How often does a man get shot (or stabbed, or mildly exploded)

The infamous 1986 FBI Miami shootout comes to mind. It's amazing how many gunshots the bad guys there took and continued to fight. There was a TV movie made about it a couple years later, and though it's kinda dated and has a few minor inaccuracies (the full auto Mini-14 comes to mind), it's a surprisingly accurate depiction of what happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04dUCT-qO3c

>>33966890
Well OP, you've certainly raised a good question and I'll be happy to answer it. Normally, when the body is injured in the heat of the moment, adrenaline is pumped throughout the body. You tend to lose yourself essentially and you kind of feel a pinch or a punch, but you don't care. Because your brain has not registered the pain or even seen the extent of an injury, you actually avoid going into shock for a few minutes before succumbing to the effects of blood-loss (should the injury be serious enough, which, it tends to be in most firefights nowadays). When an explosion happens, usually you get a bit singed and even get some shrapnel embedded in your body but most veterans don't even realize that happens until years down the road. It is a frequent occurrence and has been since war has happened.

>>33966890
i heard the story out of iraq about an iraqi who head part of his skull blown off and kept shooting, like aiming shooting, not spraying, while still advancing, despite the sudden impromptu brain surgery he had just recieved

>>33966991
I heard one where a dude got his head cut off by a sword, but his headless body aimed his rifle and shot his killer in the heart as a sort of ingrained motor function thing.

I wonder if his severed head saw his body shoot the guy.

One time i got shot 3 times with 7.62 in the face and kept walking and sniped a guy hiding in a rooftop while kicking the guy who shot me in the nuts.

The point where someone actually dies is when brain functions cease. This might be through bloodloss (because the brain isn't getting oxygen anymore) or through direct trauma. Although as a point to note with direct trauma it's surprising what the brain can live through; A very famous example is Phineas Gage, the railway worker who got a spike through his prefrontal cortex and survived, but underwent a drastic personality change as a result.
So, until the brain stops getting oxygen/is damaged enough it can keep on functioning. Unless the person gives up, a lot of people have an inbuilt assumption that dying works like it does in the movies, the badguys get shot once each and they fly backwards, instantly killed. This belief is so powerful that some people just curl up and die when they get shot, whilst others refuse to accept that and carry on until the brain stops.

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>>33966991
>>33967038
The brainstem and cerebellum are the essential parts of human and brain function. Theoretically, you could have the rest of your brain cut away, leaving only those two and you'd still live before plasticity kicks in and begins to fill in the void. The prefrontal cortex is simply memory and personality, whereas the rest is touch, taste, smell, hearing, sight, and motor function. But if a task is already ingrained into the brain (such as, shooting and advancing), then the task would be performed until you bled out, which, would occur quickly.

>>33966890
it's all a matter of luck. The human body can take ridiculous amounts of damage and still nominally function. Then again a kidney stone the size of a grain of sand can bring the Mountain who Rides to his knees.

I've had a compound fracture and crush injuries to my legs, and would rather have that happen again twice before dealing with a kidney stone.

>>33966890
Adrenalin is a helluva drug.

>>33967099
>Then again a kidney stone the size of a grain of sand can bring the Mountain who Rides to his knees.
have had two, can confirm

>>33967099
Yep, internal bodily issues usually are felt first. Especially with a critical organ like the kidneys.

>>33967123
>like the kidneys.
especially the kidneys

>>33967099
this

>was in car crash at 14
>leg broken
>arm broken
>skull fracture
>6 broken ribs
>lived and am fine beyond a slight limp

>buddy was fucking around with a .38 when he was 19
>he NDed into the back of his leg
>it went through muscle, came out behind his knee, narrowly missed his femoral artery, all things considered a major but easily survivable wound
>he fell over and his femoral artery split slightly
>he bled out in less than a minute

>>33967126
Same thing goes for the stomach, intestines, heart and lungs. Isn't the human body amazing Anon?

>>33966991
The human body is resilient, but I find that story doubtful at best. Maybe ut was ''just'' his face that has been blown off?

>>33967135
Probably got scalped or the top of his brain removed. Basically a lobotomy with the cerebellum carrying on the last task. Doesn't happen too often with the way ammunition works, but it happens.

>>33967099
>>33966959
See, I had expected to hear that these war stories were mostly anecdotal. Mostly because there isn't a lot of non-essential bits on the body and I assume if you have been shot, various bones and muscle groups needed for movement are no longer operational.

I am aware, from frequent interaction with EMTs, that humans can survive inexplicable amounts of injury. Apparently 1 in 10 survive a headshot for instance. They won't be the same, but they'll survive. And people seem to survive 20+ stab wounds in a fairly routine fashion.

But to keep fighting? Don't you NEED your bones to not be shattered? For your muscles not to be torn?

>>>33967131
But not the brain, oddly enough. You'd think that it would be considered as kind of a critical organ.

>>33967164
And thats the thing, you will keep going until your body gives out from under you. Realization will hit that you are no longer moving and you will probably undergo shock. This is normally how regular broken bones get worse and become amputations.
Sometimes its a break but youre splinted by your gear. Ankles and calves? Usually held in place tightly by boots. Arms? Padding and gloves. As I said, you normally do not realize this things when adrenaline is being pumped throughout your body.

>>33967171
Well, back when I was taking psychology, I learned that technically, your brain does not have nerves on the outside and technically doesn't register pain. Thats why lobotomies were so easy to perform. It will pretty perform until there is no power source, much like a computer.

>>33967180
INTERESTING. Is that an intentional feature of combat gear/armor you think? Or incidental? Probably the latter, since I've never heard that feature advertised, but that's pretty cool.

I've never been shot, but I always assumed bullets only stopped if they hit bone, or otherwise exited the other side. Am I wrong? Can they just get embedded in your meat? What about shrapnel?

>>33967196
Normally, a round coming straight at you will go through all that meat and bone. Bone is carbon and calcium with, is surprisingly easy to break through. This is true with FMJs, but hollowpoints are different. They will expand upon impact on a soft target. That unfortunately is a different territory that I'm not familiar with yet. Shrapnel tends to enter the body while twisting and turning though, which, causes it to lose velocity and slow down rapidly, hence why most vets can't really have it removed as so much would have to cut away to get to a small piece of metal.

I think it is also intentional for gear to be the way it is, they won't advertise it since it is already advertised to help prevent injury, but that may just be me.

>>33967187
It's not technically. Your brain doesn't have nerves. Go watch a brain surgery video on YouTube. The patient is conscious. They continue to talk with the pt to make sure they don't fuck up the speech center accidently or something like that. Pt feels nothing (after the skull is cracked)

>>33967253
Yeah, I don't know why I said 'technically'. Just a term I use too much I guess.

I shot myself with a .177 air rifle and then walked to my dads work. Does that count?

>>33967099
I think witnessing yourself being injured plays a crucial role in how you perform afterwards too; I believe that seeing with your own eyes the bullets/blades/whatever physically injuring you(or at least being very acutely aware of your body at that moment) triggers "fight", whereas being injured and finding out later (feeling a sudden sharp pain, looking down in horror as you see you've just been shot/stabbed/whatever) triggers "flight". Fight or flight will happen regardless, but I think being present in the moment the injury occurs puts you in the "it's time to fuck shit up motherfuckers" mode. Finding out later that you've been potentially mortally wounded starts the whole "am I going to die will I ever see my kids again is there an afterlife" sort of shock whereas the first scenario overrides that. That's how it's always been for me, though I suppose everybody's response to trauma is unique to some extent.

>>33967216
Minor correction. Bones are hard to break. Bullets are just moving hilariously fast.

As for it being intentional part of gear, not really as far as I know, and I don't really see gear being of much help other than your boots splinting the ankle. It's mostly just clothing on the limbs of a given soldier

>>33967099
I broke my forearm a while back, completely snapped it like it was a twig. Literally gave my right elbow a high five with my right hand. They couldn't set the bone, so they sent me home in a splint with my arm, still totally broken as fuck, for 3 days until I could go in for surgery, in which they put in 2 plates and 10 screws to hold everything together. I was in a cast for 6 weeks, and then I had to go to physical therapy for a few months because I had lost almost all mobility and flexibility and strength in my arm.

I'd rather do that 5 times over than have another abscessed tooth. Oh my fucking god, I've never experienced anything more painful and agonizing than an infected tooth, specifically wisdom teeth. Everything fucking hurts all the time, you can't eat, you can't sleep, you can't even think. It's strange what we can bear through with ease and what can bring us to our knees.

So I'll give a quick rundown of adrenaline with my EMT level of knowledge.

It works by shunting blood around. Your body registers a threat (fight or flight) and dumps adrenaline into your body. This shunts blood from the non essential stuff (digestion is useless in a fight, for example) to your brain and large muscles. Heart rate and breathing increases, and a whole host of stuff designed to put more oxygen in your body. Oxygen means everything can work harder and faster. This increase in oxygen (plus sugar from your liver and few other let things) is why you get the time dilation effect and super strength and shit like that. It also does a few other helpful things, like increase the rate at which your blood clots.

>>33967290
teefusses too, can confirm as the small > big.

been running with on/off abscess on bicuspid.one where I could give a good squeeze and gunk would squirt out. Thank Odin I have a fuckton of opiates and a cycle of unused antibiotic (rx due to unrelated - otherwise I would have gone to ER).

Stones v. abscess? tough call, but they are acceptable for my worst enemies.

Then again, there is diverticulitis, which can be a motherfucker, but not even in the same ballpark as a stone.

So yeah, after remembering, stones>abscess>compound fracture>,,, anything I've ever experienced, though cancer might beat them all.

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>>33967269
except for like 10 seconds when I was stunned (put my face through a car window), I was totally aware of everything, knew people there, telling the first guy (civilian) on the scene my name, my phone number (to call my GF), that I was going into shock, my blood type, no allergies.

couldn't reach my phone, but this drunk ass homeboy reached into my blood soaked pocket that I couldn't reach, started dialing every contact A-->Z (bunch of people already called 911). I was straddling a tire, face down in a ever growing pool of my own blood, one leg on the ground, the other jammed up into the wheel well, about a foot shorter than the other.

The pavement was smooth and cool on my cheek when I heard/saw from underneath the wreckage some dude across the street in a yellow down jacket yelling "oh shit, homeboy is FUCKED up". "Someone call the amberlance". Not "amberlance", more like 911.

more to come if interest

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>>33967442
made the New York Times with a picture

>>33967099
Had multiple kidney stones now and can confirm. Would rather stab myself than go through that shit again.

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>>33967470
If you asked in a time w/o treatment, I'd help you out without hesitation. Few in history deserves that level of suffering.

4mg of IV dilaudid barely touched my pain, though adding IV fentanyl, ativan and a fuckton of fluids finally loosened me up after 12 hours. Felt like a giant was beating my back with a dumpster.

Russell, please take me away and end this

>>33967503
try having one AND incompetent med staff who hook you up to the pain killers and forget to actually get it into your system, ignore your calling of it, and wonder why i refused to pay

>>33967263

Where d'ya hit?

>>33967510
>hospital woes

got kicked out during a heatwave into 105' w/o money, wallet phone or shoes after a night in the ED because my neighbor saw me collapse in my front yard and called 911.

Waifu was doing trade show in Germany, closest family member 3 time zones away - basically no local support, and the ED pretended that they didn't have transpo vouchers (I lived 20 miles away).

Took off my shirt, grabbed a pair of hospital socks and blanket from a cart, and purposely strolled past the security station making sure they saw me and headed to the local police station about 2 blocks away.

Halfway there, got whoop whooped by 5-0, told him my tale of woe, and after 20 minutes in the air conditioned back seat, was given a ride home by a sympathetic cop who also bought me a coffee and a pack of smokes.

>>33967263
You're lucky to be alive. Even if shot in the foot, the 177 pellet finds its way to the skull and bounces in it 117 times (hence the name).

>>33966890
20% of people you stab in the heart with an eventually lethal blow will remain capable of some level of directed action ranging from running a few feet to pulling the knife from their heart and ascending a flight of stairs. It can vary very dramatically. Somewhere between almost a half to almost 3/4 of people stabbed in the heart +/- surrounding organs will survive at least 5 minutes.
BUT 9/10 people stabbed in the heart will die eventually even if they receive medical treatment.

>>33966890
Adrenaline is one hell of a drug anon, if that shit is pumping the only way to put a man down is to kill him, non-lethal injuries won't do shit until it wears off.

>>33966890
>>33966890
t. medfag on a trauma unit
>How often does a man get shot (or stabbed, or mildly exploded) and continue to fight? I've heard war stories in which someone gets shot multiple times, and continues to fight for some time before succumbing to injury. But how often does this happen?
How often? It's hard to give a good answer to that because it depends on so many different factors, all you can really say is that many people will survive minor injuries and only a few will survive/fight-on after major injuries ... but there are always exceptions. Some people end up incapacitated or dead from what look like minor injuries while others walk into ED more worried about the blood on their shirt than the shotgun emptied into their chest.
>Are most non-fatal injuries something you can endure for a while until the immediate combat is over?
By definition non-fatal injuries are the ones you're going to be able to endure.
Again though it depends on the specifics. Completely sever the spine and someone's going to drop, completely sever a tendon and the muscle attached to it won't work any more. But sometimes the body is more durable than you think; a bullet might shatter a bone but maybe the surrounding muscles can hold it together, a knife might push a blood vessel aside instead of cutting through it, some shrapnel might blow apart one tendon but the one next door might be strong enough to compensate.

I know that's pretty vague and unhelpful but it's a hard topic to give good answers on with so many variables. Take this website in recompense, it offers a bit of anatomy and some GREAT historical accounts of people surviving horrendous injuries.
http://www.classicalfencing.com/articles/bloody.php

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>>33966917

>>33966991
Plausible, if it was a high calibur shot that merely grazed the left side of the skull and tore off the bone like a shirt on a door knob.

Because it's the left side of the brain, he'd still be concious but mentally impared. Probably wouldn't realize he was shot in the head and just kept shooting out of habit.

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Stuff happens
> Both men had fired approximately 1,100 rounds, while approximately 650 rounds were fired by police. Another estimate is that a total of nearly 2,000 rounds were fired.
> Later reports showed that Mătăsăreanu was shot over 20 times in the legs and died from trauma due to excessive blood loss coming from two gunshot wounds in his left thigh.

>>33967164
Bullets aren't all that good and tearing and cutting. They're more for poking holes and when you get to jacketed and armor piercing round that don't normally fragment you get a lot of bleeding but not as much destruction.

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>>33966991
I believe it.

>>33968349

There was that senator shot in the head ages ago and she's doing okay I guess... Kathy something..

>>33967196
>Can they just get embedded in your meat? What about shrapnel?

Surprisingly yes in both cases. There are numerous records of people with bullets and shrapnel in them for years on end.

Ended up fine for the most part. Occasionally, the shrapnel needs to be removed because the sharp bits found their way into sensitive bits but as a rule it's not a problem.

>>33968384
Oh, no great loss then.

>>33967005
HIGHLY fucking doubt that, but I've got a more probable one I heard about a machine gunner. One half of an MG team in WWII was manning the gun while his buddy fed him ammo. He was struck in the head and killed. He should've just slumped over the gun, but with his last second and a half of conscious thought, he tapped his partner on the shoulder, the signal to take the gun, and rolled away to the left. His buddy didn't realize he'd been domed until the belt ran out and he was still lying there.

>>33968384
Members of Congress are capable of surviving for two additional terms without their brains, don't you know that?

>>33967521
In my calf while trying to climb a tree.

>>33967071
check out the big brain on brad.
thanks for the info

Only semi-relevant, but in my senior year of highschool I broke my knuckles and some fingers punching a guy. I heard a loud 'crack' and consciously recognized it, but I remember feeling absolutely nothing until at least a half hour later. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug, man.

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>>33966890
ones obligation to duty and country

>>33968463
That's an interesting response, like I bet the very last thing going through his head was something like "Man my head fucking hurts, I gotta sit down a minute"

>>33967462
Jesus

I put 3 rounds into a sand monkey in Afghanistan and watched him walk it off. He probably died later but he sure as fuck kept shooting at us.

There's plenty of cases of burglars eating a load of buckshot in the chest and running 2 blocks down the street before they collapse.

Even if you have your entire heart blown out you will continue to be awake for about a minute.

So yeah, guns are not some instant death ray like portrayed in the movies. The only way to instakill somebody is to sever the brain stem and that's a very small target

>>33967196
My grandpa was near a mortar round that went off nearby him in Korea, broke his face, knocked him out, and filled a lot of his left leg with shrapnel he had for life with no issues with.

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Shot out of combat by surprise = taking a lie down.

Shot while high on adrenaline or drugs = not taking a lie down until a little later.

>>33968358
Most of those fatal shots to the legs came in the very final gunfight he had when cops started shooting under the cars rittling his metal shinguards and calves with rounds until he gave up, he subsequently bled out.

>>33966890
>William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge shotgun, one round #6 shot fired. Killed after being shot six times.

>Michael Platt: Ruger Mini-14 .223 Remington with folding stock, at least 42 rounds fired, S&W M586 .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired, Dan Wesson .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired. Killed after being shot 12 times.

>6
>12

Ask me about my war crimes!

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>>33967099
Passed about five of the fuckers in rapid succession a few months ago. Also was in a car accident a few years ago that broke three or four bones, including my collar. The accident was more debilitating for a longer period of time, but in terms of outright pain, the kidney stones were much worse.

The morphine does NOTHING
>My fucking face when

>>33966917
Weren't they high as fuck on drugs?

>>33970220
Anyone have the story about the guy who gets 12 gauged by a girlfriend or something over some cheating shit and survives?

>>33970270
>>33968399
>>33967835
>the surrounding muscles can hold it together

Ok seriously? Are you saying being swole actually gives you meat armor? Does being a muscled hulk make you more likely to survive combat injury?

In that case what about morbidly obese dudes? They look stab resistant at the very least, but I'm pretty sure mythbusters showed it wouldn't actually stop a bullet. But could it give concealment to your vitals? Deflect trajectory?

>>33970532
Autopsy showed zero drugs. Not even booze.

>>33967099

>tfw had a gall stone get stuck
>was up for 12 hours screaming in pain
>the meds didn't do shit
>constantly puking from pain

good times.

>>33970726
Another good question Anon. Muscle is infact more of a "meat armor" so to say. Trying to pass a knife through muscle is certainly much more difficult than fact, BUT, this is muscle too which is needed for controlling the body. Muscle tends to be much more dense than fat and technically, you could survive a bit more with more muscle. Too much impairs movement at times (if you aren't stretching more and more everytime you work out to keep flexibility).

>>33969299
Thank you! And not a problem, psychology does give you some good knowledge on the brain and how it works, plus, to be fair, lobotomies aren't hard to do in a relative sense.

>>33966890
I shoot man with famas

no mas

>>33967131
Right up until you get to the knees and are left wondering what kind of fucked up evolutionary process could've come up with such a shitty joint.

>>33970162
It was probably a bullet, actually.

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Read the story of Roy Benavidez.
http://www.psywarrior.com/benavidez.html
I would copy and paste parts of the story, but this site won't let me. Trust me, it's worth the read.

He was a special forces guy who earned a medal of honor in Vietnam. This guy refused to be stopped, fighting for 6 hours despite 37 gunshot/bayonet wounds, countless shrapnel, and being clubbed over the head with a rifle butt. He had volunteered for a rescue mission of a downed SF team and singlehandedly jumped into the hot landing zone from a huey armed with only a bowie knife.

He was shot up, bayoneted, covered in shrapnel, broken back, and still managed to carry eight wounded soldiers and load them onto a helicopter (which then crashed) all while shooting and knifing the enemy in hand to hand combat. When the huey crashed, he dragged the wounded survivors out of the wreckage and held off the enemy which was attacking from all sides, while simultaneously calling in air strikes and providing cover fire for another medivac copter that was trying to get into the LZ. When that medivac landed, he again dragged the survivors over and loaded them all. Despite the dozens of critical injuries, he was still able to fight off hordes of enemies in literal hand-to-hand combat, bayoneting and clubbing his way through the NVA. When he was finally pulled into the copter, he was nearly unconscious from the enormous blood loss and his intestines spilling out into his hands.
He survived and died of old age.

>>33973689
You forgot the part where during his first deployment in the Army he stepped on a fucking landmine and doctors told him he would never walk again. He threw himself out of his bed crawled and trained himself every night against doctors orders, learned to walk again, and reenlisted to be special forces.

>>33973689
My god. This story gave me chills. The heroics and bravery of that man is unmatched. May his soul rest in piece

>>33974189
Was that guy even human?

>>33975509
Yup and the final time when he was finnally pulled outta the fight he was marked dead. He spit in the medics face to prove he was alive. Since too weak to do anything else.
Freaking amazing.

>>33976121
No, he was a fucking terminator. He even loaded a dead NVA soldier in the helicopter because he was blind and couldn't see, and said "I couldnt leave any of our boys behind". Mind you he did this after being shot and stabbed 37 times, had his back peppered with shrapnel from a grenade that went off just a few yards from him, and had his skull caved in by an enemies rifle butt. He is also the only man in the US military history to kill multiple enemy combatants with a fucking bowie knife and his bare hands since we fought the injuns.

>>33975509
>>33976139
Not just that as they were looking him over the doc thought he was dead, he knew what was happening as they were zipping up the body bag and couldn't lift a finger to stop them, but he found the energy to spit, and then as he sat in the chopper he was trying to clear his throat and the medic mistook this as him choking so he pulls out his knife and prepared to perform a tracheotomy, the soldiers on board had to physically stop mr.Benavidez from kicking him off the huey.

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>>33966890
>>33968358 Willpower.

1/2
By the time he moved out of the parking lot, Phillips had been shot at least 7 times, 2 of which had missed his armor and entered his body. A 12 gauge pellet to the ass cheek embedded in the muscle, and a 9mm round embedded in his forearm that managed to sneak underneath his forearm armor. As he sidestepped out of the parking lot after letting off a bunch of bursts towards the Del Taco, he turned to his right and was hit in his unarmored right shoulder, from the rear. The bullet broke his clavicle and severed the subclavian artery, a fatal wound that would have killed him within about 15 minutes. Despite how badly it would have hurt, he responded by skipping a few times. As he straightened out, he was struck again in the right shoulder, from the front. The bullet dislocated his shoulder and sent fragments into his neck.

His only reaction was to lurch forward slightly and spin around, trying to figure out where the bullet had came from. He again heard fire to his rear and spun, seeing a cop one block down firing at him, he fired off his final three rounds from his AK before it jammed. He took cover under a tractor trailer. He spent about 60 seconds trying to fix it but eventually gave up, either too much adrenaline, or it was more than just a simple stovepipe. You might think that he would be panicking at this point, especially now that the getaway car had left him behind. Instead, he remembered that he had emptied the HK91 rifle before throwing it back in the trunk of the getaway car, so he pulled an HK91 mag out, as well as his Beretta, and emerged, walking down the sidewalk, apparently still believing he might be able to fight his way down the street. Spotting police about 60 feet away, he fired a single shot, before sidestepping and firing another.

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>>33976310
2/2
But now willpower comes back into play. He had an enormous amount of willpower, more than most. But he had nearly tapped his well dry. Willpower is finite, eventually it runs out. As he stepped back, a bullet hit the fence next to him, the ricochet hit him in the right hand above the thumb. An extremely minor wound, except it was the one that put him over the edge. He dropped the pistol, and leaned over to pick up with his off hand, maybe believing his right hand was badly damaged, or perhaps now finally experiencing the panic he had kept at bay for 38 someodd minutes. He turned towards the fence slightly, put the gun under his chin and shot himself.

So really, as long as nothing vital is hit, and so long as you have lots of willpower, you can keep fighting for quite some time.

>>33976310
More like painkillers.

The hollywood shooter guys were on barbiturates.

>>33976320
"willpower" is what the American media and police will tell you for propaganda purposes.

They were on painkillers.

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>>33976349
>>33976340
I find it telling they would wish to conceal how to re-create the apparently super-human physiological effects those drugs had.

>>33976340
>>33976349
Phenobarbital, a medication that is used to control seizures by relaxing the CNS. It's also prescribed as a sleep aid, as well as to control anxiety, which is why they would have taken it. It's not much of a painkiller

>>33976369
I never read exactly which ones but it was my understanding they were painkillers.

Any source saying phenobarbitol?

>>33976381
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggl6y-LF7aA&ab_channel=player4life11111

>>33976369
>>33976381
wiki lists this as a source:

" Critical Situation, "North Hollywood Shoot-out"; Robinson, 13."

>>33976389
Interesting.

The more you know.

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you will be surprised at what you will do when you need to.

>>33967071
You're an idiot and know not of which you speak

t. neurosurg