Waterboarding

>>33881835
It isn't. Torture isn't effective at all.

/Thread

>>33883174
Yes it is. If you want someone to talk, and you know they know something. As a means of determining guilt or innocence, it doesn't work at all.

>>33883186
Oh fuck off you retarded tripfag.

When every major expert agrees it's not only ineffective, but also counterproductive and a powerful recruiting tool against those who use it, your shitty fucking opinion doesn't count.

>>33883186
OK, but if they know nothing they just lie. And let's face it, nobody knows anything. Abdul ackbar doesn't know where IS stores weapons, Mohammad doesn't know where Syria stores the goy bombs, it's useless.

I do, however, condone the torture of middle easterners for any reason, so my argument is invalid.

>>33883222
No need to tell anyone and bodies can be disposed of. In conjunction with other methods torture could be useful. That's why criminals use it, and in modern war against enemies who deserve to be exterminated there's no moral objection.

If other methods fail and your subject will disappear into night and fog, why not? I'd use dehydration instead of conventionally painful methods.

People who object to torture do so from a moral perspective, but eliminate that nonsense and it is merely a way to apply stress. For example a torturer could offer to stop if the information proves useful, but promise to return with more terrifying methods if the subject lies.

There isn't any published modern work on extreme torture for legal reasons, but the NKVD and Gestapo had some successes as did the Communists running the Hanoi Hilton.

>>33884854
See, the problem comes when you compare it to other methods.

Sure, it might work eventually, but any information you get from that asset is inherently more unreliable, and a mix of truth in lies is as useless from an intelligence perspective as pure lies.

Whereas if you turn people who want to be turned, you have a high probability of getting everything, and getting reliable, actionable intelligence.

>>33881835
Torture just gets you the fastest lie to make the pain stop OP
that said torture is an effective punishment but not an effective way to obtain Information
>>33883174 is right

>>33881835
I've accidentally waterboarded myself a couple times when I was younger and used to take hot baths. My house wasn't level (none of my houses ever were), so there was a small backwards tilt, and in the bath I would sometimes place a rag over my face to just feel the hot water, with the rag you can breathe normally through it without breathing in water. One day I wanted to know how it'd feel to have the hot bath water hit the rag directly, and I panicked immediately, coughing like hell.

It wasn't fun, it was only for a couple seconds but I can see why it counts as torture if done for a bit.

>>33881835
how is waterboarding even real lmao just hold your breath nigga lol

>>33883186
>If you want someone to talk, and you know they know something.
You will be fed bullshit until you get what you believe to be the truth.

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>>33883186

>>33884854
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/04/top-interrogation-experts-agree-torture-doesnt-work.html

>>33885108
Kek

>>33883186
You're seriously retarded. Go read John McCain's account of being tortured. He'd lie just to get it to stop at times. There's a reason when people are interrogated by a smart detective, they aren't tortured. It's all about gaining trust from someone. Ever notice they give people food and try to identify with them?

Torture works when you have the intelligence to know what that person in particular knows.

It was used to destroy a terrorist organization in Algeria by the French Military.

>>33885576
John McCain is a retard, he wouldn't tell the truth in his book.

>>33885608
You mean the Algeria that France eventually lost control of? That Algeria?

Yeah, he's a retard. You fucking dumb kid. He was tortured for over 5 years in the Hanoi Hilton. He had a chance to get out early due to his dad being an admiral but he had the honor to refuse it until the others were released as well.

You need to get to bed, kid.

>>33885608
>Torture works when you have the intelligence to know what that person in particular knows.
Then why are they torturing them if they already know?

>>33885856
Only thing I could assume is if there's another piece of information they need, and they use the bits they already know as a "If he's bullshitting" test or not

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>>33883174
>implying that if a hot girl in a dominatrix outfit were torturing you and ordered you to tell her what your mission objectives are so your mouth is free to drink her piss you wouldn't do it

>>33885701
McCain was a brat. He is also a traitor to the Nation and recorded many propaganda broadcasts for the NVA.

>>33887429
>hot girl in a dominatrix outfi

Will it be Natalia? I do like Natalia..

>>33887533
Being bullied by one of my many waifus, I'm not sure how to feel about this.

>>33883174
waterboarding isn't torture, you idiot

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>>33887600
>my many waifus
You should feel like a piece of shit, desu baka senpai

>>33881835
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Torture,_interrogation_and_intelligence

Torture is regarded by experts to be extremely effective, notice his example of using pigs blood on Islamic extremists and how effective it is.

>>33883174
Most effective way to find cryptographic keys to locked equipment is torture of its owner.

>>33887620
>waterboarding isn't torture, you idiot
Only when the Good Guys™ are doing it.

When the Khmer Rouge did it, it was definitely torture.

>>33887832
Fuck off, Jack Bauer.

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>>33887865
Waterboarding is such child's play really. Its just reeks of "we want to torture but we are scared somebody will found out our little game because you know it actually illegal and stuff". Did you see Mexican face flaying? I am pretty sure you just show such example to anyone on this board and they will shit their pants and tell everything they know with no bullshit and lies.

>>33883174
not exactly true
>>33884953
this is closer to the truth
if you can verify the intel fast enough then resorting to torture might work because the guy knows you will just resume harder once his information falls through. if you have no way of verifying the intel it's worthless. if you can then probably it was something you could have obtained otherwise.

>>33881835
waterboarding is college hazing tier

>>33888490
That or what the Russians do in the Levant. They'll confirm the identity of a terrorist, then conduct a capture mission on their family. Then threaten to execute them in the most horrible way.

>>33888863
>if you can then probably it was something you could have obtained otherwise.
Safe houses, stashes of weapons and information, contacts, communication protocols. All these most precocious information of about underground networks is easily verifiable but difficult to obtain with other methods.

>>33888490
>Using the family everybody else in ASOIAF thinks goes too far with their skeevy obsession with flaying as an example

>>33889241
You do realize the Russians don't give a flying fuck about their reputation, right? Everybody expects them to be brutal assholes. Prior to OIF/OEF the US had a rep for humane treatment of prisoners, and the Bush admin completely assfucked that.

>>33889281
[citation needed], Jack.

>>33890553

Being brutal assholes means you get better immediate returns. The US is stuck offering naturalisation to Afghanis in return for info on maneuvers that are 3 months old.

>>33881835
It's effective if you make person who you're waterboarding believe that you know a lot of shit about subject. If he sees you know nothing, he will just lie

>>33890668
>Being brutal assholes means you get better immediate returns.
And create more enemies and fuck you a lot harder in the long run. No short-term gain is worth the damage it causes.

>>33883174
>>33883186
in the army they told us to tell them little bits of info at a time or false information

>tfw was small time actor before i enlisted and probably would get killed by telling convincing lies that are found out to be false