F-35 Undetectable to Japanese RADAR

It sounded bad to me. Digital. They have digital. What is digital? And it’s very complicated, you have to be Albert Einstein to figure it out. And I said–and now they want to buy more aircraft carriers. I said what system are you going to be–"Sir, we’re staying with digital." I said no you’re not. You going to goddamned steam, the digital costs hundreds of millions of dollars more money and it’s no good.

>>33982441
God fucking damn it.

>usa can make planes invisible

America confirmed for only true superpower because we have actual superpowers.

>>33982441
he's right tho

>>33982475
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/air-force-removes-weight-restrictions-on-f-35a-pilots

You only just became able to pilot them though.

>>33982514
>implying this is only a problem for Americans
>implying therefore that the average European fighter pilot weighs under 150lbs

Kek

>>33982503
He isn't though.
First of all, whoever calls an electromagnetic launcher "Digital" deserves to be fired themselves.

From what I recall on reading about the subject an EM launcher will save a lot of stress on air frames by being able to dial in a perfect amount of acceleration to launch the plane but not shock the goddamn thing to its core.

Additionally, it can be turned to different settings to launch prop aircraft and drones

>>33982566
>The pressure of steam is unchangeable
>Prop craft even needing a catapult

Come on.

>>33982534
Well, Americans do tend to have weight problems.

>>33982420

Planes are generally undetectable to radar if they can't take off the ground.

>>33983130
Didn't know that being over 136lbs was a "weight problems"

Are Europeans really that small?

You can't control steam the way you can control an electromagnet. I'm sorry, you just can't.

>>33983207
meant for
>>33983130

You're going to need it for future prop aircraft of increasing importance. Such as ISR drones maybe?

>>33983179
Fatty fat fat fat fatty fatty fat fat.

>>33983207
In the most literal sense, that is true. An electromagnet is controlled by altering the amount of electricity in it, while a steam catapult's power is adjusted by the amount of pressure you put it under.

>>33983277
In every sense it is true.
When you open a steam valve its pretty much open and no motors will ever match the speed of electronics to moderate that over time.

An electromagnet can be pulsed to pretty much infinite precision, pulse width modulating to say, nanoseconds per pulse with a feedback loop governing it.

I'm an electronics engineer, not electro-mechanical controls but trust me, this is well researched and backed by engineering.

Nobody blindly thought one day "oh hey let's make a big fuckin' electromagnetic catapult won't that be cool?"

File: trunp.png (557KB, 1239x857px) Image search: [Google]

557KB, 1239x857px

>>33982441
How is he so dumb?

File: OpoQQ.jpg (20KB, 465x446px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 465x446px

>>33982441

File: 1486500742836.jpg (135KB, 1024x575px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 1024x575px

>>33983378
Probably a combination of
>Narcissism/overconfidence
>Used to being surrounded by yes-men that wouldn't call him on shit like that
>Being old making him more prone to saying stupid shit

It's actually pretty entertaining if you pretend it's all just a massive running joke and not actually real.

>>33984279
Setting aside he was recounting someone telling him about the Ford, meaning it is entirely possible that person used the word digital.

>>33984361
I'm betting it was something more like
>EMALS is electronagnetic
>electromagnetic -> electric
>electric -> digital

Which, for the layman, does make sense.

>BBBUUTTTT "MUH F35 IS GARBAGE" DANK MEMES????!?!??!

>>33983378
He hadn't been briefed on it yet. He was literally spouting off shit that he'd probably just heard. Thankfully, if someone sits him down and tells him what's what, he learns pretty quickly. Or at least, that's what we can tell with his more moderated stances as well as his actions regarding Syria. And, in fact, his turnabout on the F-35.

>>33984983
>>33984279
>>33983378
HILLARY LOST GET OVER IT HURRR DURRR

>>33982514
Can confirm, f35 pilot here, they take away 3rd and 4th lunch and dinner from us

>>33983378
years of practice

>>33984394
its still stupid, even if half of the country thinks like this it simply means half the country is stupid

File: romney laugh.jpg (28KB, 560x375px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 560x375px

>>33984983
>Thankfully, if someone sits him down and tells him what's what, he learns pretty quickly.

kek, good one

>>33983130
>>The pressure of steam is unchangeable
No, but the force profile is. And with the steam cats, like in a firearm, you have a very high peak pressure relative to the overall energy transfer, which stresses the airframe. EMALS can get a peak-to-mean ratio of very near 1, reducing stresses to a minimum.
>>Prop craft even needing a catapult
S2F, E-2, E-3, C-2. The ability to operate aircraft that size is significant.

Also, EMALS requires no steam piping from the plant to the deck (reducing losses and vulnerability to damage), is far more accurately controlled, and requires less maintenance. So (once it's out of prototype status) it's an all-round improvement.

>>33985506
I meant if course that the pressure IS changeable but the force profile ISN'T.
I dun goofed.

>>33985426
are you with the USAF? here with the RAAF they lock us in the emu pen and make us run away from the emus from 3 pm to 6 pm. we don't get dinner either.

>>33983157
boo

>>33983251
manlet

>>33985506
>da force profile is unchangeable!

It can be done with mechanical means, stop talking out of your ass.

>>33984394
Gee I wonder what will be used to regulate the electrical impulses precisely enough to be useful?

Surely not--digital logic?!?!

>>33983140
>Over 150 lbs
>Weight problem for adult male
lolwut?

>>33985771
>talking out of your ass
You try controlling it then.
While you're at it, do the same for firearms.
There isn't really all that much you can do, short of wasting enourmous quantities of steam, and even then you have sharp overshoot peaks. Inertia and delayed response are a bitch.
T. Mech. Eng.

>>33985809
To start with, a solution might exist at the generator, as an intermediary between generator and catapult, or at the catapult it's self.

A mechanically simple solution might be incorporating resistance at different points of the the catapult's path.

inertia is still a problem for an EM solution and delayed response is fixable too.

File: 223plot.gif (57KB, 750x507px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 750x507px

>>33985836
>To start with, a solution might exist at the generator, as an intermediary between generator and catapult, or at the catapult it's self.
What generator? I was talking about using steam.
>A mechanically simple solution might be incorporating resistance at different points of the the catapult's path.
The problem is that with a steam cat most of the work is done at the beginning of travel, resulting in a high acceleration and stress peak. The design limits the work which can be done further on, with physical (adiabatic expansion) and design (open arm slot loses pressure shortly after the shot is released, plant limits steam allowance per shot) constraints.
>pic: .223 pressure curve. Steam cats have a similar profile, with high peak-to-mean ratio.

>>33985888
You could use the steam to act on the catapult in the manner it does a bolt carrier group instead of the bullet though.

>>33985896
You still have physical limits, and efficiency is a problem.
BCG is actually WORSE than for the bullet- you get a short, sharp shock driving the BCG, which then proceeds under inertia. A BCG is steel and can survive such violence, an aircraft is significantly more fragile.

>>33985948
Then generate steam with a better pressure curve over a longer duration.

MIG25 undetectable to Japanese radars
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Belenko
>You know they had the MiG-25s, they had ome of them fly over, and it was not detected by the radar. It flew over and everyone said where the hell did he come from? That’s stealth. It’s pretty cool, right. one of them flying at a high speed, low, and it was not detected. They flew right over the top of the deal, nobody knew it was coming. Pretty cool, right?

>>33986013
It's got nothing to do with the generation, but rather with the cat itself. It uses a 'slug' of steam to drive the piston.

File: 1486574877988.jpg (29KB, 499x500px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 499x500px

>>33982420
F35 welder here
Trump didn't lower the price by 35 million
First off, the price hasn't dropped that much
Second: the 4 million price drops were from process improvements not Trump.

But not being detectable by Japanese radar isn't surprising
Especially if they weren't looking for f35s.

File: a9c66ae9-c28d-4e7c-9585-ef45987f2221.jpg (36KB, 573x764px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 573x764px

>>33986013
>>33985896
>>33985836
>>33985771
how does it feel to get rekt so hard. Just stfu you're embarrassing yourself at this point.

>>33983353
Far to much hysteresis on coils that size if you are looking at nanoseconds. You will wind up with lots of induced currents in an em system which will be difficult to iron out but I have no doubt that they will.
Steam is in no way binary and has many methods of providing very precise control at the cost of space and calibration time between cycles. overall I would say it's quite ambitions but not overly so with the promise of lower operational costs long term. Please avoid talking about steam systems until you have read a little more.

>>33982420
Does it look cool though? That's what matters most for a fighter jet, because its primary role is propaganda and recruitment.

>>33986098
And you could change that design to reduce the peak force on the jet,

File: Eff thirty firve.png (370KB, 1115x786px) Image search: [Google]

370KB, 1115x786px

>>33982420
I guess that's an improvement, for him

>>33986660
Not really, for reasons I've already mentioned.

>>33986589

Honestly, the most useful application of EMALS will be for opening up the possibility of a non-nuclear IEP CATOBAR carrier. The possible cost savings if the USN can move away from 11+ nuclear 100,000 t supercarriers to a mixed nuclear / non nuclear XL / Large fleet are immense. Especially because it is much easier to permanently base non-nuclear carriers overseas (eg in places like Japan or Bahrain).

>>33982441
Better response than what Obama could cuck out of his mouth, same for Hillary

>>33986735

I doubt that. The demand for non-propulsion electricity on ships is constantly increasing, which means they need more and more powerful generators, which favors nuclear over diesel/gas.

>>33986844

just wondering, what has Obama said about the military/military equipment that's more retarded than

> It sounded bad to me. Digital. They have digital. What is digital? And it’s very complicated, you have to be Albert Einstein to figure it out. And I said–and now they want to buy more aircraft carriers. I said what system are you going to be–"Sir, we’re staying with digital." I said no you’re not. You going to goddamned steam, the digital costs hundreds of millions of dollars more money and it’s no good.

Include a citation.

>>33986098
You have the patience of a saint.

>>33985836
On a Steam cat the steam generation is done in the reactor spaces. Which means a ton of steam piping eating up space inside the ship.

>>33985373
imagine still being this ass hurt

>>33982420
with the eyes they have they cant see it 3 feet in front of them let alone somewhere in the sky.

>>33985497
Breaking News: Anon Epicly Fucking SLAMS BLUMPF more at 11

>>33982441
>>33982566
>>33985506
We don't need anymore fucking aircraft carriers.


Stop sucking military industrial complex dick.

>>33982475
>superpower
And what exactly are you fighting for? Your country's already lost.

>>33985799
So have... adult female pilots? Staying under 150lbs could be easier for them.

>>33987322
No, we need replacements for the 45+ year old design of the Nimitz class. The Ford class are a fleet replacement, not addition.

>>33986911

the new nuclear powered EMALS USS Gerald R Ford has a crew complement of ~2,600 (~600 fewer than a Nimitz), the 30% smaller HMS Queen Elizabeth has a complement of just ~680. A EMALS CATOBAR vessel of similar size and specification would not only have far lower construction & decommissioning costs, but especially if kept forward deployed would cost less to run as well.

>>33985809
The Germans did it in WW2, look up the V-3 artillery battery they were building near Calais.

Is this the official F-35 thread?

>The German Air Force this month sent the U.S. military a written request for classified data on the Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) F-35 fighter jet as it gears up to replace its current fleet of fighter jets from 2025 to 2035.
www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN18D13X

File: 1453603362011.png (244KB, 404x414px) Image search: [Google]

244KB, 404x414px

>>33986844

>Trump says something blatantly retarded and indefensible
>MUH HILLARY
>MUH OBAMA

Wise men don't feel compelled to shove bullshit into every gap of their knowledge. It's okay to call a dumb statement dumb, Anon. Even if that dumb statements come out of the mouth of someone you like.

>>33983378
>Damn !! How dares he not know as much as I do on a very specific subject !!
>His way of talking is too simplistic so he must be a retard.

The man went from millions to billions, doing what he wanted and then got himself elected president of the USA despite all odds.

If he is really "so dumb" but succeed despite it, one got to give him some credits.
He's a smart man, just not "book smart".

>>33988292
He's the fucking president. Above all else he should never make knee-jerk statements if he's not fully informed about an issue. Why the fuck does he not take advantage of his staff when he is ignorant on an issue?

>>33988292
>The man went from millions to billions
Also, he made far less than if he'd just put that loan into a medium-return market investment.

>>33988388
I love giving jews my money.

>>33988374
He hadn't been briefed on it yet, meaning he just heard about it from someone else. So he spouted off based on what that person told him. Unfortunately, said person was likely a retarded Congressperson.

>>33988410
>implying he isn't retarded when it comes to military

>>33988410
>Wildly spouting crap without looking into it first
OK for a college freshman, not OK for the President.

>>33984983
>Thankfully, if someone sits him down and tells him what's what, he learns pretty quickly.

and then proceeds to tell the russians about it

>>33988437
He's not a member of the military, so no shit he doesn't know how to use the military at an instinctive level. However, he's got several very intelligent people telling him what he needs to know and advising him on the best course of action. And by all accounts, he listens to them and very much respects their advice. For example, his turnaround on the F-35 after he was briefed as well as the whole response to the Syria situation, which was pretty much following Mattis's and McMaster's advice word for word. By any stretch of the imagination, it was absolutely the correct course of action. So quit it with your political bullshit.

>>33982441
Blumpf is saying we need steam powered what exactly?

>>33982420
>Japanese RADAR

You mean American export model radar, right?

>>33988476
Did you look into what was said at all? Or even who was the one saying that it could have revealed the source?

But no, just keep mindlessly bashing. I'm sure it makes you feel better.

>>33986844
We didn't want to know what fetish porn you watch

File: GF components.jpg (38KB, 500x304px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 500x304px

>>33988492
Steam powered catapult, instead of the electromagnetic cat on the Ford-class.

>>33988483

>And by all accounts, he listens to them and very much respects their advice.

He doesn't though, it's only after he's made a fuss that he's forced to listen.

File: 0TEf4wI.jpg (53KB, 509x511px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 509x511px

>>33983378

>>33988606
upvoted ftw

File: Completely uncomprehensive of the shit he's in.jpg (52KB, 500x746px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 500x746px

>>33984394
>EMALS = emails
>Emails = digital
>Emails = no good
>Digital = no good
>EMALS = no good

>>33987322
I wasn't saying anything about need, I was discussing different launch impulse technologies. I really couldn't care how many carriers the USN thinks is optimal.
>>33987657
The V-3 was still a gun, with sharp impulses upon the triggering of each chamber. Less than a single chamber, but still there. Also, the cats have an open track which impedes efficiency- imagine a V-3 with a lengthwise cut in the barrel. Suboptimal.

>>33988590
Ah,a non-sequitur, eh? Figures you'd be trolling.

File: F-35 subvariants.png (85KB, 400x224px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 400x224px

>>33986244
Semi-on-topic question: how long does it take to construct a F-35 airframe?

Attempting to calculate how long it would conceivably take for the USAF to switch out all F/A-18insertletterhere aircraft for F-35s.

>>33988673
A better question would be man-hours.

>>33986735
>>33986911
Also don't forget the lack of need to refuel, other than about every 22 years or so

>>33988673
Probably quite a while, as you are dependent on lots of subcontractors even for major assemblies. This also makes it hard to define-where do you start? Are you only interested in the assembly line?

I'd suggest that the limiting factors would be the composite airframe production and the engines. Try finding P&W's capacity.

>>33988646
Not how steam works. Superheated(Dry) steam loses heat while pressure remains the same until it turns to saturated. it is quite easy to maintain pressure along a rail or even increase it during travel. It's a matter of complexity and space not the engine.

>>33988710
Scenario: all the component parts are on the line at that very moment, no need to wait for some obscure important avionics system to be shipped in from Assfuck Nowhere, Texas. The engine and airframe itself still needs to be constructed.

>>33988743
The engines are constructed separately and then shipped in full.

>>33988713
>Superheated(Dry) steam loses heat while pressure remains the same until it turns to saturated
Do you even adiabatic expansion? what you said is so absolutely wrong that I have to assume that you're either a troll or genuinely incompetent. You should really study thermodynamics before arguing the merits of such a system.
Also, for the N-th time, THE FUCKING CAT TRACK HAS A SLOT FOR THE SHUTTLE ARM.
You automatically lose pressure after the initial travel thanks to losses.
>It's a matter of complexity and space not the engine.
Both. When you've got a steam cat, your launch capabilities are limited by the available steam head. And releasing steam late in the travel is going to waste a large portion of the enthalpy. When dealing with a system the efficiency of which reaches 6% at best, you really don't want even greater losses. Desalinating (you lose quite a bit overboard each shot) and boiling 600kg of water per launch is a non-negligible drain on the ship's power requirements.

File: getasset[1].jpg (159KB, 640x426px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 640x426px

>>33988743
LM's FRP plans are one off the line a day.

Engines are built by Pratt & Whitney and just socket into the airframe.

>>33983251
Go back to the welfare office, Ahmed

>>33985559
kek

>>33989021
gibs is rolling in his grave at the moment.
You will have reactive energy being extracted for as long as you are above the transition energy of the gas. An engine is not a boiler.
I think I implied that it would be absurdly large and complex as well as wasteful.
nrt, it's the t that drops.

>>33985373
No fool.

We all lost.

>>33989526
deep
do you have a blog I can subscribe too?

>perfectly fine F-35 shitposting thread ruined by Trump apologists
Can you faggots seriously not accept the fact that your god-emperor might actually say dumb things occasionally?

>>33989633
More like
>Perfectly fine F-35 shitposting thread ruined by /leftypol/ and reddit

There's not a single pro-trump comment in this thread fuckface

>>33988673
About 2 years from order to delivery, although there also needs to be long-lead items purchased something like an additional year sooner. In terms of man-hours it was >150,000 for the first jets, about 50,000 hours for jets in 2015 and expected to reach about 35,000 by 2020 / at peak rate - I'm not actually sure at what point they start counting the hours though: http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35-production-hours-continue-shrink. That could potentially go lower still if they keep doing Blueprint for Affordability style programs.

>>33989038
FRP will be around 150-170 jets a year, so that's about one every 2 days.

>>33982503
EMALS has been working right for the last couple years.

It's the arresting gear that's still a problem.

>>33982420
can't put together basic sentences but at least he talks straight

>>33989460
>it's the t that drops
And on the opposite side, both P and V change, not just one.
If you want to make it an isobaric process then your efficiency will be so absurdly low that you should have your posting license revoked.
Also, good luck maintaining constant pressure with open-loop control on a pressure vessel with holes which is changing rapidly.
>An engine is not a boiler.
And? The same holds true for turbines and piston engines. Do you even Carnot efficiency? What you are proposing is not a practical solution to the problem of launching the USN's aircraft off the existing carriers, whereas EMALS neatly avoids all those problems (precise electric closed-loop control, much higher pwer efficiency and density, less vulnerable to battle damage as there are no high pressure steam lines everywhere...), and its new ones are modest by comparison.
I really don't understand why you seem to be steampunk-obsessesd, and so offended by the idea that maybe the USN is developing something with merit. You're almost as bad as the BBfags.
WRT cost, developing the steam cats wasn't cheap either, but they more than paid off the initial value in service. Same goes for the new one- reduced total cost of ownership on the air fleet due to reduced stresses, reduced maintenance requirements, and higher efficiency means less requirement ofr auxilisry power generation while air ops are happening.