how can /k/ explain this?

The positive western/negative russian scores are solely because of Israel vs. Arabs

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>>34104656
The right side only fight asymmetrical wars.
Phantom has no glory, only killed Vietnamese farmers flying garbage

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>>34104683
/thread

>>34104697
Actually it's more complicated than that, but not all that more complicated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZk4Yu42g0I

If you have enough money to equip your air force with American planes, you have enough money to train your pilots well.

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>>34104691
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20

>MUH UNTRAINED PILOTS x10000000000000

>>34104656

>The country that literally invented aeronautics is better at it than a country who picked it up as an afterthought

Gee, who would have thought?

>>34104691
Not even the Vietnamese were given the latest and greatest Russian tech, even the East Germans got it after them.

>>34104683
>excuses
>>34106055

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>>34104691
>le untrained Vietnamese farmer meme

>>34104691
>iran iraq
>assymetrical

wew! Ill admit that its a shame that the Flanker never tangled with any of the F-Teens, it would have been a good fight.

>>34104697
Poor arabs.
>Btfo by a country that's a 1000 years old but was founded in the 1940's.

Face it. Arabs just suck at war.

Pretty good at killing each other though.

>>34106063
>Inventing stuff makes your country better at it three generations later
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking

>>34106241
>what is practice
>what is the US military industrial complex

>>34106222
>Pretty good at killing each other though.
I've seen some of the firefights, saying that they are good at it is a bit of an overstatement. Just PKM-over-the-head shooting, a lot of allah akbhar with somebody slipping through a suicide bomber as the grand finale.

>>34106257
Not invented by the wright brothers.

>>34104697
>when your country was founded by street gangs in the 40s and defeats nations that have been established since antiquity

>>34104691
>only killed Vietnamese farmers flying garbage
though Vietnamese got more ace than American

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vietnam_War_flying_aces

>>34106055
Never gets old.

>Egypt even tells them exactly what to look out for
>CYKA BLYAT YOU OF NOT KNOWINGS HOW TO FLY CYKA WE SHOWINGS YOU

>>34106055
>Romanian MiG-21MFs, the Soviet aircraft type deployed to Egypt.
>Romanian
low quality aircraft desu izhevsk mig 21 would penetrate 100 mirages with 1 rocket

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>>34104656
>Implying American F-4 pilot wasn't scare shitless when they see VNAF MiG-21

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20

LOL I CAN't EVEN

>>34107470
>>34107422

>>34107495
>excuses
How does the fact that they are 'Romanian' change anything?
If anything, don't choose shit allies

>>34106222
It's cuz cavalry is obsolete, and they can't compete with nations that had 150+ years to build a military industrial complex. Professional soldiering in the middle east was the province of the Mamluks, then Ottomans, then Bongs and Frogs took over. So all their western-style military science is transplanted and separate from the illustrious military achievements of former regional empires.

(Crusaders btfo by Mamluks, Mamluks btfo by Ottomans, and it took pretty much all of the HRE, Central and Eastern Europe to stop the Ottomans from conquering Europe.)

Arabs, Levantines, and Afghanis are still pretty fucking good at asymmetric guerilla warfare in deserts and mountains as well as light and mounted infantry tactics. ISIL carved out an impressive swathe of territory before the joint bombing campaigns suppressed their ability to maneuver.

>>34107503
then why have they never been able to even touch israel?

>>34104656
Training, not aircraft

arabs and niggers.

>>34105035
That doesn't matter when they are arabs, you can't make a whip out of shit.

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>>34104697
This would be true when these tactics would be used against underdeveloped countries one by one.
The six day war really showed Israel really is "hot shit at war"

I probably dislike Israel as much as you do but I do recognize it is the only competent country in the region.

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You burgers are ungrateful, just be happy that your country's best fighter is pic related.
Also tanks.

The image text is actually pretty much spot on. Soviet jets were given out like candy to client states without the resources to train pilots, and they never fought over the Russian SAM network they were designed to compliment.

Most importantly though the Russian jets often stayed in service long after they stopped being effective. The MiG 21 first flew at the same time as the fucking Delta Dart. How would a Delta Dart have fared in the Six Day War? Probably not well.

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>be Canada
>try to make a cool interceptor
>America wants it gone so we buy their planes
>Liberals want it gone because they're a bunch of protocucks
>Soviets have totally infiltrated the program
>program gets shut down for (((reasons)))
>cancelling the program bankrupts Avro Canada and destroys our aviation industry
>it still hasn't recovered
>plane flies in Soviet service to this day as the MiG 25
>America ended up shitting their pants over the MiG 25 (mistaking it for a dogfighter) and designing the F-15 to counter it
RIP Avro Arrow

>>34108107

>Most importantly though the Russian jets often stayed in service long after they stopped being effective. The MiG 21 first flew at the same time as the fucking Delta Dart. How would a Delta Dart have fared in the Six Day War? Probably not well.

The Six Day War was before Israel enjoyed US patronage, and so the IAF was made up of French aircraft, with their best aircraft being the Mirage III, which shared the year of its first flight with the MiG-21, 1956

>>34104656
hypothetical situations that never happened but we still pat ourselves on the back as a win?

>>34104656
>how can /k/ explain this?

>shittier planes overall
>inbred arab/whatever pilots
>shittier maintenance
>shittier tactics
>shittier monkey models
It's extremely simple. Why do we have this thread monthly? Also, putler already replaced everything in the pic so it's kind of a moot point if you're talking about modern times.

>>34107422
>>34107495
And what difference does it make?

>>34108272
Israeli here, and as much as I would want to agree with you and pat myself on the back, I am too honest.
6 day war doesn't count when talking about air superiority because the IAF BTFOed the egyptian air bases within the first few hours of the war, rendering the egyptian air force null. you can't fairly use the six day war as an example.

>>34104656
Better trained pilots 9 times outa ten.

>>34104697
Majority of the isrealis that fought durring the independence/creation of isreal were all ww2 vetrens or had british american training and supplies

So really it was one sided war also arabs seem to be dumb fucks that dont know anything

It was more like european educated folks vs gaot herders that have zero education alsmost like zulus vs the british

>>34104656
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbDvpruZrEo
Right side would not began operation if there is a chance of left side to win. Obvious.

>>34108321
>It's extremely simple. Why do we have this thread monthly?
It is a welcoming change to the weekly to daily 'russian X is better then western Y, western BTFO forever, when will they recover'-threads.

>>34107503
Western Europe dgaf about the Ottomans cause they were weakening their potential direct ennemies.
Only when they saw colonial opportunities that they joined the muuuh christian Europe bandwagon

>>34108650
Wrong.

The Israelis only received American assistance during the last parts of the yom kippar war in 73, due to nuclear blackmail.

All the previous conflicts? All Israel on its own.

>>34108142

Avro was good but never as good as canucks say it was.

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>>34106281
>ah yes let me tell you of glorious flying machine, pioneered by comrade Boris Aeronov

>>34108599

I'm fairly familiar with the war (though most of what I know I got from Jeremy Bowen's Six Days). My point was more that the "stat padding" wasn't for US aircraft, but for French. I'm fully aware that the IAF had not just been planning but rehearsing for that opening first strike since 1956.

>>34109013
Diodn't you hear about that guy named Alberto Santos-Dumont.He got famous making machines that flew without the need of catapults in one of the most populous cities of Earth in the early 1900s.

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>>34107470

>>> Two minutes had passed by now and both Mirages and MiG-21s were low on fuel and starting to depart the combat zone. Avihu Bin-Nun spotted one such MiG flying at 1,000–2,000 feet with 117 Squadron's Koren and Richter on his tail. Richter had launched a Shafrir 2 missile at the MiG, yet the distance was too great and the missile fell harmlessly to the ground. Koren also attempted a missile launch, only to discover that he had jettisoned his missiles along with his fuel tanks when he entered the battle. Koren was closing into cannon range when an AIM-7 Sparrow passed him by. It struck its target, disintegrating it to bits and killing pilot Kamenev. The missile had been launched by Avihu Bin-Nun and Shaul Levi:

>>" Suddenly we found ourselves, me and my number 2, along with a lone 117 Squadron jet, pursuing a MiG flying at low level and almost at the speed of sound. As we saw it, the biggest threat was that the 117 pilot would claim our MiG. We launched a "Sparrow", though one shouldn't at that altitude and in those conditions. Just so that 117 wouldn't get him."


> Glorious kike bants that involves killing a slav as if sport

Pic related is the only way I can describe my emotions of this.

>>34108107
>How would a Delta Dart have fared in the Six Day War?
Probably quite well considering the USAF found the F-106 was marginally better at air to air combat than the F-4.

>>34108612
Not entirely the case. Most widely used slavshit had quite a few problems even when you ignore the horrifically poor training pilots often received.

>MiG-21
Roughly the same performance as the F-104, complete with all the failings, but with terrible ergonomics for the pilot.

>MiG-23
Poor cockpit visibility, absurdly high pilot workload (pilot is expected to fly the plane, manage radar-guided missiles, and work wing-sweep all alone), complete with engine quality issues on early variants that meant fan blades were going to shear off under high-G maneuvers and kill the engine.


The MiG-23 in particular is probably the worst slavshit to ever see widespread service. The Ethiopians, who had arguably the best trained pilots in Africa at the time (and flew F-5Es), transitioned to MiG-23s in 1978 and suddenly crash rates skyrocketed. Shit conversion training on the part of the Soviets may have been partly to blame, but the MiG-23 was just a terrible plane to fly.

>MiG-29
Horrific cockpit ergonomics, uselessly short range, and previous-gen-tier avionics. Literally all it had going for it was the HOBS meme, and only very recently with MiG's major overhauls of the design has it even been a remotely attractive option for customers.

>>34107380
That's largely because the Vietnamese focused on attacking strike and bomber aircraft and ran away from fighters when they could, though.

>>34104683
What about the time Russians went up against Israelis and got their asses kicked?

>>34110723
Don't forget that you needed six engines to keep a MiG-29 in the air for its useful life rather than an F-16's one engine. If you're short on mechanic man-hours it's a terrible plane.

>>34110758
And even then, attacks rarely downed planes. Even the MiG-17 was faster than strike aircraft like the F-105 when it was laden with bombs, so a MiG popping up could force strike aircraft to jettison bombs and abort the mission without ever firing a shot.

>>34104656
no s-ducts

>>34107452
Think about it. How many people really get to sit behind groundbreaking innovation and technology in the form of a fighter jet, as trained warfare pilots, and don't shit their pants when they see another jet in the air. Can you imagine taking part in jet warfare for real? I imagine the looks of the plane are the last thing that's going to intimidate you when travelling at those speeds.

>>34107470
>>34110479
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_battle_of_Mansoura

>Israel
>good at anything besides sucker punching opponents
cmon

>>34108107
you mean like saudia arabia
they still have no losses with their f-15s
iranian f-14s ect

>>34110261
The Wright brothers first flight did not use a catapult

>>34106055
The performance of the machine relies on those who are controling it.

The wiki says that israel chose its best fighters (veterans) to engange.

The outcome is not a surprise.

>>34114464
And yet Dumont is considered father of aviation in france...the first country to actually record those.

>>34107984
That is not even a Burger Aircraft, Kiwifag

>>34114693
t. slavaboo

and how much manpower did israel have to tap into compared to the USSR at the time?

slav losers are always bark and no bite

>BUH BUH BUH THESE EGYPTIANS SUCH UNTRAINED CYKA I AM OF GOINGS TO TEACH HOW TO FLYING

slav shits can't fly and their planes are shit. Try some better damage control you slavaboo fucking turd

>>34104656
3rd worlders fail at dogfighting with cheap russian planes. Some combat losses were against the same plane.

>>34111635
>Israeli fighter shoots down a Russian/Soviet attacker w/ BVR and without warning when it's go around passes the border for a few seconds.

Not an argument. It was pilot error not worth an international incident.

>>34114108
when did saudi f15s fight anyone with air assets? they even got btfo by shitty SAMs manned by sandal wearing khat chewing Houthis...

>>34115214
gulf war 1

>>34104691
Shame that it's only air to air they are talking about

>>34104691
>>34106055
>>34107422
>>34108142


I want /simg/ to leave

>>34115125
>>Israeli fighter shoots down a Russian/Soviet attacker w/ BVR and without warning when it's go around passes the border for a few seconds.

What the fuck are you talking about?
See>>34106055

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>>34115076
>That chapter in Viper Pilot about training Egyptians and the various near death experiences caused by normal everyday flying

>>34107984
Is this a super tucano?
HOLY SHIT!
This is for real man!