Attack Helicopters in Modern War

>They only seem effective vs insurgent forces or otherwise lacking effective AA.
They would still slaughter opfor, it would just be less of a one-sided turkeyshoot.

>>34031865
That's because in insurgency warfare helos have to fly high to spot where a few infantry are hiding, but in PvP vehicles throw off A LOT of heat making them easy to target.

>>34031865

There have been numerous tactics developed for things like this

Such as hiding behind a treeline and only popping above it to fire off a salvo

>>34031865
The attack helicopter was helmed under fighting insurgencies. Of course rotary wing is vulnerable when your side hasn't achieved air supremacy. That's why airborne still exists instead of just replacing it with air cav.

if us combat aviation brigades were every deployed for war as they were designed they'd be real logistic pigs
requiring massive loads of fuel and ammo
they'd require constant interceptor defense
but worst off any decent opposition would have tons of manpads
it would be a real shit show

How tough are Apaches? Can they withstand hits 30x165mm?

>>34032069
LMGs knock them out
their quick and can raise and drop quickly though
also they can detect radar so have some warning

>>34031865
An active-defense system with hardkill capabilities would be ample way to deal with AA threats.

Attack helicopters were invented before manpads, and before sensor fuzed artillery

They are totally obsolete now, for that money you could buy 10 self-propelled howitzers

>>34032426
>Attack helicopters were invented before manpad
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fliegerfaust
Wrong

>>34031865
Everyone who is anti-attack helo is a fag.

Attack Helo's scare the shit out of the enemy, they are surprisingly quite, they carry a hell of a fucking payload.

Used in the correct conditions they are amazing.

Asking any homo on the ground- good guys love 'em, bad guys hate 'em.

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NOE avoids long-range strategic SAMs

night flying, recon, ECMs, pilot training and tactics, and a calculated level of incursion reduce attrition rate against short-range tactical air defense to levels where the gunship's outrageously powerful attributes are worth it.

>>34032069
IIRC Apaches are so thinly armored anything bigger than 5.56 can go through

>>34032069
Depends really, parts of them are pretty well armoured (namely the cockpit, can withstand 50BMG iirc) but other parts are resilient to 7.62.
Like most flying things, hit it with enough shit, it will stop flying.
But as another anon pointed out, its not there to hover still and take a beating, its there to use terrain to its advantage, then blow the living fuck out of things from a couple of miles away, before people even know its there.

>>34033302
>>34033330
According to the manufacturer, the entire craft can resist .50BMG with the rotors resisting up to autocannons to some extent.

That is at least partially bullshit, as the cockpit glass is also claimed only to be resistant to 5.56 and has been penetrated by PKMs in the past.

>>34032480
surprisingly quite what?

>>34033497
I think he meant quiet?

just use them wherethere arent any manpads
Problem solved

>>34033492
Which reminds me
>When you are so confident in your helicopter's armour that you sit inside the cockpit when testing it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpQ9AlRw4yM

>>34032069
Doesn't matter when they can engage a targets miles away. Ever heard of a longbow?

>>34033844
They're just upholding the tradition.

Russian roulette was, in reality, nothing more than the gun makers presenting the quality of their revolvers.
The whole one bullet thing wasn't a lottery of life and death but a way to show just how balanced the gun is since the bullet was supposed to end up down, allowing you to pull the trigger while aiming at your own brain.

The preferred method is NOE flight along with some ASE systems. All radar is LOS and so are heat seekers. I'm a gun pilot

>>34033492
its just plastic and glass, boeing is full of shit.
in the center between the CPG and pilot there is a sheet of bulletproof glass that could take .50bmg but nothing AP


>>34033302
wrong, the cockpit is armored, can withstand up to a 12mm

>>34032480
this

>>34032426
wrong and there are defense systems in place for manpads

>>34032086
>if hit in the rotorshaft they can be taken down by LMG
ftfy

otherwise no lol

we had one that took an rpg to the transmision, blew half the transmision case off, pilot didnt give a single fuck, he killed like 30 more goatfags before flying 20min back to the fob in a glorious cloud of smoke.

t. 15R

>>34034704
these are not thick armor plates
they will be shredded by .50 and normal AA gun ammo
small arms fire will rumple the plates and eventually score a hit beneath them
hitting the apache anywhere with LMG bursts (why would a recon/attack chopper fly so close?) would cause some kind of damage that will probably put the chopper out of commission for some time

not half as resilient as you'd have me to believe

>>34032069
>excrewchief here
ive had aircraft take an rpg to the main rotor blades and stay in the fight.
its also possible to take an apache down with an ak just have to hit the right spot. usually however we would find bullet holes in the blades doing post flights that had minimal effect during the mission.
dshk's we real threats however and anything bigger than a 7.62 has the potential to take a 64 down.

Helicopters are faster cavalry, fixed wing jets are slower artillery.

Being easy to kill doesn't change the fact that they have lots of firepower and go fast, which is why they exist.

>>34034822
the cockpit is protected by the fuel cells and armored seats and can take 50. from beneath, 7.62 however will breach the windows as the only armor there as previously mentioned is the blast shield inbetween pilots.

>>34034823
oh hey bro, didnt know there was another one of us here!

>>34034873
greetings fellow wrench monkey

saying that attack helos are useless because MG fire can kil them is the same as saying that cavalry was useless because it could be stopped by pikewall.

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i have a question

how are infantry supposed to defend against advanced IR targeting systems like FLIR and CROWS?

>>34035066
Cover like concrete and brick walls.

Concealment like glass, trees, leaves, and reflective mylar blankets under a poncho with an air gap between the user and blanket.

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whats this thing do

>>34035453
It's a radar. It finds tanks and other AFVs.

It links to a special hell fire that does not require laser guidance and is fire and forget, ripple fire.

It's a nightmare for vehicles.

>>34035453
its radar for detecting vehicles, specifically for use to fill an anti-tank role it can also be used to fly at night by detecting the ground

Apache or the Viper, which wound perform the best (targets destroyed to losses from ground fire) in a peer to peer conflict?

>>34035480
>>34035500

To add to this, they put it on top of the helicopter so you can look over trees and hills and stuff without exposing the whole aircraft.

>>34033302
>>34033492

The belly of the Apache is the most heavily-armored part of the helicopter and is probably the only part that can withstand .50 BMG. There is a video out there of a durka shooting an Apache crewmember straight through the cockpit with an AK.

The reason the belly is so tough is because that's where the kevlar-lined fuel tank is; the density of the fuel acts as a kind of armor. You see similar things in other vehicles (like the Leclerc MBT, which has a special auxiliary fuel tank in the front to help absorb the blow of an anti-tank weapon).

Was the m18 obsolete because it could e killed by any AT weapon of the day? No.

You just adjust your tactic accordingly, in this case you just stay behind cover and wait for some infantry soldier to give you a target. You don't fly around thousands of feet high and look for target when you are fighting a foe with real weapons.

Also apaches feel bad if they get hit by anything larger then a handgun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_attack_on_Karbala

>>34032465
Hah say that to de vincis flying screw!!