How can slavaboos explain this?

>>33842068
>Shit aircraft.
>Shit pilots
>Shit tactics.
Gee I wonder why?

Mig 23 why? :(

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>>33842068

>>33842189
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20
:^)

>>33842267
Lmao

>>33842267
>egypt is getting creamed by Israeli in the air
>soviets being smug cunts
>send forces to force israel to fall back by mere presence.
>almost works
>Israel traps a frontline Soviet fighter unit into a massive dogfight.
>Soviets fall for same fucking trick the Egyptians fell for.
>Smug egypt tells the world the soviets got creamed in the air.

>>33842267
i like how slavaboos always say 'no ussr was run by da jooozsh' and here they are engaging Israel.

>>33842068
>>33842217

To be fair to the Mig-23, I think the dedicated ground attack variant is being included in its losses, when it was not equipped for air combat and not flown by pilots trained in air combat. That said, the F-4's losses while being used as a ground attack platform by pilots without air combat training are counted, so it isn't completely unfair.

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Hhah

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>give something to roaches and shitskins
>they find a way to make it suck
no exceptions

>>33844652
See
>>33842267

Then die inside.

>>33846226
All I see is one lone ambush. See Yom Kippur War for IAF getting butchered.

>>33846603
>All I see is one lone ambush.

Then you are blind as fuck.

>>33846603
And then proceeding to rebuild tactics and completely fuck the shit out of Russian-supplied IADS.

>>33846768
10 years and an aircraft generation later.

>>33846908
And Russian IADS was never effective again once the West took it seriously, either.

>>33847001
The West has never faced contemporary UADS again even once. Losing over a hundred yid aircraft to something as small as Kub taught their obese ass a lesson to remember.

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>>33847001
>And Russian IADS was never effective again once the West took it seriously, either.

The West has never faced ANY Soviet IADS systems made after the 1960s...

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>>33842068

>All told, the U.S. Air Force flew 5.25 million sorties over South Vietnam, North Vietnam, northern and southern Laos, and Cambodia, losing 2,251 aircraft

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_of_the_Vietnam_War

>Mfw Amerisharts lost more aircraft in Vietnam than their entire current USAF inventory, against Gooks armed with bamboo spears and telephone pole-sized Soviet SAMs running on vacuum tubes.

Kek, when will the Shartniks ever learn?

>>33847174
>5 MILLION sorties
>only lose 2k aircraft, mostly helis, total (non combat losses too)

Meanwhile modern Russians can't launch 3 sorties off a carrier without losing aircraft.

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>>33847174

>Lose half of your total aviation assets

>Lol, it doesn't count because SOMETHING

Do they ever learn?

>>33847214
>only lose 2k aircraft
10000 aircraft.
>B-b-but whataboutrussia
10000 aircraft, burger. Will you ever recover? I thought so.

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>>33847340
>10000

>>33847340
Just like the Jew, the number grows.

Whatever, 10k aircraft.

>5
>MILLION
>SORTIES

>>>>B....B....BUT MUH 1-

5. MILLION. SORTIES.

I would ask of you could recover but you have not got over 20 years!!

>>33842302
That's part of the cover up

>>33847386
>LIES!
Will the burgerboos ever learn?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_of_the_Vietnam_War
>>33847388
Nah, it is you who started to claim most of 2251 aircraft were helos, while as a matter of a fact 2251 alone is the number of fixed wing aircraft lost by the US while the number including helos is 10000. That is not even counting the US puppet gook losses.

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>>33847072
>>33847073
>Russian "hurr dey neber...
What about the fucking systems we bought and regularly train against?

What about the fucking state of the art of the time system Iraq had in GW1 that was improved with French control systems?

>>33842302
The USSR was indeed ran by the Jews. And then they got what they deserved. Later USSR was mostly ran by Ukrainians.

>>33842068
The Tomcat is so aesthetic. Literally what springs to mind when someone says fighter jet

>>33847174
>Implying NVAF wasn't flying fairly modern late 2nd/early 3rd gen fighters just like the USAF
>Implying their losses weren't a lot worse

>>33847465
>posts proof
>proof lists all aircraft lost
>nowhere near 10000

It's not because the guy who wrote the page found some source claiming that the US lost 10000 aircraft that the US actually lost 10000 aircraft. Goddamn vatnik education.

>>33847470
>What about the fucking systems we bought
You mean those disposed of electronics mock ups in the middle of the desert? The only time the US got to play with a functioning albeit obsolete S-300 system was when Slovaks have let them to at some exercises like 10 years ago. And even then, one system does not constitute for the whole IADS network.
>state of the art of the time system Iraq had in GW1
Oh, look, it's this meme again. I like how butthurt belt burgerboos are just kept being brainwashed about rusted late 50s SA-2 being "state of the art" "IADS" by the year 1991, when S-300P, S-300V, Buk, Tor, etc. were in service for years. Every time, comedy gold.

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>>33847536
>Dat denial
Jesus Christ, this burger is cringeworthy.

>>33847465
FIVE.

MILLION.

that's more than the entire GDP of Russia!

Think of all those beets!

>>33847561
The Vatnik butthurt in this post is palpable.

>>33847561
>still mad his country's best pilots got BTFO by kikes, directly.

LMAOing at your life.

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>>33847597
>>33847600
>>33847617
>Lose 10000 aircraft to commie gooks with sticks
>50 years later they are still mad
Will Amerilards ever learn?

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>>33847577
>posts someone's opinion as proof
>claims others are denial for not accepting it as fact

I'm not even a burger but vatniks are just too retarded.

>>33847653
Just accept you got beat by the jews bro, man to man, fighter to fighter.

At least US planes maintained a positive KD ratio. Russians could not manage that themselves!

KEK

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>>33847654
>I'm not even a burger
It is kinda visible by now. Not even burgers can be this retarded.

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>>33847684
>not even trying to use an argument

>>33847674
>Lose 10000 aircraft to commie gooks with sticks
>B-b-but what about that one time when yids made an ambush
You just never learn.

>>33847073
Except for the literally tens of thousands of units in Iraq in 1991 that proved wholly incapable of doing their job.

>inb4 arab incompetence and monkey models.
They were trained by the USSR and some of them were crewed by Russians.

>>33847694
>Trying to use an argument against a mad butthurt belt dweller
Why? He will reduce the discussion to crap and then overwhelm you with his experience in shitposting. I'll rather just keep ridiculing your damage control.

>>33847696
>m...muh veitnam

Still had a positive k/d.

>Russians

Don't.

When will the Vatniks learn?

>>33847715
>Rusted late 50s SA-2 being "state of the art" "IADS" by the year 1991, when S-300P, S-300V, Buk, Tor, etc. were in service for years
The meme ride never ends.
>some of them were crewed by Russians
That's a new one, I give you that. Never heard of this meme before. Did you come up with it yourself, or are you getting this bullshit from somewhere in particular.

>>33847653
>commie gooks with sticks

>Mig-21s
>Not a modern fighter for the time that was competitive and not properly replaced by a same-type until the Mig-29

>>33847743
>Lose 10000 aircraft and a war to commie gooks with sticks
>B-b-but muh k/d...
You simply refuse to learn.

>>33847744
You do realize they had Buk, Tor, and S300, right?

They even managed to shoot down a whole 1 plane with their Buks.

>>33847723
>butthurt belt

Russia?

Vatniks truly btfo! How will they ever recover?

>>33847762
>russia
>lose proportionally more to everyone throughout its entire history.

kek

>>33847763
Now that is a blatant lie and you know it. The only middle eastern nations to receive those systems are syria and Iran.

>>33842068
Pilot training.

Look at US experience in Vietnam with the F-4, the USAF and USN were at roughly a 2-1 kill-loss ratio. The USAF got better planes while the USN actually trained its pilots, USAF still only got 2-1 while the USN reached 12-1.

The side with the better aircrews has the advantage, and the vast majority of the time that was the side with American aircraft.

>>33847763
They did not have any of these, pathetic lying imbecile ignoramus. Never in the entire history of their country. The most modern thing they ever had was SA-8, which is basically point defence.

>>33847763
That is massive bullshit.

Iraq never had any of those systems.

>>33847762
>Making up a big number then trying to use it in serious argument while ignoring that the Russian-made shit in the same war fared far worse

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>>33847766
No, just her belt.
>>33847790
>Lose 10000 aircraft and a war to commie gooks with sticks
>B-b-but whataboutrussia
You're never ever to learn, aren't ya.

>>33847790
Hell, even their victory in WWII was Pyrrhic as fuck.

>>33847828
He is technically correct if you count non-combat losses and define aircraft as both fixed and rotary wing.

Jungles are not a kind environment to helicopters.

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>>33847828
>Lose 10000 aircraft and a war to commie gooks with sticks
>B-b-but whataboutrussianshit
You lost a war to it, that's what about it.

>>33847762
>>Lose 10000 aircraft and a war to commie gooks with sticks


Per flight hour, fixed wing was safe as fuck in Vietnam.

>>33847950
Almost as safe as it was ineffective at winning.

>>33847902
yeah and russian fuckers managed to lose a war to a buntch of cave dwelling goat fuckers with m1's

>>33847971
If America stayed a few more years it would have been over, but the American public can no longer stomach a war so the point was moot.

If you think the Burgers got it bad, its nothing. Absolutely nothing, compared to what the red Vietnamese got.

>>33847902
>You lost a war to it
No, we curbstomped North Vietnam, got to a point where it was no longer politically acceptable, drew up a treaty and signed it, and left.

Then just didn't give a shit when North Vietnam invaded and took over the south a few years later after recovering.

>>33847986
And we didn't technically lose. The French were defeated and driven out.

>>33847831
Odd, never see those country's post, only Russian asshurt.

>>33847831
>lose proportionally more thought-out their entire history

>Even in Vietnam us fighters maintained positive k/d.

Russia can't maintain a positive k/d against bignosed sandniggers.

Your reply will contain a remark about Vietnam.

>>33848012
How was the Fall of Saigon not a loss for American forces?


>>33848012
Shoulda gone full Operation Vulture up dien bien phu

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>>33847972
I don't recall them losing 10000 aircraft in the process.

>>33848068
probably didn't have that many aircraft in service for the entirety of the war...

>>33848041
>Lose 10000 aircraft and a war to commie gooks with sticks
>B-b-b-ut whataboutrussia! WHATABOUT IT!
You're just ineducable, aren't you.

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>>33846603
>Yom Kippur War
>"M-muh SAMs"
>Still fucking lost
Slavaboos endlessly BTFO

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>>33848077
That's strange, considering the Soviet Union operated the largest air force on the planet. What is more likely is that you are on a suicide watch.

>>33848090
>Lose over 100 aircraft to a small SAM system
>B-b-but whataboutarabs, they lost a bit more aircraft, so we totally didn't get butchered
The eternal yid.

Inb4 first Chechen war.

>>33848080
>pottery.

When will you ever not be BTFO about your abysmal K/D?

Your reply will contain a post about one conflict among many.

>>33842068
I'm really surprised by how terrible the MiG-29's ratio is. I'm old enough to remember how back in the 80s, everyone (defense analysts) in the West was touting the MiG-29 as a "super fighter"

>>33848161
MiG-29 is a memefighter with no range.

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>>33848153
When will you ever not be BTFO by commie gooks with sticks? I mean you had a chance once, but you lost it. Along with 10000 aircraft.

>>33848055
>US not actively fighting
>2 years after Treaty of Paris
>Evacuation of guards and non-combatants is a "loss"

>>33848161
>Flanker currently stands at 6:0
>From killing Mig-29s

>>33842068
>Vatniks beat airframe is 1.0 k/d

>America spergs out and creates an fighter, on short notice, with a 102 k/d

Makes you think...

>>33848184
>if I keep repeating it maybe I'll be able to believe it.

>>33848096
looked it up and apparently the fielded 10214. Guess i was off by a little ;)

>>33848184
Your next post will contain a reference to Vietnam

>>33848184
>vatnik has to attack the fact that America's public can't handle losing men in war because he knows that his entire military is decrepit and fading into irrelevance.

I like arguing with chink posters more, at least they makeup bullshit about current capabilities instead of only talking about their powers 30+ years in the past.

>>33848185
>enter the war to prevent the spread of communism to Vietnam and South Pacific Region
>1975 rolls around
>Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos all lost to the Red

Political loss, despite a long chain of military victories before the US started pulling out.

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>>33847902
Both sides suck
Russkies suck a bit more
And I love Russian jets
Stop being such a insufrable faggot

>>33848275
No fault of the US military, though. Anyone arguing that this shows a lack of capability in the US military power is fucking retarded, Vietnam was getting curb stomped.

>>33847684
I much prefer cleaning bong toilets to being in your stupid country, Artyom.

>>33848302
>Vietnam was getting curb stomped

I have been saying this the entire time, a loss due to politics is still a loss. If the US stayed a few more years, there wouldn't have been a North Vietnam left.

Not really sure what we are arguing about, maybe you think I'm a different poster?

wtb board IDs.

>>33848347
I'm a different person than who you're replying to

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>>33848358
Welp there you go.

Carry on.

>>33847723
>he will reduce the discussion to crap
>after having reduced the discussion to crap

This lack of self awareness is quite worrying there mate.

>>33848002
Essentially, a absolute waste of a war you guys weren't going to win anyways
>we killed many Viet's
And what do you have to show for it?

>>33848468
>And what do you have to show for it?
Combat experience that destroyed SAC dominance of the Air Force and brought about the modern technological and training advances that have made western air forces such a dominant global force.

>>33844652
leo2 is just a shit tank my main man. can you see that hull rack damage. literal braindead design

>>33848275

On the other hand, during the Vietnam War, the Sino-Soviet split that began in the late 50s deepened, with events like the border war of 1968 eventually culminating in Nixon's 1972 visit to the PRC and the threat of the USSR & PRC aligning against the USA had receded (in fact, USSR and PRC proxies would fight each other around the world throughout the rest of the Cold War).

By the time of the US withdrawal from Vietnam, the fears of an ever-spreading monolithic global communist foe had receded.

>>33848347
Ah yes what was the old Roman quote? Some like 'I have made a desert and called it peace'?
They were going to force us to commit genocide.

>Russia
>a threat

They could not achieve air superiority over Georgia in 2008 which had no dedicated fighters and only a couple of SAMs (of Russian origin), most of which were abandoned. They even lost a Tu-22 and half of their downed aircraft was due to friendly fire.

Whats worse is that Georgia is smaller than fucking Austria and even with all those Russian fighters it still managed to air strike Russian ground units on the last few days of the conflict.

Russia is a joke who is only good at bullying its neighbors who are in the same or even worse shit than they are.

>>33848889
>By the time of the US withdrawal from Vietnam, the fears of an ever-spreading monolithic global communist foe had receded.

Good point. A decade away from the end of the Vietnam war and the USSR would be nearing its deathbed.

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>>33848656
Good
Well it came with a high price to pay,
Not surprised,its America tradition to throw away lives and resources and later try to justify it with any excuse under the sun

>>33848965
>America would lose slightly more than 400,000 soldiers (killed or missing) and almost no civilians during World War II and the USSR, depending on which historian you believe, would lose at least 11,000,000 soldiers (killed and missing)

:^)

>>33848989
And?

>>33848139
>Lose over 300 aircraft to superior pilots
>B-b-but whataboutjews, they lost almost as many aircraft as we did, so we totally get to brag about losing
The eternal arab.

>>33849003
Americans learned something from all the lives lost.

>>33842068
When was the last time Russia was a conventional military (ie non-nuclear) threat to anyone important? WW2?

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>>33849082
>ww2
>usa
>not even in Europe
>didn't ever take the full force of the Reich like the Soviets did and them some
>fucked with some beta uprising gooks in some irrelevant islands
>join the European battlefront nearly at the end

Also
>America would lose
>would
What is this implying?
But I guess you point still somewhat true

>>33848468
More like we won, then didn't show up to the rematch.

>>33848096
>not acknowledging the fact that most of the aircraft were shitty Korean War Era Aircraft and Bi Planes.
>Muh 10,000 plane meme
How fucking dense are you, your current Airforce has Aircraft with rust on the outside. Sometimes you just gotta learn to shut up, you were a superpower, now you are not.

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>>33849241
>your current Airforce has Aircraft with rust on the outside

>>33849240
Actually, all america did in Vietnam way delay the uneditable
Good job at it tho

>>33849241
>>33849282
>aluminum rusts

lrn2metallurgy

>>33847696
>hurr dur lets include bombers and other craft when talking about fighters
Fuick off vatnik

>>33842267
That was a calculated trap. Honestly, Israel and the IAF would never stand a chance against russia and that is a fact that is well known to every party involved.

That engagement was Jew trickery and its sole purpose was to help leverage a ceasefire for Israel.

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am I too late for shitflinging guys?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mole_Cricket_19

>>33849347
>Syria
>allowing vatniks to use the untrained pilots meme
C'mon

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>>33849376
Don't forget
>muh monkey models without RWRs
>Syrians going out of their way to fuck up Soviet air defense doctrine as much as possible
>Syrians falling for the same trap two days in a row

>>33847470
>French control systems
no wonder it fucked up so badly

>>33847470
what the hell is that image supposed to be anyway I have seen this making fun of slav many times but still have no idea what it is supposed to be
a glove?
a sock?
what the hell is that thing

>>33847072
>win war with a far greater kill ratios
>Slavs and sand niggers declare victory because they did a little better than last time at the start

Wewlad imagine how this feels

>>33849325
>Th-the Jews didn't really kick our asses, it was a trick!

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>>33849468
A Vatnik, a type of cheap padded cotton jacket.

>>33849325
Is "Jew trickery traps" supposed to justify being btfo? Does it make you feel better or somethings?

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>>33847174
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_of_the_Vietnam_War

A lot of these seem to be crashes and FF.

>First lost C-7B 62-4161 (459th Tactical Airlift Squadron, 483d Tactical Airlift Wing) which was hit by a US 155mm shell on 3 August 1967 in SVN killing the 3 crewmen.

>Flying through the air
>Hit by your own artillery shell.

Brutal.

>>33842068
>How can slavaboos explain this?

That picture doesn't really explain much.

When and how were those aircraft shot down? In what war?

I'm pretty sure that the USSR/Russia never used any Mig 23s, 25s, and 29s in air-to-air combat.
Likewise, when did the U.S. or Israel lose F14s and F16s in air-to-air combat or to AA systems? The last time the U.S. fought a real air war was in Vietnam. The Iraqis didn't put up much of a fight in 1991 and even less of a fight in 2003. The Taliban had no real air force or air defenses.

I'm assuming that the kill/loss stats for the Mig 21 and the F4 Phantom are from the Vietnam War.

If the other aircraft losses are from 3rd world client states who were fighting each other, or getting wrecked by Israel, you are not exactly proving your point that "the Soviet/Russian air force sucks" or that the "American air force is invincible".

Context matters.

>>33849536
No, it's just not an argument against anything but overblown Soviet advisors' ego and idiotic recon.

>>33847487
It's funny bcause if you look at the composition of the first soviet central committee it was only 14% jewish

>>33849596
I couldn't find the actual graph I remember I had, but the initial amount of Jews in the Central Committee was over 30% which then dropped to like 3% after the Great Purge in the 30s.

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>>33849596
Nevermind, found it. Red is Jews, blue is East Slavs, green is Poles, Germans and Balts, black is Georgians, Azeris and Armenians.

>>33848139
>a small SAM system
Reminder that during the YKW, the Egyptian SAM system was the densest in the world, more so that North Vietnam. And the Syrians weren't significantly far behind.
And while literally writing the book on how to counter such IADS the Israelis still managed to get a positive loss ratio.

>>33842068

>soviet aircraft losses, ww2: ~120,000
>German aircraft losses, ww2: ~70,000

In other words: Do you really think they care?

>>33849789
>Including countless amount of aircraft that were lost in beginning of Barbarossa
>Implying being destroyed, parked on the runway, is somehow a gauge of how good the plane is

k

>>33849892
>muh non-existent crews

>>33842068
Whats the kill:loss for Legacy and Super Bug? One of those 8 MiG-25 kills was an Iraqi shooting down a Hornet in the Gulf War

>>33849911
Son, a vast majority of the planes lost were literally parked on the runway.
I don't know what you're going on about.

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>>33848161
MiG-29 never really had a fair shake. To be fair the USAF will never let you have a fair shot, thats kind of their thing.

Its an excellent airframe with amazing flight characteristics, but is held back by 3rd gen tier avionics. It was still in the era of "pilots are ground control slaves" to the point where its datalink system literally told you when to zoom climb, when to fire, etc.

The situations it was put in was impossible. Handful of Iraqi MiG-29's vs the entire coalition air force, 5 Yugoslav MiG-29's vs the entire NATO air force, etc. Most damning incident though is the Eritrean-Ethiopian war where Ethiopian Su-27's killed 5 MiG-29's for no loses.

>>33848206
See pic.

Honestly though, the MiG-25 is one of the few "good" soviet fighters. Su-27 is still the best, but the MiG-25 performed very well. It flew over Israel and scared the shit out of them because nothing could intercept it. It killed an F-18 on the first night of Desert Storm, and actually damaged an F-15(the closest an F-15 has ever been to being shot down by another fighter)

Designed as a high speed high altitude fighter, it was put into missions it had no business being in and still did pretty damn well. (pretty damn well being a 1:1 k/d ratio on a russian built plane)

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>>33849191
>1943
>nearly at the end

>>33849568
The US lost some F-14's in the Gulf War, and some F-16's in the Balkans in the late 90's.

>>33850033
Yeah sure

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>>33849191
>>fucked with some beta uprising gooks in some irrelevant islands

>Americans don't move in the pacific
>aussies, brits and Chinese btfo
>USSR now fighting a two front war, even if they khalkhin gol the japs, Siberian divisions are not there to stop the German advances or counter attack during the winter
>Moscow falls

>>33849937
In all fairness, the Eritrean-Ethiopian war scenario was largely based on the inadequacy of the pilots, particularly the Eritreans.

Essentially what had happened was the Eritrean MiG-29s were engaging the moment they got a radar lock, so almost 50 Nm miles away. Of course with basic manoeuvring such a long range shot can easily be avoided.

The Ethiopians then closed in and engaged at 10Nm and used their higher manoeuvrability to absolutely massacre the MiG-29s that had all gone Winchester.

The odds were stacked against the MiG-29s given the Su-27 is the better air superiority fighter, but their crushing defeat was 95% their lack of understanding of basic BVR.

An A-10 BBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTed a chopper in the Gulf War, is that counted as an air to air kill?

>>33850145
Mikoyan is a welfare brand that the Russian govt keeps around for alternate ideas, despite Sukhoi making superior aircraft.

>>33850205
This.

Majority of Sukhoi's aircraft have been great, but Pavel Sukhoi wasn't even a member of the communist party...

You can tell what happened from just that knowledge.

>>33850248
>Pavel Sukhoi

He never saw the Su-27 fly

:(

>>33848989
Wow it's almost like the soviet union had to face a surprise ground invasion from one of the most advanced militaries on the planet rather then being able to hid behind two oceans for the entire war. If America had had to have gone through what the Russians had you wouldn't have lost nearly as much simply because you would've folded within a week, tops, you wouldn't be able to handle it.

>>33850506
>lose 11,000,000 soldiers in a suicide charge against euro cucks
>russian stronk
you simply refuse to learn, beetnigger.

>>33850033
Yeah it was, when you consider how weakened Germany already was by all that fighting on the eastern front. It happened after the huge losses they took in barbarossa, after their devastating loss at stalingrad and right before another devastating loss at kursk, all of which claimed the lives of far more german soldiers collectively then anything the western allies ever did. All the western allies did in euroep was get their asses kicked at the beginning, decode a lot of intel (which was useful) and build a bunch of truck to help the soviets who were actually fighting the war.

>>33848275
More like
>Americans please help us we helped you in WW2
>No fuck you we will support French to recolonize you
>Guess I have no choice but to rely on Soviet
>Ah ha you are commie now die die die
>The country is split in half but we will have election
>Not gonna happen we will rig the election
>*spend 20 throwing napalm, agent orange and bombs
>Oh fuck guess we will need to do a strategic retreat because this shit costs too much
>Okay we will process to sign the peace treaty
>No we gotta bomb you one last time to save face while keeping the same content in the peace treaty
>*After the fall of Saigon and Victor Charlie avoids the same fate as Korea
>Fuck you gook we will support this genocidal commie just to spite you

>>33850122
But the japanese already got their asses kicked by the soviets before the war in border skirmishes, that's why they decided to go south instead of north and the soviets could afford to move those siberian troops. Read a fucking history book, the japanese were a second-tier power and fundamentally didn't matter, just like france or poland. It was Germany vs Russia and America and to a lesser extent Britain helped, anything else is jingoistic propaganda bullshit.

>>33850506
>implying I'm even American

Are you simply ignoring the constant fuckups, blatant disregard for human life, purges and warcrimes committed by the Soviets?

Any western military didn't suffer this high rate of casualties for a good fucking reason. They gave at least 1/3rd of a rats ass about the men fighting for them.

>>33850654
And who exactly would have defended southern Russia? A two front war is still a two front war regardless of you fighting a shit tier army or not.

>>33842068
They can't, they'll try damage control, but at the end of the day quality and training determines the effectiveness of an air force. And the VSS was and is trash.

>>33849639
Hot

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>>33842068

>>33842068
>f-4 phantom
NUT

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>>33848068
Only countries that don't still use skis and diesel power plants in their carriers are allowed to talk shit, bud.

Russian military going to war looks exactly like it did on its way to Tsushima in 1905. Pathetic.

>>33848068
Soviet aircraft losses in Afghanistan were still abysmal. I have a document telling the exact number around here somewhere...

Fun fact, the Soviets tried dropping propaganda leaflets on Afghan villages to try to indoctrinate them, but they were largely ineffective because most of these villages didn't have anyone that could read

>>33850178
A strike eagle with a 2000lb LGB strike on a flying Hind counted as A2A.

>>33851370

https://theaviationist.com/2016/02/14/f-15e-shot-down-iraqi-mi-24/

>dropping a bomb right through the cockpit of a helicopter

>>33844652
>tfw only Abrams lost by americans in desert storm was by friendly fire

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>>33847174
Gee, Ivan, we really riled you up- didn't we?

>>33849241

the number is more like 2,200. only 110 of them helos.

still abysmal losses to gommie slopes with sticks

>>33852698
>with sticks

More like state of the art Sam systems.

But shhhh, don't tell the Vatnik that

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>>33842068
>How can slavaboos explain this?
With damage control, deflection and autistic screeching about muh IADS.

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>>33850834
>should I cobra now?

kek, this is so true, what is it even with vatniks and the cobra meme? It looks cool in airshows but in a world where OBS-capable IR missiles exist, it's fucking useless.

t.USAF

>>33851220

>451 aircraft (including 333 helicopters)

Considering the war lasted 10 years and this was the first war where MANPAD's were introduced, it doesn't seem that bad at all?

>>33854205
Plus it was the last war fought at treetop level, and USAF pilots were handicapped by bad training and pilot selection.

Plus John Boyd's 4-ship formation that blinded F-4s to rear attack.

>>33854229
That was the numbers for Soviet losses in Afghanistan.

The US loses in Vietnam are much higher.

>>33854229

Plus USAF had fallen prey to the "turnfighting is dead, BVR is life" meme

Plus the SA-2 was actually really fucking new and lethal back then and effective TTPs for dealing with them had not been developed yet.

>>33842068

>f15 undefeated

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mole_Cricket_19

>90 f15, f16 vs 100 mig21, mig23, mig23m

>2 hours later...

>iaf loses 1 UAV
>saf loses 82- 86 planes

This is probably what inspired Independence Day.

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TU-4
Because Soviets were hardly ever original

>>33849922
The Legacy killed 2 MiG-21s (while the Hornets continued to carry 4x 1000lb bombs each) and suffered 1 loss to what was believed to be a MiG-25, the Rhino hasn't had any air-to-air engagements.

>>33842068
Poor avonics and sensor have usually been critical
(Yeah, Ivan invented first airborne PESA radar but that seems all.)

>>33855646
>while the Hornets continued to carry 4x 1000lb bombs each
From what I understand that was the big deal with the hornets, that they can fight without having having to jettison their bombs like most fighters.