphorous grenade or a round of mortar fire does the same job.

Also fuck that Tau = commie meme-shit. The Tau didn't send their own people by the millions to gulags or have death squads prowling around raping women and killing anybody that gave them the stink eye. Their society is a fucked version of a dystopian utopia. If you want an actual comparison, all you have to do is look at the Imperium: it's basically Stalin's Russia.

>>34153470
>If you want an actual comparison, all you have to do is look at the Imperium: it's basically Stalin's Russia.

>Religous worship of the state and leader
>Mass conscription
>Human wave tactics with spess AKs
>Huge hive cities that exist only to serve the production needs of the Imperium
>Same for agri-worlds
>Commissars
>Inquisition patrolling Imperial space to root out heresy and dissidence

Yup, checks out.

>>34152774
Well, the Deathwatch and Sternguard veterans have custom bolter ammo that's kind of similar.

>>34152774
>home to Matt Ward and C.S. Goto.
You don't say those names ever again.

>>34153470
>the Imperium: it's basically Stalin's Russia.

The imperium is the worst bits of every government humanity has ever had.

>>34152390
*facepalm* you mean force fields right?
It depends on the armor

If the armor to improve defense or just to improve load carrying?
Think about it...
Can a man portable weapon penetrate it if yes then you answer is No
Does it augment strength etc? Then melee can be viable? Does melee need to be viable? Can melee without augmentation penetrate the armor?

Face it firearms changed everything that's why we have the "You brought a knife to a gunfight meme" If you have powered armor it is likely you can carry more gun therefore your answer is NO If can't carry more gun them unless the powered armor is REALLY REALLY good face it it will not in all likelihood get used. A flunky in cloth BDU will shoot your armored ass with a Antitank weapon.

There by using three brain cells you did NOT have to have a redundant many times times duplicated thread... now if you wanted a fantasy like most the of the posters assumed you wanted you got it... if it was a serious question next time post some conditions

>>34153666
Go back to l*ddit, Satan.

Also, power armor improves the strength as well as protection, thus you can actually cleave a car in half with your power sword.

>>34153419
Let's see
>cheap
>lightweight
>stealthy
>accurate
I don't know, anon.

>>34152598
>Of course, some terminators just *teleport behind you*
Teleporting is a unpleaseant experience even for Terminators, and if you're really unlucky, your end destination will not be realspace.

>>34153942
And it's what they use to breach, Imperium is about fuck we are taking that risk to destroy enemies.

Same concept for plasma weapon.

>>34153906
You just described a subsonic bullet.

>>34153960
Subsonic bullet runs out anon.

Unlike mein sword.

>>34153404
I think it's better if you see the fight in real action.

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Here is a link to the firewarrior novelization, because..fuck it , why not?

>>34155092

shit forgot, the link


http://wh40klib.ru/books/Imperial_Guard_books/Simon_Spurrier-Fire_Warrior.pdf

Wouldn't it make more sense if the people in power armour could carry bigger guns and deal with more recoil so they can shoot other power armour with artillery rounds and we are back where we started only a fuck ton more epic.

>>34155102
They do, we have heavy machine gun muhreen (devastators), but there are nothing with assault marines who jump in to break the enemies rank either.

>>34155113
I don't play video games so if this is video game talk I don't understand.

>>34155122
OK.

Just watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA58wrj27mc

>>34152390
No because a shaped charge IRL would kill a space marine. The only reason to have a melee weapon would be if you were clearing buildings and even then a shotty would be better.

>>34155155
Why the fuck would a space marine step on a shaped charge?

>>34155133
I'm still confused, I think I'll just leave this thread.

>>34155168
OK anon.

>>34152390
Here are some totally ludicrous reasons why melee weapons could perhaps be more reasonable for space marines in 40k than for humans today. 1. power source is limitless (reactor on the armor), 2. Many things they fight choose to get into melee regardless of if its a good idea, meaning they have a higher chance of being involved in it 3 They can run way faster than a normal human, and so do some of the melee loving things mentioned above 4 Some kind of weird bullshit tactical advantage involving close ranged combat preventing enemies from shooting you for fear of shooting their allies

>>34152390
No because when tanks came to be a thing they put guns on them instead of lances.

>>34155166
I'm not talking about mines anon I'm talking about things like RPGs.

>>34155187
Space marine can take cover, anon.

They aren't literal walking tank.

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>>34153419
Starship Troopers put it best.

>Ace Levy: Sir, I don't understand. Who needs a knife in a nuke fight anyway? All you gotta do is push a button, sir.
>Career Sergeant Zim: The enemy can not push a button... if you disable his hand. Medic!

>>34155184
To be fair, the cannon can still serve as a lance.

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>>34155192
Well yes but just like on tabletop and fluff if you've got some guy in power armor showing up you're gonna be using every ap weapon you have on hand.

Same for irl troops. They'll use any anti tank weapon they can get their hands on.

>>34155223
Come on now, every space marines got power armor.

The guards might have more RPG than muhreen, but you literally cannot shoot every muhreen with a RPG.

Not to mention, the assault marines have jetbacks, good luck hitting that with a shaped charge.

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I seem to recall a horus heresy story where an imperial army regiment had a company of pikemen...seriously.

>>34152694
Sorry, been on /tg/ for a LONG time.

>>34155206
The only time Zim used a knife in starship troopers was when he manage to get a shave when they were out in the field. Please don't quote your trash movie adaptions, that film was entirely a joke, and you're an unread philistine to use something that trashed the source material so bad.

Also, he threw the knife. if you throw your knife, you're now out of a knife. A knife is going to break against something just like a bullet would and it'd most likely do less damage even if you didn't literally throw it away and run out of knives after doing that once.

>>34153470
>>34153502
In the Imperium's defence, Guilliman was like "What have you retarded fucks done!?!"
>reads lectitio divinitatus.
>"Wait, this looks familar.... LORGAR!!!"
The Imperial Cult is just as planned by Chaos, keeping people ignorant and killing tech development.

Why are 40kfags always 100% retarded? Your fiction is specifically designed for everything to be impractical and for rule of cool. None of it is remotely realistic and is entirely to look awesome. Stop being autistic for 10 seconds before you make these posts. Thanks.

Power armor will never exist. Human controlled robots can do the job better, cheaper, and safer

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>>34152486

Fuck yeah Warmachine. I love how different the Retribution Elves are from other fantasy elves. They're like if /tg/ and /k/ had a baby.

>>34152390
maybe for a while, but only until weapons catch up after that again.

>>34155223
heavy bolter more effective than rpg

>>34153906
Ah yes, we've been doing it wrong, if only we armed our men with swords instead of guns, the Iraqi war would had been over in days.

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>>34152390
>When power armor is invented, will melee weapons be back, anon?

This annon considers it unlikely. M995 (5.56) and M993 (7.62x51) use tungsten carbide cores and go through 1" of rolled homogeneous armor (and of course level 4 plates). If the power armor has better protection then 1" RHA, then there's things like the M948 that shoot 62 grains of tungsten carbide at 4000fps.

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>>34152390

No, instead soldiers will be issued semiautomatic grenade launchers (or perhaps just shotguns with explosive/autobursting rounds) to deal with the new and more capable threat. Also more mortar and 'nade spam in the near term.

>>34152442

Why use something as small as 7.62? Since the Army would already be dumping several million dollars into each individual solider, just give them a huge shotgun that can fire 25mm shells. Because at that point, blowing all the extra money on training and specialized ammunition would make sense as soldiers would effectively become walking Bradleys. But we could probably go bigger, why not just issue soldiers 60mm repeating mortars? The only obstacle is getting the weapon length below 36", as anything larger would be too cumbersome inside buildings.

>>34152454
I went to a concert and then went to a night club last night, I wasn't present for this conversation

>>34157315

>implying there is a need for buildings to exist when all grunts have 60mm mortars

>>34152390
No.

I mean, just look at your picture, OP. The space marine's sword is glancing harmlessly off the orc's armor.

>>34157597
this exactly hahahah

>>34157315
>25mm shells
>walking Bradleys

Because that isn't what I meant by power armor. I was thinking more practical powered exoskeletons. For now, 7.62x51 NATO has sufficient firepower to shred most stuff (namely kebab). If it gets any bigger, just use a .50 BMG.

Besides, if you want that amount of firepower, might as well get a 40mm.

>why not just issue soldiers 60mm repeating mortars
Rockets my friend. Also heavily impractical on anything outside a vehicle. An actual vehicle, not just someone with hydraulics glue to him,.

>>34153973
You know what also runs out? Your stamina and fuel.

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>>34157315
>semiautomatic grenade launchers

No, we can improve it. We have the technology.

Nothing is ever going to stop you from making a gun that shoots swords.

>>34156118
Variety strengthens versatility, so being trained with a knife and being issued one isn't such a bad thing.
And didn't a later protagonist disable a brain-bug with a knife? Seems reliable in the extremes to me

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>>34152390
Yes but you'll still at least have some other weapon like a PDW to fill in the ranged role.

At the heart of it is due to increased Protection you can lay into enemies that arent likewise armored, at close or short engagement range, without worrying about being hit.

When everyone is getting power armor though, it depends on whether the firepower of their weapons has increased.

They would use heavier weapons of course, but anything that cant reliably get through the armor is pretty much going to be discarded or used by police.

> Thats like in Fallout 1...

The T-51 power armor was virtually invincible against all forms of JHP ammunition, and even AP ammunition had some problems causing damage unless you knew where to aim (bonus ranged damage perk).

(im guessing in FO1 the damage mod for ammunition types only applied to the bonus damage provided by perks or critical hits, it didnt apply to the damage roll itself)

But not everybody used Power Armor... almost everyone in the war used various degrees of Combat Armor which was good but didn't offer full coverage.

T-51 equipped soldiers were given Miniguns to mow them down since shotcount meant being shotgunned with semi-effective munitions. They would get hit so many times that vulnerable areas would be hit and they'd be fatally wounded.

They didn't use the Miniguns against other power armor. They used Rocket Launchers, Flamethrowers, and when they became available... the Gatling Laser and Plasma Rifle.

However they did have the Ripper and Power Fist for close engagements. That gave them enough latitude to be able to take apart other soldiers wearing power armor up close without it becoming a drawn out affair.

The super sledge might've also been a thing, but I dont remember if that was a Brotherhood only post-war invention

>>34160689
don't talk to me or my source literature ever again

>>34155230
> but you literally cannot shoot every muhreen with a RPG.

Yes you can, there's only 1 million marines in the entire galaxy divided into 1k chapters (with 1k marines in each). Meaning that at most you'll fight 1k marines in an entire war with a major battle having 100-300 space marines in it, a division of soldiers (numbering 20k troops) will have more than enough anti-tank weapons to defeat a space marine fighting force.

>>34160689
>Variety strengthens versatility
B-but muh racial purity!

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>>34160935

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>>34152442
>we're so close.jpg
>yfw the cutting edge of DAKKA is already here

>>34152656
>Tau are shit
Hard to root for Humanity when they keep fucking themselves over in the 40k universe.

>>34161071
Don't worry, Big Daddy Guilliman and the Chadmarines are here to save the day

>>34156118
In Starship Troopers they were taught knife because it was part of their melee training. MI was not just for Bugs They may of been in a war against a alien species but Juan Rico's government knew they might have to duke it out against other humans. The MI were effectively Swiss army knives, good for any use. And the training in melee did help them out from time to time even against Bugs.
Heinlein even made the point complicated weapons were not the way to go even with high tech.
And the investment in training soldiers and giving them their gear made it likely you wanted them and their suit back intact as much as possible.

>>34160594
...That then explode!
Into more swords!

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>>34152656
I beg your pardon Gue'la?

>>34161223
>The MI were effectively Swiss army knives, good for any use.
>Heinlein even made the point complicated weapons were not the way to go even with high tech.
This. Also relevant, from Heinlein's Time Enough for Love: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

>>34161223
I honestly don't even recall knives being mentioned in the book, in fact the mobile infantry didn't have have guns on their armor, they had a flame thrower, grenades, dizzy was a dude in the book and died in the first chapter getting clubbed to death by aliens, the only time he made a point about crude weapons was saying the bugs were advanced enough to be a space faring civilization that could launch intergalactic attacks even using meteors. Generally the MI used weapons suited for their task, like against the skinnies they were just trying to deliver a spank so they'd join them.

>>34162732
The only other interesting book he wrote I found interesting was TMiaHM.
robocop guy butchered ST on purpose.

>>34163048
The book is very different than the Movie, like a lot. I enjoy them both but for different reasons.

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>>34152390
If by melee you mean using rifles that shoot rebar spears at people, then yes.

>>34163073
the movies okay
if you see it in middle school and hate reading

>>34152442
This. the mechanical motion of swinging your arm to move a sword is MUCH harder than just pulling the trigger. That ALONE would be a reason not to do it.

If I was an engineer, I'd much prefer to just make a bot hold heavier weapons than be told "you need to make a fully articulating shoulder that can replicate the full-range of human motion so they can swing this titanium anime-sword at fellow robots". If i got that order, I'd ask if the buyer was fucking insane.

>>34163090
The movie is good when you want to see some over the top military wanking and not worry about missing any sort of plot or subtext due to being 12 beers deep.

The book is an objectively superior work of fiction that details the possibilities of a future "post apocalyptic" society. Delves into the implications of the role of a military in government, and who truly has a right to decide the outcomes and direction of society.

Both good, just for different purposes.

>>34163156
IT's not even a post apocalyptic future in the book, it's utopian. The only hitch is military service in exchange for political inclusiveness.

The Federation makes the opportunity of Federal Service open to everyone, able-bodied or not. A doctor giving a medical examination says "if you came in here in a wheelchair and blind in both eyes and were silly enough to insist on enrolling, they would find you something silly to match. Counting the fuzz on a caterpillar by touch, maybe." The only impediment that can render one ineligible for federal service is if a psychiatrist determines that one cannot understand the oath of service.

"Civilians" are neither discriminated against, nor deprived of legal rights other than that of the ballot.

Basically their society has a job for anybody, and all of humanity is pretty much united, some how a anti military director decided to shit on it because their little idea of a utopian world wouldn't have a military even if space monsters want to kill you.

>>34163256
>IT's not even a post apocalyptic future
Yes it is just really far down the line. The history of the federation is directly related to the military veterans of different nations banding together to instill law and order immediately following WWIII.

>>34163275
>>34163256
Cont. To be fair using the lose definition of "post apocalyptic" like how I used it in my first post, we could also include the Star Treck federation. As they are a utopian society that came out of the remaining humanity post WWIII.

>>34155095
thank you anon <3

>>34152390
That depends on how much and how often those armored soldiers expect to be outnumbered by lots of unarmored troops.

Saving their ammo for actual big threats that need to be suppressed or shot at might be a smart idea. If you are wearing a class of powered armor that is invulnerable to a particular common weapon (ie intermediate service rifles), why waste the ammo on these particular opponents when you can run up to them and shatter their skull with a single punch? Sure, don't walk into traps and ambushes while you're at it, but if the opportunity presents itself; why not?

Bayonets could also work here if people are too lazy to walk a few feet closer.

>>34155172
>4 Some kind of weird bullshit tactical advantage involving close ranged combat preventing enemies from shooting you for fear of shooting their allies
If your enemies need to use giant cumbersome recoilless rifles and explosive weapons such as rockets and grenades in order to breach your armor, then dropping in directly on top of enemy lines is an ideal strategy. The enemy stands as good of a chance at killing himself or his friends whenever he fires as he does to the assaulting armored troops. A combination of short and compact ranged weapons and some supplemental melee weapons to whack people who don't pose a high threat (carrying only small arms) is what you want to bring to such a party.

Just so happens that bolter, combat knoife and chainsword fits the bill very well.

>>34163275
>>34163304
I've never heard it used in that context before, that's like saying we live in a post apocalyptic future now.

>>34160962
Is this real ?

>>34156148
end Cultural Chaotism

>>34163964
Not really. While empires have risen and fallen, we have never seen a global catastrophe/collapse like what is described in the post WWIII eras of either the Star Treck or Starship Troopers Federations.

>>34164656
star trek wasn't even really that catastrophic now that i think about it, it was just a eugenic war by khan. obviously the remake was trying to draw some parallels with the nazi making him into a white guy for the remake. that's another thing that sucked about ST movie, rico wasn't even a white guy in the book.

>>34164999
not to say a eugenic war isn't bad but i mean it's just khan and they try to over play it to make him a more threatening character

>>34164048
>is this real

Is this fantasy?

>>34152506

Hey kids, wanna hear about the time I felatiated an armorer and he payed me in seme- I mean attatchments again?

>>34164999

The book made it clear that racial distinctions didn't matter.

The movie was entirely different aside from HUMANS VS ALIENS as the core concept.

The book is a authoritarian utopia where the only reason to serve was to vote. Serve the state, the state serves you mentality.

The movie has that but it's also hinted across all the movies that the Fed is having issues controlling the population with food riots and shit happening. There's some transcript out there that the ORIGINAL meteor was meant to be done by humans as to give humanity a population purging outlet for its anger.

That's why you get talks about rebellions in the news and it only expands till movie 3 where they force a state religion to mitigate the rebels.

>>34155092
>>34155095
First 40k novel I ever read. All the Tau words took a little getting used to, but you'll catch on from the context.

Thanks for the link, highly recommended to anyone here. Metal as fuck levels of violence.

>>34165096
>The book is a authoritarian utopia where the only reason to serve was to vote. Serve the state, the state serves you mentality.
It wasn't even really authoritarian, the only difference was vets got to vote while civvies didn't. Froma stand point, literally nobody would of been rejected from service while been given a job according to their abilities meaning the only reason why they wouldn't serve is simply because they do not care about society. Are you sure you're not a neo liberal if you're interpreting people that feel society owes you everything for nothing in return?

The movie had nothing to do with the book, the director even admitted they didn't even read it, they just heard humans vs space bugs and pulled the rest of it out of their ass while throwing in a few names from the book. The movie was such a hit job that everyone thinks the government in the book was authoritarian and evil when it was basically just a coming of age story about a kid in an unavoidable conflict. It's like why his dad joined the MI and explained he didn't feel like a man since he'd been avoiding conflict.

The simple answer is because the defensive capability of armor is better than the offensive quality of most ranged weapons.

You gotta think, the Astartes aren't line troopers, they're the Emperor's Scalpal, special forces on gene-steroids. In the novels Astartes armor is basically lasgun-proof, and even boltgun rounds have a chance of deflecting. An enemy using small arms very well might not be able to drop a charging space marine before they get into melee range. An astartes fighting something like traitor guardsmen (or a traitor astartes fighting loyal guardsmen for that matter) is basically small-arms-proof and can hop in a trench and get stabby on 'em with impunity. For traitors this has the bonus effect of pleasing Khorne (Slannesh OUT). Astartes vs Astartes, boltguns are far and away more effective than lasguns and will punch through most of the time, but power-sword or chainaxe will cut through ceramite like a hot knife through butter, first time every time or your money back.

Also, Tyranids. Have fun reloading while your buried in hormagaunts, too you ditched the chainsword for extra bolter magazines.

>>34160920
You can shoot 1000 muhreen with 1000 RPG but not all muhreen will be hit by a RPG.

>>34157707
Look at the real fight anon, not a picture.

>>34165096
But the Federation is essentially a model democracy similiar to the ancient Greek democracies with citizens serving in combat. However in Starship Troopers you don't need to be a soldier, but can serve as a teacher, doctor or other important positions to society. The story is essentially that the old democracies nuked each other due to the elected leaders being incompetent idiots while the populace were spoiled cunts that didn't participate in the democractic system. So the survivors decide that you have to serve/put yourself in danger to understand the horrors of war.

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>>34156148
at least he's back to fix things

>>34155168
Jesus fuck you are literally the most worthless poster on this fucking board.

>>34155230
Depends on the regiment

Maybe they all have plasma carbines?

A melta gun+plasma gun per squad, so 7 lethal weapons per platoon. Platoon takes on 1 squad, so kill 7 easily then lasrifles for the other three.
Guard may lose a squad in the meanwhile but guard win.

>>34152486
lol pointing his finger even though they're both looking into a scope