Modern Heavy Infantry

>>34043441

You wouldn't HAVE to pack yourselves together shoulder to shoulder like they did in the old days making yourself an open target for explosive, but even WITH the added weight, wouldn't the ability to move through enemy fire make you more maneuverable than an unarmored target weighing less?

Could heavy infantry conceivably make a return given sufficient advances in armor?

A .50 BMG API, which is an old fucking design at this point, can pierce over an inch of hardened steel. Steel weighs 4.65 ounces/in3.
A 12x12x1" plate of steel would weigh 41.85 lbs and that's not even remotely enough to protect a person.
The amount it costs you to make strong, protective armor is significantly higher than the cost of the bullets that can pierce it. The best defense against being shot is not being shot at all.

How much do you think it'll cost to make armour that'll survive even a single hit from an 80+ year old API round?

>>34043552

Wait hold on now... check this out. This was filmed on the Discovery Channel during the early 2000's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYaSRIbPWkM&t=1s


Skip to these times so you don't have to watch it all

1:16 - 1:50

Armor piercing rounds tearing through steel, as you mentioned.

3:12 - 4:00

Firing same rounds at the Dragon Skin.... nothing.

This shit was OUT ten years ago... but it AND it's creator have since disappeared.

>>34043441
>otherwise why the fascination with xenophobic racial politics and things that explode?
Bait thread is bait.

Also it was never adopted because it sucks.

>>34043574
>This shit was OUT ten years ago
So were ESAPIs that do that same thing. Stopping intermediate rounds isn't hard. Other dude was talking about heavy machine guns, which definitely would be brought out against a formation of your "heavy infantry".

>but it AND it's creator have since disappeared.
He's bankrupt and in the poor house. Of course there's nothing on the internet about him.

>>34043584

It was never adopted because the United States military is beholden to it's contractors and they weren't interested in the competition, so the pawns in the field got their lives traded out for profit just like everything else that breathes and grows on planet earth. There are American's buried in the earth right now that would have survived had they been wearing Dragon Skin.

>>34043609
Not to mention recoilless rifles, RPG's and basically any other anti-tank weapon.

>>34043620

Or grenades... or IED's... Look, I'm not saying they are invulnerable, but wouldn't being that much more resilient than a guy in a flak jacket be a potentially potent force multiplier?

File: StrawMan2.jpg (91KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 600x450px

>>34043618
Like I said, this is a bait thread. That said, you (or the persona you have in this thread) have preconceived opinions about things you don't know anything about being colored by your own Alex Jones tier beliefs about politics.

>There are American's buried in the earth right now that would have survived had they been wearing Dragon Skin.
Considering the IOTV has the more coverage than DS and is actually rated to stop M2 AP ammo, (whereas DS only stops standard FMJ threats from intermediate cartridges), and most deaths caused in the last 16 years have been from IEDs I very much doubt your very dramatic and hyperbolic statement.

The video you posted is misleading, as the ammo may be "steel core" but it is a mild steel and not rated as AP.

>>34043620
All standard arms you will find on a battlefield, even an asymmetric one like what soldiers find themselves on today.

>>34043648
>but wouldn't being that much more resilient than a guy in a flak jacket
See pic related

>>34043618
That's an awfully bold statement, and one that is also false.

current body armor is as strong, and significantly lighter that lapping small plates.
(something like 47 pounds to 25 or so with EXACTLY the same rating)

>>34043441
those two cali bank robbers valiantly demonstrated the capacity for having a shock troop corps. where you've effectively turned every enemy soldier in a platoon ineffective excluding their grenadiers, or machine gun teams. Be great for pushes into towns and villages. However, knowing how and where to use them would be something the army would never figure out.


Of course if you fielded your ENTIRE army with heavy infantry, you'd not gain anything further from it, as your enemy would simply field better weapons at a fraction of the cost, and a fraction of the equipment load.

>>34043659

>Alex Jones tier beliefs about politics.

I don't think accusing the military industrial complex of being more interested in the bottom line than a soldier's life is that far-fetched.

This is a list of ammunition fired at (and repelled by) DS.

5.56 mm 40 gr LeMas Urban Warfare (using a moly coated Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet) with a 3,718 feet (1,133 m) per second average velocity.
5.56 mm M855 62 gr FMJ with a 3,054 feet (931 m) per second average velocity.
7.62×39mm M43 123 gr steel-core FMJ with a 2,307 feet (703 m) per second average velocity.
.30-06 M2 150 gr FMJ with a 2,736 feet (834 m) per second average velocity.
All of the above ammo was successfully stopped by both armor systems in this testing, with no armor failures or penetrations, even after receiving multiple hits.

Now, I'm no expert, but that sounds alot better than a steel plate (interceptor).

>>34043662

>However, knowing how and where to use them would be something the army would never figure out.

You give military men cool new toys, it's only a matter of time before one of them figures out how to use them.

>>34043727
I'm not talking about G.I, I'm talking about officers.

sending G.I into the mountains with an equipment load of 150 Lbs is much more likely to result in casualties than simply not taking body armor or even a helmet. Which they totally fucking do.

I was also made to carry an extra barrel for my machinegun while only having to carry 600 rounds.

There's plenty of other stupid shit, but that's just what came to mind right now.

>>34043662
>those two cali bank robbers
Were up against cops with .38 revolvers, 9x19 pistols and 12 gauge shotguns. Not exactly the same as what you'd face in war. Also, the only ones who died in that whole ordeal were the perps. They had low mobility (not exactly "shock" troops) and were extremely ineffective.

This is like talking about sex with a virgin.

>>34043743

First of all, thank you for your service. I like to say that whenever I get the opportunity. It's the least I can do.

Now that that's out of the way, let's get back to my ignorance. I really DON'T know what I'm talking about, but I can THINK and I can connect dots.

Obviously, weighing 150 pounds sucks. Also, being hot and suffocating sucks - so being a heavy infantrymen running around for extended periods of time is out.

That's why knights rode horses.

I had the thought randomly, and I put it forward to your submission, that when dealing with rugged terrain and guerrillas IN said rugged terrain, could the horse potentially make a comeback? I mean, being in a humvee is obviously superior, but not in the hills.

If you were riding around on a donkey or some fucking thing, wouldn't that have made your life easier?

>>34043763
Nigger, body armor stops AP intermediate calibers. It was a demonstration of philosophy not an end all be all proof of conception.

The argument can be made, but not concluded from my statement. Therefore you're a nigger who can't into reasonable debate or even simple logic.

>>34043763

Yes, but those bank robbers were wearing home made armor. A far cry from repelling "7.62×39mm M43 123 gr steel-core FMJ with a 2,307 feet (703 m) per second average velocity."

As I understand it, that's a pretty gnarly round. You don't have to be a veteran to know where the penis goes, just on how and when.

>>34043783
OP, you're getting too tangential with your horses analogy, because horses don't come back for entirely different reasons. A rather subtle goalpost shift, really.

Dragonskin doesn't provide *enough additional* protection, compared to standard plate, to be worth the cost of the "upgrade".

Even if it could take high caliber rounds like .50 (it can't) it wouldn't matter, because it still doesn't prtoect your arms, legs, pelvic girdle, or head and neck, and no body armor, short of powered-armor type shit will ever protect you overpressure from a blast anyway, whcih is the real shit to be worried about.

So anon, woud you rahter have a slightly heavier vest that leaves you too tired after slogging around to runto cover that will save you? Or do you wanna be fresh, and able to get behind something that *will* stop enough bullets to save your life?

File: 7c0a9c96a849d1c72c48eaa3cf79c644.jpg (85KB, 644x595px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 644x595px

>>34043828

Alright I'll back off the horses for a second. Let's talk about the "vest"... when I say "heavy infantry", I'm envisioning something with FULL protection (or close to it), not merely a vest. You would be COVERED in it.

And again, there's nothing really preventing you from taking cover either way. Specialized training, obviously, would be necessary just to handle the weight, but I just think that being THAT much more resilient than the average third world soldier could have numerous practical applications, that's all I'm saying.

I mean, it couldn't cost more than these fucking drone strikes that miss 90% of the time could it?

>>34043888
Again, the problem here is weight, it's one thing to assume that extra weight of the vest might be doable, but when you have a knee destroying 150-pounds of gear on your already, you're not gonna want the fullsize, hot, heavy ass bodysuit, that again,might actually make you slow enough to keep you from getting to cover, and also may still not protect you fully, when we talk about cracked ribs, or the level of armor you can actually apply to arms and legs and still be able to bend.

It's just not worth the weight, you wouldn't be able to function, let alone in actual combat.

I would also posit that the (false) sense of security that much gear could give a person, given the reality of getting blown up or shot at, would actually cause troops to endanger themselves unneccessarily.

The level of protection you're describing wont be practical, even if possible, until exoskeletons are straightened out, just because of how much shit a soldier carries already. The idea of up-armoring for s specific scenario is nice- it'd be comforting to the point-man to say the least, but it's just too much shit to carry around- the shit we have is too much to carry around, and the answer to your original question is "When we have powered armor, it might work this wel"

>>34043888
No amount of special training can keep your knees and back from blowing out, it even happens to people who lift for a living, inevitably almost

>>34043441
Mobility>Protection

>>34044026

By the way, I just found this:

http://sftt.org/blog/news/point-blank-body-armor-and-dragon-skin/

Fortunately David Crane, a military defense industry analyst and the editor-in-chief of DefenseReview.com, got to check out Dragon Skin before its superior qualities became a national secret. He called Dragon Skin the “future of armor” in an article he wrote called Body Armor Times 10: Pinnacle’s Innovative, Flexible Body Armor. In it Crane said, “Understand, again, that we’re talking about a unique and superior version of level IV body armor/ballistic protection, not your conventional, run-of-the-mill NIJ [National Institute of Justice] level IV SAPI protection. Pinnacle Armor’s unique Level IV “+” flexible ceramic hard armor will successfully take many more hits than conventional/standard NIJ Level IV SAPI plates, and provides coverage over a much greater surface area. In other words, it provides for more complete torso coverage, all the way up to total coverage.”

It's as I suspected... Mr. Neal is not bankrupt... he's working for the D.O.D.

No wonder he disappeared.

>>34044065

"A complete suit of Dragon Skin armor, at more than $5,000 per copy, currently costs about five times as much as Interceptor OTV body armor being issued to the troops. Inceptor armor is primarily produced by two giant companies, Armor Holdings Corporation, the current darling of the Defense Department that has more government contracts than a junk yard dog has fleas"

I FUCKING knew it. Our troops should have had this shit on them YEARS AGO.

>>34044065

" An operator working for a private security contractor dressed in Dragon Skin survived a firefight he claims he would have died in wearing any other armor. In a June 24, 2005 letter to Pinnacle provided to DefenseWatch, he said, “… we were involved in a IED (improvised explosive device) attack and small arms fire on (deleted) 2005. After the contact, when I removed my tactical vest, I saw that I had taken hits in the back of my vest. They were 7.62x39mm (AK-47) and they were inches apart. I was hit in the back (and we checked, if I was wearing any other body armor, I would not be writing this to you), as it were both low hits (below the typical 10″x12″ plate coverage). In terms of bruising, nothing whatsoever. I did not even KNOW that I was hit twice until I took off my tactical vest (this was after about 2 hours after the contact) and saw the damage. It was only then that we took a close look at my body armor that we realized I was hit twice by an AK-47. I had another ricochet hit around the top end of my back that may have caused serious injury to my lower neck.”

>>34043888
Like it was mentioned before, one heavy machine gun will decimate. Heck, a medium MG will probably do the job.

>>34043743
I left my spare barrel in the truck. We were mounted nearly the whole time, so it didn't matter. I also carried 600 rounds, SAW?

>>34044065
Bullshit. David Crane is basically a fucking blogger, he's editor-in-chief of a website only he writes for. Anyways if this dragonmeme guy is working for DOD his work is going nowhere. Even at the JSOC levels everyone is wearing conventional plates and will be for the foreseeable future. Very light ones, but plates nonetheless.

>>34043714
>>>34043659
>>Alex Jones tier beliefs about politics.
>I don't think accusing the military industrial complex of being more interested in the bottom line than a soldier's life is that far-fetched.
They don't get their contracts renewed if their shit doesn't work to the specs of the military.
>This is a list of ammunition fired at (and repelled by) DS.
>5.56 mm 40 gr LeMas Urban Warfare (using a moly coated Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet) with a 3,718 feet (1,133 m) per second average velocity.
>5.56 mm M855 62 gr FMJ with a 3,054 feet (931 m) per second average velocity.
>7.62×39mm M43 123 gr steel-core FMJ with a 2,307 feet (703 m) per second average velocity.
>.30-06 M2 150 gr FMJ with a 2,736 feet (834 m) per second average velocity.
>All of the above ammo was successfully stopped by both armor systems in this testing, with no armor failures or penetrations, even after receiving multiple hits.
Cool. SAPIs are rated to the exact same standard while being lighter and you don't have to replace the whole vest after a hit. ESAPIs are rated for actual AP (something dragon skin isn't.)
>Now, I'm no expert, but that sounds alot better than a steel plate (interceptor).
No, you definitely aren't if you don't even know that steel plates haven't been issued as armor since the early 90s. IBAs have always used SAPIs.

>>34044098
>Very light ones
how light

>>34044101
>An operator working for a private security contractor dressed in Dragon Skin survived a firefight he claims he would have died in wearing any other armor.

>Inceptor armor is primarily produced by two giant companies, Armor Holdings Corporation, the current darling of the Defense Department that has more government contracts than a junk yard dog has fleas

>>34044101

>All of the above ammo was successfully stopped by both armor systems in this testing, with no armor failures or penetrations, even after receiving multiple hits.

>you don't have to replace the whole vest after a hit.

>>34043888
how do i scratch an itch in that suit?

how do i pee or poo in that suit?

how the fuck do i access my athletic shirt pockets in the suit??

>>34044139

For the record, I did not make this design, but it illustrates the general idea.

>>34044065
This is bullshit. The way the scales break they don't even spread the impact out like future weapons implied, this dude worked for a PMC driving trucks and was never shot at, and if he had been hit he would've known it, from the cracked ribs and bruising.

The only true part of his story is that he got to wear dragonskin- that was already disintegrating and sold to his company by DOD in all likelihood, specifically to encourage their employees, who are perceived to be in danger, but are in no way combatants.

File: 1388717117034.jpg (239KB, 1198x821px) Image search: [Google]

239KB, 1198x821px

>>34043441
>you move in formation
Well that's pretty nice of you.

>>34044180

"They were 7.62x39mm (AK-47) and they were inches apart. I was hit in the back (and we checked, if I was wearing any other body armor, I would not be writing this to you), as it were both low hits (below the typical 10″x12″ plate coverage). In terms of bruising, nothing whatsoever. I did not even KNOW that I was hit twice until I took off my tactical vest (this was after about 2 hours after the contact) and saw the damage. It was only then that we took a close look at my body armor that we realized I was hit twice by an AK-47. I had another ricochet hit around the top end of my back that may have caused serious injury to my lower neck.”

This man's testimony is completely consistent with EVERYTHING I've read and seen reported on dragon skin... except for this one.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/files/dragon_skin_release_000121may07.pdf

The official U.S. Army report.

>>34044209
Right, it sounds similar to all the info... Except the actual Army report.
Because he's full of shit, and repeating the mall ninja crap he's only heard about the vest

Battleshipfags, mechfags, gliderfags, and now heavy infantry fags. I can't even tell who is worse

Is this the same guy who wanted airdropped heavy infantry with smgs and ballistic shields?

File: Lamellar_Byzanti.jpg (193KB, 1420x1202px) Image search: [Google]

193KB, 1420x1202px

>>34043574
>AND it's creator have since disappeared.
Thats what people do when they fail to bank on commercial application, and have to work for other people to survive.

While Dragon Skin is cool, the core problem is that it doesn't change what the "lethal problem" is, so it doesn't really address it.
Now, add in some flaws in the crafting(poor glue, one-fit is unfit, layered wrong to provide shock absorption beneath), no real manufacture quality, and false/forged/skewed statements in advertisement, and you basically got a product on mercy of the marked.

>>34044065
>Dragon Skin’s protective qualities “far exceeded”
That just means the biggest issue is shrapnel. At which point chainmail in a modern material is enough, assuming there is padding underneath.

The entire point of DS is that the lamear design means damage is always spread to 7 scales instead of a point, so it doesn't have to be as tight fitted or padded as another multi-layered solution.
The downside is that keramics cracks, so damage stops at where it cracks, instead of spreading, which is where the real blunt force trauma happens.

>>34044240

I restate my original assertion: Dragon Skin was never adopted because the United States military is beholden to it's contractors and they weren't interested in the competition, so the pawns in the field got their lives traded out for profit just like everything else that breathes and grows on planet earth. There are American's buried in the earth right now that would have survived had they been wearing Dragon Skin.

>>34044254

Yeah but you forgot that I wanted the smg's bayoneted.

>>34044284
You sound like Mike sparks. you make one half decent claim "mil-inf is corrupt", then stretch that claim till is breaks by making some other retarded statement like:

We should replace bradlys with m113s
We should force already overburdened infantry to carry even more weight for no reason

Even pol is less predictable and more intellectually credible

>>34044391
If you're the same guy, doubling down on the same ideas, you're just immune to reason given all the counterarguements that have been repeatedly presented to you

>>34044396

To me, this is just deductive reasoning. I ask myself: Why can I SEE something working as advertised, why can I READ about something working as advertised, and then am told by the military NO, it does NOT work as advertised? Why is the Government the ONLY source of information contradicting ALL the others?

And then it all becomes clear!

"nceptor armor is primarily produced by two giant companies, Armor Holdings Corporation, the current darling of the Defense Department that has more government contracts than a junk yard dog has fleas, and Point Blank Body Armor, the flagship company of DHB Industries that is currently in the dog house. They can both afford to make it cheap."

Because there's a lot of money involved!

>>34044437
You're missing the point. Even if dragonskin was made from angel's tears, and was forbidden because the nwo zog lizard military industrial complex wanted to kill American soldiers for profit, none of this would support your asinine case for heavy infantry

>>34044450

They don't WANT to kill American soldiers for profit, they just don't care if it happens while they make it.

>>34044465
The point ~>

You

>>34044450

And for the record, if there's a body armor system out there capable of resisting multiple shots from an assault rifle without you even knowing you've been hit, putting a man in a full suit of it is just the next logical step, heat and weight are just details to be addressed.

>>34044496
>>34044450
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

>>34044496
Every claim you've made in this thread is years dated, and was debunked by anons dumping research papers and test data in the ill fated smg bayonet thread.

There's no point rebutting ideas that you hold as dogmas, it's like trying to reason with a Stalinist or playing chess with a pigeon.

>>34044524
>ill fated smg bayonet thread.
was that the one where he thought heavy infantry with shields an uzi's were the future? lol such gold

File: 1469245248727.jpg (3MB, 2480x1772px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2480x1772px

Instead of wasting money on infantry you could just order another armored vehicle.

>>34044562
Don't engage with him, you'll just encourage him. Nothing you can say or do will change his mind

>>34044562
I do have a soft spot for mechanized infantry. you got missles, you got boots, you got tracked vehicles and anything you can tow, load up with. mortars, mines, hmgs. Nominally equipped with some sort of 25mm cannon. I just love it.

>>34043574
>but it AND it's creator have since disappeared.
thinking he has been recruited and the older models have been recalled due to its lack of shelf life in conditions other then a cool dry place

>>34044562

Yeah except armored vehicles can't:

1) Enter buildings
2) Walk up stairs
3) Drop from a helicopter
4) Maneuver in tight spaces

Also, armored vehicles are large, noisy, and conspicuous; armored PEOPLE are small, silent, and potentially harder to spot.

>>34044524

This reminds me of the climate debate. You have people everywhere saying humanity is responsible for climate change, and then one or two people being paid off by big energy to say otherwise.

Corporations own every facet of Government, and our soldiers are dying for it.

>>34044615

Nah man, the epoxy failure under heat stress is bullshit too.

"Both types of armor were conditioned for 12 hours at 170 °F (77 °C), then moved to ambient air for approximately 90 minutes prior to being shot. The problems associated with the use of inelastic clay backing material have been well documented; as such, the armor was secured to a life-size curvilinear torso replica made of Perma-Gel. Each armor system was shot a minimum of 20 times with five rounds of each ammunition type fired against each armor system—one 90 degree perpendicular shot, two shots at 60 degrees obliquity, and two shots at 30 degrees obliquity, using each of the following loads fired at a distance of 10 feet (3.0 m):

5.56 mm 40 gr LeMas Urban Warfare (using a moly coated Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet) with a 3,718 feet (1,133 m) per second average velocity.
5.56 mm M855 62 gr FMJ with a 3,054 feet (931 m) per second average velocity.
7.62×39mm M43 123 gr steel-core FMJ with a 2,307 feet (703 m) per second average velocity.
.30-06 M2 150 gr FMJ with a 2,736 feet (834 m) per second average velocity.
All of the above ammo was successfully stopped by both armor systems in this testing, with no armor failures or penetrations, even after receiving multiple hits."

Is dragon dildo skin guy the new mike sparks?

>>34044104
2 pounds

>>34044652
I got a bad feeling this is going to be a regular shitpost from now on.

File: misterbelding.jpg (196KB, 2000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

196KB, 2000x1000px

>>34043441
>core principals

DROPPED.

>>34044708
>>34044708
at least its not arguing about fucking battleships and their fucking worthless role in a modern conflict.

>>34044125
Or, maybe, the IBA and now IOTV offer better protection, and are reusable (since you can change out the plates) at a fraction of the cost of your meme armor.
>>34044132
Yes you do since the discs are woven into the vest you nonce.

>>34044642
So...it wasn't ever tested against AP ammo, so it never met the requirements of military adoption.

And people wonder why it wasn't adopted by the military and start spouting conspiracies...why?

File: heresy.jpg (151KB, 700x1690px) Image search: [Google]

151KB, 700x1690px

>>34043441
You don't understand the role of infantry. Guys need to be able to move. That means walking long distances, sprinting, going prone, kneeling, standing up again without aid, not getting heat exhaustion after 30 minutes.

Light infantry are already carrying enough shit, and the ability to move to and use cover is way more valuable than being a guy in a sumo suit. The "heavy infantry" you're thinking of is Mechanized and Armor. They ride around in their cover.

I remember the days when families would send Dragon Skin to their deployed sons in Iraq. Some units allowed it, others rightly didn't. It was not government tested or issued, and not suitable for the climate. It was a product from a guy taking advantage of a situation. A full suit of this garbage makes absolutely no sense. Also your conspiracy theory is garbage.

>you induce yaw (whatever the fuck that means) and shatter the bullet on impact

Yaw is a lateral turning motion. Deflection. Not shattering. Read a book for fucks sake.

>>34044833
Adding: EVEN IF this armor was as badass as you imagine, it would be a boondoggle. Movement and fire techniques make any battlefield puzzle solvable with minimal casualties. Don't expose your guys to fire. Use suppressing fire to limit enemy engagement. Use the rest of the entire fucking military to bomb their ass into powder. This bullshit would be needless expense AND get people killed.

>>34044708
I remember variations on this theme as far back as '11, it's not new

>>34044855

I don't know man, for a guy to get shot in the back twice with an AK and not even know he'd been shot sounds pretty fucking badass.

File: Fuck+Apple_9a5030_5139385.jpg (55KB, 500x504px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 500x504px

>>34043783
>I really DON'T know what I'm talking about
let us enlighten you
velocity of round is what kills armor, round size is 2nd to that with sheer kinetic energy, 3rd is harder / denser materials the round is made of , 4th is penetrative surface to force ratio a lot of energy in a small area and dense / hard material.

to be fair it's always been a fight between arms that defeat armor and armor that can defeat the weapons used on it
right now rounds are cheap and can defeat most armor
it's only recently that armor that a person can where has been strong enough to stop the kind of rounds used,
this started with a lot of people shooting smaller pistol rounds for cost and recoil, so the armor had less to stop most of the time (see the north hollywood bank robbery)
now the armor is getting better and can stop the intermediate rounds used in ARs and AKs
in a few years you will see it stop full rifle rounds regularly
but in weapons development someone came up with this thing called a tank and then they came up with anti tank weapons that infantry can use
so even if the armor you have on you can stop a .50 cal BMG it can't stop an RPG
--- it's always a trade off between level of protection and the loss of mobility from that protection and its higher cost, and higher mobility and lower cost with less protection.
---and ultimately the best protection is better tactics and strategy

>>34044918
People not knowing they've been shot happens occasionally, at least as far back as WW1. Its all in the adrenaline rather than any equipment worn.

>>34044950

If I got shot twice in the back with an AK-47 something tells me it would register.

>Yaw is a lateral turning motion. Deflection. Not shattering. Read a book for fucks sake.

So the dragon skin is DEFLECTING the bullets rather than absorbing their energy. Interesting. That would explain their durability and the lack of bruising or penetration.

>>34044923
Modern armor can already stop full rifle rounds. Look up the requirements for NIJ Standard 0101.06 for level 4 plates here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/223054.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjosLnPx4bUAhWLg1QKHUCEC3wQFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNHe-bJh0WrJN7WA6h4GUEIn1_sxLw&sig2=mxot-kdS8eWoIVbdY4P_HA


>>34043783
Btw this is a higher standard of both testing and protection than what Dragonskin is rated. Modern armor is better, the IOTV is better. You're taking a 15 minute segment of a meme TV show and using it as a basis if argument against people who know better than you.

>>34044629
What role can "heavy" infantry fill that mechanized infantry or light infantry cant.

You can airdrop vehicles. Your heavy infantry would be destroyed in buildings and would be exhausted on stairs.

Being slow kills on a battlefield. Also a vehicle can have more Armour and carry bigger weapons.

>>34044994

.gov? What is this you fuck am I getting set up again? Do civilians have access to this information?

File: 1479702363291.jpg (315KB, 2048x1365px) Image search: [Google]

315KB, 2048x1365px

>>34043459
>wouldn't the ability to move through enemy fire make you more maneuverable than an unarmored target weighing less?
This is the dumbest thing I've read in a long time.

>>34043552
>The best defense against being shot is not being shot at all.
This, and only this.

Brother, combat is about violence of action. Which is measured by the volume and accuracy of your attacks. Body armor is cool and all, but killing the fuck out of the other guy is what it's all about. Even that baddest ass guys with the baddest ass gear around still get killed. Only Zeus knows the victor.

A formation of dudes struggling across the kill zone is going to get blown away like dust by all manner of indirect fire.

>>34045013

Alright nvm, that's only .mil. Last time I made this thread some asshole started linking me information I wasn't supposed to see and then threatened me afterwards.

>>34043795
>Standard pressure 7.62x39 FMJ is a pretty gnarly round. It would surely shred all but the best body armor, which is where DRAGON SKIN comes in.

Like everyone else said. Stop posting about things you have no experience with.

>>34043441
Why not instead of using epoxy to hold it together like some high school art project, have individual pockets for each plate of armor?

>>34045036
Honestly what would make the most sense would be a panel with the discs sewn in that you then put into the vest as a separate component. Either standard plate sizes or BALCS depending on your desired protection level.

I'm looking at protection level IV plates being shot at. This is just a new version of the same old shit. Two or three shots and it's over. Reminds me of when RCA tried to bury FM radio at the turn of the century.

File: 1478881945135.jpg (632KB, 1013x1148px) Image search: [Google]

632KB, 1013x1148px

>>34045030
>information I wasn't supposed to see and then threatened me afterwards.
That's not how it works. At all. The only person at fault when classified information is in play is the idiot who made it public, unless you paid to see it.

>>34044918
That is not a repeatable experiment but current ESAPI plates are rated to withstand at least 1 hit with .30-06 AP or 3 hits by .308 FMJ (a far more potent round than x39) followed by 3 hits from SS-109.

>>34045181
Will someone just link the video of the owner of second chance body armor shooting a guy with an FAL?

>>34045178

I still have the images saved. He sent me a few links to armypubs.army.mil to explain us military tactics to me and then later told me that he had my ip accessing those files and I called entrapment.

>>34045194

I mean, I understand the concept of making plates harder and more durable, but I feel like "yaw" and deflection is the track we should be headed down.

Also yes, links please.

>>34045202
Legally he's the one responsible if anything sensitive got out. You aren't trained for handling classified information, and can't be expected to follow protocol you don't know. Unless you paid him for the info or got it specifically to hand to another country there isn't shit they can do about you having classified info on your private computer.

>>34044994
>Modern armor can already stop full rifle rounds
what you posted is the testing criteria and classifications
not the armor itself
and yes some armor can stop rifle rounds
it's also REALLY COSTLY

>>34045219
Well you're wrong
>>34045247
Yes, a testing standard for common commerical and military armor. That's what they're tested to and can withstand. Are you that dense?
>it's also REALLY COSTLY
You can get a HiCom or HESCO NIJ .06 level 4 plate for a couple hundred bucks. I have 4 and I just sold a set of Paraclete level 3s that weighed 3lbs a piece.

File: 1758272_01_plate_carrier_and_esapi_level__640.jpg (48KB, 640x478px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 640x478px

>>34045247
>what you posted is the testing criteria and classifications not the armor itself

Here's an example of the armor described

>and yes some armor can stop rifle rounds
If by "some armor", you mean the standard issue rifle plates for everyone in the military, sure
it's also REALLY COSTLY
This shit costs ~120 per plate as a CIVILIAN. The military buys in bulk. I wouldn't be surprised if it's less than 50 dollars per plate for them.

>>34045219
>"yaw" and deflection
https://youtu.be/waWoaw1yuEI
Start at 3:39 . Deflection isn't as optimal as stopping.

>>34044708
I unironically enjoy Mike Sparks threads.

>>34043783
What if we put a saddle on BigDog?

>>34045247
>what you posted is the testing criteria and classifications

those are the tests that people do to ensure that the armor can stop rifle rounds, retard.

>>34044104
4lbs for a standalone ESAPI rated plate

>>34044437
Except neither of those companies make the current issue armor (big army or USSOCOM) and havent for some time.

The problem with Dragon Skin is that the adhesive that held the discs together fell apart.

It was hot and cold weather that caused it.

>>34045219
except the idea that dragonskin causes "yaw and deflection" is a military-channel-tier meme. the discs are made of the same material as a lot of normal ceramic plates. The angle of attack of the discs is the same as a regular plate. There's literally nothing there that causes "yaw and deflection" that a regular ESAPI doesn't do.

>>34045219
>I feel like "yaw" and deflection is the track we should be headed down.
Are you even capable of explaining what that means?

And since you're not, do you care to explain why you make that assertion?

File: space_vagabonds__assaulter_by_ukitakumuki.jpg (426KB, 1400x990px) Image search: [Google]

426KB, 1400x990px

>tfw ywn see heavy infantry / shock troopers with power armor in your lifetime.

File: 1494791199085.gif (415KB, 480x238px) Image search: [Google]

415KB, 480x238px

>>34043441
>citations needed the thread

>>34049410
Unpowered exo-skeletons to support the load are a lot more likely than power armor.

>>34043441
I'm gonna take you post apart, one by one, to show you how stupid you are.

>I posted this thread awhile ago and got a pretty predictable reaction.
You wonder why?

>First of all, I want to say EVERYTHING beyond this point is purely amateur speculation. I am not an expert, I think I've held and shot a gun like three times in my LIFE, but I have an interest in weapons and military history so I like to discuss it.
Showing that you know nothing and I'm not sure why you're shitposting this then.

>There was a development in body armor not too long ago that piqued my interest... it was called "Dragon Skin" and it was pretty amazing.
Didn't know roughly a decade ago is not too long ago.

>Anyway, there was a huge controversy surrounding this stuff... claims were made by and official inquiries into it's validity on the field due to problems with the epoxy holding it all together coming apart under prolonged exposure to HEAT... now several PRIVATE experiments conducted disproved this, and there is the whole matter of Murray Neal and his follow up product Dragon Skin 2 suddenly DISAPPEARING and all of the old models being RECALLED... but I'm not going to get in to that because it's conspiratorial and I've noticed /k/'s patience for anything convoluted and anti-establishment is limited at BEST, otherwise why the fascination with xenophobic racial politics and things that explode?

Citations needed, exaggeration, and projecting.

>Indulge me for a moment. Let's assume that you could create a form of armor that followed Dragon Skin's core principals. You don't absorb the full force of the projectiles impact, you induce yaw (whatever the fuck that means) and shatter the bullet on impact.

One, the core principle for all body armor "absorbs" at least some of the impacting energy is stopped, with the bullet being caught.

Two, I refuse to believe anyone is stupid enough to believe that you couldn't figure out yaw means tumbling.

[1/2]

>>34049506
>Say what you want about the weight and the epoxy, you can pull up youtube clips of this shit taking an endless barrage of standard issue assault rifle fire from close range.

Didn't roughly two to four magazines worth of fire is "endless". You know what else can do this for a much cheaper price (not that any sane man would do this)? AR500 plates.

>This is what I'm getting at. So what that you're a little slower? Say you're fully decked out in this crap - hell, you've even got a damn shield faced with it... carbon fiber base with an armored overlay. You've got that in one arm, and in the other you've got a carbine of some kind and you move in formation. (cont.)
You wouldn't HAVE to pack yourselves together shoulder to shoulder like they did in the old days making yourself an open target for explosive, but even WITH the added weight, wouldn't the ability to move through enemy fire make you more maneuverable than an unarmored target weighing less?

RPGs, grenades, IEDs, molotovs, concentrated fire, etc. can all take that out in a matter of moments. Not to mention shit like heat exhaustion, fatigue, lack of situational awareness due to being covered, being crushed by numerous objects falling on or into you, not being able to fit in the your vehicle, not being able to climb up that hill, etc.

>Could heavy infantry conceivably make a return given sufficient advances in armor?

Just like how the heavy tank is replaced with the MBT, the modern soldier replaced the heavy soldier.

[2/2]

>>34043441
Solid idea but if you got sweaty in it, it had a lot higher chance of failing. Turns out we like to fight wars in places where you sweat 24/7 unless you're a split-tail fobbit.

>>34043441
Overlapping plates will be heavier for a given degree of protection by virtue of edge effects and the multi-hit capabilities are marginal versus the tradeoffs of the design

>>34043441
fuck you asshole, i was the op of that thread

>>34044284
Infantryman here
I guarantee if we all wore that heavy ass bullshit there would be more Americans dead than saved due to being encumbered in a firefight
Fite me fag

https://www.thebestbodyarmor.com/what-is-dragon-skin-armor/

can you use google?

>>34043441
>xenophobic racial politics

fuck you too faggot

File: IMG_1437.jpg (53KB, 562x600px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 562x600px

>>34043441
C'mon, you apes! You wanna live forever?

>>34043441
Why DO you have to WRITE like this? Is it some kind of AUTISM that I haven't seen yet?