Humvee vs MRAP

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bump cause imma bitch

>>34026825
Ok the thing is, its just a general purpose vehicle. Like, I dont understand why people are suprised they get shat on by explosives and large caliber weaponry, that would be like saying the allies were retarded for using the Jeep in WWII because of how lightly armored it is.

Humvees are for getting there, IFV's and Armor actually participate in the battle.

>>34026825

Between the two an MRAP would be better. But both would be destroyed by APCs.

>>34026825
>up armored
are you stupid? the Humvee is already so encumbered with "armor" that it's engine shits itself in like 20k miles, til DoD got their heads out of their ass and started the MRAP project

MRAPs are objectively better than Humvees now,

>>34026825
>Would a Humvee that is...

Fuck no.

Those things are death traps.

>>34026825
Humvees don't have electrical outlets. Mraps do. I need to charge my fucking iPod. So Mrap.

>>34026825
Well yeah you don't need a Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle to be safe from conventional mine fields and ambushes that will involve modern AT weapons with skilled operators that will rip through an MRAP like it's not even armored.
You don't even want an up armored humvee you want the fastest quietest off road vehicle you can get your hands on.

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>>34026825
They have different purposes.

>>34026825
Uparmored Humvees are trash. Leaving aside their continued vulnerability on the bottom, they were simply never designed with armor in mind. That means that the extra weight of the armor strains the suspension in ways it wasn't meant to be strained. Driving one up hill is a total battle. The doors aren't hydraulic, making them a pain to push open. The already cramped interior is made even more cramped with armor bolted on. And for all that, you get a vehicle that's still going to get fucked by a 40mm grenade launched it's way.

MRAP type vehicles (because MRAP is a class of vehicle, not a specific vehicle) are built with their armor from the ground up, meaning the suspension and engines can take the strain (as long as you toss a few additives into the JP8 to smooth it out). The interiors are not only roomy in comparsion to a humvee, but they are built with mounting modern electronics and radios in mind, which is a hell of a lot easier than trying to bolt all the stuff that doesn't fit in a radio tray in the inside of a humvee.

Humvees best usage in combat is when everything has been stripped off and they are rolling sans even soft doors doing fast movement and running away from dedicated fights. Even then though, an MATV-SF can do most that AND be armored and better armed.

>>34026825
Yes. MRAPS are clunky, big, slow and not tactical. The gunner can't even properly cover areas immediately surrounding the vehicle. The dismounts is the back can't learn the AO either. The MRAP is good against IEDs, but for all other. Humvees have alot less armor but can still stop RPG(results vary), SAF, and low tier explosives. They're pretty tactical and relatively quick, the dismounts can learn the sector,you can use them in tighter urban terrain...etc...I've used both and I like the Humvee better, but you're losing significat blast protection

>>34027075
How weak are you that opening the door on an 1151 Humvee is challenge? I've seen 135 lb Flip get in and out of a humvee all day. MRAPs suck in urban combat. They are impossible to use in tight muhollas like in Baghdad, you can't chase anything with them, and they're generally just a giant dick pain if you need to do alot of mounting/discounting, not to mention manuevering in little neighborhoods is a real bitch.

>>34027077
>The MRAP

What vehicle are we talking about here?

>[humvees are] pretty tactical and relatively quick
I see you've never had the displeasure of trying to be tacticool in an armor kitted Humvee.

>The gunner can't even properly cover areas immediately surrounding the vehicle.

There is a defilade guns on turrets can't reach, just like the one turrets on Humvees can't reach. And if you're relying on the turret to be shooting ground targets within 10 feet of the humvee, you dun goofed. At that point the gunner ought to be tossing grenades and 9mm rounds at the encroaching Zulu hoards.

>>34027111
>How weak are you that opening the door on an 1151 Humvee is challenge?
I hate the crutch of "Make due debber doge!" whenever a flaw in military equipment gets pointed out. The non-hydraulic armored doors are a downside, especially if the humvee happens to be parked perpendicular on a slope.

>MRAPs suck in urban combat

What vehicle are we talking about? (Asking AGAIN).

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>>34026825

>>34026825
Neither option is meant to fight a conventional war. The up-armored humvee was an expedient, and the MRAP the specialist vehicle for that expedient situation. So the up-armored humvee would be better, if only because you can take the armor off and have it serving as a utility vehicle far from the front lines, like it was intended to.

>>34027121
The Caymans and Buffalo's are what I've used. I've also been on too many patrols to count inside of an 1151. We've snuck up on people at night time in the muhollas, as well as chased people with 1151s. Impossible with pretty much any MRAP variation. The main gun in a humvee can't reach that defilade, but the gunner can easily lean out and defend the side with his M4. You can't even see everything next to the truck perched on top of a Cayman or Buffalo

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>>34029220
>>34027121

It's not the best armor in the world and it can fail to certain weapon systems, but I've seen it save some lives that's for sure. Alot of luck involved as always

>>34029220
Well, there you go. You're comparing a troop transport MRAP and a Category 3 clearing MRAP (which is IIRC the biggest MRAP in inventory) to a humvee.

Not all MRAPs are made equal, and those ones were not meant to do what humvees do.

MATVs, MATV-SFs, and even MaxxPros do what humvees do, but with armor and better interiors.

>Impossible with pretty much any MRAP variation
I've used the MATV and been with MaxxPros and they can quite handily accomplish this. For sneaking, they have two advantages over 1151s (I've used 1114s and FRAG-5s, but it's all the same shit). They can climb hills uparmored humvees struggle with, they can go moderately fast over uneven terrain that would stick down an armored humvee (bumpy ride, but doable), and they have provisions to mount interior thermal cameras and flip down screens for better visibility while driving in blackout. I've never seen a thermal screen system in a Humvee, and can only imagine how terribly cramped it would be. The situational awareness provided makes the only way of wearing NODs and driving seem laughably outdated. Especially if you have a gyrocam that a trooper in the back can use to watch 360 as the truck is driving.

You made due with a 1151, but there is a reason the literally aren't allowed outside the wire anymore.

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>>34029267
A lot of shit happens, but since you're hung up on manuverability for survivability, I'll tell you now that an uparmored Humvee is not outrunning an MATV in combat.

You've had first hand experience with a small slice of vehicles that classify as MRAPs, but you've got to understand that one ones used as Humvee replacements are not the lumbering long trucks you know.

>>34026999
this

>>34029346
>You made due with an 1151.
Because it did a better job in Baghdad. We had Maxxpros too at the time, but they're too big and not tactical a bit. Maxxpros, Caymans, 1151s, and Bradley's is what I've been in. No Buffalo's, dunno why I listed that. But yes I'm giving you my experiences, of course it's not a one size fits all model. The Maxxpros also ripped down EVERY utility wire hanging in the muhollas, on top of being slow and hard to manuever. Takes forever mounting and dismounting as well. We didn't have MATVs this was 2007. MRAPS were just starting to be phases into line unit. I was Army too btw, not Muhreen. But yes from my personal experience manuevering is important, especially if you're trying to close with and destroy. Like I said I've been in "high speed" chases thru tight neighborhoods with 1151s. We've strait rolled on badguys in the middle of the night because they didn't hear the hmvv until it was too late, I've also been in rural areas where I understood the benefits of having the MRAPs because of DBIED. I didn't know 1151s have been banned from missions haha, feels good to be old school

>>34026999
That's retarded you still want basic protection against SAF AND RPGs which will clean thru thin skin hmvees. The vehicle is manueverable cover, not your getaway vehicle. Maybe scouts need quick vehicles but infantry you want some cover and mobility. Don't become attached to your armor, but use it smartly in cohesion with your sector and dismounts

>>34029986
That's extremely interesting. You used what you used, but when I used a 1151 I know that it felt like having a humvee with all the benefits stripped away. Moving to MATVs in urban terrain, and then Cougars for more open terrain was a massive step up in my opinion.

We disagree on which vic class gives better tactical espionage action, and I'll stick to saying that the MRAPs I used not only handled off roading better than uparmored humvees, but their enhanced thermal mounts and intergrated camera monitors for the guy in the back to monitor meant that in a night time op, situational awareness was insanely improved compared to a humvee, and it was very useful for sneaking up on people and seeing them first.

Not to mention that the real advantages of a v-hull against weapons that would have 1 shotted a whole humvee crew.

When it comes to humvees, the best way to use them is still fully stripped without even the softskins on them. That I can see the advantage of when you want to Go Fast.

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>>34030174
>Thermals
forgot to mention we had one Humvee and this might have even been an older armored 113 or 114 whichever the generation was right before the 1151s...anyway it had a "crow system" I believe it was called on it and it had a thermal display in the dismount seat behind the driver. Never used it I'm sure it was pretty cramped. I've never used anyway automated weapon turret, we always had regular old gunners

>>34026994
Are you serious? Conventional or USB?

>>34026920
MRAPs have better armor than most APCs in service around the world.

>>34030296
That's a CROWS yeah. The CROWS are a legit trade off that can be debated. I actually am not a fan of them, but see the appeal. All the vehicles I was in stuck with manned turrets.

When I talked thermals, I meant cameras mounted on the outside of the cab. The driver flips down a screen over his windshield like you'd flip down a sunshade in a civilian car and drives using the screen. Instead of having to wear a PVS while driving, you can just watch a screen with good definition.

In the back, a vehicle can have a gryocamera mounted. Basically just the camera off a CROWs. If you have 4 guys in a truck you have a driver, TC, gunner, and forth guy scanning with the gyrocam. It has good features like being able to record footage and being able to send the feed to the TC so he can see what his guy is seeing. As you might imagine, having a high contrast thermal with zoom let's you see a lot before you can be seen.

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>>34030368
That's fucking highspeed as hell. Would have definitely been nice to have Thermals to help PID targets at night and not having to fuck with NVG driving which is just downright dangerous at times

MMMMRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPP

The up-armoured humvee is a piece of garbage, it was cobbled together in the wake of the moronically short sighted 2003 Iraq invasion to reduce casualty rates. The first-generation of MRAPs that followed were also garbage; they were top heavy, slow, and just really not suited for any sort of operation other than "be a vehicle that doesn't die to insurgent tactics." Useful for the very specific mission that was taking place, but that specific mission is retarded, so the vehicles are also retarded.

Both are garbage for conventional war, but I guess I would take one of the lighter first generation MRAPs like the Cougar 4x4, because it was at least built from the ground up to do what it does and doesn't look insanely top heavy or over-armoured like the maxxpro.

The JLTV which is going to be replacing the humvees is basically everything the uparmoured humvee and early MRAPs wish they were. Well enough armoured and shaped to resist being fish-food deathtraps for towelheads, while still being light and mobile enough to have some tactical and even, shockingly, strategic value.

If I was fighting a conventional war, I'd want a combination of JLTVs and something lighter, and cheaper for lower risk strategic troop movement.