Traitors Among Us Continued

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Shills defending RRA and SA so far that I know of:
>Ammoland
>Bearing arms
>Twang n bang
>TFB

Anymore?

Reposting Rob ski's vid for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. NSFW he cusses like crazy, bu the actually lives in IL so he is pissed off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsoj4kL0jQQ

>>33837458
I noticed a couple of nobody channels on youtube continuing to shill SA. Maybe they think they can get some free shit or something I dunno. They probably have CCW badges.

>>33837497
Kek. How pathetic.

If there's any that people here might watch post them. I am unironically boycotting everyone who is defending RRA and SA.

>>33837520
I think it's more pathetic that some of the big name channels still haven't weighed in. I know they're trying to see which way the wind is blowing before they commit and it's pissing me off when we already have so much damning evidence.

I figured YankeeMarshall at the least would have a vid about this by now.

>Imagine learning that you’ve un-knowingly funded your own political opponent through your gun purchases.


https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/arie-friedman-friedman-v-highland-park-wants-apology-springfield/

SA and RRA donated tens of thousands of dollars to anti-gun politicians.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-made-campaign-contributions-to-anti-gun-rights-politicians/

>>33837548
Same. They don't want to hurt their company connections. Pretty sad.

>>33837641
I'm never buying from either of them again. I guess this is a good excuse to get a new subcompact daily carry to replace my XDS.

Anyone have the TL;DR? I'm a graveyardfag and a lot of news seem to go down while I sleep

I wanted to get an M1A someday. Not anymore
I own a RRA AR. It was my HA graduation gift. Got to get rid of it.
New XDe looks neat, even handled it at the NRA convention. Might as well be unobtainium.

>>33837715
>Rra and SA pay lobbyist
>Lobbyist negotiates exemption for manufacturers and big box stores in gun control bill
>Magically drops opposition after exemption is granted
>Bill passes and goes to house
>Later revealed same lobbyist group has donated thousands to anti gun politicians
>Some gun mags and YouTubers still defending sa and rra
>NRA fudds likely to remain silent

>>33837715
>SA and RRA form IFMA to lobby in IL
> they donate 10s of thousands to anti-gun democrats over the years
>this year they exchange their opposition to a bill that would basically fuck every individual and small dealer in IL for an exemtion for themselves and big box retailers
>SA and RRA both come out with statements claiming the IFMA went rogue and they dindu nuffin
>they don't realize that the tax records for the IFMA have been all over the internet for a day and we know THEY ARE THE IFMA

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Holy shit. I was actually going to buy a SA Mil-Spec 1911 this weekend. I guess I'll give my money over to Auto Ordnance instead.

>>33837715
>>33837730
Important to note,

>Lobbyist IS the CEO of SA
>Not a seperate entity that did something behind their back

>>33837730
Well fugg, what a bunch of faggots. To think i was gonna buy an RRA upper. Thanks based anon

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>Tfw wanted to buy an M1A
I really dont want to anymore after this horseshit.

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>>33837762
Directors are SA family and Larson (RRA) the executive is the lobbyist who gets paid.

>>33837721
You can still buy one used. that doesn't give SA any money. Or you can go big $$$ and get one from Fulton Armory. There's another outfit out there too but the name is eluding me atm.

Point is you have options besides giving SA any money.

https://www.thegunwriter.com/22751/kudos-john-boch-ferret-truth-guns/

>>33837679
Owning an XDs is a good excuse to get something else

>>33837466
Christ, when Ski is mad you know shit has gone wrong.

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Desperate RRA shill on arfcom

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>>33837601
I feel like a fucking retard for ever buying from them.

>>33829878
>gun company run by somebody who "isn't a gun guy"
Reason enough to boycott.

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>>33837885
I bought one and sold it, so I guess that's okay. But there's a hole where that gun once was in my heart because I want guns for every role. Complex feel.

>>33837436
What the actual fuck is going on? I haven't browsed /k/ in a week can someone give me a quick rundown?

>>33837885
TBQH feelings of regret is probably where most of the "shills" are coming from. It's post-purchase rationalization. Or even worse, misguided brand loyalty. They bought a SA gun in the past, see that SA is now shit, and can't cope. They can't un-buy the gun, so instead they reject SA being shit.

>>33837970
Springfield Armory backed gun control legislation in Illinois.

>>33837849
I'll add that TTAG has gotten SA advertising in the past but they didn't hesitate to blow your shit up. I give them props for their journalistic integrity

>>33837982
Eh, I own a SA 1911. Even now I'll readily admit price/performance their 1911s are top tier. However this betrayal is too much to tolerate. Their company deserves to die.

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>Almost bought a Shillfield Saint because of its price


Fuck me that was close! Guess I'll just be getting a OBZOR!

>>33838018
Not everyone experiences post-purchase rationalization. It's only the weakest minded people who will cuck for SA because they've bought their guns in the past. That's why it's only a small minority of people here cucking for them. Maybe 10% of people who've bought something from them before.

>>33837458
this is how a "lobby" group works though.

you set up a lobby like a company and pay the lobbyist like an employee.

I mean, Im not making a statemet on wether or not I think RRA and SA knew about it, but to act like the organizational structure of a lobby group is some kind of big revelation when everyone already knows the players is fucking over the top melodramatic retardation

>>33837436
>Never owned a Springfag because their guns are shit.
>Now the whole company shows itself to be shit.
Fucking Springfag. Get a GRIPZONE on yourselves.

>>33838073
Read the comment you stupid nigger. Twang n bang literally says other members and there aren't any other members of the lobby group sans rra and sa.

Kill yourself stupid shill.

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>>33837970
Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms got special exemptions from a pretty bad sweeping gun regulation law, with the most notable thing being that people and FFLs cannot do more than 9 transfers a year without getting federal and state licenses, while big chains are also exempt.

Turns out, the Illinois Firearm Manufacturer Association is also headed by the heads of SA and RRA, who have been funneling money to gun grabbers in IL for years now.

SA and RRA as of last night tried to say they were surprised they got exemptions, and placed the blame on IFMA. But it's bullcrap because, as noted, IFMA is pretty much headed by the heads of SA and RRA.

tl;dr SA and RRA have been funding anti-2A politicians, and recently withdrew opposition to a very bad anti-gun bill by earning exemptions for themselves and fucking everyone else in the state.

>>33838073
The lobby was literally run by the owners of SA and RRA. Both companies have been caught red-handed lying multiple times. Anyone defending them at this point is in denial, willfully ignorant, or on the payroll. This is an epic, stunning case of them being btfo

>>33838073
>organizational structure
Fair point but to also say that the others involved in that structure, who also happen to be the owners/CEOs of their respective companies, had NO KNOWLEDGE of their employees actions is so ridiculous as to be unbelievable.

>>33837775
LRB Arms.
I toured their shop and was very impressed. Prices for their plain Jane GI rifle aren't too far above SA's.

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Is SA fucking around with google results? Can we meme magic this to rectification?

>>33838188
Thanks anon I knew there was another less pricey option I just couldn't remember it.

>>33837772
either buy a used one off of armslist or a better-than-springfield james river or Fulton

Holy shit here we go again SA is basically saying the same hit as RRA did earlier today. Do they not have an internet connection where they can read the info that is out there on them before they spout such duplicitous bullshit and expect people to believe it?

>"IMFA a shit"
>"We sever ties with ourself"

Read this shit:

http://blog.springfield-armory.com/springfield-armory-statement-regarding-gun-dealer-licensing-act-sb1657-0

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>>33837772
Get an LRB M14. Better quality and built to order.

>>33838163
Why the fuck hasn't anyone gone to prison for this shit?
This is actually illegal as fuck

>>33838226
Hilarious. They're literally a day or more behind with this stupid statement.

Desperation is starting to sink in.

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Look, the sales have gone down and they don't want to show loss of growth. They're lobbying artificial drama that won't pass and will sit and stew in everyone's head for a while. It's all to create another gun grab scare and spike ammo and gun sales. Remember .22? Scury black rifle? Shoulder thing?
It's all manipulation of people and markets for the sake of stock holders, think gamergate shit but without the sjw crowd and without a chance of actual happening.
>shill
It's so they don't have to lower prices to move product like the Obama years.

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>>33838226

>>33838237
The illegal part is detailed in the arfcom thread. apparently some of the dem politicians have not reported the donations claimed in IFMA filings. So either they broke the law and didn't report it, or the lobbyist fag is skimming money. either way a law has been broken.

>>33837874
but thats wrong though.

I think SA and RRA are complicot and guilty of fucking gun owners, but you pay a fucking lobbyist to go do lobbyist shit so you dont get your hands dirty.

the mongoloids over at arfcom dont understand how politics works, or how having a private 1099'd contractor so they dont have to pay his payroll taxes works

>>33838250
Except this is only in Illinois this isn't going to cause a nation wide buying scare.

Sorry but that's not smart at all.

>>33838271
Please read the twang n bang comment. He says other members of IFMA, there are no other members of IFMA. Stop over thinking this and understand what I'm saying.

>>33838250
except most people don't give two shits about commie states but the people who live in them. this idea that this is all a big james bond villain scheme is ludicrous. The simple answer is best answer:

these corrupt mouth breathers thought they could get away with some shit and they got caught. This led to a deeper investigation that is revealing how many skeletons are actually in the closet.

Pretty hilarious that SA and RRA didn't just trip over something, they kicked a beehive. Even if the bill is DOA in the next two blocks, they completely soiled their brand name now that people are looking at what they've done in the past years now. Pretty much this >>33838287

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>>33838189
Looks fine to me.

>>33838154
shill shill shill shill

keep saying it enough times you sound like a helicopter idling.

Now go and read what I wrote, you illiterate degenerate

>>33838321
One simple question for you you dumb fucking faggot.

What other members of IFMA are there besides Keller, RRA, and SA?

>>33837436
QUIT FUCKING MAKING THESE THREADS FUCKING CHRIST IT WILL CUT DOWN THE CRIME

>>33838164
>>33838172
wasnt disputing any of that, just that that specific fact isnt in and of itself a story, evidence of wrong doing, or indicative of anything.

I mean, they outright gave 10s of thousands to virulently anti gun shitbags, thats enough to sink their companies , and should. everything else is moot

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>>33838344
I kek'd.

>>33838344
>IT WILL CUT DOWN THE CRIME
You're joking right?

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>>33838189

>>33838254
actually its the other way around, IMFA didnt report the contributions.

that is actually in favor of SA and RRAs argument that they didnt know, but honestly fuck them anyhow

I don't get it. This bill has literally zero benefits for Springfield and RRA, they're the only major manufacturers in Illinois. I've heard people saying that it will undermine their competitors, but who would that be? What are they going to do, sell only to big box retailers in the state or sell direct? It doesn't make sense, the restrictions would surely hurt sales from small businesses as they would be restricted

>>33837458
What did BA do?
www.google.com/amp/s/bearingarms.com/david-l/2017/05/01/springfield-armory-and-rock-river-arms-sell-out-illinois-ffls/amp/

>>33838285
>there are no other members of IFMA. Stop over thinking this and understand what I'm saying.

there are no "contributing members".

granted, those are the only ones that matter, but there appeared to be at least one other member on arfcom.

It wouldnt be unheard of to just pay a lobbyist and let him set up the organization and do all the work.

again, I think SSA and RRA are guilty as fuck, but I think people are seeing evidence in the wrong places and attributing qualities to things that dont exist

>>33838497
>What did BA do?
They fell in line.

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/05/01/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-oppose-gun-dealer-licensing-act/

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>>33838020
>obzor masterrace
do it

>>33837721

You don't have to get rid of your AR, that's just retarded. Just don't buy anything else from them and you're covered. What's done is done and

>>33838501
The other guy on arfcom is an entirely different group NOT IFMA.

Twang n bang is wrong there are no other members and that is what I'm saying and you acted like it was incorrect. It isn't.

>>33837760
you're buying a better gun anyway.

>>33838451
>ing that it will undermine their competitors, but who would that be? What are they going to do, sell only to big box retailers in the state or sell direct? It doesn't make sense, the restrictions would surely hurt sales from small businesses as they would be restricted
it would hurt small people which you're too stupid to understand as youre a shill

Twang n bang deleted his comment

Fucking stupid shill bastard

>>33838703
One of the best things to come out of this whole mess is the outing of the shills for what they really are. Some by their complicity and others by their silence.

>>33838795
I agree. I have a list of places and people I won't touch now.


Also i was trying to register to arfcom to post his comment and get the word out on it but all my emails are apparently not allowed, what is this shit?

>>33838804
They only allow paid email services like your ISP email. It's fucking retarded.

>>33838837
I don't even have or know my isp email.

Fuck it then I just won't even bother. I'm sure someone else will do it or repost it or something.

>>33838837
They are like the facebook of gun people really. They are so huge and offer so many services (like access to the EE) that they do all they can to keep scammers out. Trying to tie accounts to emails that lead to your real name is one way they do this.

>>33838703
It's still there. But I agree about him being a dipshit

>>33839491
Is it? I checked twice and couldn't find it.

>>33839491
I just checked again dude it's gone.

>>33839655
I'm looking at it right now

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>you were supposed to destroy the antigunners, not join them! You were my gunfu Springfield! I loved you!

>>33839883
Why though, they don't even make their own guns, it's a greedy kike that bought the rights to a name and logo then started paying other countries to make guns he can put his logo on.

>>33839945
I unironically like the XD series and I like old Springfield rifles and 1911s.

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>>33839970
>likes the XD series

>>33839970
>I like old Springfield rifles and 1911
It's not the same company you idiot. New Springfield capitalizes on the stupidity of people like you.

>>33839970
>he doesn't realize that the brand is meaningless
You must have a double digit IQ

>>33840020
Not that guy but I always did wonder why they didn't sell modernized versions of the Springfield 1903. I thought they were just being retarded or something, it's basically free money

>>33841478
It would be incredibly expensive to tool up to manufacture.

>Well, they'd just have them made in Turkey or Brazil, but still not something the market would support

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Can someone give me a quick rundown?

>>33841478
They don't have all the old Springfield tooling or expertise. The ONLY thing they have is the old Springfield brand.

Springfield is not Springfield. They only use the brand because there are A LOT of morons who can't seem to wrap their minds around that.

>>33841602
>Springfield and Rock River arms CEOs form a lobbying group
>Pay 3rd guy to do what they tell him
>Tell him to fund incredibly anti gun politicians, probably straight up bribes
>Tell him to drop opposition to anti gun bill limiting Illinois residents and FFLs to only 9 transfers a year unless they get a state level FFL in exchange for Springfield and RRA getting exempted from the law
>Bill passes specifically because of this
>"We didn't know the lobbyist group consisting of literally us and one other guy were doing that with hundreds of thousands of our dollars"

>>33841682
also, bonus points for the fact that existing dealers that wish to continue (read: any LGS ever) operating in IL must ALSO get some bullshit state FFL
>but manufacturers are exempt
>9 transfers a year isn't so bad, you say, just do private purchases
nope, all transfers go through the state, no matter what, so you're fucked.

>>33841682
Why those pieces of shit

What are we going to do about this?

I was saving up for a M1A but I don't want to give SA a single penny

Whats a good alternative?

And what can I do to hurt SA and RRA?

>>33841792
Options for better quality custom M14 rifles are listed further up in the thread.

Hurt them by reading The truth about guns articles to be educated then tell fucking everybody.

>>33841792
Don't buy ANYTHING from them and spread the word of their corruption. Word is spread, now, but to hit them hardest, the fudds and normies also need to know what this means, as it could really hurt their 'muh durr rifle' and the like.

>>33841792
a BM59 is a beautiful alternative to an M1A, and generally around the same price if not cheaper.
just kinda a bitch to find, but far more worth it.

>>33841864
What is most disconcerting is many of those with the loudest voices, hickock, iv8888, et al, are keeping silent until they see how the whole thing shakes out.

>>33837436
Still going to buy an M1A just to piss /k/ off :)

>>33842309
No you're not.

>>33842289
And some are outright supporting SA

>>33842330
What's stopping me from buying one? Some guy on a laotian fishing board saying I won't?

>>33842289
you mean they, as internet personalities, are not jumping on the bandwagon until they have more evidence and the complete story is out?

gee, who woulda thunk that maybe people don't want to look like assholes in front of thousands of viewers by taking sides prematurely

REALLY GETS THE OLE NOGGIN' A NOODLIN'

>>33842399
also, inb4 shillicopter guy comes and calls me a shill

>>33842359
You don't have the expendable income to blow $1500-$2000 on a low quality inaccurate rifle, and if you did you'd be smart enough not to. Go buy an XD like the poorfag trailer trash you are.

>>33842436
I want an M1A cause it looks cooler than the FAL and G3 type rifles. I don't care how meh it is.

>>33842447
I just skipped mediocrity and got an M1 Garand like an adult.

>>33842459
I already own an M1 Garand and a M1 Carbine, so figure might as well complete the triforce.

>>33842469
Get a good M14 then, one in military configuration, not some shitty mock up from SA. All faggotry aside, they are legitimately poor quality guns.

>>33842486
But I really don't feel like saving up another $1000 for a Fulton Armory gun, especially how shit their 'authentic' M16A1 clones are.

>>33837436

Ha! I was wondering why my LGS was trying so hard to get rid of their Springfield shit. They were offering free magazines, holsters, cases etc.
I almost went for one, I've never been a big Springfield fan but the deals were legit pretty great. Glad I didn't. The salesman was really trying to get rid of them.

The kicker is that I don't even live in Illinois, I don't even live on that side of the country.

>>33842490
http://www.lrbarms.com/standard-m14-rifles.html

>>33842540
That is literally a standard Springfield marketing thing. The XD always comes with extra free mags, holsters, etc. Because only impulsive retards would buy one, and tgey STILL need incentives.

>>33842399
You're an idiot dumb fuck. What more info do you want? A lobbyist group only they are a part of went neutral and got the bill passed and there's even irs documents proving it and also other docs proving that the same lobby group donated to anti gun politicians.

Stop acting like you're some smart and reasonable voice when you're really just a stupid retard.

>>33842703
I want more info, because the more we know the worse SA looks, and it's fucking morbidly hilarious

What people aren't getting is that this wasn't some big conspiracy to undermine our rights. SA and RRA aren't "traitors," they're just grossly inept.

People point to big names at the manufacturers being listed as VP, Treasurer, etc. of the IFMA as proof that they were involved directly. The error here is assuming that the IFMA is a big lobby organization and they're all attending board meetings to discuss their plans. The fact is, the IFMA is an association only in name. They had to meet the standards of being a lobbying group, they had to name "officials" in the "organization" to lend legitimacy to their lobbyist.

What actually happened here is that the two companies set up the IFMA front, threw money at Jay Keller, and left him to his own devices with the stupid assumption that he would do the right thing.

They don't know a damn thing about politics, so they entrusted it all to a lobbyist, thinking they could hire this guy and set him loose with no oversight. I'm sure Keller gave them lip service, promised it was all going great, and they kept sinking regular payments into the IFMA coffers so he could schmooze his way into the upper echelon of the IL political circle. They were ACTUALLY negligent enough to let him do this without keeping tabs on his expenditures, because they wanted to leave the politics to a "professional."

Of course that kind of stupidity would be taken advantage of, and they assumed everything was just fine until Keller really fucked it up, and they made matters worse by rushing to defend him without knowing the facts of their own situation.

SA and RRA aren't sell-outs, but they are INCREDIBLY ignorant. They thought they could dabble in politics through a third party and ACTUALLY TRUSTED a career politician to speak for them. I'm not trying to defend these guys, they deserve all the shit they're getting. Their negligence caused some serious damage to 2A rights, the spanking they're getting is well deserved.

>>33843536
TL;DR: Springfield and Rock River played a stupid game and won a stupid prize.

We all lost in this one.

>>33843536
>I'm going to make baseless statements out of my ass to defend two companies

If you're a firearms manufacturer in IL you ARE going to pay attention to the legal state and your lobbyists.

Fuck off shill.

>>33843551
I see you never fared well with reading comprehension.

>>33843569
>I'm so smrt I believe a large corporation like Springfield armory would blindly give a lobbyist money and not keep tabs on him

Woah bro so glad for your unique and impressive insight please grace us with more knowledge you mongoloid

>>33843601
>they're a large corporation, so they must know what they're doing!

It happens all the time in corporate bureaucracy. Shit gets out of hand. Sometimes it comes from the top, sometimes the top is the last to hear about it. Look at the fake account racket JP Morgan got tied up in last year. You think the CEO REALLY would have thought it was a good way to make money? Middle management with terrible oversight trying to show good numbers did that and cost the bank millions.

What do you think SA and RRA would have to gain from the carve out? At best, a few more sales from being the most prominent product in local big box stores in IL. But they'd have lost overall from all the FFLs going out of business, and that's only of people HADN'T found out what was going on. Remember, they were paying out, not getting paid. There was literally nothing for them to gain if it was intentional. You think they're going to risk their livelihood on counter-productive political activism?

The simplest answer is usually the right one. It's not a political conspiracy to take your guns by selling them to you(???). It's a classic case of sheer negligence and piss-poor management coming back to bite them in the ass.

If you read my post, you'd see I'm not defending them. I'm STILL pissed at their awe-inspiring retardedness and the damage their fuck up did. But there's a lot of wild accusations and hyperbole flying around. I'm just pointing out that their last statements aren't a complete fabrication. They didn't plan the IFMA's dick move, they just botched their political activism REALLY BAD by assuming Keller knew what he was doing and/or was doing what they really wanted. This is not unheard of. You think the takedowns of unlicensed music and shit on YouTube come from the top? Corporations have legions of free-reign lawyers that do that shit of their own volition, sometimes taking it too far and making their company look bad. Keller's like that, just worse.

>>33837436
Is there a short version of what is going on?

>>33843723
If you honestly think they had no idea what Keller was going up at SA after how long they've worked with him and the kind of relationship they had youre beyond naive and delusional.

>>33843733
This is the company that thought trademarking "GripZone," "Point & Shoot Ergonomics" and "High-Hand" was a good idea.

This is the company that puts a lock in the mainspring of their Brazilian 1911s without even having a semi-understandable reason to like "Smith & Wesson brought to you by Saf-T-Hammer" did.

This is the company who thought their marketing of the Saint was inspirational.

This is not a company known for making good business decisions.

>>33843812
And their guns sell. Just because you think those things are stupid doesn't mean anything. They have entire people and departments dedicated to making decisions they are not going to magically not know they're lobbyist was at this for a month or more.

You're also talking about SA AND RRA here.

>>33843818
>a month or more.
YEARS, AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO ANTI GUN POLITICIANS

>>33843732
See >>33841682

>>33843828
Wow so that just further confirms what I'm saying.

There is ZERO chance SA or RRA didn't know about this happening.

>>33843818
I can't speak for RRA. I imagine they just went along for the ride because "Springfield must know what they're doing."

I have yet to see a compelling argument why either company would do this willingly. The "carve out" isn't even close to a good deal for them. It's less shitty than what everyone else would get, sure, it would still be a terrible change for them.

You think they're stupid enough to not see that, but they're DEFINITELY too smart to give a blank check to a hired lobbyist?

It makes no fucking sense. There's no big deliberate scheme here. This whole fiasco is obviously ignorance and mismanagement of what is basically an ignored stepchild of a political side-project hitting critical mass. Nobody paid attention until it went wrong. That's not a defense of them, it's really fucking bad enough.

>>33843870
Yeah ignore all this: >>33843828 too. I'm sure you know more of what's good for SA then SA does.

They probably knew something about the bill like it was going to get through soon or thought they did and thought no one would find out.

I mean fuck this lobby group has been donating to anti gunners all this time and we just now found out.

>>33843881
The bill passed by ONE vote after the IFMA dropped their opposition. Nobody was worried about this until now. How does that look like a goldmine to Springfield and Rock River again...?

We only found out because we started paying attention. Unfortunately, same goes for them. Keller was spending their money, and they never bothered to ask for a fucking receipt.

Again, plain old negligence was the real problem here.

You seem convinced that SA and RRA are being run by super secret liberal sleeper agents however. Makes a lot more sense.

>>33843891
Stop stating with absolution like you know what's going on here. The evidence points to the contrary, especially if you read some people in the know and what they had to say anecdotally about Keller's relationship with the Reeses like in the arfcom thread.

And nice strawman at the end there dumb fuck. Yeah I'm sure it's far more likely they never noticed a lobbyist who they personally knew very well and paid was spending money on anti gunners.

>>33843891
Holy shit, you are seriously invested in the "Dey wuz gub boys" story here.

>They thoight it was in their interest to pay off and lame duck with the anti gun political establishments in their state
>They were wrong

Pretty straightforward, they figured they were building favor for when shit went really bad, they are idiots but they knew what the money was being used for.

>>33843902
WHAT evidence, man?

So--anecdotally--the Reeses thought Keller was a trustworthy friend. That relationship doesn't say "unprofitable conspiracy," it says "misplaced trust."

I can't imagine their relationship is a friendly one after this shit. Keller's been living the high life, schmoozing politicians, drilling little holes in SA and RRA's boat. He was a family friend not subject to any real scrutiny, and he took advantage of that.

Keller's a fucking con artist. THAT'S where the evidence is. Springfield and Rock River fucked up really bad, and they shouldn't be forgiven lightly. But the fact is, their statement about what happened holds water. Yours can't even form a cohesive explanation of what happened and why, it's just blind rage.

>>33843928
They have known Keller for YEARS.

>Drilling holes in their boat

Is that why he negotiated an exemption for firearms manufacturer right before dropping the fucking opposition of the bill?

You have zero clue what you're talking about and it's cringy as fuck watching you come in here and act all high and mighty like the arbiter of truth.

You haven't discovered anything anyone doesn't already know and your conclusions are stupid.

>>33843915
I'm not saying they dindu nuffin.

I'm saying they were really fucking naive and recklessly gave a shit ton of money to someone without checking that it was being used correctly.

That's plenty damning, I think.

>>33843934
>Is that why he negotiated an exemption for firearms manufacturer right before dropping the fucking opposition of the bill?

That's exactly what a sloppy hack of an amateur lobbyist with no real idea of what he's doing and no real conviction as to why would do. Keller's a useless parasite that's been bankrolled for way too long with no oversight simply because he used to be buddies with the guy writing the checks.

>>33843946
And you know all of this how? From everyone's perspective he was doing the bidding of the people who were paying him for years and negotiated them a way out from this bill.

You have no proof to back up what you're saying why should we believe that for years rra or sa paid zero attention to what this guy was doing?

>>33843955
Where's your proof that they WERE telling him to do it?

And where's your fucking justification WHY they would do that?

That's the important thing here. They had NOTHING to gain by funding anti-gunners.

Keller did, because he's a fucking lobbyist. Kissing everyone's ass is how lobbyists maintain their lifestyle.

Keeping inept friends around destroys so many businesses. This is a classic case of nepotism going off the deep end. It's the simplest explanation, the precedent is there, the story lines up. Springfield isn't out to get you, they're just insanely poorly managed.

>>33843977
Because you idiot when they get exempted right before their own lobby group drops opposition what do you fucking think the logical conclusion is?

This guy was paid by them exclusively and until you come up with anything to support your dumb notion of him being "rogue" then you're just blowing smoke.

>>33843987
He probably never thought he was going "rogue," but he sure as hell wasn't doing something SA and RRA told him to.

He made a stupid concession and gave up a fight they weren't even at risk of losing and screwed over the people he was representing. Exemption or not, it was a bad deal and plainly bad for business.

Even if he'd never been caught it would have been bad for everyone, SA and RRA included.

If not rogue, then totally fucking inept. Who the hell would tell him to do something that dumb? It was unequivocally a BAD DEAL.

>>33844033
How the fuck do you know that? You're just talking out of your ass. The whole point is he does their bidding and until you have something concrete it is only reasonable to assume he did their bidding.

You're being absolutely ridiculous.

>>33844042
The whole point of hiring a lobbyist is to have someone who can navigate the political arena and pursue your interests for you. You don't typically have to tell them how to do their job, because they're supposed to know how to do it better than you.

When a guy takes your money and works against your interests, he's either a con man or a retard.

SA and RRA's sin was not watching what this guy they paid was doing with their money.

If you believe anything else, WHAT IS THEIR FUCKING MOTIVE?

>>33844058
Yes I'm sure you know all of this from your extensive experience as a lobbyist in the IL gun manufacturer world.

>Works against your interest

You still don't get it you fucking retard. He worked out an exemption for them, just because you keep saying it's against their interest doesn't make it so.

You have no idea what was going on discussion wise between them and you're ignoring people who have talked with and have actual anecdotal experience either with Keller or the Reese family in favor of your verbal diarrhea.

>>33844071
Again, what evidence?

You keep talking about your anecdotes, but you're not even giving me hearsay.
You're just saying "somebody said something that proves you're wrong!"

>>33844093
The burden of proof is on you for stating a bought and paid for lobbyist working directly for RRA and SA who knew the Reese family for a long time and was working as a lobbyist since 1989 or 1990 organized an exemption for the companies he worked for against their wishes and then dropped the opposition to the bill right after that exemption was granted and did all that you're saying and went against what you magically know as RRA and SAs wishes for undescribed reasons.

Prove it.

>>33837760
Are you me? I have been trying decide between a S.A. milspec or the BKO. Now the decision is simple.

>>33844106
I don't need to play that game. It should be common fucking sense. The funds were mismanaged by a crooked lobbyist.

Why the hell would two firearms manufacturers instruct him to fund anti-gunners? Why would they tell him to take a deal that would plainly hurt their sales, exception or not?

You have NO answers for that.

How could they not know what he was doing with the money?

Because he was close to the company owners, considered a trusted friend, and left to his own devices.

Why would he do that?

By the very nature of his job, he's getting buddy-buddy with every IL politician on both sides of the aisle. You really think he's not lining his own pockets by pulling a fast one here and there? He took out too far and got caught this time.

SA and RRA's statements should absolutely be taken with a grain of salt in a situation like this. But guess what, the story matches up with everything we know for sure. And it's the only explanation that makes a lick of sense.

>>33844152
>It's common sense

I'm done responding to you. Fucking Christ you're ignorant. I asked you to prove any one of the things you're saying and as I expected nothing.

>Actually suggesting rra and sa statements are possibly true

Well I know why you're trying so hard now. maybe they'll keep you on all the way up until bankruptcy you pathetic weasel.

>>33844152
Springfield must be really desperate if they're hiring shills to shitpost here.

>>33844158
>asked you to prove any one of the things you're saying

And what did you prove? You couldn't even quote your ethereal "anecdotal evidence."

>they'll keep you on all the way up until bankruptcy

God, I WISH I could get paid for arguing with fragile paranoiacs like you. Maybe you missed me calling the people at SA and RRA incompetent morons a dozen or so times for getting themselves into this clusterfuck. They're not innocent by any means.

>>33837730
RRA and SA are pretty much the only gun game in Illionois, so any IL. lobbying group for manufacturers is going to be from them.

They should fucking know better. Remington (in Ilion almost exclusively back then) danced with the devil that was NY antigunenrs and now Rem is a shadow of it's former self and they have smaller operations elsewhere./

>>33837752
Of course they are - they are the only game in the state

>>33844205
I love that this is treated like a trump card in an argument.

I hate that people stupid enough to use it are on this board.

>>33837601
My only springfield gun was a NIB XDs months after it was released.
This is going to suck for them, they wanted to release the XD-E to fanfair.
Honestly I'm at the point where we need to email HSprodukt and tell them to pull the license and stop using Springfield as it's importer. Let Century do it, they may be monkeys but at least they are red blooded american monkeys who don't pull shit like this.
Then while we're at it we might as well call Imbel.....

>>33837775
LRB and JRA.
At the price point I recommend 110% you head on over to Classic Arms and pick up a JRA BM-59 for 1300 bucks - it's 10x the gun the M1A is, and overall is a better platform than the M14 in general (actual garand reciever, non cucked garand gas system, shorter, handier, lighter)

>>33838150
They don't even make any fucking guns, they are basically a importer, they at most do final assembly here now (GRIPZONE Frames, assembling 1911's from Imbel frames). EAA is more of a manufacturer because Tangfolio actually has a large ownership share of EAA

>>33841792
Buy a norinco, better quality. Or buy a lrb, or buy a used SA so they don't get any money from the deal. Or just buy a fal

>>33838250
This is going to bite back so fucking hard it'll make their fucking heads spin. I'm already asking people to email HSprodukt and Imbel to drop Springfield as an importer.

This isn't the fucking 80's/90's anymore where you can get away with this shit. It took S&W and Ruger fucking YEARS to recover. S&W's sales hit rock bottom coming up to the sunset, because thanks to the internets proliferation consumers knew exactly who fucked them. Ruger had to do a 180 after Bill died because it risked going under as well.

We need to go full fucking dragonforce on this one and bury both companies into the dirt.
I don't care if you practice sleazy business practices, hell I don't give a fuck if you chain mail everyone warning of impending gun ban #900990992 and to buy your gun before it's banned, the second you go over to the enemy you engage in behavior that is beyond unethical

>>33838287
Commie state residents deserve a restoration of their rights, not further infringements

>>33839945
>>33839970
All springfield has ever been is an importer.
They import Imbel and HSprodukt now.

>>33842490
JRA is cheaper than Fulton - as is LRB.

Stop bringing up Fulton faggots

Under 2k for a JRA.
An even better idea is a used Norinco (USA - fuck off and die canada). They are usually 1k and only need a few parts like a new front sight and bolt to be g2g

>>33843536
One is a firearms importer who's manufacturing process ends either molding GRIPZONE frames for HS2000's or final assembly on Imbel 1911 frames and slides.
The other is a low tier, formerly mid tier AR manufacturer.

There is nothing to defend fuckwad

>>33843870
>I can't speak for RRA. I imagine they just went along for the ride because "Springfield must know what they're doing."

>RRA is a lower tier AR manufacturer (used to be mid, now is upper bottom rung)
>Springfield is releasing an AR and is a competitor as well as a legislative ally
>Bull fucking shit

>>33843891
It's less possible with RRA. More possible with SA because it's not only a corporation but a importer which makes very little

>>33843928
This isn't the 90's anymore. There is zero fucking tolerance for this kind of shit in the gun community. S&W and Ruger barely survived that shit. A bigger example needs to be made, as in we need to fucking bury one of them and leave the other a shell of it's former self.

It's fucking inexcusable. Imagine if Hillary won the election and the SA/RRA was cutting deals with dems on the hill? It's not far fetched in the least, IFMA advertises itself to the dems as friendly even before this boondoggle, so a Clinton 2.0 administration would know full fucking well that SA/RRA were cooperative.

Absolute
Zero
Fucking Tolerance

>>33844152
IFMA was a collaborative legislative effort between two COMPETITORS, there is no fucking excuse, RRA should have been tracking that shit - I can see springfield goofing due to relations w/ keller, but RRA not keeping tabs? No. That's straight up fucking bullshit - they were trying to hash out a nuclear option, cozy up a bit to the dems in case the IL or federal legislative situations went south - the problem is is Keller pushed the button despite the coast being almost clear like a pre-ejaculating cuck

>>33844164
Springfields entire brand is image, because they import everything else. They probably have an army of Shills over on ARFCOM and XDtalk right now.

>>33837885
This is what it feels like to be cheated on

>>33837436
Oy vey, goyim, don't you tire of all the -gates?

>>33838378
Dubs dont lie

>>33837679
Same here XDs EDC bro. Always wanted a P938 anyways.
>b-but muh XD is shit
Spergs and nogunz here on /k/ like to shit on XD because muh grip safety and muh GRIP ZONE, but they're actually rock-solid reliable guns. It sucks that Springfield chose to get in bed with the leftisits because I would have bought a full size XDm and an M1A someday. Not anymore.

Someone should do more digging into other companies connections with lobbying groups. I bet we could dig up a lot of dirt.

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>>33842703
im not even arguing with you, you moronical fucking child. You're just too dumb to realize it.

I've been keeping an eye on youtube vids the last few days to see what channels are shilling and who is addressing the issue. I'm seeing a pattern.

1) all the big boys ain't saying shit
2) some mid/low tier channels with actual subscribers are coming out against SA/RRA
3) shit tier/no subs channels are still covering SA's shitty guns like they always have. they have no or few comments but if the DO have comments it's about how SA is a shit.
4) one channel just put a glowing review of the XD40 problem solver. All the comments are positive or "I don't really care about SA's indiscretions.....hmmm....never heard of this channel who is....oh....niggers...right.

>>33844679
Oh I gotta ammend #1. I forgot about nevereuffammo, AKOU and Hank Strange. All big channels that have come out against SA.

>>33843536
wassup fellow shill, apparently by trying to figure out what actually happened we are SA/RRA owners or fanbois defending the honor of our chosen companies.

Ot couldnt possibly be that being a CEO of a mud size manufqcturer of a heavily regulated product is a time consuming job that leaves barely anytine for your own family let alone time for politics.


>Keller gave them lip service, promised it was all going great, and they kept sinking regular payments into the IFMA coffers so he could schmooze his way into the upper echelon of the IL political circle. They were ACTUALLY negligent enough to let him do this without keeping tabs on his expenditures, because they wanted to leave the politics to a "professional."

and Keller also neglected to disclose the political donations of the IFMA, this may have been intentional to obfuscate his actual activities with Larson and Reese.

Ham planet youtuber rambling about "truth"(truth is u look like u got the beetus) gets a RRA rep to talk, she gives the company line he eats it up. It's funny because at first she's all like "I can't really say anything", then he drops a line that is all sympathetic to RRA and like "I know you're just misunderstood" and she starts running at the mouth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyqSZ9gwJaY

>>33843733
>If you honestly think they had no idea what Keller was going up at SA after how long they've worked with him and the kind of relationship they had youre beyond naive and delusional.

you could possibly be right, but you dont have enough evidence to prove it, we all aknowledge that you could be, and have a good chance at being correct, but would like more proof before we start eating our own.

All you're offering pure conjecture based on the little circumstantial evidence currently available, and crucifying not only those you think are directly guilty, but also everyone and anyone who is telling you in a roundabout way to calm the fuck down and see what happens before passing judgement.

and stop overusing the word "shill", because you sound like a complete asshole.

>>33843828
tens of thousands. not hundreds

>>33844810
In our community the appearance of impropriety is enough IMO. Either they were incompetent or they were corrupt. If they really were so careless with their money that they had no idea they were funding the opposition then fuck them anyway.

At this point I really don't see a way back into the hearts of dedicated 2A supporters for these two companies. Will this ruin them in the long run? I don't know but we're already in a soft market thanks to 8 years of panic buying and the relief of the election so, imo, it's not looking good for them.

Newfags, mallninjas and retards buying XDs might be enough to keep SA afloat I dunno. RRA is done. There's just too many AR15 companies to compete with to overcome a disadvantage this big.

>people on /k/ are actually defending Springfield

>>33844810
this isn't a court case you fucking armchair lawyer. they fucked up and are going to see the repercussions of their actions in their sales.

>>33837458
>Twang n bang
What the fuck man,he was a cool guy.

>>33844970
>people on /k/ are actually retarded
Yep.

Fuck what they did or didn't do, tbey deserve to go under just for who they are.

>>33844970
>people on /k/ are flying off the handle over shit they made up in their own minds and typed out like its divine gospel

>>33844983
you're going to get hypertension and die of heart disease if you dont calm down

>>33845012
shouldnt you be blocking a road or stopping free speech on a college campus somewhere?

>>33845069
struck a chord?

>>33843536
>The error here is assuming that the IFMA is a big lobby organization and they're all attending board meetings to discuss their plans. The fact is, the IFMA is an association only in name. They had to meet the standards of being a lobbying group, they had to name "officials" in the "organization" to lend legitimacy to their lobbyist.
There were 5 people in the lobby. FIVE. Two from Springfield, two from RRA, and the lobbyist themselves. SA and RRA were the only members of the lobby. Coincidently, SA and RRA benefited greatly from their lobby making a little 'oopsie' and fucking over everyone else in the state.
>They don't know a damn thing about politics
Yeah, just like Ruger and S&W in the 90's, they didn't sell everyone out for exemptions, they were just ignorant!

Shoo Shoo gun goblin.

>>33837458
Ammoland is pretty much just a wire service.

>>33838226
[sensible chuckle]

>>33841682
Its actually pretty smart they basically locked down the market to themselves.

>>33844251
>Dont buy Chinese imports
>buy straight up Chinese

>>33843536
it wasn't a conspiracy to undermine the second amendment, it was a conspiracy to make lots of money and if the second amendment got in the way, who gives a shit?

>>33845130
>There were 5 people in the lobby.
I'm well aware. It's a stretch to even call it a lobby, because 4 of those 5 people weren't even involved beyond setting it up and funding it. Keller did everything else while they entrusted him and went back to running their own businesses. Big mistake.

>SA and RRA benefited greatly
Are you kidding me? Even with the exemption, this bill hurts them by driving small gun shops out of business and limiting their customers in IL. There's no way in hell they'd have signed off on that if they'd actually heard the details from Keller. They gave him too much slack, didn't pay attention, and landed in this shit for it. They may have gotten off better than everyone else, but they're still losing money. The exemption only makes them look even worse, there's no benefit here. They'd have known that.

>Shoo Shoo gun goblin.
What the fuck? Are you 12?

>>33845204
Closing the shops that sell your product, stopping your customers from buying more than a certain number of your products per year, and making yourself look like massive douchebags nationwide to get more shelf space in ONE state?

Yeeeah, no. If you think this was a money-making scheme Springfield dreamed up instead of a horrible mistake by a dumbass lobbyist with no supervision, I have an RFID-blocking hat you might be interested in.

>>33845291
Doesn't this mean that only boutique shops that are really Springfield supported can charge whatever the fuck they want while Springfield can lower their production volume and make more money?

>>33845249
Explain how your conspiracy would actually have made them any money.

"When we're the only gun company in Illinois, all the desperate rednecks in the state will have to buy from meeeee!
Bwahaha!"

Something like that? I think you have a great idea for the next Bond villain.

>>33845317
Their exemption also covered big box retailers whose total gun sales did not exceed 20% of their total business.

In theory they could leverage that position to charge those outlets more for their product in exchange for forcing smaller dealers out of business and funneling customers to the only outlets left in business.

>>33837436


RRA seems to be really pissing themselves, and for good reason. But they also seem to be mroe than willing to ditch SA et al over this and would be willing to suck a few dicks to get back in our good graces.

My question is how cheap can I get a 458 socom upper from these poor fools? I do feel bad for them.

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>>33845254
>because 4 of those 5 people weren't even involved beyond setting it up and funding it.
You know this how?
>Keller did everything else while they entrusted him and went back to running their own businesses. Big mistake.
Prove it fuckboy. Prove that both SA and RRA were 100% trusting on this guy and shoveled ten of thousands of dollars into his arms and didn't even have occasional cursory looks to make sure the guy wasn't spending that money on anti-gun politicians or if he was supporting an anti-gun bill. But I'm sure you'll say something like "How could RRA and SA ever know about an anti-gun bill that would fuck over everyone in the state! It's not like that was public information or that they had supposedly started a lobby to influence politicians to vote in their favor on such bills!"
>Are you kidding me? Even with the exemption, this bill hurts them by driving small gun shops out of business and limiting their customers in IL
You know that they sell in places other than IL, right? That the majority of their sales happen out of the state? That maybe having to apply for a new state license might have fucked them over and forced them to move their operation if they couldn't obtain one?
> There's no way in hell they'd have signed off on that if they'd actually heard the details from Keller
Weird, because they were both members of the lobby and therefore more than likely entitled to the information on what the lobby was actually doing. RRA and SA were filthy jews and they got caught with their hand in the piggy bank
> They may have gotten off better than everyone else, but they're still losing money.
More money that it would have cost to move the operation out of state?
> The exemption only makes them look even worse, there's no benefit here. They'd have known that.
Because they didn't expect to get caught you troglodyte shill
>What the fuck? Are you 12?
I guess that confirms that you are indeed a newfag. Please try lurking before posting and shilling

>>33845365
I only feel bad for the people who got dragged into this mess. I could care less about the people who did put RRA in the position where they are now. The Same goes for SA.

>>33844970
Post-purchase rationalization.

They've bought SA before, so they cannot bring themselves to admit SA did something wrong. This is the hallmark of a profoundly weak mind.

>>33845514
I don't need understand this phenomenon at all. The quality of the gun doesn't change because of their political fuckery. It's just I can't in good conscience buy guns from a compny that puts their bottom line ahead of my human rights.

>>33843536
Broham. You fuck up and betray your people, either by accident or by intent, the end result is the same.

I spent 7 years in the military, and I learned something: It doesnt matter why you do what you do, its the end result that matters.

The end result is that Springfiend and Cock River betrayed the gun community. They fucked us at a time we didnt need fucking.

you dont get a pat on the head and a rub on the belly for killing a guy by accident. You go to jail all the same. You want to call them ignorant? No. They were Negligent.

And that is fucking preventable, and unforgivable, especially on the level of companies that old, and that large, That they dont have their shit together. Fuck them.

>>33845551
If SA did something bad, then they wish they hadn't given SA money. But they DID give SA money, so post-purchase rationalization kicks in and they decide SA did nothing wrong.

It's not logical, it's emotional.

>>33845608
Your post is pretty much entirely correct, but just to be clear...

>especially on the level of companies that old,
SA has only been around since 1974. I hope you're not falling for their branding. That name is just a name, they licensed it. It means nothing.

>>33845610
Jesus Christ that is such a cucked way to think. I would at least understand if they're clutching at straws because they want to keep buying SA products in the future with a clear conscience.


Anyway, what's everyone's current do not buy list?

Mine:
Ruger
S&W
SA
RRA

I'll admit I've bought a couple thing from CTD. Maybe I need to revisit that.

>>33845374
You're awful hung up on demanding proof for someone who's so convinced that SA and RRA are "traitors" because of a blog post from TTAG. All anyone knows for sure is that Keller gave money to a lot of people he shouldn't have. Anything beyond that is he-said she-said.

Despite that, you're so convinced of your version of events that any other possible explanation is blatant lies or shilling. Seems reasonable. I also apologize for not being hip with your dank reddit memes.

>>33845608
I called them negligent repeatedly. I said they deserved the shit they were getting for this massive fuck up. I'm just trying to point out that the sellout conspiracy bullshit flying around is just that. Bullshit. People need to calm the fuck down, it's not too late to be made right. But by all means, show your displeasure by voting with your wallet. That's the best way to make sure they don't do something that stupid again.

>>33845688
I own guns from two companies on that list. Feelsbadman; still like the guns but irritated that my money went to the enemy.

>>33845705
EITHER SA/RRA were malicious, OR they were negligent.

Either way, it doesn't matter. The end result was the same and a boycott is justified in either case.

>>33845688
For me, its:
CTD
SA
RRA
S&W- This only applies to their revolvers with that stupid Hillary Hole. I would gladly throw money at "lockless" revolvers as a way of saying "you're doing something right"

Why is Ruger on your no buy list? Bill has been dead for a long time, they're even making ARs now.

>>33845688
My do not buy list:

1)S&W guns with hillary holes

2)SA

3)RRA

4)CTD

5)Troy

6) Dick's

>>33845729
>no buy list
Few things feel better in the "gun community" than moral superiority.

Shits retarded. They moved on why can't everyone else?

>>33845745
Oops, Troy is on mine too but I plain forgot to add. Damn shame because I like their sights. Great catch.

Do you buy anything from Dicks or just not guns? The guns I see at dicks are just boring fudd shit I have no interest in

>>33845769
I don't have an obligation to spend my money on anything other than loans and to feed my child, faggot

>>33845783
I haven't been in Dick's since their fuckery. Lots of other places that sell the exact same shit.

>>33845769
The only thing I can control is what I do. So I do what I feel needs doing. You do whatever you want. IDGAF.

>>33845809
True enough. I do the vast majority of my shopping online. Going to a store or a mall feels so... retro

>>33845789
>>33845821
That was exactly my point!

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You wanna see what owning your fuck ups looks like? PAY ATTENTION SQ AND RRA

http://www.breachbangclear.com/mike-lamb-comes-clean/

Was he a total fag for 20 years? Yup. Can people grow beyond being total fags? I want to believe.

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>>33845954
Fuck i have to own up to not typing SA properly now...

>RRA and SA are so deep into the pit that they have to buy shills to call their own company retards to try to make them look better

>>33845954
>Can people grow beyond being total fags?
Yes but you are not required to trust them or give them your money for their products anymore.

>>33846029
No doubt, my point is that the beginning of not being a total fag is admitting you have been a total fag publicly and accepting the consequences even if those consequences are total ruination.

>>33845705
watch that backpedalling!

>dicks sporting goods
>troy
what did they do?

>>33844361
>LRB is cheaper than Fulton
>prices start at $2500 and up

>>33846373
Dick's pulled scary rifles after sandy hook. And they had sold a shit load of cheap ARs on a black friday deal which were not in stock and instead of delivering on what now would be a loss for them due to rising prices they canceled everyone's order.

Troy employed(in one of their training companies) two individuals employed as jackboots in the Ruby Ridge massacre.

>>33846373
Dicks shuffled all their semi-auto rifles that weren't rimfire over to Field and Stream, which they own, following the Sandy Hook shooting in order to preserve their image.

They also cancelled any special order that was pending for centerfire semi-autos with no notice when they did it, which screwed about 2500 people out of super-cheap AR's they had purchased and paid for during Black Friday.

Troy knowingly hired the Ruby Ridge sniper that shot Vicki Weaver through a door and his spotter to work as consultants for their training subsidiary.

>>33845705
Why are you continually shilling here? No one believes or thinks you're telling the truth.
>>33845729
>>33845745
Remington. They are cucks of the highest order.

18.5k views on this NRApubs XD-E vid....but NO comments? Damn near every Springfield related video I see the comments are mostly some version of FUCK SA.

Something is fucky. I think it's the NRA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ0U2FksLbY

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>>33846571
>Remington.
Meh they are shit tier but they pulled a large portion of their business to a free state(pic related) and, as far as I know, don't fund gun grabbing politicians with political donations.

>>33846571
Are you just memeing it up with all that shill talk, or are you seriously retarded?

I don't care what you think if you're really that stupid.

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>>33837436
RRA response to my e-mail.
That poor poor woman, how many people are they sending this to?

I wonder how many gun makers are having meetings this week with their own lobbyists after this PR nightmare.

>>33846687
If you don't want people to think you're a shill maybe you should stop sucking SAs cock like a $5 hooker.

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I hated Springfield Armory before it was cool to hate them.
RRA actually makes good stuff though and that makes me sad.

>>33846714
Jesus, you really are retarded.

I feel so sorry for your parents. I can't imagine how disappointed they are.

Goatboy from the arf thread:

Ok spoke with a friend who works with a lobbyist in the IL area. They are reaching out to said lobbyist for final clarification on the potential of donations having had alternate meanings.

They were very clear that, to their knowledge, NO DONATIONS are accepted for meetings to discuss any legislation, or voting on legislation in IL. This by itself is not 100% proof, but it was pretty strongly worded that they had never seen, or been asked for, any kind of donation. The fact that multiple donations were made to different folks really puts this point as close to solid as it gets. I should hear a final IL lobbyist stamp of approval on this, but it definitely seems like those donations were simply donations. If SA/RRA were not aware of the donations, that is entirely on them. They were responsible for their lobbyist's actions.

The other thing that was discussed it why a lobbyist is brought into things to begin with. I was told that a lobbyist is expected to take the reigns and be self guided to achieve their goals and that they are not micromanaged. It was explained, that a lobbyist could have glossed over the exemption ("you wont have to worry about 1657") and not gone into specifics. The issue here is that it's an important piece of legislation and not something that should have been ignored and not discussed in detail. Again, while the lobbyist may not have fed them all the details, they had the responsibility to know exactly what was going on.

The final point we discussed was how bad it is in IL and that the answer to all of this should have been to move out of state. Many folks have packed up and left to pull money away from anti second state governments and we both agreed we would have already left. Not to be a jerk, but the border to Iowa is a few miles away. (Just sayin!)

Still waiting to hear back from RRA.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1988839_Springfield-and-RRA-make-a-deal-with-gun-banners-in-IL-.html&page=27

>>33846871
tl;dr

This isn't a complicated issue. They fucked up and now they will pay the price.

>>33843536
>I had no idea what the dude I'm paying to represent me is doing
Yeah, nah, fuck off

>>33846932
Posted mainly for the holdouts still calling for due diligence. That due diligence is happening and it's putting more earth over the coffin of SA and RRAs lame excuses.

>>33846571
you just hate everyone, don't you?


you probably just hate large companies just to hate large companies

you're a fucking communist agitator

>>33846494
Lon Horiuchi is the assholes name, and absolutely fuck troy.

>>33847134
Remington did absolutely nothing to stop the SAFEACT from passing and licked Cuomo's boots for the privilege of not being shut down.

>>33846687
your posts remind me of that asshole that got his jimmies rustled because midway cancelled a bunch of 223 ammo orders due to listing it at an incorrect price.

fuck off dude, you dont belong here

can we make an UNBIASED Tldr of this? correct me if im wrong.
>IL wanted to make legislation hurting gun sales/transfers (????), springfield stepped in to lobby against it.
>law changed to not impact springfield or other major companies
>springfield backs out?
if this is right, you guys MUST remember that springfield is a company. companies are there to make money, and if a company has less competition, they can make more money.
i'm sure somethings wrong here, so correct it if you're bothered

>>33847271
Nope you got that pretty right, but also left out the political donations going to anti-gun politicians for years.And then there's the obviously bullshit statements they're made since this all came out trying to CYA instead of owning their mistakes.

You also need to understand that the gun industry is not like the snack food industry. It is small enough that it's patrons demand a certain level of adherence to our core principles. Companies stray from this ethic at their peril. So yeah they are free to sell out an entire state of gun owners and small shops for their own benefit and the gun owning community is free to cut them off to wither on the vine like the shit stains that they are.

>>33847200
Nah. Stay mad, faggot.

>>33847271
>if this is right, you guys MUST remember that springfield is a company. companies are there to make money,
Maybe Springfield should have considered what loss of consumer respect would do to their bottom line. Consumers are well within their rights to punish Springfield for doing this. Expecting consumers to side with a private corporations profit over the 2nd Amendment is delusional.

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>>33847271
What the fuck is wrong with you? Holy shit the cuckery in this thread is off the charts.

>>33846410
I also don't support Under Armor after the anti-hunting shit they pulled

>>33847572
I always forget about them because I never bought their shit anyway.

>>33847547
I'M USING CAPS SO YOU KNOW I'M SERIOUS

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>>33837436
to anyone that has noticed an increase in leftist threads or shitposting like
>k is a progressive board
there's a raid going on by libtards

>>33847709
I bet this thread is pretty safe from that shit. They'd have to know something about the industry to shitpost this one.

>>33837601
This hurts too much...i guess I'm not going to buy the m1a I wanted

>>33847728
I've seen a lot of shitposters saying it will cut down the crime

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>>33847811
That was ONE post. Made me kek.

>>33845353
That includes all the big-box retailers though. Cabela's, Gander, Bass Pro, Academy, (since this is IL) Rural King, Farm King, Fleet Farm, etc. None of them make more than a couple percent of their total sales from gun sales, and big-box stores sell the largest number of guns of any firearms outlet.

>>33847572
>Under Armour
>has been rapidly and vastly expanding their hunting apparel line for 10 years
>has only existed since 1991
>has only made things other than shoes since 1998
>holds military contracts for combat gear
Uh. What anti-hunting shit?

>>33847996
Facebabbys threw a fit after a hunter sponsored by underarmour posted a vidja of him taking down a bear while spear hunting. Underarmour caved and dropped their sponsorship.

>>33844810
>Your conjecture which follows basic logic is wrong but mine which ignores it is right

You shills are unbelievable

>>33848054
So basically
>wow it's fucking nothing

>>33844361
JRA receivers are cast, and as mentioned, LRB is fucking expensive

>>33848054
Nigga thats not anti-hunting

>>33844189
You've been shilling this entire time and still we're going at it after this post. Unbelievable.

You probably don't even remember what happened to Team Wendy you dumb fuck shill.

>>33843536
shoo shoo shilling jew

>>33848131
Anti-spear hunting is anti-hunting.

Lmao goatboy on arfcom going full damage control for rra (site sponsor) just like this weasel kike cunt did for Troy.

Fuck arfcom, just reminding me why I never go to or use that shit hole.

>>33848319
If you read >>33846871

You will see that the information he is gathering is, in fact, taking a huge shit all over the claims both SA and RRA have made. It's a business decison for him since RRA is a site sponsor. He's doing his research before he makes a decision. If nothing else he might be more honest this time because I don't think he's personal friends with RRA like he is with Troy. It will give him a chance to gain back a smidge of face after the Troy shit if he shitcans RRA.

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>>33848319
SA and RRA should be crucified but if people start going after everyone who ever had their name associated with them then it will just be mostly wild goose chases distracting from the main issue.

>>33848366
He's being a little shit saying to "wait for them to clarify"

Third time's the charm right?

They've had plenty the of time. After how they handled Troy I will never respect them and they deserve all the ill you can get for that shit.

>>33848386
Wrong. You can continue to support and watch shills if you want, I won't.

>>33848293
Spearing a bear to death is not ethical as a hunter.
You should minimize the animal's suffering when you take it. I'm willing to bet that the kill was nowhere near as quick or clean as it would have been from a rifle or even handgun or crossbow.
I can't fault anybody who takes offense to that. It's not anti-hunting, it's anti-dickwad.

>>33849131
>>Spearing a bear to death is not ethical as a hunter.
Blow it out your ass. Men have been hunting boar with spears for thousands of years you filthy hippy.

>>33841792
Get an older used one

>>33847419
>>33847328
>>33847547
believe me, i'm not saying that Springfield and friends are in the right, i'm just tryena see through the bullshit from both sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioM5NZ-fwtI

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/editorial-what-did-springfield-armory-and-rock-river-arms-know-and-when-did-they-know-it/

>>33848319
I don't understand why so many people flock to barfcom. The forums are dry as shit in the Sahara.

>>33849131
What a faggot you are. Unethical? Do you realize how level a playing field there is if you're killing a motherfucking bear with a spear? Most people would end up being the bear's meal rather than the other way around. If I killed a bear with a spear I would be telling every motherfucker around me for years about it.

>>33849669
That is one flagrantly homosexual man.

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>>33849956
I guess SA and RRA's check to TTAG cleared?

He basically lays out how he alerted them to the activities of their lobbyist in regards to donations to anti-gun assocrats in FEBRUARY.

Then he goes on to say they MIGHT not have been aware of what their lobbyist was up to. Then he welcomes them to the team to help stand up for 2A rights?

OMGWTFBBQ What timeline is this??

>>33848123
But they aren't cast by Brazilians

Also to the faggot claiming SA and RRA were just ignorant ITT the new TTAG article has the author listing how he called SA and RRA owners in FEBRUARY questioning Keller's position and the fact that he was going to cut a deal with Harmon.

So kill yourselves SA and RRA shills it's fucking over. You're done. No more money.

Enjoy your bankruptcy faggots.

>>33850035
Doesn't matter what the opinion of the writers are what matters is even more facts are here and they're damning.

Only ignorant shills will believe rra and SA now.

>>33837679
>replace my XDS
fuck, i have one too. i loved that they sent me some extra mags and shit for it. just bought a full sized handgun. going to wait to get a new compact piece

time to buy some more springfields before they become legendarily rare :) my XD is pretty great

>>33844152
Occam's razor would favor this guy.

Anon is a prophet Goatboy is officially sucking the dick.

>On a positive note, RRA has been very active the past two days in getting new lobbyists involved and have shown a willingness to put everything on the line to defeat this bill. People involved do not feel this it's an act to save face, especially since it hasn't even been publicly reported, and welcome their commitment.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1988839_Springfield-and-RRA-make-a-deal-with-gun-banners-in-IL-.html&page=28

It looks to me a lot like it did when S&W went down. The NRA and all the print media went full shill mode to try to keep S&W from going down. In the end the gun community wasn't buying what they were selling and S&W got sold for pennies on the dollar. I hope it goes down just as hard for SA and RRA.

>>33849956
Fucking rat Jew fuck I wonder how much the check he got was for?

YOU CANNOT trust any of these fucking lobbyist rats or NRA rats. EVER.

>>33850216
I expected nothing more from a Troy cock blower.

It sucks we have enough enemies on the other side but now finding out that theyre not just on the other side but all around you.

Fuck all of these people. I really hope not only RRA and SA rot but all of these shills do as well.

>>33845783
Why troy tho?

>>33850290
Troy hired people involved in killing innocent children during the waco incident and defended it. Read: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_397/239784_Troy-Industries-Statement.html&page=1

>>33850290
>>33846494
>Troy knowingly hired the Ruby Ridge sniper that shot Vicki Weaver through a door and his spotter to work as consultants for their training subsidiary.

>>33850290
Nvm I'm retarded

Clearance sale when? I'll take those guns nobody wants when they're $300 or so under MSRP.

>>33850366
Die faggot

>>33850470
Nah, your mother's pussy is too good to leave behind.

>>33846871
>Iowa
Indiana fucking sucks but I'd rather live here than Iowa desu

>>33850022
That situation can be completely avoided if you don't run after a bear with a fucking spear

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Springfield is even emailing saying they dont support the shit in illonois

springfield is on full damage control

and they should know that we know of their bullshit

do you think the NRA is trying to cover for springfield and RRA?

>>33852383
Without a doubt. The NRA loves corporate cock.

>>33852421
The NRA is basically the IFMA at the national level.

I know I'm late but TYM's video is up.

https://youtu.be/ioM5NZ-fwtI

>>33846410
>>33846494
>>33847572
Hear! Hear!
I almost forgot about these turd burglars.
Amen.

>>33849131
The move ain't about whether or not spear hunting is hunting or not.
For me, It's about whether Under Armor is a fucking progressive, nu-male pussy company or not.
I will not buy Under Armor, because they pussed out over the sensitivities of some sheltered children of helicopter parent's concerns, rather than celebrate the fact that one of their sponsored hunters was truly a Mufuggin' BADA$$, and SPEARED a GAWDAMN bear!

A company *I* support would celebrate this feat of manliness, not back away from it.

TL;DR: Fuck UnderArmor

>>33844152
>>33850213
"I am responsible for every action that occurs within the scope of my command."

"I didn't know my Soldiers were slaughtering the villagers" is not a valid excuse.

>>33852383
I came here to post this, too.

I got this e-mail from a "Springfield Armory" e-mail notification address.

--STOP THE LEGISLATION in ILLINOIS! YOUR GUN RIGHTS ARE IN DANGER!!--

Muthafuckas- YOU are the reason that they are in danger!

...I'm pretty fuckin' pissed right now.

So did SA and RRA release joint statements while I was asleep that they're firing themselves effective immediately so they can continue to support he 2A by funding democrat gun grabbers with the money of freedom-loving Americans?

>>33856007
Afraid not, sorry.

>>33837436
Holy shit, thought I read that as "Rock Island Armory" and had a near damn heart attack.

>>33852383
I just got this too.
SA and RRA are dead to me.
Too bad cause I kinda liked that XDe

>>33838672
>SHILL SHILL SHILL SHILL SHILL SHILLSHILLSHILLSHILL

I fucking hate you right now. How about you answer the question instead of screaming shill, you child.

>>33856074
The answer is: before they cut their deal this bill would have imposed the same huge regulatory and financial burden on SA and RRA as everyone else hurting their bottom line.

It's not rocket science chief.

>>33856083
I still don't understand how asking for clarification makes someone a shill.

>SHILL

>>33856096
So someone called you a name on the internet. It means nothing. Suck it up. Stop being a pussy.

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>>33856116

>>33838237
Because it's Illinois, otherwise known as Mafia: The State. When you look up government corruption, the picture is the Illinois state seal.

Comments on any video related to SA on jewtube are fucking brutal right now lol.

>>33837436
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/robert-farago/proof-springfield-armory-rock-river-knew-licensing-carve-last-year/

>>33837520
So you're boycotting them not ironically. I think you mean unilaterally or unequivocally, learn what a word means before you keep using it.

>>33855890
this is dumb. this is why 70% of people in this thread are dumb.
SA and whoever the other guy are, they're not traitors. they did not turn against american gun rights, they just dropped. they didnt take the baton and run backwards, they just left it where they stood.
so theyre not the reason, theyre not the cause of shitty gun laws in illinois, they just sure as hell didnt help it.
the problem isnt SA, it isnt the other guy, its the people igniting the legislation to start with. Naturally, SA should of course stand hard against it, but it does not make them criminal when they fail to. feel free to boycott of course, but they arent truely the enemy. they just did not help


>inb4 SA/otherguy shill because thats the only way /k/ can argue

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I was just about to buy two springfield 1911s when this came out. I have been thinking about buying a TRP for a long time now. I don't know what to do anymore anons.

>>33858490
just buy it if you like it/them.
to limit your enjoyment because of assmadery, it doesnt make sense. now if you think you'll look at it every day and thing "this is the child of the devil" then no i wouldnt get it. but it'd be dumb to work for chevy, and not get a ford if you think it looks nice. to limit yourself for no reason, its stupid.

TLDR if you want it buy it

>>33837721
Get a BM49 instead, its what the M1A/M14 could have been.