When will officers realize they need 9mm SMGs instead of pistols?

>>33842363
The attack occurred after the officers saw someone inside a silver van shooting at another vehicle, according to preliminary information from police.

A vehicle believed to have been used by the offenders was found near 37th street and Racine Avenue and either a rifle or shotgun was also recovered near the scene, according to a source citing preliminary information.

>>33842363
In February, the Chicago Tribune in a front-page article highlighted the gun violence in this part of the Back of the Yards neighborhood. The newspaper reported that more than 30 shootings believed to have been tied to semi-automatic rifles occurred there and in neighboring Brighton Park during a recent nine-month period.

At least 46 people were shot in those attacks, 13 fatally.

Police said at the time this was the only area of the city where rifles styled after AR-15s and AK-47s were regularly used, a menacing new development in the gang fights.

It's unclear how many of the high-powered rifles were used in the shootings, but police suspected they were being passed around by members of four Hispanic gangs in the Deering police district, which covers Back of the Yards and Brighton Park.

Two of the gangs — La Raza near 47th and Loomis streets and the Almighty Saints near 45th and Wood streets — have been fighting for decades. But the conflict has expanded to the Satan Disciples and Gangster Two-Sixes in neighboring Brighton Park, where violence is less frequent.

>>33842363
poorly trained officers wont become better marksmen just cause you give them smgs

>>33842385
rifles > shotguns > handguns

I wonder where SMGs fall on the list?

>>33842391
should be like this for within 50m

rifle
shotgun > handgun
smg

>>33842415
rifle and shotgun are not on the same level at all, shotguns are a specialist weapon for special purposes like breeching a door.

have a listen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr_VbIg5LrU

>>33842428
>buckshot

>>33842363
They need better training and vetting. They should have had their patrol rifles ready up front too.

>>33842461
from the looks of the cases on the ground they might have, but those might have been the criminals using rifles.

>>33842384
>gangs are getting ballsy and using rifles

Chicago is already out of control, Trump should deploy the nat. guard.

>liberal paradise
>just like Detroit

Cops need to go on strike. Even though it's illegal for public servents to go on strike... they should just stop showing up for work.

And no... police don't need SMGs dumbfuck. Police need to stop tolerating this shit and execute a few hundred thousand career criminals, and their baby momma, and their children. SCORCHED EARTH MOTHERFUCKER.

Police should have pistols and shotguns. Rifles just cause more problems than they're worth.

>Is the suspect uncompliant but motionless? Beanbags.

>Is the suspect far away? Rifled slug

>Is the suspect at a moderate distance and armed? Buckshot.

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>>33842363
>hurr durr we need more dakka for them projects ;_;
>police get mountains of cool NFA shit but we get left out
>again
if they get easy access to MGs, the rest of us should get NFA gibsmedats as well. I also want all of the government surplus equipment that they're allowed to buy for literal pennies.

As a person who lives near that shitty city the police need 2 things.

1. Same cars but with better hidden armor in the panels and resistant windows.

2. P90s and Five-Sevens pistols.

With this, they will be on a better playing field. Keep them in standard police uniforms with vests. maybe offer IIIa with IV plates in trunk if in need.

>>33842535
That would be ideal.

Now get congress motivated for it.

>>33842492
Fuck that, deploy the Marines go door to door, arrest every nigger with gang tats and charge them with terrorism if ISIS was doing this shit Chicago would be under artillery bombardment.

>>33842363
>poor pigs need moar weapons of war
>meanwhile cletus as to hand over his AR and can consider himself lucky if they leave him his OU shotgun

fuck cops and fuck them gud. these welfae queens should get shot.

>>33842545
What happened for the petition? It got enough votes but I haven't heard of it since.

>>33842559
whoa kid. watch that edge.

>>33842559
Cops arent the issue. It is the same "group" of people in Chicago. They just need to be given a fighting chance in the city.

All the CPD police I've met in my training classes want the good people armed. They like the idea of CCW holders. It is the politicians that bind their hands so they cant do their job.

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>>33842559
Fuck off you literal subhuman nigger. Cops are pro-2nd, give them any weapons they need to kill non-white animals such as yourself.

>>33842559
>fuck cops and fuck them gud. these welfae queens should get shot.
t. methhead hick who's daddy cain't stop fightin' the law

>>33842559
>Shit bait
That being said.. kys cunt

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>>33842599
>>33842596
nice projections about my skin color mates. do you think Theresa May would be espousing her oppinions as she does if the cops and SAS were not protecting her and hers 24/7? ofc not, she'd be kicking wogs out of the country hand over foot. the armed forces are responsible for the country, not politicians. but instead of keeping ppl safe, they only care about their own careers, gibs and pensions. It's the same everywhere.

>They just need to be given a fighting chance in the city.

Don't they have AR patrol carbines?

>>33842638
Ohhh, you're a brit. everything about you is discarded.

>>33842648
>Ohhh, you're a brit. everything about you is discarded.

I'm not actually a britbong but feel free to point out how I'm wrong.

>>33842638
>>33842596 here
Never said anything about your skin color. Anyhow, the AR is usually in the trunk of the car because of the size. Up front locked is a shotgun. In that space they could easily fit 2 p90s. Not full auto series but semi with shorten barrels.

Proper response firearms for today. 12 Gauge is fine and all but really they need someone with a little more control.

>>33842627
You have to admit bureaucratic bloat probably most of the budget, most are just there to be meter maids and man speed traps. Whittle down everyone but anyone actually needed for public safety/ actually trained so they have the ability to act on it and there would be maybe a third of the cops in most metros.

>>33842648
>Ohhh, you're a brit.
Nine times out of ten, when someone assumes someone else is British or Australian on /k/, they're wrong.

It's not that hard to spot, just look for the spelling differences.

t. Australian

>>33842391
Really depends on the SMG. I don't think cops should be issued full-auto weapons, they don't have the training and discipline.

However I think a 9mm carbine with a 17-30 round magazine makes a lot of sense.

You want to fix being outgunned? Need more ammo. Need more accurate fire.

Easiest way to get that is a soft shooting carbine with a big mag.

Any should weapon is going to be easy for a cop to use than a handgun

IIRC Chicago is one of the places where cops have to use DAO pistols as well. Go figure.

>>33842523
This is pretty stupid. The level of training you'd need to invest in the officer to be able to reliably switch between 3 different rounds for the same gun is intense.

You're creating a very dangerous situation where one weapon is lethal and non-lethal. There is a reason why non-lethal shotguns are often painted faggy colors or given colored hardware, and tasers have bright yellow paint.

A gun like the Benelli M3 is semi-auto that will let you hot-swap rounds, or any pump obviously,but again the training level is retarded

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>>33842732
>Easiest way to get that is a soft shooting carbine with a big mag.
EXTENDOS MENTIONED, this is now a Stitches thread.

>>33842673
>AR is usually in the trunk
Really? I more often see them locked on the bar up front. It only makes sense, it's not much longer than the shotgun

>>33842761
>I dare you to come near my threshold. This gun will not reload. Cause bitch I got extendos.
>I got extendos

>>33842363
That is a very dapper cop. They should make a movie about him.

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>tfw you took the CPD exam and still haven't heard shit
Goddam nobody was there I'm sick of waiting.

>>33842777
Around Cook county(Chicago) they mostly have shotguns up front still.

>>33842803
Well, two positions opened up so you're in luck.

Being policed by militarized patrol units is not a situation you want to find yourself in as a citizen. Rather than allowing things to get to that point, declaring martial law and sending in the national guard to deal with any area that's past the point where existing police practices are enough to deal with it seems far more reasonable.

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>>33842822
>Chicago
>reasonable
The entire city has been run by a political cartel for decades, they would tie up any national guard deployment in courts now there's precedent to fuck with executive powers via that avenue.

>>33842758
I think it can be done either with a KSG that has a selector switch or the two tubes, or a Valtro PM5 thats magazine fed.

>>33842821
nah they are alive and expected to live

>>33842836
I was thinking of the orders coming from the state level rather than national, City Mayors seem to have a lot less luck fighting their state's Governor.

>>33842868
Well I heard southern metros are hiring now, maybe try there?

>>33842874
Might work but this is just another tragedy people will forget in a weeks time. it'll keep getting worse but people will hardly notice it becasue that will be the baseline by then.

>>33842428
Inside 50 yards or so I will bet on a 12 gauge over any assault or battle rifle you care to name.

>Patrol cops who may frequently need to put hands on a suspect should now carry weapons that cannot be easily and securely stored in a holster in a hand to hand situation

Kill yourself

>>33842874
Not even the state can control that shit show. The mayor has his own little fiefdom that he only controls.

>>33842363
When did Till Lindemann join the Chicago police.

>>33842945
Thats what I was thinking

>>33842898
why not just give them SBR AR-15s?

>>33842363
But muh chillums

>>33842492
Nuke the whole fucking place.

>>33842363
I am of the opinion that police should have access to everything any other civilian has access too. If they get automatics, we get automatics. If we get magazine limits, they get magazine limits.

Honestly, I think something like Berettas x4 series would be absolutely ideal for police. They can carry something like the Px4 for regular duties, and when shit gets real they can use the Cx4 (or Mx4) without having to worry about grabbing any extra magazines or ammunition. That way a cop can just grab his Cx4 off the rack and just use the pistol mags already on his belt, without having to stuff his pockets with an AR mag or two. Besides, it's not like police ever need anything more than what a pistol caliber out of a rifle barrel can accomplish.

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>>33842952

>>33843050
...The Comedian?

>>33843056
>comedian
What?

>>33842504
>Cops need to go on strike.
It's genius because who would arrest them then?

>>33843114
The FBI

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>>33842875
I'm the anon you responded to. I kek'd but what >>33842868 he said which is good. It's just big city taking a while to get around to it. I was also considering applying to DC Metro Police.

My city has a ghetto colloquially referred to as "the jungle." It's a long, circuitous loop through apartment buildings that has always been a den of crime. We used to have major gang problems there. I remember walking through there as a kid and seeing groups in front of certain buildings that had people wearing the same color clothing. Drugs passed in and out of there regularly, as well as weapons and prostitution. After a series of brutal rapes and murders happened, some 6 or 7 in a two and a half month span, the city decided to "break the jungle" in their words.

So the police began. They set a 9pm curfew on the jungle and barricaded the two road entrances and the two pedestrian entrances. They then began patrols. Fucking hard patrols. Every 15 minutes, four squad cars would roll in on the loop. If anyone was caught outside, the first and last cars would block the road and the passengers would step out with rifles and provide cover for any threats coming in. The middle two cars would pull in to a suspect, the passengers would detain the suspect, and the drivers would provide direct cover with rifles. Even during the day, every 15 minutes two squad cars would patrol through. All the crime dissipated, as much as it scattered and went elsewhere more than was actually fixed, but it made it somewhat more manageable than the ghetto where cops never came.

>>33842363
>surely increasing the rate of fire and capacity for officers who are well known not to be able to hit the broad side of a barn will be a fruitful endeavor
They need to be regularly tested in marksmanship. No amount of mall ninja gear wouldve saved them, only situational awareness and being a better shot could have. That said, nothing will be done because being a police officer is not actually that dangerous, no matter how hard they sensationalize these incidents.

>>33842391
>i wonder where a handgun with a couple extra inches of sight radius and larger capacity falls on this list
Marginally higher than handgun.

>>33842363
Extra weight and it's not as well secured to my body as a pistol. Won't work out well if I have to go hands on and wrestle with someone. I'm all for rifles in patrol cars though.

>>33842363
SMG's are actually harder to master than rifles or pistols but yeah I get what you saying two hands are better than one. maybe issue cops 9mm AR-15 SBR's?

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>>33843268

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>>33843297

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>>33843303
>>33843297

>>33842886
Then you are vastly uninformed, or inexperienced.

intermediate rifle is 0 to 300 meter king. Past that, things can get a little fancy.

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>>33842886
>Inside 50 yards or so I will bet on a 12 gauge over any assault or battle rifle you care to name.


well then you are a bonafide retard.

>>33842363
>police officers who fire 50 rounds once a year to qualify and can't hit shit with a semi-auto firearm should be given full-auto firearms so they can miss at 900RPM
no thank you

>>33842886
>Inside 5 yards or so I will bet on a 12 gauge

Fixed that for you.

>>33843320
there are plenty of police shootouts where the criminal had a rifle and the police a shotgun or handguns

it pretty much established that
rifle > shotgun > handgun

>>33843303
>>33843297
this thing is fucking perfect.

a stock on a pistol that doesn't interfere with reaching the mag release and shit.

Now if only SBRs weren't a thing and the NFA was repealed.

Police might actually use something like that.

>>33842492
>he thinks gangbangers using rifles is a new development
My dude these guys buy guns off the black market, it's not rare to find gang houses stocked to par with a small towns police force

>>33843411
I'd rather use the TMP, it has a drop leg holster too and isn't ehavier than the CZ-75 lookalike. tard cops will probably blow off their fingers having to sue the front serrations to rack the slide... ACAB

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>>33843413
>he thinks gangbangers using rifles is a new development

>>33843413
according to the Chicago tribune they mostly use handguns to kill each other and gangs have only a few AKs they pass around

>>33843411
Police departments are allowed to have nfa items.

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>>33843413
>My dude these guys buy guns off the black market, it's not rare to find gang houses stocked to par with a small towns police force

this shit was seized in a raid in Holland even.

>>33843450
yeah but it's probably still more bullshit than non-NFA items

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>>33843453
moar

>>33842599
>cops are pro-2nd

Cops exist to uphold the dominant ideology and enforce the economic and political order. They'll be the ones confiscating your guns if and when laws are passed, Cletus.

>>33843466
Depends on your region, now say goodnight to everyone in the compound and go to bed before the scary alphabet agencies hear you're being naughty and shitposting online.

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>>33842599
>Cops are pro-2nd

O RLY? *flashbangs your toddler*

>>33842363
>Wanting to further militarize the police
You won't be happy until we are full time police state with cops being Judge Dredds.

>>33843453
That's hardly surprising.

I'd be surprised if a bunch of AR-pattern rifles showed up, but you're looking at guns that come from countries a few hours drive away, that had fairly lax law enforcement for the entire decade of the 90s, and had huge stockpiles of weapons that could easily be stolen because employees going unpaid for months at a time have to feed their family somehow.

Also, rifles are probably going to be more popular in Europe for criminals, due to the ammunition being easier to get.

>>33842822
Yup, this.

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>>33843479

>>33843103
I think he was referring to Watchmen.

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>>33843489
>Also, rifles are probably going to be more popular in Europe for criminals, due to the ammunition being easier to get.

nah, gun crime is pretty much 0 sans the occasional mass shooting type deal. a robbery will usually looking something like two dudes showing up with a tonfa/stick/knife and threatening you for the register money. now ofc, organized drug criminals have guns but those are for protection against cops and rivals when SHTF, they are not used as day to day tools of the trade.

pic related are M80 AT weapons that were seized in Bosnia before they could go on their journey to Austria. One has to wonder who wants/needs this stuff...

>>33843458
what is that under glock brand glocks?

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>>33843518
more mundane stuff from the same raid

>>33843518
I was talking about gun ownership, not the use of the guns. Gun ownership would probably be at least two orders of magnitude higher than actual crime committed with them.

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>>33843523
allegedly some sort of gun made in Croatia by semi-professional gunsmiths.

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>>33843535

>>33843514
Oh

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>>33843538

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>>33843552

>>33843518
>One has to wonder who wants/needs this stuff...

Just to clarify, if I had the option to safely get some of these, I would. And then I'd use one of them to blow the traffickers to shit.

>>33843313
>>33843320

Not the guy you're replying to, but in a defensive situation nothing covers a chokepoint like a shotgun.

If shot placement is king; putting the equivalent of 9 rounds of 9mm into the bad guy with 1 trigger pull is a great way of maximizing your chances of destroying vital tissue in as little time as possible (ie before he can shoot back at you).

ARs are far more versatile, but right tool for the job and all that.

>>33843466
http://cspoa.org/sheriffs-gun-rights/
And that was in 2013

>>33843768
>00 buck
>equivalent of 9 rounds of 9mm

that's hot garbage but sure, just carry on with your fuddlore. I just wanna point out that criminals may be wearing body armour too... the idea that you can control chokepoints with a shotgun better (bc of "spread" probably?) is asinine; in the time it takes guy to fire a 00buck and rack the pump, I can put 4 rounds of well aimed 556 downrange from my AR. marksmanship>spread

>>33843774
>59/3000+
Wow, that's nearly 0.5%!

>>33843800
>0.5%
err, *1%

>>33843805
...fuck. I mean, aah screw i.

>>33843811
>i.
*it.

>;_;

>>33843114
The Pinkertons

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>>33843413
>My dude these guys buy guns off the black market
>black market
https://www.wired.com/2015/06/i-made-an-untraceable-ar-15-ghost-gun/

>>33843768
more like 8 pellets of .380, with shit penetration because lol round lead balls at low velocity

shotguns are seriously overrated.

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>>33843791
>body armor
If he's wearing level III your poodle killer 5.56 isn't going to stop him either.

>bc of "spread" probably?
lrn2woundballistics

>well aimed
In a high stress reflex shoot scenario under unknown conditions? You know cops only hit 25% of their shots in those scenarios; oh wait derp I forgot where I'm posting of course you're former JSOC and shoot 1000+rds/wk in high intensity training environments...

>>33843842
Now you're just being a retard, level 3 is handily penetrated by 20" ARs with 55 grain stuff.

>>33842803
If you passed usually they will only contact you when a position is available, and they will probably contact people with higher scores before they contact you.

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>>33843800
I suppose we can't know for sure how many county Sheriff's are pro 2A unless we go out and ask every single one, and that's not gonna happen. Since sheriffs are elected and most republicans are pro-2A, maybe we could look at how counties voted...

>>33843856
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRh6sf6LLtM

Please tell me more. BTW that plate costs $65...

>>33843413
most guns that chicago pd recovers after a crime come from either indiana or mississippi. from legitimate gun shops. the problem is straw purchases.

not the black market. but hey never let the facts get in the way of a good story, right?

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>>33842363

Gentlemen, gentlemen. Lets not get drastic here: we don't need to arm our officers with automatic weapons, we just need to ensure the cars they patrol in are more- protected.

>>33843880
Straw purchases technically ARE black market. As guns transfer between purchaser and user are illegal. But i get a point about initial gun source.

>>33842363
We need to bring machinepistols back.

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>>33843920
Machine pistols? At least an AR-15 SBR/Pistol can be controlled, in terms of fire rate and recoil.

>>33843875
>2,800 feet per second max threat rating

every 20" barreled AR laughs at your stupid level 3.

3,200 fps is bare minimum acceptable for adequate fragmentation anyway.

>>33842541
They would likely complain if you made them wear IIIA all the time.

>>33843527
>Bosnian terrorists have Thompsons
I think I need to change careers.

>>33843827
>more like 8 pellets of .380
actually, it's not even 9 pellets of 22lr.

They need Vepr 12.

Average police car should mount either a M240 or PKM though.

I agree.

>western europe
>extremely low crime rates
>armed police guard populated areas with MP5s

>usa
>urban areas with high violent crime rates
>cops have glocks with 20lb triggers

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>>33843949

Pretty sure that Hurambe (probably spelled name wrong) was killed with a shotgun slug.

Why can't cops use slugs?

>>33843413
>gang houses stocked to par with a small towns police force
No tyrone Hipoints and Berettas are not ordnance.
>>33843453
Immigrants with ISIS affiliation.
>>33843458

>>33843949
>Thompsons
There is just one.
There is also so much WW2 and Nam surplus all over the world.

>>33842384
>gun violence

>>33842504
THis. The time is up for caring whether Jamal wuz a gud boi. Scorched earth policy now and harsh sentences

>>33843842
>>33843875
Not that anon but if you're shooting someone wearing plates you're supposed to aim low to ventilate their lower chest cavity(intestines/pelvis) or hips/legs.
>In a high stress reflex shoot scenario under unknown conditions? You know cops only hit 25% of their shots in those scenarios; oh wait derp I forgot where I'm posting of course you're former JSOC and shoot 1000+rds/wk in high intensity training environments...
Wow how condescending can you be. Even if you're not aiming and still land a hit that's going to knock the wind out of someone or at least scare the shit out of them. And last time I checked when you shoot at someone you don't just shoot one perfectly center shot into their plates when you do or dont have time to aim.

Plates are stupid. They only cover your vital organs from the direct front and direct back. Better than nothing but with your argument you're acting like they make you magically invulnerable.

>>33843842
>In a high stress reflex shoot scenario under unknown conditions? You know cops only hit 25% of their shots in those scenarios; oh wait derp I forgot where I'm posting of course you're former JSOC and shoot 1000+rds/wk in high intensity training environments...
not him but you realize the police only have to qualify and shoot like 50 rounds a year right? most of them have less range time than the average /k/ommando; and that's saying something.

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>>33842384
Just do what PR did, have the National Guard assist the police (Which is realistically the most that will happen knowing this is Chicongo). And here's a 2016 revise link related to the problem going in there.
>https://www.amren.com/the-color-of-crime/

>>33842363
>Those officers were able to return fire, but it doesn't appear they hit anyone.
Well that's the problem -- raise the requirements for pistol qualification. In real shootings, they're going to be full of adrenaline, moving, and won't be able get into the perfect position. That will kill their accuracy.

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>>33842886

>>33844344
>Well that's the problem -- raise the requirements for pistol qualification.
But then they might need to spend more money on ammunition, to give the cops more practice. You think money grows on trees?!

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>>33843209
Sounds alot like the caseríos of PR. I know back in the 90s and early 2000s the National Guard would do the same thing because the police force didn't had enough trained recruits and because they needed assistance against the local syndicates here

Give the cops single action revolvers
They would have to learn how to actually hit things because their survival would depend on it.
Cops can't hit fuck anything. And giving them 17+ rounds isn't fixing it
Kind of like how people stop driving like cunts when you take their Jeep and give them a camry

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>>33844319
>most of them have less range time than the average /k/ommando

See, that's where I think this logic goes out the window. Sure, the minimum is low, but plenty of cops like to shoot their weapons and do tactical stuff these days for the same reason people on /k/ do, given that cops are members of the population too

>>33844371
Lmao no. Combat stress needs to be dealt with and learned how to handle.
Christ this post couldn't get more european.

9mm SMG's weigh as much as bare bones short AR's and police already have AR's so...

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>>33843890
Jesus christ, its just like my Japanese animes

>>33844376
Source? Because most cops I know not only dislike civilian firearm ownership but also shy away from it.
>plenty of cops like to shoot their weapons and do tactical stuff these days
Like that cop who got in huge trouble for scratching 'you're fucked' into their ar's dust cover? Do you have any source to that besides what you assume.

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>>33844379
>I don't like your opinion
>your opinion is European!!

>>33844400
I know bub. Didn't even respond to him.

>>33844400
It was an actual statement followed by essentially an insult... I don't think you can into reading comprehension.

I'll say it again so you can understand-
Combat stress needs to be dealt with and learned how to handle. Fearing for your life and mag dumping is the total opposite of having control of the situation.

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>>33844417
>opinions aren't statements

>>33844400
not that anon but your argument was pretty shit.
>dont give police modern pistols with a capacity to surely put at least 3 people down
>they should have wheel guns!
>and in stead of cop cars
>give them horses so they don't cause as much property damage and the criminal doesn't have to speed to get away!
dumb.

>>33844429
What opinion. That combat stress needs to be dealt with properly?
Just like a slippery european to completely drop the subject and act like they're on some kind of high-ground.

>>33844438
Wasn't my argument, I'm not that anon or that anon, just that anon.

>>33844393
>Source? Because most cops I know not only dislike civilian firearm ownership but also shy away from it.
>Like that cop who got in huge trouble for scratching 'you're fucked' into their ar's dust cover? Do you have any source to that besides what you assume.

Do you? I think this varies GREATLY. There's probably a million LEOs in the US at least.

>>33844457
Actually there is about 1 billion total. Not including clerical workers.

Here is an article talking to police about how they should practice 'at least bi-anual' as in twice a year. Twice a fucking year anon.
https://www.policeone.com/police-training/articles/3738401-Police-firearms-training-How-often-should-you-be-shooting/

Here is another article with answers from actual cops saying at most they practice 6 times a year with no more than 50 rounds per practice. That's fucking 300 rounds; most /k/ommandos shoot that in less than an hour.
https://www.quora.com/How-often-do-police-officers-in-the-USA-who-carry-a-gun-practice-shooting-them

And here is another article mentioning that the few police who admit to owning firearms in their civilian life only have a 22 or shotgun.
https://bearingarms.com/mike-m/2016/06/02/individual-safety-whos-responsible/

>>33844482
*million not billion, oops.

>I think it varies greatly
You would think wrong.

>>33842504
And then what do you do with the cops after they've been allowed to do so you. You think you just flip a switch and turn them back into Andy Griffith ?

>>33843209
But hey, turning the police force into a fucking army is the solution, not just deporting/segregating the fucking blacks, while ending the gibs for them.

Liberal society is the problem of all this

>>33844501

Exactly what the military does after they've been overseas watching kids blow themselves up for their sky fairy - send them home and replace them with new recruits.

>>33844672
One is an army in a foreign country that sometimes polices people that aren't its citizens
And one is a 'peace keeping' force for legal citizens.

What's it like in highschool nowadays?

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>>33843309
Another option, if Rik could ever get a contract with anyone.

>>33842599
wew

>>33844438
Your telling me 6-10 rounds of hot 357 isn't enough to take on three people?

>>33843827
lmao its more like 3 pellets of .177

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>>33842886
no need buddy

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>>33845242
>implying that would protect you from the energy transfer of a slug

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In Italy police uses Beretta PM12 from the '60.

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>>33845274

>The North Hollywood shootout, sometimes also called the Battle of North Hollywood, was an armed confrontation between two heavily armed and armored bank robbers and members of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) in the North Hollywood district of Los Angeles on February 28, 1997.

>The bank robbers wore heavy plate mostly homemade body armor which successfully protected them from handgun rounds and shotgun pellets fired by the responding officers.

>s. A police SWAT team eventually arrived bearing sufficient firepower, and they commandeered an armored truck to evacuate the wounded. Several officers also appropriated AR-15 and other semi-automatic rifles from a nearby firearms dealer.

> Each robber was shot and penetrated by at least ten bullets, yet both were able to continue shooting.

>The two well-armored men had fired approximately 1,100 rounds, while approximately 650 rounds were fired by police.[6] Following their training, the responding patrol officers directed their fire at the "center of mass," or torsos, of Mătăsăreanu and Phillips. However, aramid body armor worn by Phillips and Mătăsăreanu covered all of their vitals (except their heads) while providing more bullet resistance than standard-issue police Kevlar vests, enabling them to absorb pistol bullets and shotgun pellets, while Mătăsăreanu's chest armor, thanks to a metal trauma plate, even successfully withstood a hit from a SWAT officer's AR-15.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

ok sure

>>33842363
Why?
So they can score more misses?

>>33842428
>special purposes like breeching a door
>implying
1oz slug to the chest would fuck someone up, same with buckshot.

>>33843413
They've had rifles for years.

They don't actually use them. Handguns are just a better option considering they're more easily transferred, easy to conceal and usually use a cheaper and more readily available caliber.

>>33842550
Fuck off bootlicker, muh big government save me.

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>>33842550
>Marines go door to door
>nigga pops off a jennings
>Marines take cover
>section 8 apartment building gets M777 arty dropped on it
>section 8 apartment building now a scrap heap
>tax payer money saved twice
>Trump turns the site into a new parking lot with a plaque dedicated to the USMC

>Cops can't even shoot as well as a fudd who goes to the range once every other month
>Give them automatic weapons!

No, Cleetus. Just fund a training program that requires cops be able to actually aim before they get a gun. Marksmanship requirements for officers is appalling in most precincts.

>>33842363
Blued, wood stock Mini-30s and 1911s because aesthetics

>>33845274
My aunt's father got run over by his own truck, his ribs were pulverized, made full recovery. The energy transfer of a slug is gonna rekt your shit, but you receive competent help, then you'll survive.

>>33844022
>Immigrants with ISIS affiliation.
Yeah no. They have nothing to do with ISIS. drug dealers and biker gangs just buy yugoslavian ak's because they are easy to get.

>>33842385
If it increased hit probability for poorly trained Russian peasants, it'll work for cops too.

>>33843857
Nigger it doesn't work that way. They have a strictly pass/fail lottery system. You do get moved ahead if you're a vet or a person who attended Chicago public school

>>33846295
This is correct. You don't pass on a canvas letter if you get one.

>>33843890
why did they make it look like a panzer 3

>>33842363
OP, they already went there, thought some more, did math, and realised they don't give a shit because shorty AR's are so much cheaper

>>33842363
>europe at it again
oh wait.

>>33846119
How does this happen? Genuinely curious, reminds me of that celebrity guy that got killed in a similar scenario recently.

>>33844376
>>33844482
Eh, my personal experience says otherwise.

About half are lazy fucks who are just there for the paycheck; those are often the never shoot/suck at shooting types.

The other half are tacticool tim, super high speed low drag moto motherfuckers who shoot all the time.

Before you scream 'anecdotal evidence', let's not forget that even tho LEOs might not train often in their free time; when they do attend their bi annual qualification, its often accompanied by mandatory training by qualified firearms instructors. Anyone who shoots will tell you shooting 100 rds under competent instruction is infinitely more valuable than 1000 rds with nobody to notice and correct your mistakes (you're just making training scars).

Also, does your average kommando train under high stress? Plinking from a bench rest or dumping 100 rds bump firing does nothing to prepare you for shoot/no shoot, low light, fatigue, close quarter/retention, and vehicular shooting; all of which LEOs receive when they attend their mandatory training.

>.t used to work armed federal security in a major city; worked, trained, and socialized with local, state, and federal police

>>33845397
Nigger lover.

>>33842384
If you have criminals running around and shooting people with rifles with impunity, you have a policing problem. As soon as they are out of a vehicle or structure, their weapon is exposed.

>>33842428
When will this meme die?

>>33842391
Rifle > Shotgun > SMG > Handgun

>>33846266
Except cops are accountable for where all the bullets go when they spray randomly out the window of a cop car and kill uninvolved people.

>>33842673
I'm in a smaller city, not quite enough to be called a metro area, and cops are armed to the fucking teeth here.
>duty sidearm with 4 spare mags
>select-fire suppressed AR locked up front
>select-fire MP5K locked to bracket over driver's head just behind sun visor
>.300wm precision rifle in trunk
>go-bag in trunk with MICH2000, some form of Paraclete multicam plate carrier with ESAPI plates, 12 AR mags (2 of which loaded with M995 AP), 50rds of .300wm 190gr FGMM, PVS 23 NVG's, and some form of clip-on thermal rifle sight (I haven't gotten a good look at it yet)

My city PD also has 3 up-armored humvees, a Buffalo for their 2-man EOD team, 3 Bearcats despite no official SWAT team, and 5 Milkor MGL's for riot control (although rumor has it they do have HE-frag in inventory). All for about 190 officers including admin staff.

>>33843455
Not at all.

Everything a police department orders, whether it's pens, toilet paper, or rifles, is done on department letterhead.

All that is required to purchase post-sample MG's is department letterhead, LEA's are specifically excluded from the NFA and GCA.

>>33844358
Maybe if departments stopped buying useless bullshit like multiple MRAPs, heavy machineguns, and multi-million-dollar surveillance robots that were deemed unconstitutional searches before they were purchased and just sit collecting cobwebs in the PD basement, then maybe they could afford to shoot more.

>>33847503
Different guy but it happens fairly routinely in the winter here.
>random dumb person stuck innaditch cuz snow or onnaice cuz RWD-only truck with no weight over drive wheels
>tries to push it
>(if in ditch) vehicle slides backwards and crushes them. (if on ice) person slips and falls, forward momentum of vehicle causes rear wheels to crush them because INVARIABLY they fall forward and end up under it, because they're 3000% retarded in the first place
Results in 2-3 fatalities and 50+ hospitalizations every single time it snows, sleets, or drops below freezing after a rainstorm.

With how fucking retarded about LITERALLY EVERYTHING people are up here, I really don't understand how Minnesota still has a population. We're like the Darwin Award center of the western hemisphere.

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>>33842992

>>33843399
Are you forgetting said criminals are outnumbered?

>>33852207
And that the police had body armor and cover.

>>33843017
>Honestly, I think something like Berettas x4 series would be absolutely ideal for police. They can carry something like the Px4 for regular duties, and when shit gets real they can use the Cx4 (or Mx4) without having to worry about grabbing any extra magazines or ammunition.
That's literally what the rifle is designed for.

Cops will never go for it though, they are far too invested in playing soldier.

>>33842504
yeah just like that dirty harry movie

fuck off bootlicker

If I were a cop in chicago right now, I'd want a PDW, the P90 is an ideal platform for vehicular use, and it shoots like fucking velvet.

>>33852339
>>33852600

>anything in pistol caliber

Remember that old adage about all pistol rounds being inadequate? Yeah... that totally applies here.

>but muh increased velocity in a longer barrel

The reason pistol caliber carbines and PDWs never found widespread success is because you can slap a short barrel on an AR and have all the benefits of handy carbine with intermediate rifle cartridge wound ballistics

>but muh interchangable mags and one ammo type

Good point... if you're a frontiersman in the 1800's. With the ability to carry as much gear as needed in your squad car and the wonders of modern logistics, this is a solution looking for a problem.

>>33851824
Do they do one man per car or two?

If it's one man per car that's really overkill. But two per car is really a lot better and that's a reasonable armament for them.

>>33852769
The first two don't even apply to the P90. 5.7 is a PDW round and will do much better out of a PDW than a pistol.

It's better to think of the P90 as the full-sized weapon and the Five Seven as the SBR with inadequate barrel length to achieve full velocity.

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>>33842599
Cops in Chicago are definitely NOT pro-2A. Although cops in general probably are

t. Chicagoan

>>33852817
So... your argument FOR 5.7 is that it underperforms both as a PDW when compared to an AR and as a pistol when compared to modern defensive pistols?

I hope you don't work in marketing...

>>33843337
This desu

>>33852967
I never said it under performs as a PDW. I said comparing it to a 9mm carbine is misleading.

I'm also not the same as the anon who was arguing for it. An AR-15 may be as good or better depending on the specific factors in a situation.

Am I the only one who would do everything in my power to get a Glock 18 as a duty pistol if I were a cop?

Imagine the look on a crackheads face when the gun comes out and his windshield fucking evaporates.

>>33853025
>Am I the only one who would do everything in my power to get a Glock 18
t. Saddam Hussein

>>33852769
>Remember that old adage about all pistol rounds being inadequate? Yeah... that totally applies here.


No, I dont believe it does. I've had several weekends at Lapeer pit with a full auto P90 sample.

100 rounds of 5.7 into a car door almost cut it in half (thats 2 magazines and less than 60 seconds with reload)

I could bend the whole door barehanded without much effort. The P90 is a monster PDW. Much more compact and MUCH easier shooting than an M4, MUCH. It is the automatic bulpup the world needs.

>>33853267
it's called the Jaws of Life if you need to cut car doors. A P90 will just be mass civilian causalities, friendly fire and probably at least five officers a month turning their left hand into mince because officers treat their guns like fashion accessories.

No amount of toys is going to fix that until you fix training first.

I would much rather they have 9mm smgs than ar15s

>>33853025
>in a shootout with police today 5 bystanders including a baby and a dog were fatally shot, boy in police crossfire. The suspect was uninsured and remains at large

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>>33843821
Ain't they all dead?

>TFW undead pinkertons go on a cleansing spree and remove all the corrupt cops

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>>33843535
>>33843538
>>33843552
>>33843558


Never heard if they ever found out who was doing this either. Like Breaking Bad but gunsmithing, fuckin' awesome

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>>33842363
>Those officers were able to return fire, but it doesn't appear they hit anyone.

>OP: Oi it seems da boyz needs sum moar dakka with their shooties.

That is not the solution.

>officers were sitting in a car when two other vehicles pulled up and their occupants opened fire at the officers

They were lucky to even return fire.

>>33845398
>>section 8 apartment building gets M777 arty dropped on it

C4 is actually much cheaper.

>>33843313
You're a troll. Shoot yourself with 00 buckshot and then with 5.56 "tacticool" and post results

>>33849436
>dumping 100 rds bump firing does nothing to prepare you for shoot/no shoot, low light, fatigue, close quarter/retention, and vehicular shooting; all of which LEOs receive when they attend their mandatory training.
none of which are particularly useful except vehicular shooting, and only for police or those who have to worry about getting shot in a drive by.

>>33855384
>Shoot yourself with 00 buckshot and then with 5.56 "tacticool" and post results
results are, he dies either way. except the 5.56 actually works for a few hundred extra yards and is generally better in nearly every conceivable way

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Why don't we just bomb Chicago? Does Chicago provide any sort of economic stimulus for America? If no, it must go.

Law enforcement is a failed concept and war succeeds where law enforcement fails.

>>33852797
1 per car, ofc.

>>33850870
when 30rd 12ga mags magically shrink to the size of a box mag

>>33849436
>every civilian that shoots either mag dumps or fires from bench while relaxing on a futon
>but every cop who trains gets the best training in the world
>even when someone links me articles showing that most cops don't give a fucking shred of their time or concern and just assume they'll be able to hit what they're aiming at
>'70 rounds fired only 2 striking the perpetrator more news at 11'
Please don't fucking kid yourself.

>>33855870
>70 rounds fired 2 hit
worse
http://www.mintpressnews.com/video-33-police-officers-fire-600-bullets-car-knowing-contained-hostage-killing/197948/

>fire 600 bullets
>10 hit

>>33843241
Rifles are easier to use than pistols. I don't blame them for not being able to hit shit. An MP5 or other 9mm SMG would be great, if only in semi-auto.