Improving 7.62 Tokarev

>>33991944
Look online, you are not the only one who thought of this idea. As far as I know, the biggest issue is that the rounds where unable to achieve any real accuracy.

But I am not against the idea of trying this myself. Maybe after I get some more experience loading 7.62x25. The biggest issue I see is the nominal .310 bore of most toks but CZs do have tighter bores on average.

>>33991944
Just buy a better gun in a real caliber you fucking poorfaggot

>>33991998
how is your chosen caliber at defeating armor?

>>33991998
I don't even own a CZ-52 yet. This is general fuckery, not an attempt at getting a cheap FN Five-Seven.

>>33991985
Any chance of a link? I got the initial idea from a weird loading on makarov.com, but that one used a 46 grain jhp bullet for some reason unknown to me.

>>33992096
A simple google of 7.62x25 Sabot Load shows every major gunboard has at least one thread in their archives.
The idea also goes by the name 7.62x25mm Accelerator or .223Timbs.

Like I said, it looks like an interesting idea but I have not have much success with x25 and handloading. My current experiments are with cast bullets and powder coated bullets.

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>>33992185
>>33991944
Yeah .223 Timbs sorta exists but sad that there are no youtube vids of it, I figured as anon said that the #1 problem is accuracy, 2nd would be sabots not getting clogged in the chamber. I know I want .223 Timb ammo.

>>33992468
What about getting a custom smooth bore barrel for the gun and shooting custom fin stabilized sabots out of it like a mini Abrams.

>>33992468
Just read up on that. I'm wondering if a 62 grain bullet rather than a 55 grain bullet might work a bit better.

>>33992185
I'm wondering how the feed ramp would handle spizter bullets vs the round nose ones the gun was designed around. I'm wondering if there are any .30 caliber fmj bullets of that type that would be short enough to fit. Personally I think 5.7x28 is half-assing it as far as high velocity handgun rounds go and I think we can go faster with something heavier.

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>>33993313
you mean .223? tons

>>33993470
The issue is that .223/5.56 is too long to really work in a handgun (no, AR pistols don't count). I know that bullet geometry has a pretty big impact on velocity, and I am wondering if just a change in shape away from the current round nosed bullets normally used for 7.62x25 might result in improved performance (aside from the absurd sabot loads).

>>33993574
.22 hornet or some sort of spitzerized .22lr projectiles might work better as they're designed for a short case length round.

Load 7.62x39 bullets into it

>we .460 rowland now

>>33993671
Would that even be physically possible?

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>>33993744
Wouldn't chamber as you would need a custom barrel with an elongated throat for it. You could probably cram it into the x25 case though.

I'd be interested to see what kind of memery you could get with 7.62x25 bullet loaded into 7.62x54r.

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>We also know that the CZ-52 is so stupidly overbuilt that it will tolerate some ridiculous loads
I hate this shitty meme so goddamned much, the TT pistols were able to handle hotter loads but through sheer fuddlore the CZ52, a 9mm that had 7.62x25 shoehorned into it with virtually no changes, gets this reputation as some sort of tank that totally doesn't have a compromised chamber.

>>33993824
I thought the roller-lock system really helped it handle hot loads.

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>>33993851
That sure as shit isn't going to save its chamber. That weakness is the whole reason that bullshit
>HOT CZECH SMG LOADS!!1
meme came about.

>>33993851
The roller lock is why people still spout bullshit about x25 being hotter than .30 mauser.
Compromised barrel thickness with worn out rollers on surplus pistols meant they would blow up with standard loads. Since people felt the czechs built better pistols than the russians they blamed the ammo instead.

>>33993779
>poorfags and slavaboos all across /k/ read this post
>autists try to halfass wildcat the ultimate nugget load
>2 weeks from now
>multiple threads of KB'd nuggets from hair brained autists

>>33993875
except didn't that pretty regularly happen exclusively with pink labeled surplus rounds?

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>>33993915
7.62 is 7.62 is 7.62

>>33993917
>pink labeled Bulgu """"machinegun loads""""
My second favorite 7.62x25 meme spawned by the CZ-52's buttfuck retarded design.

>>33993931
eh 7.62 slav is wider than the 7.62 used by humans.

>>33993931
Yes. We know. It was a joke. Thank you for the autism though.

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>10mm necked down to 5.7mm
when

>>33993824
Huh, I learned something today

>>33993263
If you put the same amount of powder into a shell and fire the two, the 55 will be faster out of the barrel. However, the lighter it is, the more tumble it'll get. I'm not sure how significantly it'll affect speed.

>>33991998

All that projection. Nothing in OPs post even remotely screamed poorfag

>>33993851
The rollers start wearing out after a stupidly low round count. Actually that's true for most of its operation components. Shit even the factory firing pins are notorious for being brittle. And once you find out how damn thin the bottom of the chamber is the whole thing just feels like a timebomb. Just a really shoddy pistol that should have made Czechs everywhere embarrassed.

>>33993940
ok, but there aren't wide reports of that happening with other ammo.

>>33994109
Tokarev SMG loads are a goddamned myth and you can find instances of CZ52s popping with just about every kind of surplus ammo. This is because it's one of the shittiest weapons to be designed East of Berlin.

>>33994127
you previously mentioned that many of these issues are from it being converted from 9mm to 7.62tok as an afterthought. Are these issues still apparent on the 9mm versions?

>>33994141
Since 9mm typically doesn't produce as much pressure, no.

>>33992082
Good, because they actually aren't over built AT ALL and the TT will outlast it. It's like people saying the third Gen smith's are over built. They arent, they're just chunky and heavy

whats the word on these??

>>33994109
You mean lots of ammo that were imported in huge quantities around the same time the pistols were and subsequently popped barrels.

Think about that for a minute

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>>33994210
my bad

>>33994222
5.45x18? cool if you're more than 80% cybernetics. otherwise you'll lack the precision to see any real gains over other cartridges.

>>33994151
Makes sense, I wish the 9mm barrels were easier to come by.

>>33994127
well I mean this is a gun that breaks if you dry fire it

>>33994094
Ah shit. I was already planning on getting the hardened rollers and improved firing pin you can get, but the chamber sounds like something that can't be unfucked.

>>33991944
MagSafe 7.62x25 JHPs claimed to hit 2100+ fps. Nifty, but I'd rather not risk damaging the gun.

>>33993973
Literally. 224BOZ. not to mention .22 Spitfire, .223 Timbs, 5.7x28 and light 9x25(90gr) already ballpark that number for you given COAL and case capacity. There's a .243 version as well, but unless you want to use .22 Hornet/TCM bullets in sabots you either lose case capacity through necking or oal restrictions

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>>33994278
Wrong image. I know TTs are tough, but eh. 7.62x25 is cheap enough up here that I don't see the need.

>>33994300
I know velocity kills, and you live in the lands of super heavy coats, but honestly 2100 FPS for your illegally CC'd tokarev is way more than enough

>>33994309
The TT takes a back seat to my G17 now.
>Or it will one I get a holster and full-auto backplate kit

>>33993973
Why neck it down? A sabot will get you more speed.

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>>33994318
I'd probably take 17 of Speer 124gr +P over 8 of some surp 7.62x25.
Also full auto is the ultimate meme

>>33994354
Eh, it's a fun add-on and it'll likely trigger some people. It's a select-fire kit, the giggle mode will be for innawoods fun, really.

>>33991944
so basically the concept behind 6.5x25 but with a shitty 'ap' 5.56 bullet instead of a 6.5mm tungstencarbide penetrator?
Also Remington used to make this for rifles

>>33994527
I would get a second slide then, if possible.
glad you understand the purpose of giggle tho

>>33993944
it's the same .310/.311 that .32s&w uses, and you can shoot that out of a .308 barrell

>>33994318
Do you live somewhere that full giggle is allowed or do you just not give a fuck?

>>33994642
Pretty much, with the bonus of not having to worry about my dog getting shot by the atf because ss109 isn't technically an AP round.

>>33994864
the latter

>>33993875
There were smg x25 rounds though

>>33994180
The s&w boat anchors? 5900 series and so on?

>>33994899
God help you if the ATF ever catches you.

>>33993824
>>33993876
>>33993917
>>33993940
>>33994127
>>33994180
>>33993875
I am in the army "reserves" here in Czechia. We used them along with CZ82s as "army's leftovers"and got a lot of info of them. While the CZ52's design's weakness really is that it was originally designed for lower pressures, the "smg" rounds are kinda true. Our 7,62x25 was about 25% more powerful than russian, adding insult to injury. This ammo was marked "7,62CH25MM". Later, in a bid to extend the lifespan, lower pressure ammo for the pistols was made, though I do not know how widely it was used. However, there are many records of those rounds blowing up TT 33s as well

>>33993779
is that x39 or x45,if x39 then what in the fuck is that shoulder?

>>33995856
The 7,62CH25MM ammo blowing up TokarevsI mean.

>>33991944 Either way OP, if you get a CZ52, make sure to carefully check the slide for cracks, even hairthin

>>33994864
CTG is our resident Canuck General undercover RCMP Constable, he's allowed to do crazy things and take no heat...

:^D

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>>33993876
>people still spout bullshit about x25 being hotter than .30 mauser

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>>33994319
>A sabot will get you more speed.
Please explain me the physics behind this.

>>33996024
A sabot is a type of French shoe, and the French have very fast shoes on account of running away all the time.

>>33996024
> Lighter bullet
> Wider surface area to push on
> Same powder charge as a normally heavier bullet
> Less wear on barrel from plastic sabot encountering barrel lands

That being said, necking down is easier to design and make. When was the last time you saw discarding sabot pistol rounds on store shelves?

>>33993779
I get the feeling there's already a Whisper/SSK/JDJ variation on this for making big fat low velocity .30" chamberings

>>33993824
This! The cz52 will literally beat itself to death when shooting hot Tok

>>33996059
Decently funny honestly

>muh velocity kills
>muh energy dump
Jesus christ read a book once you retards, speed doesn't mean shit if it hits a target and doesn't expand or fragment. Hence why 5.45x39 is a shitter of a round.

>>33996298
It's not about killing things it's about sending a message to barriers and body armor.

>>33993948
>failed joke

>>33991944
>use a bb
>4000 fps squirrel gun

>>33996630
>This vaporizes the squirrel.

>>33996649
moar like it vaporizes the BB.

>>33996805
Why not both

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>>33997057
>in this week's episode, /k/ hunts squirrels with a plasma gun

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>>33991944
>People will never make modern Glocks, CZ's, or Beretta's chambered in 7.62x25
>The closest we'll ever get is a Chinese Sig clone only available to Canadians for about $500 maple bucks

>>33997139
>People will never make modern Glocks chambered in 7.62x25

it's not like you can't drop a 7.62x25 barrel in a G20... It's not that hard.

>>33991998
cause u see son if it dont start with 4 it aint got stoppin powah, specially with that commie round u got there

>>33996419
Hmm...if only there were rounds that did this and also fragmented...

>>33997418
>Hmm...if only there were rounds that did this and also fragmented...


not a problem engineering wise. steel 9mm slugs will zipp right trought soft kevlar. now, if you made them from say 4-5 completely seperate petals that lock into each other, you could ahve them come apart after going through the armour and/or some tissue as the projectile is somewhat deformed and the lock brocken

>>33997539
It's called sarcasm dumbass, rounds like M855A1 already do it perfectly.

>>33998068
Does it fit in a tokarev?

>>33998663
I'm pretty sure NATO knew what 7.62x25 was when they chose the far superior 5.7x28.

>>33992548
Do this in some sort of caseless round, and we're in business.

>>33991944
Too much friction, too fast of rifling, etc

>>33999405
What about doing this with 7.62x39?

>>33995856
>Our 7,62x25 was about 25% more powerful than russian
Ya know I have a hard time believing 7.62x25 could suddenly become an intermediate cartridge in anything but a Ruger No.1 without the primers embedding into the shooters forehead

>>33994963
Yep, specifically the 10XX series.

>>33996298
Sure if you ignore the violent tumbling of 7n6. And that's only if you want to act like 7n6 is the only load they ever made for it

>>34000105
You mean like .220 russian, 6mm ppc and 6.5grendel

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>>34001033
>Violent tumbling
Wow wtf I love temporary wound cavities now

>>34001057
Not really. There's a difference between a heavily necked down cartridge and a normal one using a sabot. Also, sabot method would allow you to shoot high velocity steel core out of a normal x39 AK.