Russian White Army

Gotta imagine these allied armies were aiding the communists in reality, thats what they've done all along

I'd like to think the czar might have been reinstated although with drastically limited powers.

>>33932777
Remember that the "white Russians" ranged from tsarists, pro democratic parties, socialists, and just about every other political party you could this k of that wasn't Bolshevik. They probably would have had a continuous civil war and been picked apart by bordering counties desu

>>33932809
Of course, you're right he would be limited, he was related to George V of Britain and also Wilhelm II of Germany, though he was in exile.

The family would have propped him up but I expect he would have had to cede a lot of power to try and keep everyone together, as in please the Bolshevik aspects of society as well as the Tsarists.

>>33932790
Really? How come?
"Winston Churchill, the British war secretary and a leading supporter of the 'White' military cause"
>nationalarchives.gov.uk
>>33932826
This makes sense. Grouping against a common cause.

>>33932790
?

File: d2419f187dc88f88ec33e2acdacfa11c.jpg (70KB, 477x640px) Image search: [Google]

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>>33932777
I imagine it would be something like modern Russia.
They unlikely to come close to USSR, in military might and political influence.
Also most of the breakaway territories, like Ukraine and Caucasus nations, would remain independent, Japan woud likely grab Russian Far East.

But their military would be still pretty strong. A lot of people, like Sikorski, for example, most likely will never leave Russia. But I can't imagine they rapidly industrialising, like Stalin's USSR in 30's. So in global conflict like WWII they most likely lose. Just like a modern Russia, they will have a lot of brilliant projects and prototypes, but not enough money and industrial power to release them.

>>33932777
I have an MA in Russian history. AMA because I'm an arrogant fuck with a useless degree

>How different would the world have worked out had the Russian white army won instead of the red?

would have never happened, as the whites were not a single unified force and if they overthrew the Bolsheviks they would have fought each other next.

The only "likely" scenario for a white "victory" was the reinstating of the Provisional Government, never the Tsar. The Tsar went from beloved in 1904 to hated by 1917 due to incompetence and WW1. Anyone suicidal enough to reinstate him would have been executed by the people a month later.

This does not mean the Bolsheviks were popular either, btw. Contrary to popular belief 1917-1924 Russia was not Bolsheviks vs. Tsarists. The most popular parties in Russia at the start of the Civil War were the Socialist Revolutionaries, Kadets, and Mensheviks who all wanted to create a liberal-democratic regime.

I have a rundown from another thread of all the major White factions. Incoming dump

>>33933077
The vast majority of the Whites didn't want to restore the monarchy.
The Whites weren't really a united front, they were divided up among various warlords and many had competing interests. They were united by hatred of the Bolsheviks. You basically had:
-Admiral Kolchak's Provisional Government of Russia. This was probably the most powerful faction and was recognized by the Western Allies as the legitimate government of Russia after October 1917 for a time. With the help of the British he overthrew a variety of smaller and weaker white groups and proclaimed himself dictator. Kolchak was basically aiming to become the successor of Kerensky and the earlier provisional government that the Bolsheviks overthrew. He was not going to resurrect the Tsar but rather rule as a military dictator with Western support. An admiral with little army command experience and inept administrator whose forces pillaged and pogrom’d their way through Russia, Kolchak’s forces were comprehensively defeated in summer 1919 and he was captured/executed.
-The Komuch. This was made up of socialists and liberals from the Russian Constituent Assembly that the Bolsheviks had abandoned. They were allied with the Czech Legion and sought to create a westernized-liberal democratic regime. They were eventually taken over by Kolchak

The Provisional Siberian Government. It was supported by the Japanese (who were occupying Vladivostok) and consisted of ex-provisional government socialists. Like the Komuch it was eventually folded into Kolchak’s regime.

>>33933094
The Forces of South Russia. This included the famous Volunteer Army which was the closest to reach Moscow of any other white forces. It also consisted of many Ukrainian/Don region Cossacks who were (probably falsely) promised autonomy by Kornilov. Leadership went through a variety of generals: the charismatic Lavr Kornilov (who was killed by artillery in 1918) who was succeeded by General Alexkseev (who died of heart failure shortly after) and most famously General Denikin. After a series of disasters in 1920 Denikin resigned and replaced by General Wrangel, This force engaged in the largest and fiercest fighting with the Bolsheviks, but was bloated with lots of officers and little fighting men. These forces were the closet you got to genuine monarchists, but while Alexkseev flirted with it Denikin/Wrangel were against it as he knew it'd doom them

-General Yudenich's Northern Russian forces. He was heavily supported by the British and newly independent Baltic states, though after a peace deal with the Bolsheviks the Estonians disarmed and detained his forces. Like Kolchak and the Southern Army, there's no indication Yudenich wanted to restore the Tsar and had cooperated with the provisional government that had overthrown him

-The forces of Ungern Sternberg. This guy was a loon and is fun to read about, but long story short he was a Russian general that converted to Buddhism and tried to revive the Mongol Empire with the deposed Khan (Bogd) as a type of spiritual leader/proxy. His forces conquered much of Mongolia before he moved into Siberia, where he was captured and executed.

>>33933127
-The West Russian volunteer army. Though officially an anti-bolshevik force it was a Germans-supported proxy force that fought against primarily Baltic nationalists in the Baltic states. The group tacitly cooperated with the Bolsheviks despite its affiliation with the white movement, and hindered the Estonian attempt to advance on Petrograd in summer 1918. Their main goal was to protect Baltic German interests in the region. They did not have Allied support and were defeated by Baltic nationalists by 1920.

-Various independent Cossack armies such as the Don Repubic and Orenburg host

-The Finnish White Movement, which was backed by Germany, Sweden, Baltic states, and newly independent Poland. They were internally-focused and sought to defeat the Finnish Bolsheviks. They were the only successful white army.

-The Bashmachi Army. A pan-Turkish army in Central Asia that flirted with Islamism as well as Ataturk’s model of Turkic secularism. It was also allied with a variety of other Central Asian factions such as the Kihvan Khanate and Bukharan Emirate. Their de facto leader was Ottoman Minister of War during WW1 Enver Pasha who died commanding them against the Bolsheviks. Enver was a bit of outcast from Turkey during this time so his only support came from Afghanistan.

The “Black Hundreds”. The only true Tsarist force, they a formerly tsarist-sponsored orthodox religious movement that conducted pogroms. They achieved very little during the Civil War, killing Jewish civilians before being wiped out by both Bolsheviks and Socialist Revolutionarities early in the conflict.

File: Baron_ungern.jpg (23KB, 220x335px) Image search: [Google]

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>>33932777
>*blocks your path*

File: 5AB>@_0E=>.jpg (17KB, 220x340px) Image search: [Google]

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>>33933077
>*ahem*

>>33933172
Makhno had no desires to rule all of Russia. He basically wanted to create a peasant collectivist society in southern Ukraine. He would have been destroyed by somebody eventually

>>33933412
I'm going to have to break out Revolution Under Siege again. It's pretty much my only source on the RCW but it jives with everything you just posted.

>>33932777
>I didn't want to take this to /his/ because they're both faggots
>because they're both faggots
>both

Nice Trips

>>33932894

/pol/ commies and capitalists are both run by da joos argument.

>>33932883
>Of course, you're right he would be limited, he was related to George V of Britain
>>33932809

Friendly reminder that the Royal family of England outright refused to let Nicholas II and his family flee to the UK in 1917. After the Soviets and the Jew that shot him, the House of Windsor is next in line for the Romanovs being murdered.

>>33933027
>But I can't imagine they rapidly industrialising, like Stalin's USSR in 30's

By the turn of the century, Tsarist Russia was the fastest industrializing country in Europe. Bear in mind, not the most industrialized, but the fastest industrializing. Industrialists of the time predicted Russia outstripping the rest of Europe by a long shot by the 30s to 40s.

Communism gave Russia literally nothing good, and its cultural resonance has sealed the fate of our world.

>>33934068
Read People's Tragedy by Orlando Figes it's pretty much 100% accurate

>>33932809
Nobody who is deposed in such a bloody manner ever comes back. Nicholas was despised, the February Revolution was widely popular with the Russians.

>>33934498
>, the February Revolution was widely popular with the Russians.
pizdak wat? the bolshevieks were foreign jews who ruled through terror, my kamchatka ass they were popular

>>33934514
the fact that you think the February revolution had anything to do with the Bolsheviks proves how stupid you are. These "it was da jooz" posters have such little understanding of the basic history.

>>33934565
they call it that after the fact retard, by bolshevieks, provisionals were no better

>>33934578
Stop damage controlling. you obviously didn't even know it existed until you googled it just now

And the Provisional Government was far better than the Bolsheviks despite being more incompetent. Kerensky genuinely wanted to establish a democracy.

File: Bolsheviks.jpg (893KB, 890x4259px) Image search: [Google]

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>>33934514
Bolsheviks weren't Jews. There were Jews but they were a minority. Pic related

>>33934626
Though minorities, they were extremely influential to other jewish communities around the world and many are revered by modern communists in an almost "saint-like" manner. I'm not saying the Jews did it, but some Jews did it.

>>33933133
post more, senpai

>>33934626
Lenin was half Jewish. Your list is wrong.

>>33934772
>and many are revered by modern communists

Modern communists despise Zionism/Israel and are borderline to openly anti-semitic (Jeremy Corbyn, Hugo Chavez, George Galloway, etc.). Connecting them to Jews is hilariously stupid.
>>33934806
same amount of Jewish as hitler then

>>33934803
post what?

>>33934847
No, what I said is that many of these Jewish communist leaders who participated in October Revolution are still revered as communists, not as jews.

>>33934860
More stuff about the Russian Civil war, and let us speculate more trying to figure out alternate timelines. I love these exercises in speculation, really gets my almonds activated.

>>33934498

The Bourbons were put back after Napoleon. and it probably wouldn't have been Nicholas but another Branch of the family.

>>33934476
I need to buy more books. It's been a bit since I've bought some solid history books.

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>>33933155

*teleports behind you


Sorry kid nothing personal but my bolshevik handlers ordered me

>>33932777
No revolution attempt in Germany
No Hitler support
No WW2

>>33932777

Oh yeah, there's no WW2 so Germany casually develops jets and nukes with no interference and does their thing.

>>33934978
There was interim government after the Nicholas abdicated. I'm guessing it would have set up a parliamentary government and perhaps a constitutional monarchy. Similar to England.

Communism might have taken hold in china eventually. Or in other European countries.

>>33932777
My ancestors fought in the white army...

>>33934498
Listening to the kike propaganda.

File: Central Commitee of the Bolshevik Party.jpg (661KB, 1080x1920px) Image search: [Google]

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>>33934626
Even putin admitted that the majority of the leaders in the party were jews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzNp3Grhvh0

>>33933412
He was also a ukrainian nationalist and had pretty strong backing in the areas controlled by the Makhnovshchyna.
If he had marketed himself cleverly as freedom fighter against bolshevism and ukrainian nationalist to the western powers I think he could have made it.

>>33934806
Lenin's heritage was:
25% Chuvash (paternal grandfather)
25% Kalmyk (paternal grandmother)
25% Jewish (maternal grandfather)
12,5% German (maternal great grandfather)
12,5% Swedish (maternal great grandmother)

>>33938240
Putin can say whatever he wants, it doesn't make it true.

Prove that the majority of the people listed above were Jews or fuck off

>>33938240
also pic related is flat-out wrong, this isn't the Central Committee of the USSR at any point. Literally who minor functionaries are listed as members while major non-Jewish figures (Bukharin, Ryhkov) are left out.

This is a bizarre list desu, people are credited with posts they'd never have and the timeline (which is curiously left out, I suspect deliberately). People like Krylenko didn't appear politically relevant for decades later after many of his fellow members here had already died

It's very telling you accept some cellphone screenshot over an established sourced list, like this:

http://www.knowbysight.info/2_KPSS/10029.asp

which indicate that the central committee had a small jewish minority

>>33932777
>How different would the world have worked out had the Russian white army won instead of the red?
Russia would disappear as sovereign state and later would be completely destroyed by Nazi. Amount of money that Tsarists government owned to Allies was unbearable for Russian economy, best part of which was in control of foreign capital.

>>33933133
dunno if you're still here, but could you tell me more about the Finnish whites? I have a growing interest in the subject.
https://youtu.be/SoENzQ-rOd0

>>33933133
Amazing, could I trouble you with some questions?

1. Can you describe in same way various leftist movements in that time in Russia?

2. Was Russia under its last Tzar really industrializing or was he stopping progress?

>>33938142
Simply not because when Niki abdicated no one wanted his post. You had to go really deep into the family line to find someone and there was litteraly no pint in doing that because the Romanovs were unpopular.

>>33938240
Probably because Jews weren't popular in czarist Russia. Not a huge surprise they would join an anti monarchy group.

But the vast majority of Jews didn't get involved. I'm talking about actual religious Jews. Not angry commies and atheists who grew up Jewish.

>>33938240
Read lenins bio. He wasn't Jewish he was a serf.
His wife was half Jewish. But her Jewish mother converted.