Explain something to me /k/. The Nagant revolver achieves a gas

>>34030525
The "normal" chamberings A: won't have enough room in the case for the powder charge and the entire bullet, and B: seating a bullet that far down even on a reduced charge can still lead to over pressuring the cartridge. This is exactly why 7.62x38r was developed

>>34030525

is the mechanical complexity to do this worth the slight increase in muzzle velocity?

The answer is no

>>34030669
>Won't have enough room for the powder charge and the entire bullet
What the hell are you on about? I'm saying you could do this with something like .38 special, and just push the round into the barrel past the exposed part of the bullet.

>>34030687
Moving the cylinder forward a bit each trigger pull is a very simple thing to do.

>>34030768
I mean, it could work. Go test it out and get back to us.

>>34030525
Not OP but I'm gonna jack the thread and try something else.

What about making a specialty cartridge and revolver that could achieve .357 magnum pressures and velocities, and had all the shit for a gas deal when using the specialty cartridges, but could also chamber .357 and .38?
I mean, the Nagant works fine with .32 ACP with a cylinder swap and I think we could pull off getting .357, our special .357, and .38 all to work together in a single fun.

It would be a reloaders dream.

>>34031557
Prove me wrong about not needing specialty cartridges and then you can hijack the thread on that topic.

>>34030768
try doing it without compromising reload speed or trigger pull weight

a nice trigger is one of the main reasons to carry a revolver, with some practice you can get quick with speedloaders and a swing out cylinder too.

Yes it is entirely possible to do what OP's suggesting. However, the reason why the Nagant worked was because since the case extended past the tip of the bullet, the cylinder only needed to move back a short distance free itself from the barrel & rotate. With a regular cartridge, the cylinder would need to move back far enough for the tapered end of the barrel to clear both the end of the casing and the bullet of the next round. It might work with an autorevolver like the Webley–Fosbery if just the cylinder moved instead of the entire upper frame.

File: would this even work.png (22KB, 1164x537px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 1164x537px

>>34030768
>Moving the cylinder forward a bit each trigger pull is a very simple thing to do.

Pushing the cylinder forwards sounds like it would be more difficult in DA than pulling the barrel back. It also wouldn't make reloading complicated.
Pic related, is this possible or am I just retarded?

If you want to push the cylinder forwards in order to achieve a gas seal, it might be better done with a long arm rather than a revolver pistol. Instead of a DA system it could be a pump-action system and that extra strength of a second arm can more easily overcome the mechanical resistances involved. Pulls back cylinder on open and rotates partially, then rotates to final position and pushes cylinder forward on close, cocks hammer on whichever. Would be a pretty short stroke.

Plus it makes more sense to include a proper gas seal on a revolver rifle since your arm has to go past the gap anyway.

>>34030525
How are you going to revolve the cylinder with the stretched brass in there?

Remember, the cylinder went forward, but it also went BACK.

>>34032204
You're gonna need a lot more than a little arm to lock a barrel in place for firing. With that in mind I don't see a problem with the design.

>>34032242
What are you saying? The brass is obviously pulled out of the barrel as the cylinder in the revolver moves back.

>>34032267
>What are you saying?
The post-shot cartridge will have it's neck the barrel. It's not just an ammo change in order for an ordinary revolver to be silenced, the action would have to go forward/backware as well as the usual rotate.

What I"m saying is the premise is has a large hole in functionality.

>>34030525
Gas seals are a solution in search of a problem. The extra velocity you gain is negligible.

To co-opt this thread, my 30 cal rifle suppressor just came in.

Two parter: Would this work? AND Where is a threaded-barrel hand-nugget sold?

>>34032289
It's not about velocity. It's about being able to suppress the weapon. Cylinder gap makes cans useless on revolvers.

>>34032350
That was an after thought, the original idea was to use that extra velocity to kill deserters and prisonners deader.

>>34032370
That was also 1895. Suppressors are the only modern reason you'd need a sealed revolver.

Although thinking of .32, you could probably seat .327mag back further in the case and put a threaded barrel on an SP101 for the basis of a modern hand nugget.

>>34032204
IIRC the Nagant has a horrid DA trigger because of what little it does push the barrel forward.

>>34032507
It has a harrid SA trigger and an impossibely bad DA. It's like 18 pounds with tons of travel and weird creep or some crazy thing like that

>>34031752
Fine then.
The problem is that the distance needed to press the round into the bore far enough to make a seal would cause problems with actually having a trigger and hammer than can be cocked by hand.

This is why the casing fully enshrouds the bullet in 7.62 handnugget.
It's also why the casing protrudes from the front of the cylinder.
It also adds the benefit of making an excellent crimp and I believe a 7.62 handnugget levergun (with a box magazine of course) would be fun as fuck.

Now answer my question anons: how much would you all like an updated 7.62 handnugget that can take its own proprietary gas seal round as well as .38 and .357?
I think it would be the tits.

>>34032533
Also, with proper polishing and tuning of springs one could alleviate most of the problems with a handnuggets trigger system.
Alternatively we could make the distance to seal absolutely tiny, and have the movement be combined with the indexing of the cylinder.

The indexing divot could be ever so slightly too far back, and thus the trigger forces into it and pushes it both forwards and into the proper position with little to no extra mechanism and stupidity.

>>34030669
Slowdown noguns, you can *definitely* do this with .38 special and .44 special.

.44 magnum can have 25+ grains of powder while a .44 special will use about 9 grains of the same powder. In the case of 44 special, that case is mostly empty.

>>34030525
gas seal revolvers
>bullet setback on purpose
>adding complexity and ruining trigger pull
>+30m/s

Yeah sure it would work with normal casings but you would have to mive the cyluinder by a fuckton where as in rhe nagant it moves only for maybe half a centimeter.

>>34032854
You've gotta remember that kinetic energy is 1/2m x v^2 so whike 30m/s is somewhat insigbificant it's not *that* insignificant. Or maybe you just pulled that number out of your head and i'm just sperging for no reason.

What about, instead of modifying the cartridges, we add a lip to the barrel and a gap on the cylinder end to fit into that lip when it's pushed forward?

>>34033639
Take a close look at OP — the Nagant revolver does both.

>>34030687
>>34032289
>>34032854
Gas sealing is primarily a safety feature, with velocity and suppression being added bonuses.

>>34034966
Gee I wonder how people carried revolvers for the past 150 years given how unsafe they are

>>34033221
I makes difference on shitty and low powered cartridges like 7.62x38mmR. And now that I checked it's 15m/s.

>>34030525
Because captive piston ammunition is already a thing

>>34035009
You don't think people have lost their fingers to them? Because they have.

>>34030525
You need to look at that mechanism again kiddo

Think for the first time. How does the chamber index to the next round if you have a casing go past the chamber and into the barrel.
How do you get it there I. The first place

Protip; the answer is it can't with a conventional revolver. Exactly why the nagant has a racheting system that gives it a ridiculous 20lb DA trigger pull

>>34035502
Lol fuck off the blast isn't that bad, at most you're gonna burn your skin a bit but if you're wearing gloves literally nothing will happen to you.

>>34030525
What stops from utilising the same principle but having the cylinder with "sealing rings" in front of the chambers?

Back then I assume machining it was a problem, but nowadays there's probably nothing stopping you from doing it.

The biggest question you need to answer is why fuck around with a gas seal revolver system in the first place when any run of the mill semi auto does it out of the box? Its also cheaper to manufacture and allows for faster reloads.

As it stands the only reason to have a revolver is firing rounds that cant be fired in a traditional semi auto or some kind of emotional attachment to them in general. In a realistic environment a semi auto will always outperform a revolver. And this isnt saying that revolvers arent nice or they are bad guns. They just arent the ideal choice if your looking for performance.

>>34035694
Because muh revolvers.

>>34035606
You are a fucking retard. Please go and put your finger on the gap and fire. Then when you get out of the hospital, watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nucg5VAff4c&feature=youtu.be

>>34035534
No fucking shit it wouldn't work in a conventional revolver. Also, news flash- the Nagant doesn't have a shit trigger because it moves the cylinder a few millimeters back and forth. To test this out for yourself, take it's cylinder out and pull the trigger, it's the same weight. Think for the first time.

>>34035694
>>34034966

>>34035640
You mean have the cartridge expand into the cylinder? That wouldn't get rid of the cylinder gap.

>>34035694
>They just arent the ideal choice if your looking for performance.
Their mechanical accuracy will always be better in comparison to basically every single automatic produced today(assuming the same barrel length and roughly the same bullet weight/velocity). It's not a huge deal but my autism requires me to correct you.

>>34035718
>You mean have the cartridge expand into the cylinder? That wouldn't get rid of the cylinder gap.
No, I mean that the cylinders would have conical "extensions" on their business end and barrel would be modified to accommodate that.

>>34035731
>implying the Nagant does not

>>34035731
The Nagant does the opposite, with a barrel extension, and it doesn't provide a gas seal.

>>34035720

And that is a good point but when your looking at the overall package the slower reloads, generally worse triggers on average, lower capacity, and higher weight outweigh a marginally more accurate shot. Its a pistol not a rifle. You pick the tool for the job and if that job is a handheld weapon for defense having more rounds on tap is such a huge advantage it blows the rest of the categories out of the water. And so thats why im saying they perform better.

But again i have nothing against revolvers or those that like them. Its just they arent the best tool for the job anymore except in fringe cases where you absolutely have to have a magnum cartridge in your pocket.

>>34035718
>.38 spl is basically .500 S&W

>>34035972
Please try it with 38 special and get back to me.

>>34036179
I would if I could. Would probably burn like a fucker, but unlikely to rip finger off.