Katana Debate

>>34126631
No
No
Kills people in light armor alright
No hand protection, not good at stabbing, heavy

>>34126631
They're slow to swing, but they have a good phantom range.

>Is it one of the most useful swords?
Yes : good at thrust, good at cut.

>Is it better than Long Swords?
Against soft target : yes, because of the curve.

>How are Katanas good?
They were good. But high quality homogeneous steel can be as good.

>How are Katanas bad?
There is little hand protection. The reach isn't great for a two handed weapon. It weights quite a bit for its length. Composite blades are expensive.

>>34126631
A) Considering that pretty much every advanced culture adopted curved swords at some point I'd say so. I wouldn't say it's particularly more useful than any other sword that filled its niche though.
B) Neither is necessarily better. The katana is a specialized cutting sword and if you're into that that's probably what you'd prefer, although the stab vs cut debate has never ever been settled in the history of man and the people who prefer the former will probably overlook the katana. The longsword is more versatile and that's not something to be overlooked but its versatility is also overblown. I've even seen people claim that mordhau, invariably called halfswording by Westaboos, is more effective than a mace.
C) They're thick, heavy convexed blades that are traditionally made with pretty good forge welding techniques and a beefy tang seated into the hilt with a pin or pins instead of the stick tang construction that gives people aneurysms today. Pretty much everything about them was stolen from the Chinese, who had way more room to experiment than the Japanese.
D) Forge welding, even pretty good forge welding, is generally outclassed by good monosteel. That said, many modern non-traditional katanas are made of 1060 and such instead of forge welded strips of different steels. I guess if I could change anything it would be the hand protection, maybe something more along the lines of an elongated oval than a circle.

>>34126631
>- Is it one of the most useful swords?
It's a two-handed sidearm that can be carried at your side pretty easily. It's a sword. It's overhyped in anime, TV, and games, but it's not terrible. It's just...a sword.

>- Is it better than Long Swords?
Depends. Katanas might be better at cutting than the Later Oakeshott types, but on average, I'd say katanas and longswords are about the same in terms of cutting power. Longswords are probably better at thrusting and have the advantage of being double-edged which gives the longsword user more versatility.

>- How are Katanas good?
They're good at cutting, decent at thrusting, and feel comfortable. They're relatively aesthetic depending on who you ask.

>- How are Katanas bad?
Very poor hand protection for unarmored fighting and short reach for a two-handed weapon. I'd take a longsword over a katana any day, but I'd rather take a one-handed saber or highland broadsword first.

>>34127276
They can swing pretty fast if you use the inertia of running.

>>34126631
>_< - Is it one of the most useful swords?
It is only as useful as whomever bears it.
>_< - Is it better than Long Swords?
First you must define "better;" then you will realize that your question is meaningless (and wrongly worded) and ask a better question: "How may one who wields a Katana defeat the wielder of a Long Sword?"
>_< - How are Katanas good?
In the hand of an artist, a repurposed toothbrush may paint a masterpiece. A well-made Katana is as serviceable as any other weapon in the hands of a properly trained master swordsman.
>_< - How are Katanas bad?
In the hand of an autist, an expensive paintbrush is a spoon for eating paint. You will probably loose a finger or an eye when your twenty dollar mall katana breaks in half on your third attempt to hack that inch-thick treebranch in half because the blade is made out of brittle stainless steel and you are an idiot.
>_<
Think upon these things and come back when you understand that which you should have known already.
>_<
My burgundy red shirasaya 1045 carbon steel katana (manufactured maybe by Musha or that company that starts with an "O") sold by Makoto just arrived.
>_<
I like it even though it is not realistic, but at least it is constructed of decent steel with a full tang, and it's got a good heft to it. I have not cut anything with it yet, but I would like to put a better edge than the rough one the factory sharpener was rushed to produce (which is actually a good sign of this particular steel's hardness through tempering).
>_<

>>34129191
OP here.
The "is it better than Long Swords" was a question everyone else got-.. besides you. How is a Katana better that a long sword? Or if it isn't, they explain how it isn't.

Other than that, I'm loving these replies, and this friendly debate.

>>34129233
>thank you are welcome
;^)

>>34126631
useful? only cutting, no blocking or parry cause you risk chipping the blade and then when you cut it gets stuck due to chip.
better than longswords? at cutting soft targets yes, thrusting or otherwise actual combat with an actually armored opponent, no
good? they were developed from low quality steel so the design is very speciallized if you want a good cut it can be your sword.
bad? not quite as versatile as i would like so i would say its bad as hell

Just get an axe if you want usefulness.

>>34131339
>HURR DURR no blocking or parrying because you might chip this instrument of battle meant to be banged against people in armor until they die

This meme needs to die.

>>34127496
No, it's not good at thrusts, when will this fucking meme end. It's great at cutting, but any straight sword on the planet thrusts better than a katana, it's basic physics.

>>34128596
It's literally a sidearm, the Japanese medieval equivalent of an officer's pistol - it's not meant as a primary offensive weapon, rather a backup weapon or for executions. Most japanese warriors used some sort of polearm or bow, few people came charging into battle with nothing but a katana against fully armoured opponents.

>>34126631
They're good at what they intend to be used for, so yeah they're useful

There's no such thing as a sword type that's "better" than another sword type. So no

They're good at cutting, the stiff blade means
they're alright at thrusting but the tip is too thick to make them great at it. Overall they were made very well and you can read countless stories of british officers and troops that wish they had them because they were incredible compared to the standard issue (And even the high quality stuff officers bought) sabres, you'll hear the same thing about the Indian tulwar as well

They're fairly short for a two handed weapon, and the edge being very hard makes for a brittle edge

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>>34126631

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>>34129191
>In the hand of an autist, an expensive paintbrush is a spoon for eating paint.

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>>34126631
good for copping up poorly armoured foes

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>>34126631
A tachi and nodachi is better. The katana itself is hard to defend with due to simply size and possible thickness compared to cavalry sword variants. The simplified katana itself was a secondary weapon to the Yumi or Tachi before the Muromachi period. The rise of Kobudo made it so that common people could be trained in warfare quickly in volunteered service as a way of life to levy conscription. The katana was the simplest form completely based on aesthetic for a whole army to wield. Maybe because... battlefield aesthetics>function was the Japanese style?

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>>34134024
>No, it's not good at thrusts, when will this fucking meme end. It's great at cutting, but any straight sword on the planet thrusts better than a katana, it's basic physics.

The Katana, unlike the Tachi, has only a slight curve. It is almost straight toward the point. It has a very stout piercing point.

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>>34126631
All swords are useful depending on their use
It's better than a longsword in some aspects, e.g. it's shorter and more compact, but that is also a disadvantage
Katanas are good because they have a single edge with a thick spine that allows for powerful blows, as well as the unsharpened spine is betting for parrying than an actual sharp, but more brittle, edge

In addition, the differential hardening means the hard, but brittle edge has a different structural composition than the softer spine, meaning unless improperly made, a Katana will NEVER snap completely, all the way through, as a monosteel sword would.

How are Katanas bad. The curve means it cannot thrust as well as other swords. It only has one edge. This is an advantage and a disadvantage, depending on how you wish to use it. The Tsuba circular or oval guard offers not as much protection from enemy blades as a cross guard does, nor as much ability to catch an enemy's blade.

The high carbon steel used to form the edge is, while minutely sharper than most other swords, it is also much more brittle and prone to chipping.

Due to their diminutive size, along with the differential hardening meaning only one small part of the blade is useful when sharpened to a cutting edge, when they finally need re-sharpening, there isn't many sessions of sharpening a Katana can have in it's life time before it's worn out.

While not being comprised of mono, or homogenous steel, as most European swords can be an advantage, it is also a disadvantage. If struck against too stout a target, the rigid Katana will bend permanently and need manually setting straight, while a European sword will absorb the shock (if it is not too much) and spring true without effort.


And last of all they're a fucking pain in the ass to make.

>>34126631
>Is it one of the most useful swords?
It's a sword. It worked fine for the people who used it.

>Is it better than Long Swords?
This is kinda tomatoes and oranges, yes they're both a fruit but they're pretty damn different in who used them and how. They both did what they needed just fine for a long time.

In an actual fight skill>fancy special swords.

>How are Katanas good?
The curve probably does help the the cut with proper form.
Does a swell job against lighter armor types.
They look fuckin neat.
Probably a great way to make a burglar shit themself.
You have an excuse to yell at home intruders in weebanese before liberating their heads from their shamefur shoulders.

>How are Katanas bad?
Fuck all for hand protection.
Not exactly made with fighting an opponent with a shield in mind.
The chinese make fucktons of horrible knockoffs.
Probably not exactly the easiest thing to repair. Other swords with a similar issue might be perfectly fine and ready to roll after a simple trip to the blacksmith.
LOLOLOL BESTEST SWORD EVAR! SO SHARP IT CUT UNIVERSE! NOTHING PERSONNEL, KID!!! LOLOLOL

Spears>both swords. I'd much rather have spear should I need to defend myself with a melee weapon. Bonus points if it also shoots bullets.

>>34134559
I really wish people would stop posting this. That whole damn show was krauts having a good long wank about how very specifically the "german longsword" was the bestest thing evar.

>>34126631
>Useful
Back then when your targets were farmers and local militia? Yes. Now adays were your avergage civilian can get body armor or a sharksuit? Hardly.
>Longsword
Depends, I would always vouch on arming sword though, far more versatile.
>Good
Very impressive at slicing through flesh and cloth, especially the godly crafted ones. They are pretty quick too for a sword that heavy, in part due to the slight curve.
>Bad
The guard is aids, and really only serves as a stopper for your hand.
Against any sort of armor, they fall extremely short.
They are also fairly weak, you can hack at a tree with a Longsword and work it back into a useable condition, a katana? Not so much.

>>34128961
True, but then you're opening yourself up to be staggered by someone with a bigger weapon.

>>34136141
I love arming swords since they are nice and light but against a longsword unless you have a buckler or shield you really struggle to stop them steamrolling your sword out of the way

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>>34129191
>In the hand of an autist, an expensive paintbrush is a spoon for eating paint

Holy shit I'm fucking dying

>>34129191
>A properly trained swordsman


Id feel confident going against the best swordsman in Japan with literally cold steel.

Size and speed wins.

>>34136182
Speaking of arming swords.

I want one, where should I look?

>>34126631
Upsides:
>sharp as fuck, great at killing unarmored peasants and militiamen, slicing through pig carcasses
>looks fucking sick
>might not look too autistic as a wallhanger
>historical significance
>be the envy of all your weeb friends if you own a real one and not a shitty repro
>light
Downsides:
>made by great smiths doing the best they could with super shitty metal; will shatter if it strikes a target in any way other than perfectly
>will also shatter on armor
>you'll look extra autistic carrying it (as opposed to a euro sword)
>light, so much so that it imparts very little force to the target
>relies on quickdraw
>what even is reach?
>will flake and rust like nothing you've seen before if not oiled and sharpened with special oils and stones while being sung a lullaby in perfect fuedal-era Japanese on a daily basis and snuggled to sleep by a virgin maid who never eats anything but authentic sushi at an authentic kotatsu every full moon

>>34126631
OP, you need to go find /asp/'s sole remaining HEMA thread. for the record, "Katana" literally means "Long Sword"

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Just to chime in here

The Katana is a good sword and noteworthy, but is not all that some say it is.

Regarding the curve in swords there are three reasons for it I know of.

1. Better soft target cutting. The curve better focuses the blade pressure. However this difference is typically less then 2%, so any decent muscle training more then makes up for that in typical fight.

2. Smooth release at high speeds and distances. This really only matters if you are on horse back, or some other long high speed crossing strike. And frankly if that is the case, you should get a Cavalry Saber or something more specialized.

3. Thermal expansion differences in the metals that curve the blade during cooling. This is the real reason it was curved. In fact early smiths and users hated the curve as it made it less functional overall for general use. But this method also dramatically increased the strength of the blade so it caught on, as the increased sharpness and strength were deemed worth the cost of a straight edge blade.

Note with modern engineering we don't have to make this choice, we can have both. Metallurgy largely is why the east and west have such different sword development. Their iron ore veins were different. The west had good veins so they did not spend as much time developing new reinforcement techniques to compensate for low quality ore. Thus not a huge amount complex spine design or labor intensive folding that spawns the cool stories you hear. For perspective the German blades had 3 named types of fullers, Japan had 10 names each separately studied. That not to say the west didn't studied the heck out of sword development, everyone did, they just took a different route to address the problems they had. Other place had different materials, and their sword took radically different directions.

>>34136345
How much are you willing to spend?

>>34126631
>not designed to fight against armor
>not good at thrusting
>no "half-swording"
>no pommel strikes
>no binding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aeWU8CYl5M

>>34136672
Depends entirely on what's available.

>>34136180
Yes, but if you're lucky, a little CR will make the payoff from the bleeding wound worth it.

>>34126631
They are surely badass weapon
Japan makes world's best sword.