how did Britain lose the american revolutionary war?

>>33958307
France helped the burgers out of spite for the bongs.

>some burgers will deny this

>>33958307
small numbers. and that the revolutionary's had help from the french and spanish

>>33958307
logistics
>the crown was already in debt because of the French Indian war. which is why it levied taxes on the colonies.
>the french navy was intercepting british military shipping.
>even if the french didn't stop british shipping. takes at best, two weeks to get to america.
>

>>33958307
Proxy war with France
T.Burger

>>33958307
It was at the end of a huge and vulnerable logistics chain whilst Britain was trying to fight a significant war in europe as well. In the end something had to give, better it be the americas than throwing everything there and losing at home.

didnt invest enough into winning

they were pretty broke and were more intent on holding onto more lucrative india

>>33958307
They rightly decided that the war brewing in Europe was a bigger priority for them.

>>33958324
>>33958342
Another burger here. We lucked out with France wanting to fuck with Britain. Willingly will admit Washington was a shit general.

The distance made Brits unable to wage war effectively in the long run, attrition sealed the deal.

It's also worth pointing out that Britain was on the rise, but they weren't the great power that they'd later become.

>>33958371
Baguette here, we always want to fuck with britain

>>33958371
I believe Spain also provided minimal support, but they were in no way going to provide enough support to piss off the empire that rofl fucked them once before
>>33959287
Didn't the French involvement in the war lead to a lot of Economic debt leading to the Fremch Revolution?

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The British soldiers had to buy their own rifle licenses, their own hat licenses, their own tea licenses...

>>33959328
>Didn't the French involvement in the war lead to a lot of Economic debt leading to the Fremch Revolution?

Partially. The revolution in the US was basically a testing ground to see if enlightenment ideals could actually form a functional government. Many of the same figures that aided us in our war had a role in leading/starting the French Revolution.

Fun fact: From 1798-1800, we were engaged in an undeclared naval war with the French Republic because we refused to pay debts.

>Burger, pay debts to your brother in Revolution!
>Begone! We owe money not to you, but the French crown!

We had an informal relationship with British naval elements during this period. Our traders would join in with each other's convoys for protection against French privateers.

>>33958307
all the reasons listed, plus the Brits half-assed supporting or recruiting loyalists in any meaningful way until late in the war.

ITT: I get my history from posts on 4chan

>>33959328
>I believe Spain also provided minimal support

Spain did a lot more then they get credit for. Huge amounts of arms and supplies came to the American via Spanish Louisiana and Cuba.

They also diverted thousands of British troops with campaigns in Florida, the Caribbean and Gibraltar.

Because american fighting spirit far outweighed the evil british. Also we had rifles and they had smooth bore muskets. We also had Mel Gibson. Also the US used gorilla warfare.

>>33959594
I believe that's how we came into possession of Florida and the some surrounding territory, was it not?
If so we really owe a lot to a lot of people

>>33958307
America is too large. They'd win some battles and get relentlessly attacked. Think the gooks in Vietnam invented guiruila warfare? Fuck no. We did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYl58yK4znE&spfreload=10

>>33960960
Noooooo
We technically stole Florida from the Spanish
But we paid them money later so it was all good

>>33958307
A better question would be how did the Brits lose every battle in the Boer Wars

>>33958307
Basically the difficulty of maintaining a fully mobilized army actiss the Atlantic, political turmoil at home between pro and antiwar factions, foreign powers looking to take advantage of weakening Britain, and the Americans knowing it was in their favor to prolong the war as long as possible.

>>33959456
>Fun fact: From 1798-1800, we were engaged in an undeclared naval war with the French Republic because we refused to pay debts.
>>Burger, pay debts to your brother in Revolution!
>>Begone! We owe money not to you, but the French crown!
That's hilarious, but the logic is flawless sooo...

>>33961003
>A better question would be how did the Brits lose every battle in the Boer Wars
Still used musket tactics against a militia with bolties.
What they learned and developed from the conflict meant they steam rolled the Germans until it descended to trench warfare.

>>33958371
he was apparently a good spymaster though
>jukes british with a bunch of evasive bullcrap
>keeps them from backing up cornwallis
>cornwallis surrenders
>british end up sending guys who get there after the surrender

lolwhoops

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>>33958307
Brits were using outdated tactics.

>>33958371
cuck

>>33958307
Brits were engaged in multiple local military campaigns and didn't care about some backwater colonies
It is extremely difficult to command a military campaign when it takes 2 months for your orders to get to your troops.
It is extremely difficult to win a military campaign when it takes 2 months to get supplies to your troops

>>33958307
>how did Britain lose the american revolutionary war?
There was an ocean.

>>33959772
>we had rifles and they had smoothbore muskets.
>What was the Ferguson rifle?

>>33962901
>>What was the Ferguson rifle?
A smoothbore musket.

>>33958307
Because they barely took part.
The annoying thing is that if we had just gone with the taxation increase, the british empire would probably still stand, with us as the head of the table.

>>33962974
How is that an annoying thing? We'd all be disarmed cucks learning which is the least offensive way to get raped by a migrant arab.

>>33963014
>We'd all be disarmed cucks learning which is the least offensive way to get raped by a migrant arab

Our educational system would probably be better though..

But no, We would have retained independence after the uk deposed their autocratic system of rule in favor of parliamentary governance.

The only downside would have been that neither world wars would have happened, so no expedited weapon development or milsurp.

>>33963109
>Our educational system would probably be better though..
We have plenty of top tier universities. If you mean public school, then I'll live with creationists and inner city schools if it means not having my kids taught how to say 'I'm sorry, please rape me' in arabic.

>>33958307
Same way America lost Vietnam: They were fighting on the far side of the world against an entrenched rebel force that was financially backed by the world's other great power of the time, while still having to maintain their military presence in numerous other theaters of operation.

The Brits could have won in America, but at a cost that they were not willing to bear and that probably wouldn't have been worth it from an economic and strategic standpoint, at least in the near term.

>>33963165
>all the retardation very densely packed in this post

wew

>>33962635
Correction. Brits were using valid line warfare tactics to fight a guerilla/bush war.

>>33963135
No, I implied that your argument, syntax and lack of understanding of the potential historical impact bordered on the idiotic.

Fuck, I doubt that muslims and many other minority religions and cultures would even still exist. Just think about it.

>>33958307
Because American marksmen with rifles sniped all the British officers.
>>33961003
Because Boer marksmen with rifles sniped all the British officers.

>>33962920
a early breachloading rifle

>>33961003
It's very simple and almost comical how stupid old countries were to fall behind on technology each time and still go to war.

Army with muskets you need to load standing up vulnerable with a ram-rod very slowly will always get fucking destroyed by an army with bolt action guns where you can stay prone 24/7 while you work-the-bolt, shoot, work-the-bolt, shoot, work-the-bolt, shoot, work-the-bolt, shoot.

The exact same thing decided the Austro-Prussian War that created the modern Prussian Empire (and German Empire.) The Prussians created a large standing army with bolt guns and they obliterated the austrian retards that were still random idiots with muskets.

The next generation after is semi-autos which hard-trump bolt actions. The increase in volume of fire and mobility beats any 0.001% accuracy increase of boltguns, while keeping the ability to reload while safely prone.

Fully automatic infantry rifles don't have the same game-changer situation. It may be game-changing for the machine-gunner and vehicle weapons to be fully auto, but for basic infantry fully-auto depletes mags too fast while also reducing accuracy too much to be anything more than a side-grade for basic infantry.

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>>33958307
God chose to punish the Anglican's heresy. Considering The UK has shrunk to nothing, I'd say God hasnt finished his punishment.

The Queen and Country would be wise to get good with the Church and stop the non-sense.

>>33962974
Or we might have been treated like the Irish during the Famine.

>>33963706
Employed in public works and organised into workhouses?

Yeah, that sounds too much like socialism to me!

>>33958307
Multiple reasons. It was a confluence of events.

>Fighting a half-guerilla war across the Atlantic in the 18th Century
>Shenanigans and conflict in Europe--much more important than some colonial backwater that produced no irreplaceable crops
>French fleet showed up in the right place and time ONE time... when it really mattered
>A fair number of Englishmen agreed with the basic complaints of the colonists (mostly, lack of equal rights as Subjects Of The Crown) and supported them tacitly--to the point of wanting to let them go after the Declaration and years of fighting with no end in sight

In the end, it just wasn't WORTH it to the British to keep fighting, especially after Cornwallis was forced to surrender.

>>33963770
>whatarethecornlaws.jpg

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>>33963165
what?

>>33963791
>French fleet showed up in the right place and time ONE time... when it really mattered

Hmmm.. I wonder who would have arranged that. >>33963696

>>33963805
The corn laws were put in place decades before, and were repealed at the start of the Famine.

The famine was mostly caused by incompetence and inaction, not malice.

Also, unless you're suggesting confiscating private property and redistributing it to the masses, it wouldn't have helped much.

>>33962974

What we've created independently is far better though. We're the prototype for modern representative democracy that everyone else copied.

>>33963470
Austrians have always been terrible at war.

>>33958371
No he fucking wasn't, you self-loathing twink. Go the fuck back to leaddit.

>>33964285
All of washington's strategy came from his black slaves. White people were never good at anything.

>>33958324
>France helped the burgers out of spite for the bongs.

less spite, more tactical advantage against them.

you know how vietnam was in many ways a proxy war of soviet-backed communism vs US' backed capitalism?

when the UK and France were the two global superpowers, the american colonies were used as a proxy war, and to divert resources from the British isles, much the same way.

>>33958307
>how did Britain lose

logistics in an age of sail, trying to maintain communication, materiel, munitions and governance from the other side of an ocean.

>>33964510

If Washington had listened to his black slaves, he would have died of syphilis while piss drunk in a hog pen.

>>33958307
Conducting a war somewhere that is several months travel time away is hard

>>33964863
>less spite, more tactical advantage against them.
Oh please, they've been at each other's throats since the dawn of mankind.

>>33960983
the spanish are credited with inventing guerrilla warfare

>>33958356
>more intent on holding onto more lucrative india

They were hardly even in India at the time. Losing most of the good American colonies is why they went and conquered most of India.

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>>33964510
>We lucked out with France wanting to fuck with Britain
>All of Washington's strategy came from his black slaves
>Most if not all of the French generals and their advisors are white

They lost because they weren't really trying. It's one thing to fight savages; quite another to fight fellow white protestants. And fellow Whigs, no less! The hearts of the Prime Minister, Johnny Burgoyne, and even the King - all of whom had serious Whig sympathies - were never in defeating Washington. They fought at all because they were kind of expected to, but they never really fought like they wanted to win.

>>33958324
Great for US, horrible for France.

Pretty sure the cost of the war was enough of a reason to help tip the French common to knock over the monarch (not ignoring the fact there was a severe famine at the time of the French revolution).

>>33958307
>ctrl + F
>"whigs"
>nothing

i am dissapoint k

the political opposition in Britain to the war was the biggest reason they lost. The war became a political issue with the Tories being pro-war and the Whigs being anti-war. The Whigs used it as a wedge issue, accusing the Tories of wasing money, mismanaging the war, etc. When the Whigs got into power they wanted peace and friendship with America.

Also, Americans were white English Protestants, so for political reasons the British couldn't do to the Americans what they did to anyone else who rebelled, which was burn shit and kill people left and right. If they had done that to Americans the London newspapers would have chimped

>>33964897
>>33964969
Keep trying to imply white people did anything.

>>33964956
We did it better.

>>33964863
>you know how vietnam was in many ways a proxy war of soviet-backed communism vs US' backed capitalism?
HA! Strongest military in the world, lost to a bunch of rice farmers!

>when the UK and France were the two global superpowers, the american colonies were used as a proxy war, and to divert resources from the British isles, much the same way.
HA! Strongest military in the world, lost to a bunch of cotton farmers!

Wait, hol' up...

>>33958307
the atomic bomb

>>33961843
Yes.
Washington was good regarding the Intel/counter Intel game.

>>33964897
And what's wrong with that?

>>33962635
Should of had him in a white challenger

>>33961822
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5wCl3aAMEQ

>>33965077
Well, they did make the site you're shitposting on, as well as found a way to utilize the electricity that powers it, as well as more than likely designed the broadband you're using, as well as made the companies that provide you the basic necessities, and probably the computer that you're using. Also the clothes, medicine, houses, infrastructure, vehicles, water treatment, and other crap that you likely use on a day to day basis. Also, depending on what country, the rights you are blessed with (I'm gonna sit, wait, and watch as you twist that one around).

But you know what? Fuck white people, they never made anything meaningful in this world, right?

>>33965373
Don't take the bait man.

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>>33965380
Sorry brother... it's far too late for that.

>>33965077
>only 5,000 blacks on Washington's side.
>at least 20,000 American casualties.

Invisible soldiers?

>>33963791
>some colonial backwater that produced no irreplaceable crops
The northern colonies had a fair amount of shipbuilding industry that was pretty important to the empire.

>>33965416
Obviously they're night time operations.

>>33964510
>>33965077
lmao what jewish professor filled your head with these ideas?

>>33963135
>'I'm sorry, please rape me' in arabic.
No, instead you're saying it in Spanish and African while Babutende Manana plows your wife and Ramirez rapes your daughter

>>33958324
I don't think any burgers deny that France helped

Even the American Rev War meme movie The Patriot depicts this

God, if there's on thing these history related threads are good for,
it's reminding me how fucking retarded the vast majority of /k/ is

>>33958307

Cause they fought France, Spain and America at the same time. So they did a WWI/II Germany by 1778. Not helped by the fact that ya know, a ocean was in the way and their Generals happened to have retarded moments strategy wise.

>>33963165
looks like someone gets there history from American Heroes Channel and you tube.

I often wonder just invested the British commanders were in winning the war. Not that they were trying to loose. But that they weren't really willing to do anything to win.

If you examine some of the choices they made it seems that they were maybe hoping the whole thing would blow over given time.

>>33958307

The rebels fought on. That's the only thing they needed to do.

By not being crushed early, the following thing came to pass:
> Other powers (France, Spain) helped them to diminish their British rivals
> The Brits, already bankrupt in practice, accrued too high a cost to continue fighting
> The geography worked in their favour. US was too big for the Brits to be controlled succesfully, and their forces too small anyways
> British Logistics was a nightmare, given the distance, the geography and the infrastructure.
> Brits couldn't even adopt full scorched earth terror tactics. Killing every colonist would have been pointless for them.


The war was won at Valley Forge much more than Saratoga.

>>33967218
Again, that's especially true with "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne. He wasn't a bad sort of fellow at all, his heart was never in that fight, and he just wasn't willing to really get rough with the colonists. If a religious fanatic/repressed homosexual with a messiah complex like "Chinese Charlie" Gordon (wrong century, I know, but you get the idea) had been running things, they would likely have turned out very differently.

>>33960983
>>33964956
>>33965111

Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosis Cunctator would like to have a word about that.

>>33967268

No, not at all.

See above

>>33967277
Oh, come now. There are ways to put an end to guerrilla insurgencies and to control large territories with minimal administration. The Brits weren't bad at it at all, as they proved in many spots around the globe for a very long time.

The problem is in doing those sorts of things to fellow white protestants. That takes a special sort of bloodthirsty maniac, which, all propaganda aside, George III was not. America would not see such a leader until Abraham Lincoln, who (not coincidentally) much like Charles Gordon, was a fanatic and repressed homosexual with a messiah complex.

>>33959287
Ah best ally.
Fuck those piratelike red coat scum

>>33967288
>Abraham Lincoln
>a fanatic and repressed homosexual with a messiah complex
Modern profiling of Abraham Lincoln suggests he was literally autistic. He just did what would further his cause without relying too heavily on muh empathy.

>>33966951
Not true. I can shoot them still. Hell, America is so free hispanics become white the second they shoot a black person.

>>33962901
Not issued in numbers

>>33963109
How would the US remaining a colony prevented world wars? If India broke off sooner would we have had 2 or 3 more world wars?

>>33969248

Because having another 200 million people to Britain's empire population and economy would have stopped any potential conflict from forming with us as a belligerent.

Look at WW2 for an example. We could have just had the eastern US churn out entire war fleets as well as liberty ships packed with supplies without ANY chance of German retaliation. It'd be the perfect deterrent to a war.

Having an untouchable war economy with a shitton of coast line with untouched mineral wealth everywhere would prevent anything but minor proxy wars.

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>>33965342
This was awesome.

From the series John Adams?

Any opinions about this series?

>>33967169
Fuckin lol I love all the shit on AHC, like how it's an all day marathon of different Hitler specials with conflicting information

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>>33958307
Not really caring and france showing up to help

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>>33959287
You two have been in the biggest wars in Europe for years and have the biggest love hate relationship in the world. What does that feel like

>>33958307
When America found a way to bring William Wallace back to life, he immediately began to slaughter all the Brits single handedly, just like when he was back in Scotland.

>>33958307
Because the Brits didnt have challengers. Duh, this is easy op

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>>33958339
This.

Instead of making this thread OP should have just read pic related. Literally tells you everything you need to know.

Just thanks to the help of spaniards help. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Farragut

(you are welcome, guys)

France, Spain I think, and German hessians helped America. Any more

>>33970401
The Hessians were mercenaries working on behalf of the British, look up The Battle of Trenton.

>>33958324
>out of spite for the bongs.
We had lost Canada to them something like 12 years before the start of the revolutionary war. I think the king still hoped to retake some of it.

>>33969903
Like that brother you can't fucking stand I guess. You regularly punch each other, but in the end he's still family so you can't just kill him and be rid of him once and for all (but it's still tempting).

Being best bros with the scots and the irish helps a lot, that way you can aknowledge the UK while still despising the brits.

So tl;dr as I understand it is
>broke
>poor logistics
>poor tactics
>Colonists had France backing them up

>>33969478
Excellent series, you don't see much in the way of combat, its mostly about the democratic founding of the United States, diplomacy abroad, and Adams' personal life.

>>33970849
Both sides had German Mercs fighting for them. The market was flooded with German Mercs at the time.

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>>33958324
You're full of shit America won by our own sheer strength and within a decade we were a global super power which just shows our tru colors.

>>33958307

They should have decided to back the South during the Civil War in exchange for return of all the original 13 colonies north of the Mason-Dixon Line. What an interesting world that would be?

French helped. Occupation forces never win. Etc.

>>33972451
>British North America aka Greater Canada would take most current US land
>CSA would conquer Mexico and continur to head south, eventually deporting former slaves once they would innevitably emmancipate them back to Africa
Glorious entirely Anglo North America.

America would be a better country now if they had lost the revolutionary war and had peacefully left the empire

>>33958324
Yorktown surrender only happened because the french navy beat back the British navy from sailing into the Chesapeake to evacuate them.

that and the british navy not trying a second time.

>>33963470
>muskets
>bolt action
>semi-auto
>full-auto
>planes w/guns
>planes w/bombs
>planes w/nukes
>missiles
>missiles with nukes
>lasers/rail-guns
>select gravity displacement engines

>>33958324
Lafayette is my husbando

>>33970849
A Prussian officer helped train the American military
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Wilhelm_von_Steuben

>>33958371
>will admit Washington was a shit general.
>kept the rebellion going long enough to get a victory that attracted foreign aid (Lexington).

>>33972451
Russia would have joined on the side of the Union in that scenario.

>>33963192

Not very valid if they fucking lost

>>33960999
can we get a refund?

>>33972829
>implying Russia had the ability to project power to that part of the world in the 1860s

>yes, they did have Russian Alaska, but there was no infrastructure to move an army across Russia and into North America like that

>>33973290
What is California

>>33958307
Short answer is incompetence.

>>33958371
He was the perfect general for the situation. He kept a army in the field and (mostly) kept said army from ransacking the country they were fighting for. He was also the master of the orderly withdrawal.
What other tactical deficiencies he had were made up for by his subordinates.

>>33958307
Some bad ass dudes, some help from the French and the simultaneous existence of the Atlantic ocean and non-existence of airplanes.

>>33971809
I liked the John Adams book, would I like the series?

>>33958307
muh threepers

>>33958307
>Fight at sea
>Fight in southeast Asia
>Fight in the Americas
>Lose one of those three fights
I wonder why the Brits failed to win one theater in a global war?

>>33958324
Literally no one denies the critical importance of French aid. Some of us are butthurt the French only did it to fuck with the Brits, not because they liked us or fighting for liberty.

>>33967268
Err... Tarleton?

>>33963109
If US had remained part of Britain, it'd be a lot whiter than it is now.

That's a bad thing.

>>33964071
Must be why they said "Fuck it" and made themselves neutral.

>>33963470

The Austrian army was always laughably incompetent though.

There are multiple anecdotes of Austrian officers having to use sign language to communicate with their Slavic-speaking subordinates, which completely broke down in the occassional night time battle.

>>33967218

It was definitely a factor.

British parliament was quite divided about the issue because a lot of them were sympathetic to the rebels for just wanting to exercise their rights as Englishmen. Nonody really wanted to massacre the people they still perceived to be their own.

Another factor is that the American Independence War was a lot more of a 'brother vs brother' conflict than the Civil War later. A lot of the 'British' troops were Loyalists and families were frequently divided along political allegiance.

Not to mention the fact that blacks fought on both sides and the Iroquois Confederacy pretty much broke down for the same reason.

>>33963192

The guerilla aspect of the AIW shouldn't be that overstated.

It certainly played a significant part in the beginning and in several battles, but it didn't win the war. Congress quickly realized they needed a regular standing army with artillery in order to conquer and hold strategic positions.

There's a reason why line warfare had been the standard in Western militaries for at least a century then and would remain so for nearly a century later. Guerilla warfare was great for insurgents whittling down an occupying force, as the Spanish would later prove, but it wasn't the way to win for what was essentially an insurgent government trying to conquer most of a nation from a rival one.

>>33958324
>>33975203
to be more precise, nobody denies it, but there are americans too ignorant to know of it.

>>33959328
>>33959594

>nobody notices the sacrifices of greatest ally Republic of Netherlands

I-its okay Murica-kun, it's not like we lost shit as a result or anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Anglo-Dutch_War

I do love John Adams for accurately portraying the Dutch mentality though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj1cgBI5rdI

>>33958307
Busy fighting France, France also decided to throw a spanner in the works in America

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Best ally

>>33978062
>Dutch mentality
Yeah that seems pretty much perfect. I (usually) admire the Dutch for just saying what they want to say, regardless of whether the other person wants to hear it or not.

They lost because the American Army developed discipline while drilling tactics. They lost most battles combating as irregulars until they began adopting combat tactics of the time under certain circumstances.

>>33962898
This.

>>33968857
Kek

>>33972410
>within a decade
xD