Russian will defend this

ECM > Armor

Americans will remain mad about this.

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>>33855703
both tank have ECM
what is your point?
>>33855709
T-72/T-90/T-80
>our tank have autoloader
>smaller silhouette is better

design a bigger tank than Abrams
>turret armor are over rate
>bigger tank is better

>>33855721
>Doctrine never changes
That's why Americans are stuck with a Cold War era self-propelled anti-tank gun instead of a proper MBT.

T-14 turret is unmanned, no reason it can't have decent armor while being slightly smaller.

>>33855690
>>33855721
Larger tank has more hit points. Finally Russian got the art of building heavy tanks. Weakling midgets are history.

>>33855737
nothing in the military has changed since the cold war, right? nigga you dumb

>>33855874
Still lacking a two barreled gun.

>>33855958
That's the opposite of my argument, dummy.

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>>33855966
Stay jelly.

lets see how many JDAMs it can take

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>>33856005
Let's see how many missiles whatever your JDAMs are strapped to can take.

>>33855690
Still smaller and lighter than M1A2 and latest Leo2 mods.

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>>33856010
Let's see how many missiles you can get off on target when your radar is swamped with decoys.

>>33856024
Lighter, not smaller. It is both taller and longer than any western tank.

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>>33856080
Let's see how many trillions you can spend on decoys to saturate modern IADS before you go bankrupt.

>>33856111
>Don't know that Pantsir can shoot down HARM missiles
Actually, any proper AA can kill targets like HARM missiles.

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>>33856111
>long wave search radar
>able to do any form of target recognition
Try again.
And to answer your question, the order was $118.5 million and the US expects to have well over 1500 by 2020, completly negating russian air defenses.

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>>33856165
>Tiny decoy
>Able to saturate modern IADS in any way
Try again.

>>33855737
Russian still using thousand of T-80 and T-72

>>33856188
>using C. Kopp's graphics
SAD!

>>33856188
It isn't a tiny decoy, it is specifically designed to mimic the radar signature of a modern fighter jet.

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>>33856188

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>>33855690
better pic

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>>33856332
That are much less of self-propelled anti-tank guns like M1 and much more for the actual MBTs.
>>33856350
It is exactly a tiny decoy and if you are going to assume it is able to saturate modern IADS in any way you better try again.

>>33856408
I am not claiming it is "saturating" anything, I am merely adding that the radar signature is not as small as the craft itself.
The idea of that object, contrary to what >>33856080
seems to believe, it is meant to confuse the radar operator into believing that what they are firing upon is a real aircraft, not jam the radar or anything.

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>>33856408
>it is able to saturate modern IADS
That is exactly what it can do.
If you think russian IADS can identify state of the art decoys from stealth aircraft and precision guided munitions, you got another thing coming, and that's without standoff jammers. The long wave radars you keep mastrubating to can barely distinguish an F-16 from a B-52 because that's how long wave radars behave.
You use them for early warning to get your other radars pointing in the right direction. Too bad your search radar will see ~250 targets, 12 of which are legit aircraft and you got 36 missiles to spread around them all.
Vatnik operators will shake in rage as us pilots fly victory laps far above them.

>>33856408
>>33856471
Here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZyL-zEoMfM&app=desktop

>>33856471
>it is meant to confuse the radar operator into believing that what they are firing upon is a real aircraft, not jam the radar or anything
Mostly correct but the MALD-J does have jamming capability. Maybe not enough to cover jam for a friendly aircraft but defenitly to jam for itself and if you get a couple of them together against a single radar you can seriously hamper it.
One thing that got people so excited about drone swarms is how they can simulate a radar aperture of a massive size giving new and exciting possibilities to both detection and jamming. MALD-J is an early step there.

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>>33855690

Why are Shartnik's so obsessed with Russia?

It's a fucking country with the GDP of Italy... This is almost unhealthy.

>>33856543
They keep insisting they are militarily relevant.

>>33856543
Have you not noticed the half a dozen threads created daily where vatniks radiate their butthurt over the growing weakness and insignificance of russia?
Besides, russia being the butthurt capital of the world, trolling them into fits of barely coherent rage is comedy gold.

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>>33856024

>>33856543
Imagine if every say you pushed yourself, training as hard as you can to beat your rival, for years. The stronger they are, the harder you push yourself in order to overcome them, reaching heights of prowess never before dreamed possible.

Then imagine your rival quits and descends into an alcoholic stupor, watching TV all day and beating his wife, while still incoherently rambling about how he could take you.

>>33856579
It's not just them being retards, it's the sheer scale at which that bullshit spreads and constantly gets repeated.

>>33856637

This

>something happens that puts russia in a bad light
>1.3 seconds later an RT story appears with a total """""factual""""" recounting of what happened.
>forever and ever that version is the only true story to vatniks

There are still Vatniks, right now, on this board and most likely itt, that think only 23 missiles hit that Syrian airbase. After the third party confirmed strikes via sat. After DOD released a presser. After Syrians said more than 23 hit.

>>33856617
>Then imagine your rival quits and descends into an alcoholic stupor, watching TV all day and beating his wife, while still incoherently rambling about how he could take you.
Drunk's still right you know. Should have bombed the Soviets before '63.

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>>33856471
The point is not how big its radar signature it, but how weak its capabilities are being hampered by its size. I know what the idea behind these decoys are, but the assumption that it can saturate any modern IADS network by successfully faking real aircraft signature is ludicrous to say the least. It could work with some ancient SA-2 systems and P-40 radars, I give you that.
>>33856483
>Here is a video:
I can show you a Russian military ad too, so what? The video doesn't prove anything. It's a cheap CGI cartoon used for advertisement.
>>33856472
>That is exactly what it can do.
That's exactly what you keep dreaming it can do, but in real life it don't. If you think that state of the art IADS can't identify tiny decoys from aircraft and PGM, you are delusional, and that's without truly standoff EW systems. The long wave radars you keep discarding are bound in a network that processes not just data from each radar in particular, but return from all radars at once. You can proceed with your Neanderthal way of seeing it as a mere tool of early warning while your 250 tiny useless decoys are getting puzzled out like a kid that tries to lie to an adult or like that "stealth" drone that Iran landed using a Russian ECM system.
>Diagram F-35 2011 MALD AE(...).gif
It's especially hilarious how even an ad infographic doesn't hope for it to be effective against anything better than P-40.

>>33856188
Good thing those radars all have different effective ranges and will have to attend to coordinate multiple radars effectively across upwards of 40+ to a hundred multiple different Radar signatures for verification wasting precious time when every second matters.

People also seem to completely ignore that simultaneous tracking does not equal simultaneous engagement. Each launcher only has 2-4 missiles loaded and then must spend time reloading. This enables the initial MALD engagement mixed with HARMS/Other to cause IADS to spotlight themselves and spend their load on effectively worthless targets. This allows the second strike with strike packages against a minimally armed IADS during the reloading dwell period for the launchers.

This forces an IADS to either hold back launches and allow initial wave to do more damage/penetration or respond in full to first wave and then take higher casualties in follow on strike.

The doctrine/capability the MALD and other capabilities provides puts advantage on the attacking force and forces the defender to make hard decisions that will ultimately still result in losses either way.

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>>33856840
>Each launcher only has 2-4 missiles loaded
Lol. Anyway, you keep assuming that useless tiny decoys can saturate modern IADS while presenting virtually zero evidence of its capabilities. And it's not just that, it's also the fact that the US has never met any IADS in combat and the closest they ever got to a single functioning Russian system that is but one element of the IADS network is when 10 years ago Slovaks allowed them to play around an obsolete S-300 variant at some exercises. The assumption that the US can simply shit out of nowhere an effective countermeasure to what they have no experience with is ludicrous.

>>33856811
Nice job building a huge strawman there.

>>33856884
>The assumption that the US can simply shit out of nowhere an effective countermeasure to what they have no experience with is ludicrous.
SIGINT/ELINT exist buck-a-roo.

And again it has fuck-all to do with saturation via power. It has to do with delaying/confusing the IADS long enough to cause it to misidentify or take more time/effort to correctly identify targets that takes valuable time in a engagement that last maybe 1-2 minutes. Even if it only takes 3-5 seconds per Decoy to verify it's a decoy, that's more seconds off the running clock they have for viable engagement window.

>>33856811
>but the assumption that it can saturate any modern IADS network by successfully faking real aircraft signature is ludicrous to say the least.

It's quite literally it's entire reason for existing, and the SAS covers VHF, UHF, and all microwave wavelengths. If it was for ancient systems, it would not be broadband.

It's the 180 opposite. There is zero reason for the radar to believe what it's own sensors tell it is false.

Worse, with mald-J, you have no choice not to shoot it down.

>>33856884

Well, with that logic the assumption that Russian IADN can deal with modern US stealth is ludicrous because the closeist they ever got was a now discontinued gen .5 stealth aircraft shot down almost 20 years ago.

>>33856884
>US has never met IADS in combat
1991, 2003.
I somewhat vaguely remember one time where Israel flew over a bunch of Russian made SAMs and managed to avoid getting shot down using nothing but F-16s.

>>33856087
>Lighter
And looks like not lighter. T-14 tracks contact area is larger than Abrams tank. So it is designed for similar or heavier weight. "Soviet fanboys small cuck tanks are good" completely and forever BTFO.

>>33857171
Russian tanks always have large track area because their country is mostly mud.

I read somewhere that this is a reflection of the Russian armed forces being more of a defensive army now, as compared to the soviets who wanted to zergrush? I mean, Zerglings are smaller than Siege Tanks...

>>33856543
>GDP of Russia: 1.326 trillion USD (Per capita)
>GDP of Italy: 29,847.05 USD (Per capita)

Woah. Like basically the same.

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>>33856811
>If you think that state of the art IADS can't identify tiny decoys from aircraft and PGM, you are delusional, and that's without truly standoff EW system

It's obvious you are high of vodka and krokodil vapor at this point.
You keep ranting about how your precious radars can distinguish a decoy from a target but if you could that you might as well be able to sort out the true RCS of the F-22 behind the Luneburg lenses. That's how retarded you sound.
Besides, decoys and PGMs are extremely similar in dimensions, it's beyond retarded to think any radar system can detect any difference between them.
With jamming from Growlers, Compass Call, MALD-J and on board jammers, all the SAM operators will get is a garbled mess with hundreds of potential targets and the distant laugher of US pilots.

>>33857514
>1.326 trillion USD (Per capita)
dude...

>>33857514
So now Russia is the most wealthiest nation?

>>33857514
I can't tell if this is bait, are you literally retarded

GDP (Millions of US$)
Italy: 1,800,000
Russia: 1,560,000

Really makes ya think.

Tanks are retarded and have no place on the modern battlefield

>>33857514
>>GDP of Russia: 1.326 trillion USD (Per capita)
>>GDP of Italy: 29,847.05 USD (Per capita)
How stupid or in denial someone must be to post something like this and not even get how obviously wrong it is? My guess is you must be russian.

>inb4 it was just a prank, you all mad, i laugh about you being mad
No, if you piss yourself we aint mad, it makes you just and idiot.

>>33857514
http://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/russia/italy

Maskirovka doesn't work well with krokodil.

>>33855690
they have to. all the russians on the internet who post on foreign boards are putins paid shillboys.

>>33856543
you should never make a post with a pic that's more interesting than the post itself.

>>33856543
>Shartnik
What is this even supposed to mean?

>>33856941
>It has to do with delaying/confusing the IADS
It rather has to do with delaying/confusing SA-2. Since that's all what it is factually capable of.
>>33856980
The entire reason for it existing is quite literally to avoid losing aircraft the next time the US faces some antique 50s SAM systems.
>There is zero reason for the radar to believe
>He thinks radars operate by reason and belief
Lol, unitedstatian/10.
>with mald-J, you have no choice not to shoot it down
On the contrary, a tiny easily distinguishable decoy poses no threat to any modern IADS.
>>33857044
So pretty close then, compared to americans exercising with one obsolete Slovak S-300 not integrated with anything.
>>33857164
>1991
I said modern IADS, not rusted late 50s stationary mid range SAMs in the middle of nowhere.
>2003
Lol, even more hilarious. I know americans are being brainwashed into thinking Iraqi SAMs were "very very stronk" so that the victory over rusted export SA-2 systems can be presented as propaganda for american military junk on the market, but I have never seen anyone going full retard claiming in 2003 rusted and mostly destroyed Iraqi junk qualified as IADS too.
>Israel flew over a bunch of Russian made SAMs
Yeah, it happened during the Yom Kippur War, and IAF got slaughtered by a tiny mobile Kub system.

>>33857540
Accusations of retardness coming from a jingoist amerishit making false analogies are sure comedy gold. Get off moonshine, crask or whatever shit you are usually on while waving the floorcloth you call a flag all over the internet, nigger.
>Besides, decoys and PGMs are extremely similar in dimensions
What makes you think someone will allow you to get anywhere near the target? It's not Iraqis armed with 50s shit. Your bombers will be intercepted, your fighters will be shit down and whatever standoff weapons you will manage to launch will be distinguished and disposed of.
>With jamming from Growlers, Compass Call, MALD-J and on board jammers
With jamming from Krasikha-4 and Murmansk-BN your jammers won't even know where the ground is without optical confirmation.

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>>33857854
I believe it refers to this part of the culture of the land of the brave:
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/shart-in-mart

>>33857900
>Russian IADS predictably gets ruined by American SEAD
NOT MODERN
MONKEY MODEL
RUSTED OUTDATED
NOT REAL

>Israel flies past S300s without getting shot down
>Vatnik focuses on something else entirely

>>33857908
>What makes you think someone will allow you to get anywhere near the target?
Experience fighting russian SAMs has shown that they're more than willing to let aircraft within striking distance : ^ )
That's what the motors on the decoy are for anyways.
>Bombers will be intercepted
>Fighters will be intercepted
>Missiles will be intercepted
Good luck intercepting a B-2 or F-35 when you can't even intercept non stealthy tomahawks with advance notice.

>Muh undeadable Russian jammers
Worked so well on the Turks, didn't they?

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Why don't they use satellites to bounce off the top of jets instead of just solely using stuff off the ground?

>>33857960
Are we /his/posting now?

Include me in the screencaps

Actually... Don't

>>33857928
Okay, so just another buttmad, half assed try to find something in response to vatnik.

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>>33857945
God damnit I forgot my picture.

>>33857945
>Russian IADS predictably gets ruined by American SEAD
Things that never happened.
>Experience fighting russian SAMs
So experience against SA-2 is Iraq.
>Good luck intercepting a B-2 or F-35
It's americans who will need luck getting past Russian IADS, since luck and miracle are the only two things that will allow them to avoid getting shot on sight is the decide to get silly and play world's shittiest policeman around Russia.
>Worked so well on the Turks
What the fuck are you even talking about, imbecile?

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>>33857985
There is no need to shart in your computer chair. You have Wallmart for this.
:^)

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>>33858004
>Iraq 1&2 never happened
>Experience against SA-2 in Iraq
Don't forget the other missiles they had. There's also Vietnam, Libya, Yugoslavia, and now Syria off the top of my head.

>Americans who need luck getting past Russian IADS (broken english whining)
USAF hasn't had issues getting past Russian SAMs before, you can keep your luck.
>What are you talking about
Behold, the mighty Su-24 with its jammers powerful enough to make an entire ship's crew quit from a simple flyby, eating a Turkish missile.

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>>33857514
ya done goofed

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I think our friend OD'd on krokodil.
RIP.

>>33858059
>Iraq had modern IADS in 1991, let alone in 2003
Brainwashed american/10.
>Don't forget the other missiles they had
The most modern system they had was point defence SA-8 from 1971. They didn't even have SA-5. Just mid range SA-2 at best.
>There's also Vietnam, Libya, Yugoslavia
All armed with the same rusted 50s junk, none having IADS. And no, a bunch of gooks with AAA and radios is not IADS.
>USAF hasn't had issues getting past Russian SAMs before
It hasn't had issues because it never attempted to, knowing that it will get slaughtered.
>Su-24
>Krasukha-4, Murmansk-BN
>Any jammers at all
Get off moonshine, crask or whatever shit you are usually on while waving the floorcloth you call a flag all over the internet, nigger.

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>>33858157
>Implying I meant IADS when I mentioned Vietnam
Reconsider posting on english websites if your grasp of english is this terrible. I brought up Vietnam in the first place since you seem to be fixating on SA-2s.
>rusted 50s junk
Yeah sure.
>Never attempted to
I'd point you to all the times they did, but you'd just say HURR NO EVIDENCE RUSSIA HAS PERFECT SAMS and we'd do this all day. Everybody who's not a brain damaged vatnik or russiaboo knows you're either wrong or lying.

>Su-24 doesn't have jammers
But that would mean Vatniks were lying about the Donald Cook flyby. As we all know, Vatniks are 100% right all of the time.

>>33858201
About the Donald Cook, the way KRET denied it was fucking hilarious. Something along the lines of : "it didn't happen because the Su-24 didn't have that jammer, but it totally could have happened".

>>33858201
>I... I didn't mean to talk about the topic I am trying to banter about
Sure you didn't. Next time you want to shart better run to Walmart.
>Yeah sure.
Indeed.
>all the times they did
More like all the times they did not.
>Implying Su-24 has jammers
Like I said, get off moonshine, crack or whatever shit you are usually on while waving the floorcloth you call a flag all over the internet, nigger.
>>33858242
Dat amerishit backpedaling, top kek. They didn't say "it totally could have happened", retard, they said "This EW system can completely neutralise the enemy radar, but Khibiny are not installed on Su-24".

eyyyyyy lmfao fatniks you starting with your bullshit again?

the answer as always is no, you can't take on russia

so the russians went and actually built a 21st century tank, whilst the fatnik flagship is a """stealth""" fighter

there's no reason to be butthurt about the fact

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>>33857908
>russia
>able to intercept anything
Nice meme

>Krasikha-4 and Murmansk-BN
>USA has a long and proud tradition of shitting all over russian made gear with jamming
>russia takes babby steps by mounting basic EW gear on a flat bed
>varniks evrywhere goes AYY HOL UP, YOU BE SAYIN WE WUZ JAMMERS N SHEEEIT???
Vatnigger plz, russia has just begun to dabble in an area the US has already mastered.

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>>33858294
>along the lines of
>along the lines of
>along the lines of


And out of your sheer stupidity you just confirmed my statement. Oh well, I suppose reading comprehension isn't going to be your strong suit when you think RT writes decent articles.

>>33858343

WHO the fuck has the US ever jammed besides some jihadis with walkie-talkies LMAO come ON

nigger, the US army has GIVEN UP their EW capabilities and now RELY on some decrepit Growler flyby from the Navy

meanwhile Russians have entire EW divisions

give me a break

>>33857908
>Your bombers will be intercepted, your fighters will be shit down and whatever standoff weapons you will manage to launch will be distinguished and disposed of.
You are now aware that the US literally has more Active F-16's than Russia's ENTIRE fighter/multi-role force including Naval assets.

>>33858356
You are talking to the Armatard, if you want a quick rundown on that guy, just look at the longer posts from the archive search: http://desuarchive.org/_/search/text/armatard/
Its always the same with him: he vatnik spergs out, gets BTFO, no one agrees with him but that doesnt matter to him, he falls back to repeating the same phrase over and over and declaring his win, then limps away only to repeat it a few weeks or days later.

>>33858363
>Iraq wars never happened
Russia could barely jam off the shelf consumer walkies in Ukraine.
The US has specialized EW aircraft, which for several reasons are far superior to truck mounted ones, organized in entire wings while russia has fuckall in the way of dedicated EW aircraft.

>>33858568
Sounds like Muh Scenerio Stands guy. But Russian.

Fucking communists

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This tank hasn't seen any combat whatsoever. It's a totally new design and concept for the Russian military and any conventional tank design.. so shit.. just look at it objectively. Being American I'm naturally biased towards the M1 Abrams, but I find this T-14 interesting. Don't call it shit if it hasn't even been combat tested.

>>33858665
>Don't call it shit if it hasn't even been combat tested.

Why can't we? I mean, the vatniks are saying it'd fuck up any western tank while being basically invulnerable, we ought to shit on it if only to balance out all the shilling.

>>33858886
Actually... that's a fair point. Shit talk the shit out of their shit.

>>33857900
>Yeah, it happened during the Yom Kippur War, and IAF got slaughtered by a tiny mobile Kub system.
But they lost the war, it ended with Israeli troops in the suburbs of both Damascus and Cairo. The AA systems in place, while effective for the first few days, were ultimately completely destroyed by the IAF, which allowed CAS to be given to the Israelis, which enabled ground troops to advance.
>So pretty close then, compared to americans exercising with one obsolete Slovak S-300 not integrated with anything.
Cyprus was actually given an S-300 in 2008-2009, they let the British and US look at that one because of RAF Akrotiri.
>All armed with the same rusted 50s junk, none having IADS. And no, a bunch of gooks with AAA and radios is not IADS.
Vietnam had probably the best IADS after only the USSR, in fact many Soviets were actually stationed there as operators for the most advanced equipment around Hanoi.

>>33855856
most data suggests thee turret is nearly unarmored considering the 35% bigger than a t90ms yet only 45tons. no one will die but instant mission kill if it's hit by ke

>>33858596
Yep, he plagues almost every thread on /k/ tangentially related to Russia and Russians. The only way to truly be rid of him for a while is to either wait until he falls into a vodka-induced stupor and the thread dies or wait for the handful of posters that are almost as autistic as he is but are infinitely more knowledgeable to show up and BHTFO.

>>33857514
>GDP of Italy 1.815 trillion USD (fixed that for you)
>GDP of Russia: 1.326 trillion USD

>Woah. Like basically the same.

Why do we keep bad mouthing Italy? They have a way bigger economy then Russia. The closet match is Australia at a GDP of 1.339 trillion USD. They even share a national hobby of shit posting.

>>33857900
>The entire reason for it existing is quite literally to avoid losing aircraft the next time the US faces some antique 50s SAM systems.

then why is it broadband?

>>33859533
Because some people still don't realize that the US has ELINT/SIGINT capability or that it even exist.

>>33859597
No, mald SAS system is broadband, and active. It's receiving said radar signals and sending them back perfectly, and more powerfuly in a manner that says "this is a f-16" or whatever.

I can't see a way around this, even for an S-400/500 system.

If it was just for 50s systems it would be a luneberg lense, or a monoband system.

>>33856080
supersonic grid fins are just too lewd

>>33858596
Muh Scenario still posts? I love his threads. Chicoms are so stupid. My fav was when he said that one chinese carrier could take out two of our carrier task forces. In his scenario the US Navy always disregarded it's own doctrine and everyone in the US Navy was blind, deaf, and dumb. Meanwhile the chinese magically knew where the carriers and planes where at all times and even knew when they were landing and what weapons they had. He had to have made at least $50 on that thread alone.

>>33860447
Was he the same guy who was shooting down AMRAAMS in DCS with a SU-25s cannon?

>>33859689
>guys we can't steer supersonic missiles and space rockets, how fix
>I have bits of a metal walkway from a chicken abattoir, lets put them on a doorhinge

I like simplicity.

>>33859689
Those are subsonic. And I think they jettison post-separation anyways.

>>33859210
They lost the war because they couldn't fight for shit and were incapable of using the enormous advantage that Kub gave them. Was Israel operating Kubs Arabs would have been slaughtered with likely zero aircraft lost on the side of IAF.
>Cyprus was actually given an S-300 in 2008-2009, they let the British and US look at that one because of RAF Akrotiri.
I am unaware of this, but once again: first, one system is not a representative of IADS, S-300 is not some magic that denies any air superiority, its integration with other assets is; and second, it was likely the same old system with old 5V54 missiles or whatever was the designation.
>Vietnam had probably the best IADS
Vietnam had a large network that consisted of a bunch of gooks with radios. Their AAA guns, IIRC, took more aircraft than missiles. But even disregarding that. A tiny country with some SA-2 and a bunch of AAA guns costed americans 10000 aircraft. It was long ago and both offence and defence changed, but it gives you the idea of how effective it is even it's just farmers with radios of ZSU-2-23, or what was it.

>>33862463
>A tiny country with some SA-2 and a bunch of AAA guns costed americans 10000 aircraft.
Only about 3,000 were fixed wing assets, rest were Rotary wing which would not be used for disabling of an IADS in modern war. That's also from 6 Million + sorties.

>>33860860
Probably. His scenarios always depended on impossible shit and coincidences.

>>33862463
Sa-2 was state of the art in Vietnam.

>>33863958
Hell so was radar guided spaags and radar guided AAA guns the NVA was employing.

Calling it rusty guns is full fucking retard.

USA is fucking finished
All USADF shilling wouldn't help their rusty army against real russian weapon

>>33864008
What's that? Your manlet Air Force led by a manlet leader?

>>33855690
Well you'd be a shitty infantry soldier if you didn't defend your fellow soldiers, regardless of what division they serve.

>>33863186
You're just jealous he can back up his talk with plausible scenarios and intelligent facts. While all you guys do is post some false information being propagated by the US military.

>>33856165
...if they're so cheap why not strap JDAMs to them?

>If you ignore the decoy, it wins

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>>33864049
they fly to your momma

>>33858585
>Russia could barely jam off the shelf consumer walkies in Ukraine.
They are likely listening on it. Remember all those articles about how the Russian artillery just basically bombed Ukrainian positions because they made the fatal mistake of emitting signals?

>The US has specialized EW aircraft, which for several reasons are far superior to truck mounted ones, organized in entire wings while russia has fuckall in the way of dedicated EW aircraft.
How would they be far superior to trucks? Last I checked trucks can mount bigger and badder systems since they don't need to fight gravity.

Even screeching Russians admit M1A2 is best tank, same as they view F-22.
(Except price XDDD
But US can afford it)

Others aside, high profile of T-14 primarily due to its height is huge drawback, not to mention most of active Russian tanks are outdated.

>>33864426
>even screeching Russians admit M1A2 is best tank
M1A2 against t72b3 is fucking trash
It's like M60 against T64 lose in everything except optics

>>33859405
>yet only 45tons
More in the know people say its actually close to 55 tons.


>>33859670
>It's receiving said radar signals and sending them back perfectly,
If.

>>33864439
>faggot never heard of what happened to commie tanks in Gulf war
>bait tier shitposting

>>33864485
>If.

It's basically a feedback loop with an adjustable amp. It's retarded in how simplistic it is, and there is no way for the radar to "know" its receiving augmented signals. Because it is the very signal it sent out.

>>33864413
>How would they be far superior to trucks? Last I checked trucks can mount bigger and badder systems since they don't need to fight gravity.
For one they have a massive amount of energy to draw from in the engines, each alone being far more powerful than what powers a flatbed, you'd need dedicated power generators on trucks to get close.
Another is that you are wrong on weight limitations, a C-130 can carry 20,400 kg which is the same as the Kamaz trucks russia uses to hail their EW.
Then you have the increased range and mobility of an aircraft.
Most importantly you have the horizon and ability to reach beyond terrain.
Many vatniks understanding of jamming come from video games, thinking that you creat a bubble of jammed area. In reality you need to point antennas towards the target, terrain can interfere and mountains will block. This limits the usefulness of truck mounted jamming to spitting distance and starting a jammer is to announce your location to anyone with any kind of SIGINT equipment. Airborne assets can cover from enormous distances.

>>33864439
>t72b3
>still uses IR floodlights
>good
T72b3 are a speed bump at best, a burning grave for 3 malnourished vatniks in any scenario not bullying Ukraine.

>>33864366
That part comes later in the MALD-V currently in testing.
It has an explosive payload and can be ordered to attack any radar that is discovered.

>>33864280
When you are using video games to baxk up your points you are truly desperate.

>>33864712
Right now mald is accurate enough to hit stuff. They tested terminal accuracy and it hit the same hole twice.

Just no boom.

Standby for sauce

>>33864589
>It's basically a feedback loop with an adjustable amp. It's retarded in how simplistic it is, and there is no way for the radar to "know" its receiving augmented signals. Because it is the very signal it sent out.
That's fucking impossible. You need to separate the output frequency to as much as the sensitivity of your repeater's receiver can handle otherwise the transmitted output fucking interferes with your receiver as it receives the input.

>>33864662
>you'd need dedicated power generators on trucks to get close.
Which they have. They can even connect to the fucking mains grid.


>Another is that you are wrong on weight limitations, a C-130 can carry 20,400 kg which is the same as the Kamaz trucks russia uses to hail their EW.
And you have a C-130 based Jammer?

>Then you have the increased range and mobility of an aircraft.
Not relevant to the defence.

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>>33864728

>>33864766
>And you have a C-130 based Jammer?

And your credibility goes out the window.

>>33864766
>That's fucking impossible.

>feedback loops are impossible

K.

>You need to separate the output frequency to as much as the sensitivity of your repeater's receiver can handle

You assume the output is omnidirectional. It's not.

If you have a problem with it, contact raytheon and tell them they are doing the impossible.

>>33864766
>That's fucking impossible. You need to separate the output frequency to as much as the sensitivity of your repeater's receiver can handle otherwise the transmitted output fucking interferes with your receiver as it receives the input.
>this amount of retardese
Did you have a stroke?
Are you watching Star Trek and just repeated some technobabble off Spock?
Nothing of what you wrote makes sense.

>>33857514
So this... is the power of the Russian economy

>>33864766
>They can even connect to the fucking mains grid.
That seriously hampers where you can go.

>And you have a C-130 based Jammer?
Compass Call called to tell you that you are way out of your league.

>Not relevant to the defence
>not being able to jam beyond 30km, well within artillery range is not relevant

You are making yourself sound more retarded by each post here.

>>33864790
>And your credibility goes out the window.
I've always thought the US EW fleet has been standardized on Growler and F-16 based aircraft. Learn something new.

>>33864833
>K.
Yeah, because that's exactly what it will do- the output will feed into your receiver if its in the same frequency.

>You assume the output is omnidirectional. It's not.
sigh. Look at polar plots of antennas, then come back to me.
>If you have a problem with it, contact raytheon and tell them they are doing the impossible.
On the contrary the very fact that the IADS radars even respond means the MALD has done its job. It has stimulated sensors of which locations can now be recorded by listening aircraft.

>>33857514
>GDP of Russia: 1.326 trillion ZWD (Per capita)

FTFY

>>33864887
>polar plots of antennas
1950 called, they want their radar lobes back.
Have you been hiding under a rock for 30 years?

>>33864838
not my problem you can't understand basic shit.
>output frequency
>sensitivity
>repeater
>receiver
>transmitted output
>interference
Holy fucking shit those are like basic comm. systems shit

>>33864882
>That seriously hampers where you can go.
Not a problem because most defended targets will have electricity infrastructure in their vicinity.

>Compass Call called to tell you that you are way out of your league.
Tell em its its nice knowing them, I hardly ever knew ya after a long range SAM turned you into confetti.

>not being able to jam beyond 30km, well within artillery range is not relevant
>You are making yourself sound more retarded by each post here.
You do realize jamming is strictly LOS right? OTH capability of aircraft is null in this case.

>>33864906
>1950 called, they want their radar lobes back.
>Have you been hiding under a rock for 30 years?
Find me a method that eliminates anything but the mainlobe, I'll give you a Noble Prize. Eliminate, not merely minimize.

>>33864921
>Holy fucking shit those are like basic comm. systems shit
So they are but mashing them together like that does not make any sense.

>>33864921
>Not a problem because most defended targets will have electricity infrastructure in their vicinity
Still limits you to stay close to roads and orher infrastructure.

>long range SAM
>Compass Call
Good luck hitting a jamming target beyond 400km. Also, SAMs get raped by the MALD-J, JASSM, HARM trio.

>You do realize jamming is strictly LOS right?
Good thing aircraft can fly then unlike outdated and inferior truck systems.

>>33859405
>most data suggests thee turret is nearly unarmored considering the 35% bigger than a t90ms yet only 45tons. no one will die but instant mission kill if it's hit by ke
There's no way to know until the armor is revealed. There's the possibility of spaced armor or composite materials which offer high protection per kg but take up larger volumes.

>>33864887
> the output will feed into your receiver if its in the same frequency.

Not if it is directional.

>Look at polar plots of antennas, then come back to me.

Not everything is a yagi.

>On the contrary the very fact that the IADS radars even respond means the MALD has done its job. It has stimulated sensors of which locations can now be recorded by listening aircraft.

It's not enough to track quick search paints.

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>>33864935
Signal filtering might be beyond stupid russians but it's common tech in the west since forever.
Also, you don't need filtering in this case, you only need to get rid of lobes that would interfere with your equipment.
Even russia can do this, pic related is the calculated lobes of your Nebo radar.

>>33864935
>Eliminate, not merely minimize.

And the goalposts begin it's epic journey!

You don't need to completely eliminate sidelobe spillover to prevent feedback cascade.

>>33864724
>Video Games

Australian military uses CMANO and no one laughs at them for it. Even American military used HARPOON which is not as good as CMANO.

>>33865034
>CMANO
>HARPOON
Yeah but the databases you get in the consumer versions are purely guesswork.
They also use laser tag in training but that does not make the kids playing with laser tag toys experts on military tactics.

>>33865034
Problem with cmnao is you can cheat, very easily.

Everything from savescumming to editing pks to LUA scripts.

This is not a problem,its a huge asset assumeing you are being intellectually honest.

Obviously that is a problem with /k/.

>>33862463
>They lost the war because...
Certainly not, they performed reasonably well the first few days, but once the IAF caught on and started thinking of out of the box ways to attack the radar and SAM sites, they quickly became useless. Mind you, the Israelis at the time didn't have dedicated jammer or stand off weapons capability, they literally had to fly over the sites an drop bombs on them from lower altitude.
>I am unaware of this, but once again: first, one system is not a representative of IADS
It isn't, but having knowledge of how they operate is a huge step up, meanwhile, Russians and Chinese have a tenuous of counter SEAD at best. The US Air Force has been literally coming up with ways to negate or neutralize the IADS threat for decades and have been very successful to date. Even one site hit will open up a hole that needes to be plugged, meaning spreading out coverage of ground based sites or hope the air force can plug those gaps (don't count on it). It comes down to mathematics, we have more planes and more missiles to throw at a problem than Russia has long ranged SAMs, eventually one will get through and hit something.
>Vietnam had a large network that consisted
Definitely not, they had one of the most advanced AA/SAM defenses in the world after the USSR (and in many cases manned by Russians no less).
>costed americans 10000 aircraft
And it still didn't stop the US from achieving air supremacy over the entirety of both countries. At no point did the US say. I've debated you before, and you always come back with the worst arguments. Admit it, IADS simply don't provide enough firepower to stop an air campaign from bombing targets or attacking armies.

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>>33864904
Not bad desu
dumb american

>>33865282
Thanks captain autismo!

>>33865015
>Signal filtering might be beyond stupid russians but it's common tech in the west since forever.
Filter what? Its the same signal.

>Also, you don't need filtering in this case,
Already contradicting yourself right after finishing?

>ou only need to get rid of lobes that would interfere with your equipment.
>Even russia can do this, pic related is the calculated lobes of your Nebo radar.
Its a plot normalized for the mainlobe, the sidelobes on the negative hemisphere are minimized. They did this with phased array shifters- does MALD have those?

>>33865018
>You don't need to completely eliminate sidelobe spillover to prevent feedback cascade.
You have to, unless you enjoy transmitting garbage.

>>33865335
>You have to, unless you enjoy transmitting garbage.

Nope, not if the sidelobe spillover is not hitting your receiver.

>>33864662
+ Land based jammers just begs to be destroyed with artillery/tactical missiles.

>>33859502
OIY!

Fuck you cunt!

>>33857908
not an american BTW.

You are a crazy shit faced vodka fucked vatnik.

I'm so glad you guys exist because otherwise they'd laugh at us Aussies ALL THE TIME.

But seruisoly my fuck... The US has more f16s than you shit cunts can pull your entire air force. What the fuck are you going to do about f22s let alone f35s?

Just STFU while you look stooooooooooopid.

>all this dick measuring

Can we all just nuke each other already, Fuck!

>>33864377
oh look all 5 of those capable of getting in the air at once.

lol

>>33865108

The Us never achieved air supremacy over Vietnam. Don't confuse superiority with supremacy.

>>33865335
>Filter what? Its the same signal.
Maybe russians have not figures this out but you simply have to program a computer to record what you transmit and then block that signal from looping back. Not even sure why I have to repeat this so often when sidelobes has not been a problem in jammers since Vietnam.
Target repeaters have used recording and transmitting of the same signal for ages.

>Already contradicting yourself right after finishing?
No, simply pointing out for the retard that even if sidelobes can be made to be no problem, there is no need for such a system because they dont use 50s technology.
Even russians like you who apparently have not figured out plannar arrays could overcome the problem by placing a directional antenna in an area nulled by destructive interference.

>They did this with phased array shifters- does MALD have those?
Those are critical in any PESA/AESA radar which, techlology that has been common for decades. It is safe to say that the MALD uses something akin to those.

>ITT a Vatnik takes the redpill on mald.

It does not defeat the sam, it defeats the entire IADN doctrine.

That's why it's such a gamechanger

>>33866123
It's always the same. People discuss something, a druken vatnik stumbles in and shits all over himself trying to argue, people point out that he is shit and eventually even his krokodil rotted brain gets how he embarrass himself and he skulks off in shame.
It's like a clock work.

>>33867324
>gets how he embarrass himself
The problem simpy is: they dont. They unironically believe they are right with their vatnik brainfarts.

>>33865619

> what to do against planes

oh that's right, america hasn't ever really gone up against somebody who could hit them ANYwhere on the planet with mass cruise missile strikes

>>33867455

Are you still talking about brainfarts in a thread about the new Russian tank which is better than anything America has?

Because you have cuckpedalled and non-stop agreed with other like-minded sycophants about quite a bit in here.

>>33866123

> it's a doctrine changer!!

bahahahahaahaha, I wish could slap the dried cheetodust of your zit-ridden face, you LARPing little general

>>33869158
That is an original Armatard brainfart?

>>33857514
I don't care if you're serious or not, that's funny as shit

>>33869158
Are you the same vatnik who has had his ass roasted with facts through this thread but still rambles on in a drunken haze of strawmans and double standards?
Here again to get your usual BTFO session?

>>33869167
You will note that russian propaganda outlets like RT and Sputnik barely ever mentioned MALD-J. This is because kreml knows that their precious SAM system has shit all to counter with and that they know the lies they usually cook up will be laughed at by anyone remotely in the know and only serve to bring more attention to the fact that they are completely outmatched. Therefore they do what every good regime does when faced with hard facts, they simply ignore it knowing that the stupid and gullible masses of russia never seek truth and stick to propaganda regurgitators. If the stupid masses known about how russia slips even further into military insignificance there would be civil unrest.

>>33855874
Not if they become drones

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>>33857514
>burger baiting burgers
This is beautiful

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>>33859502

No Shilling. The Russians have surpassed even the JIDF as the ultimate internet shills.

Whereas the Aussies have always been king funny shitposters....

bunch of cunts

>>33871791
Unlike the russians, the kikes can actually fight and make decent weaponry and aussies can shitpost.
Russians suck balls at everything so they make do with quantity as usual.

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>>33856010

>>33856350
>turn off radar for half a millisecond
>decoy still broadcasting false signal
>"gee, why are we still getting a return when the radar is off?"

>>33872087
Radars don't send a continuous beam, they send pulses measured in fractions of a second. The MALD detects a pulse and amplifies the skin return. Turning off the radar won't work. MALD wins again.

>>33872087
>I don't have even a remote idea how the things I'm arguing about work, but ours are still better!

Arguing with vatniks is an excercise in futility.

>>33855709
Well quite frankly, it hasn't really been battle tested yet. For all I know, the battle capabilities of the tank are shit and the Russians are talking out of their asses.

I reckon if it's any good, I'd love to watch it in action.

>>33872136
>The MALD detects a pulse and amplifies the skin return.
Timing will be off, and thus detectable.

>>33857960
Is that a naked furry helping Gavrillo Princip assassinate Franz Ferdinand?

>>33872197
Not really, no. The amplitude and lenght of the return pulse is used to determine range and size of the target. Radar pulses are measured in milliseconds but the amplification can be done in microseconds. You can amplify the signal while the radar is still transmitting.

>>33872197
thats not how dwell times work. False returns are also a thing and if it's any good radar system will automatically filter them out. Every radar has an on/off cycle that continuously cycles from TX to RX mode back and forth. Please read up more on PRF before trying to talk on this subject.

Seriously, shits down to an art. It takes exactly 12.36 microseconds for a radar signal to travel to and back 1 nautical mile.

>>33872257
The simulated return pulse would begin microseconds too late. Current Russian equipment might not be able to detect this, but future equipment could.

>>33857514
Russians are rich as hell man

>>33872288
>The simulated return pulse would begin microseconds too late.
That could equally well be interpreted as target geometry results. It is not a perfect sphere up there after all.
What you would see is extended tapering in the first fraction of the return but even if you somehow could develop a system to determine the true nature of this, what prevents the F-35 from programming the on board jammers to amplify radar returns in a similar way, thus mimicking a decoy?

>>33872288
>i have no idea how it works, but i demand that the reality must bend to my biased wishes
Did you get dropped on the head a lot as a baby? Everyone gets how your posts are nothing more than wishful, desparte making up stuff. It is pathetic on whole new levels.

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>>33856010
>>33856080
Slavaboos have no idea how fucked they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWxeRBbGR7Y

>>33872863
Russia will shoot down these micro drone swarms with swarms of micro missiles.

>>33873111
its the us that has micro missiles in development, zero russian development in this field

hit to kill anti-missile missiles for f-35 bays

I'd like to point out that this entire thread got off topic because one guy said they'd just JDAM the tank.

Literally no discussion about the OP lmfao

>>33855690
>>33855709
I don't fucking get what i'm looking at m8?
Is the hatch placement shit?
Does it need more ERA bricks?

>>33875919

I'm not sure myself, but I think it's because of the sudden change of tune of the supporters/useful-idiots of Russia/USSR have spent decades extolling the virtue of tanks with a low profile and weight, and saying how awful NATO tanks are for being so big. Now they have produced a new tank that is over half a metre (two feet) taller than the fuck-huge M1 Abrams, and suddenly a tank being massive is a good thing.

>>33857514
>1.326 trillion USD (Per capita)
>Russian education

>>33875896
Eh it's still vatniks and burgers shitposting each other so it's still more or less on topic from OP, true derailment would have ended up at coyote fucking within 50 posts or so.

>>33875896
The discussion turned into a better one, than the one sought in the op in mho desu

>>33869136
stoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooopppppppppiiiiiiiiiiiddddddd

>>33857985

SHART
H
A
R
T

>>33857854
>What is this even supposed to mean?

The Pharmaceutical Industry in America has license from the US government and Israel to sell laxatives to Americans in their food and tylenol, which results in anal leakage at the Walmarts.

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>>33856581
>Have you not noticed the half a dozen threads created daily where vatniks radiate their butthurt over the growing weakness and insignificance of russia?

It's the other way around my skidmark-shart friend...

In the 1990s, the Jews in power in the West were all too happy to plunder and privatize what was left of the decaying corpse of the USSR under Yeltsin.

Since Putin took over, there was a pogrom against American money Jews and corporations, and Russia has become increasingly sovereign and assertive.

This is an egregious insult to the globalist Jews and all of the lil' shartnik country bumpkins who like to LARP patriotism.

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>>33876603
The Soviet union was a bloated corpse still writhing with maggots long before Yeltsin dismantled it prehaps more gently than the russians deserved. The fact that the russians are a people that completely lacks the morals and humanity to build a civilized society can hardly be laid at Yeltsins feet.
All putin did was murder a few hundred of his own people to grab power, then murder all credible opposition and ride a decade of inflated oil price to go on a military spending spree to finally remind the west how uncivilized the russians are.
What we now see is russia kicking and screaming as it is ground into the dirt among all other former empires by the inevitable wheels of progress.

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>>33876670
Russia still has massive land mass and nuclear weapons. With a robot army you would be fucked.

>>33876603
>>33876670

Both are shit, both vatniks and shartniks have it bad, both have shadowy and corrupt government organisations fucking them over, both have (((corporations))) fucking them over, both have socialist wings wanting to fuck them over, both have poorly maintained and massive infrastructure networks, both have bad state healthcare and safety nets, both have warlord police fucking them over, both have extremely biased and agenda driven media, both have widespread degeneracy and social decay.

While, the poonited states have a higher base level of "shit" than Russia and a bit of a more 1st world country generally, doesnt mean its great, it hasnt really been great for a while. Russia has never been great, at least if you were poor interesting maybe, but not great.

>>33876739
what the fuck

>>33876739
>With a robot army you would be fucked.
Things that russia lacks both funds and know-how to produce in any foreseeable future.
FEDOR is a cheap parlor trick only fooling the most gullible.

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>>33876739
did it urinated onto the table ?

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>>33876755
Just some things that you should be aware of. Meatbags BTFO.

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>>33876782
The creators did it to make it more passable for a human. Soon.

>>33858356
Mate, try at least to get your memes right, you shat the bed as much as the guy who messed up total GDP and GDP per capita.

The image you posted is mocking the Russian pro-Western liberals, saying stuff such as "I want to live in the US, Gagarin never went to space, America saved us from communism, NATO is our friend". It even has a small US flag on the head.

>>33876786
what are these squirming animatronic monsters

>>33876750
Both average and median citizens are lightyears better off in the US and at least the people in the USA has the possibility to elect a candidate not of the elites choosing.
Then the Americans have the title of sole world super power and speakers of the lingua franca while russia struggles to assert power over their weakest neighbours and their language is only ever spoken by malnourished slav goblins.
If having to see a fat slob shart in a mart is the cost I have to pay to live in the US over having to see krokodil fiends rot to death at the doorstep of my tiny commie block apartment, mart sharters it is.

>>33855737
>M1A2
>not a proper MBT
Are Russians retarded

>>33876585
How buttmad are you on this scale?
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
russian

>>33856080
>>33856165
>BUFFs loaded up with penetration aids
Why boner, why?

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>>33876827
Sorry I can't read mongolian runes. Better ?

>>33877236
Russians have the unimaginative way of taking something negative, plastering "enemy" stuff over it and declaring it to be the counter to the negative stuff or something they dont like. Fatnik is a classic one of those here on /k/. You will hardly find something original from them, even calling ukraine pigs and making a pork vatnik out of them was just a response to everyone calling russian pigs.

>>33857908
Now that's how you do it. +1 internet to this guy.

>>33877149
Russian.
Sorry. I just get so upset sometimes.

>>33877383

>US thinking it can talk about recieving negativity

You are worse than the fatniks. A single insult on anything American instantly gets 300 posts about the same shit every time.

You are as bad as one another except that fatniks actually admit their faults to some extent.

>>33877736
>fatniks

At least get your dank maymays straight, fatniks are Americans.

>>33877736
Did you actually really read and understood the post?

>>33877830
>fatniks are american
That's the one forced meme that shows how lacking the russian shills are in creative fibre.
The -nik suffix has forever and always denoted that something is russian or at least slavic of origin.
Vatniks got extremely anus anguished about being called vatniks and in a true moment of monkey-see-monkey-do, the vatniks retorts with fatnik and think that they are the edge of wit.
If anything fatnik implies that someone is a fat russian.

As a yuropoor this annoys me, we had a healthy theme of calling Americans burgers, burgerfats, clappers, amerifats and what have you. Then putins paid shills insisted on forcing their stupid memes.
It's almost insulting to the russians themselves as it is a totem to their complete lack of creativity. It is however a positive sign that russians readily take to the shart meme.

>>33876870
You didn't know?

>>33878809

Not disputing that, just pointing it out for the idiot in >>33877736
It's pretty sad how the kremlin bots only modify the current slur, desu.
Guess that's the pinnacle of creativity you get from a paid shitposter's calorie-starved brain when you cut its wage of pickled beets in half for the third time in a month.