What if these were used in WW1? Why weren't they used?

Came too late to the party. Bolt actions were already the standard rifle.

>>33912000
They were.

>>33912000
-Production cost
-manufacturing more than just a few types of ammo was expensive
-more likely to jam when exposed to torture
-harder to clean
-not as replaceable as simple bolt actions

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>>33912000
But they were.

>>33912024
t. bf1 player

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>>33912040
Ok champ.

>>33912040
>>33912057
Wrecked

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>>33912000
They were used. Some of them even killed commies.

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>>33912040

> ivan do you want to trade nugget for Winchester

> nyet I am yankee cow boy shooter

>>33912036
All of what you just said is bullshit

>>33912428

dude, what? all that guys points were valid.. theres a reason militaries didn't adopt lever actions

>>33912428
>>33912438
there were very strongly built, but i imagine they were susceptible to jamming

>>33912036
>manufacturing more than just a few types of ammo was expensive
>-more likely to jam when exposed to torture
What? And no. In that order.

The rest is correct though.

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>>33912438
The m1895 Winchester used the same ammo as nuggets, down to the stripper clips.
If they were used later on, the spare parts would have come along with it's adoption. All guns didn't have spare parts when they were first put into service
Also, a levergun has just as much, if not more space in the chamber. A lever gun will also have more (pun intended) leverage for prying out misfires and other stoppages.

>>33912221
And some of them killed fascist. In Spain, in 1936.

>>33912616
Yes and, killing reds and fascists is good.

>>33912000
lever guns are hard to use when prone and they don't lock up as tight, which you need when you're firing full-bore loads that were in vogue in military thinking at that time.

lever actions are shit thats y

>>33912831
No.
>33912831
(You)

>>33912375
>Йи хa!

>>33912831
Where does this stupid "can't use leverguns prone" shit come from? Nothing is stopping you from rotating the rifle or lifting it.

>>33912968

you have a lever nugget. we fucking get it already.

jesus Christ.

>>33913016
Memes And fuddlore. That is all it is. Not to mention prone shooting wasn't highly thought of for general infantry in the late 19th/early 20th century, when line tactics were still the formation of the day (WW1 would change this obviously).

>>33913030
I've also read a book or two, unlike the people who parrot fucking Fuddlore all damn day here.

>>33912831
>don't lock up as tight, which you need when you're firing full-bore loads that were in vogue in military thinking at that time.

The 1895 was chambered in:
7.62x54r
.30-03
.30-06
.30-40 Krag
.303 British
.405 Winchester

Among others.

>>33913042
Every Line Infantry unit was trained in skirmish tactics from the late 19th on.

The increased rate of fire was deemed not sufficiently high compared to the increased cost of production and loss of durability.

/thread.

>>33913006
kek

>>33913171
Like to see any source on increased cost or relative durability

>>33912057
I used to mess with you about rust and rotting wood and needing to refinish it but I'll have you know I truly love that rifle and am very jealous of it, and I'm glad that someone here won it so that at least I can see pics of it around

>>33913807
Yeah I figured you were trying to fuck with me.

In all honesty I wish these were common and cheap. It's the nicest rifle I have, and I have a lot of nice rifles.

>>33912024
/thread

>>33912040
>only pretending to be retarded

>>33912538
You mean like any machine. Your claims are based on nothing. Not to say it's impossible but you and I both know you just made a baseless assumption

>>33912040
I have one that my direct ancestor personally took from surrendered red guards in 1918

>>33912350
>That gas mask

Fucking metal

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>>33915564
>1918
>red guard
>surrendered
>when Russia pulled out in 1917
My bullshit detector is going off the charts.

>>33915778
Finnish civil war counts as a part of WW1

>>33912538
>but i imagine they were susceptible to jamming

If they were, they would not have been as prized as they were in the Russian army.

>>33913016
>Where does this stupid "can't use leverguns prone" shit come from? Nothing is stopping you from rotating the rifle or lifting it.

I believe that Browning's tube-mag levergun designs will experience issues feeding when tiled to the side, due to the rounds needing to be pushed up the feed ramp. However, I'm also fairly certain that this does not affect the 1895 due to the way it retains rounds in the box magazine.

Also, certain bolt action designs can have issues when trying to feed from a tilted position too.

>>33915778

wasn't there an entente expedition into Russia to stop the communists?

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>>33912831

You're a fucking idiot. Anyone who knows anything about this and the BLR understands that the trigger integral to the lever action removes the "looseness" associated with tubular magged/detached lever mechanics.

A lever with that mechanism locks up just as tight as a bolt, or near enough.


95% of this board is idiots reposting (wrong) information they read here the week before.

I quit paying attention to this board except for vintage aircraft threads when, in the span of two weeks, Soviet Deep Battle theory was put through the short-bus sausage cycle that info filters through here.

Now go buy a fucking Savage in .308 and feel good about yourself, you ignorant fuck.

>>33912831

Just to reitirate, you're a fucking disgrace. A Savage is too good for you.

You are the Mossberg of /k/. Cheap, poor, inaccurate....a shitty fake of a real gun owner.

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>>33915668
Russian gas masks are nightmare fuel.

>>33912616

Which happened because the Soviets sold their old stock of Winchester m/1895 to Republican Spain during Spanish Civil War.

I have some actual shooting experience with these rifles. Compared to bolt-action rifles of the era they feel really strange to handle and shoot - the rifle is long but yet somehow delicate. When lever is pulled down breech opens up in such manner that they must have been really problematic to use in muddy trenches, plus one cannot really load these rifles while prone without canting the rifle a bit - the lever really extends that far downwards. Incidentally canting a rifle a bit also seems good for making extraction more reliable.

>>33917743
>When lever is pulled down breech opens up in such manner that they must have been really problematic to use in muddy trenches

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f59tHO8-HlI

>>33917754

As Ian says on video they did not get any mud on the hammer channel - which considering they did their mud test only once might make this the rare case when that does not happen in such test scenario. Repeating this test for example ten times would actually provide much more reliable data.

Also, I was not thinking primarily about this test scenario (loaded, bolt closed) but the fact that for example during artillery barrage there would be mud and other debris flying around and rifle still needs to be loaded, or that the rifle might be dropped to mud when the action is open (during loading) - in which case it seems not only vulnerable but likely difficult to clear.

Those is just the gut feeling that I got.

>>33915778
t. anon that needs to read a book

>>33912000
They were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL9JKassTD4

>>33917651
Good job on being completely assmad and somewhat wrong. The Winchester 1895 and Browning BLR are only similar in that they have a lever to actuate the rifle, otherwise the BLR has about as much in common with the 95' as it does a Finnwolf or Winchester 88. The 95' uses a similar lockup to the Winchester 86' in that it uses a vertical locking block at the rear of the frame, the 86' had a fixed trigger compared to the 95' but they had functionally the same locking mechanism. The moving trigger of the 95' is in all likelihood a means to clear the box magazine and it does serve the secondary purpose of making it really hard to pinch your finger.
Now the BLR is pretty much a straight pull bolt action that is actuated by a rack and pinion lever, about as far removed from the 95' as you can get while still being a bolt action.
As for the whole idea of weak lockup that is mainly a bit of truth and a whole lot of fuddlore, the older toggle lock rifles did indeed have a rather feeble lockup and for some reason that attribute has been falsely attributed to the 86' and 95' despite a completely different and far stronger locking mechanism. However there is a grain of truth in there, modern loadings of 30-06 are noticeably stronger than their turn of the century counterparts and already attenuated and old 95's can suffer damage and end up with unsafe headspace from prolonged use. Is it a common occurrence? No, but it's happened a few times and that's all it took for a kernel of truth to become 'accepted knowledge' regarding the 1895.

>>33915834

Yet Finnish history writing considers it to be a separate war, which is more closely related to Russian Civil War than World War 1.

>>33917809

Not him, but what he writes is actually pretty legit if he is talking about Finland. Most of Russian soldiers stationed in Finland headed home in year 1917 since nobody was anymore really stopping them and Finnish Red Guards lost Finnish Civil War fought in January - May of 1918.

>>33912000
Lever action guns really shine compared to bolt actions when chambered in a "intermediate" cartridge such as the 30-30. You then get the higher volume of fire (due to larger capacity and faster action) over a bolt action that's advantageous. But the doctrine of the time called for full powered cartridges and when chambered in those, a lever action doesn't really have many advantages over a bolt action. Combine that with the fact that bolt actions are cheaper and there you go. My question is what if one side of the conflict realized that most engagements took place at shorter distances (even in WW1) and issued lever action in something like .44 or 30-30. Maybe by WW2 assault rifle type of guns would have been the norm.

>>33917873
Even if it wasn't, the rifles were here in the first place because they were issued to Russian troops stationed here in 1916 to counter possible German landing.

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>>33912040
???

1. Prone shooting (yes they considered it why do you think the Gew.11 has a smaller mag than the Gew.89)

2. Fragility. Lever guns in military use end up with bent levers. We spent hours unbending a Russian 95.

3. Open action lets in everything. Ians video doesnt account for soaking the thing and going on a week long march. Every exposed bit needs service and fewer exposed bits means easier cleaning.

4. Tip-to-primer. Not a realistic concern in hindsight but one that was held at the time. (note the 8mm lebel safety moat)

5. Shifting point of impact and fragile magazine (tube magazines only)

6. Expense and complication of manufacture. Basically a full cartridge lever gun has more pieces and more complicated shapes than a comparable bolt gun

>>33912000
Lay prone, or propped up along a trench and try to work the lever. There's a reason why bolt actions replaced the lever action.

>>33913042
>Complains about memes
>Posts dumb meme

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>>33912040
t. contrarian

>>33912350
Better resolution

>>33917651
The BLR can handle powerful rounds because it has what is essentially an AR-style rotating bolt driven by a rack and pinion system. That way the bolt locks up with the barrel extension and leaves the receiver only lightly stressed, whereas John Browning's Wichester designs place the locking blocks towards the rear of the bolt and require the receiver to bear the stress. It has literally zero to do with whether the trigger moved with the lever or not.

And by most accounts the BLR has a terrible trigger.

>>33917803
>As Ian says on video they did not get any mud on the hammer channel

He also says it probably would have been carried with the hammer down, negating the risk entirely.

Regardless, plenty of sources show that they were quite popular and preferred to the Mosin among the soldiers.

>>33912000
>What if these were used in WW1?

they were

>Why weren't they used?
they were

/thread

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>>33918835
>>33918715
>Better resolution
Gratzi.

>plenty of sources show that they were quite popular and preferred to the Mosin among the soldiers.
Could you provide those sources, please?