Un-guided anti-aircraft weapons

Um wtf? We have no use for infantry AA since western doctrine is built around owning the skies long before infantry are ever deployed, so airspace around US infantry is already "a nightmare". If by chance we ever did need an infantry unguided rocket for AA, existing inventory (AT4, Carl G, etc.) all are superior to the RPG. The reason most aircraft die to unguided stuff is because the people who have guided missiles are going up against enemies with access to aircraft and the people who make extensive use of CAS arent going up against people with guided missiles. MANPADS have been used to great effect in Syria.

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>>34040343

This is sort of a special purpose niche. Major weapon systems come from a few counties with large national armies. Weapons like this would be more useful for insurgents fighting a larger force with air superiority.

However, I would like to see more of theses in civilian hands.

yea wat?

unguided AA hasnt been relevant since like vietnam

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>>34040489
>>34040535
im talking about a weapon as I describe for a un-conventional/second rate army not first world nations obviously. nearly any anti-aircraft system currently in use is either not very mobile, a big target or too few in number or in modern combat terms Dead. highly mobile and easily hidden weapons are the future especially as small infantry units are the staple unit for any un-conventional/second rate army

>>34040497
thats awesome, reminds me of the 200mm anti-air/anti-light armor rifle the iranians unveiled

>>34040636
*20mm

>>34040636
But why? Its so easy for third worlders and rebel groups to get an Igla or Strela, which aren't nearly as ineffective as you seem to think, so why would they want a man-portable shoulder fired Grad?

>>34040854
>Its so easy for third worlders and rebel groups to get an Igla or Strela, which aren't nearly as ineffective as you seem to think
then why do the amount of aircraft downed by unguided, slow, inaccurate RPG's outnumber loses by MANPADs over 3 to 1, now imagine if those RPG's were actually designed with taking down aircraft in mind and you can see my point

>>34040935
>then why do the amount of aircraft downed by unguided, slow, inaccurate RPG's outnumber loses by MANPADs over 3 to 1
Because of the relative scarcity of MANPADs in Afghanistan and Iraq, western AOs. In places where they are readily accessible (Chechnya, Syria, Cartel country, etc) they regularly make a killing.

>>34040343
>do you think unguided AA rockets are a plausible idea /k/?
Sure, you could just the existing distance fused grenades for weapons like the gustav and use that in combination with a distance measuring sight.

Even if it never shoots anything down it still forces the enemy to change their strategy and give the infantry more space to operate in.

>>34040343
>"So, who's the dumb cunt who photoshopped a GAU-8 on the shoulder of that sol- oh..."

>>34040343
>Given that the majority of the 150+ aircraft shot down over the past two decades, have been hit by unguided anti-tank rockets

What the fuck are you on about?

>>34040343
Is that alpenflage without the white?

>>34040343
>Given that the majority of the 150+ aircraft shot down over the past two decades, have been hit by unguided anti-tank rockets why hasn't there been an effort to make purpose designed, unguided anti-aircraft rockets for current platforms (like the RPG-7) or even for totally new platforms for the purpose of close range air-defense/denial.

Because those hits have been on hovering helicopters

What a dumb as fuck thread.

>>34043619
>Because those hits have been on hovering helicopters
>What a dumb as fuck thread.
Its not dumb at all, the US got helicopters BTFO by untrained Somalians using decades old slavshit.

Now imagine if you made a special round for the SMAW or CG that was designed with helicopters in mind. It could be proximity detonated warhead built with speed it mind that could also be used against infantry or building if you needed to. Even if this wouldn't kill helicopters are good as igla or stinger it would still force the enemy to adapt and change their tactics. They wouldn't be able to insert troops with helicopters that easily, the infantry would need to walk further and get tired (since they can't be inserted by helicopter) and the transport helicopters would need more gunship escort etc.

All that for a new type of ammunition that would cost a few thousand bucks at most, something that could be used in existing weapons system and also be used against other targets. Its a great idea.

>>34044002
So, you're proposing a proximity fused-airburst warhead for RPG-7?

>>34044055
>So, you're proposing a proximity fused-airburst warhead for RPG-7?
Are you literate? I mentioned two different weapons that could use this new type of ammunition directly in my post.

>>34040497
Thats the one that wastes half the charge from the back of the case correct?
what a dumb idea

>>34044002
>Its not dumb at all, the US got helicopters BTFO by untrained Somalians using decades old slav
No, it's still pretty fucking dumb. It took a literal city full of RPGs being fired to down two helicopters.

Also those RPGs had already been modified to airburst too- though it was a time fused. Still, even you should be able to figure out how inefficient that is as a weapon system.

Not to mention RPGs become wildly inaccurate outside a few hundred meters.

Next thing will be optically guided MANPADS. Rockets that steer toward the dark spot. Should be relatively simple to DIY.

>>34043606
It's a pattern designed at the very end of the war. I don't believe they ever actually made any though. Like those pseudo-DDR stahlhelms supposedly designed by Hitler.

At the end of the war the Germans were trying all kinds of really weird shit.

>>34044121
>No, it's still pretty fucking dumb. It took a literal city full of RPGs being fired to down two helicopters.
Untrained somalians with an average iq of <70 shooting old slavshit.

Are you implying that a trained soldier shooting a 900+ fps round from a carl gustav couldn't do it better?

>>34040343
This is by far the most idiotic thread i´ve seen on /k/ in a long time.

>>34045005
You haven't seen the battleship threads then.

>>34044121
>No, it's still pretty fucking dumb. It took a literal city full of RPGs being fired to down two helicopters.
Why the fuck do you even bring up rpg? I said SMAW and Carl Gustav, both of which have faster rounds then the rpg 7.All i said was that american helicopters got BTFO by rpg 7 so shooting them down with a CG or SMAW would obviously be possible.

>
Also those RPGs had already been modified to airburst too- though it was a time fused. Still, even you should be able to figure out how inefficient that is as a weapon system.
Which is why i said that a new round would be a good idea.

>Not to mention RPGs become wildly inaccurate outside a few hundred meters.
CG isn't.

>>34044969
>Untrained somalians with an average iq of <70 shooting old slavshit.
They had an extensive network of children with radios monitoring US movements constantly and had concealed ditches in alleyways to channel backblast so they could fire RPGs straight up into the bellies of Blackhawks. They might not be booksmart and they may have been mostly fucked up on khat, but the command elements of Habu Gidir knew exactly what they were doing.

>>34045005
Oh then you missed this gem!
>>34043441

>>34040343
>tfw nobody these days is innovative enough to give a fuck
>tfw world militaries are too fucking lazy or underfunded to even bother with an arms race
>would rather spend money on gender equality boot
>tfw even if somebody could get off their ass and design a rocket that got fairly close to enemy aircraft and then burst out a few hundred rocket propelled flechettes, no army would bother buying it
Seriously though, we have moved past the necessity for our cold war AA rockets, hell we could even more feasibly use high powered airbursting shells that launched tungsten flechettes to absolutely shred planes
Hell, we even have the technology now that we could probably get away with using modifiied howitzer shells with targeting systems

So say I'm part of Bobby Lee's Appalachian Militia, and Obummer is bombing me, is there any practical defence against that?

Or is it just game over unless I happen to have some rich Rooskie benefactors, or Leland Yee can hook me up with smuggled Chinesium?

Seems to me that planes doing bombing are simply too high up for any affordable or homemade solution, but I dunno.

OP, you're missing a pretty fucking major point. Most conflicts today where aircraft are involved are fought between one side that has both guided AA and aircraft, and one side that has no aircraft and no AA to speak of short of pointing an RPG at the sky and hoping for the best.

So unguided AA scoring more kills doesn't mean it's anything but absolute horseshit, it simply means it gets used a whole fucking lot more. If you want to compare how well the two works, you need to look into how many shots per kill the two types require.

>>34045083
>Seems to me that planes doing bombing are simply too high up for any affordable or homemade solution, but I dunno.
Thats accurate. No man portable launcher of any kind is going to be able to touch drones and bombers flying at 30k ft, let alone one assembled from home depot materials. Unless Putin mails you a Buk or you take out the bomber on the ground, you're fucked.

>>34044969
If you have trained soldiers with modern weapons then you sure as hell want a city full of them blasting away to do more than down a single helo with a lucky shot.

While we're at it, how about getting rid of all our ATGM and such and instead just having our soldiers run up to the enemy tanks and throw AT mines in under them? With enough people, someone's bound to take out a tank eventually.

>>34045083
>is there any practical defence against that?
Yeah, you put a mock up target behind a kindergarten and then you upload the end result to the internet. Bonus point for kids covered in dust/blood and wailing mothers.

>>34040935
Because they shoot aircraft that are stationary on the ground, or in the first few seconds of taking off or landing.

No one hits an aircraft in flight with a unguided anti tank launcher.

>>34043592
I mean he is right if by aircraft you mean helicopters. Which statistic generally count. Still drawing retarded conclusions from it.

>>34044096
No, the M82A2 is just a bullpup Barret. Standard .50BMG ammo.
You're probably thinking of a recoilless rifle

>>34044765
There are enough pictures of Wehracht and SS Soldiers wearing Leibertarn. There were not made in big numbers, at least compared to splinter, but they were made. The Bundesgrenzschutz utilised some of the stocks after the war and the swiss were so impressed by it, they invented alpenflage.

>>34043577
>8 barrels
>GAU 8

>>34040935
>then why do the amount of aircraft downed by unguided, slow, inaccurate RPG's outnumber loses by MANPADs over 3 to 1

Because the people living in third world shit holes where aircraft are shot down often can only afford RPGs. Nobody would design an anti-aircraft rocket for the same reason.

They only reason they have RPG-7s to begin with is because the market was flooded with them after the collapse of the Soviet Union.