Springfield armory and Rock river failed us

>>33819449
What's going on? It looks like tgey just refused to have any imput.

>>33819449
reminder that the bill will cut down the crime
pol fuck off

>>33819897
>>33819948
B8?

>>33819449
Still regretting buying an M1A. I had no idea they'd pull some shit like this.

>>33819972
>M1A
There was never any hope, you might as well put on a helmet and start eating crayons

>>33819449
Your forgot to mention that it limits people UNLESS the firearm is made by Springfield Armory or Rock River. Basically sold the people out so they could have the upper hand.

>>33819897
>>33819948
yeah, no. fuck off .

your daily reminder that there is no evidence that gun control has any affect on overall violent crime rate and that criminals dont buy guns legally anyway.

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>>33820981
>implying eating crayons is exclusively for tards

They taste and feel like salt water taffy

>>33821017
Proofs

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>>33821017
You fucking kidding right?

>>33821032
>>33821033
In the first form it did not have that. The one working its way up for approval in the state does. I cant blame you guys asking for source cause such a thing would be insane but there it is.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/

http://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=10000SB1657sam001&GA=100&SessionId=91&DocTypeId=SB&LegID=104404&DocNum=1657&GAID=14&Session=

>>33821033
Nah they fucked over Illinois the same way Beretta fucked over Italian gun owners.

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RR is innocent in this, they had no idea.

However, SA tried to go through backchannels at the NRA convention, attempting to get the NRA media credentials of everyone who wrote an article about their bullshit revoked.

We'll see what this actually does to the companies since they're manufacturers. Cheaper than dirt is still in business after price gouging in 2012-13.

>>33821057
Rock River also paid $50,000 to the IFMA for this retard bullshit.

>>33821071
They gave their lobby group 50 grand having no idea they'd stab everyone in the back.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1988839_Springfield-and-RRA-make-a-deal-with-gun-banners-in-IL-.html&page=9

>>33821067
price gouging =/= fucking over peoples rights for profit

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/john-boch/springfield-rock-river-illinois-sell-picking-pieces/

Relevant article.

>>33821057
how did rock river prove their innocence to the internet?

>>33821106
At the NRA meeting, multiple writers asked RRA for comment, and their response was more or less: "WAIT, WHAT THE FUCK DID OUR LOBBY DO? WHAT THE FUCKING ACTUAL FUCK!?"

Meanwhile, Springfield didn't even attempt damage control, blamed their consumers in general and the gun crowd at large, and then tried to use backroom politics to discredit everyone talking about this incident with clout they don't actually have.

>>33821048
I am not saying this is any better, but it doesn't exempt individuals from transferring more Springfields and RRA you literal nigger

It exempts manufacturers (I.E. Springfield/RRA) from the licensing requirement

>>33821106
From what I can gather they acted as amazed as everyone else over what happened.
To me it seems like they're trying to throw Springfield under the bus while also reaping the benefits of the bill.
Who knows? Perhaps BOTH are innocent and this is a case of a lobbyist (this lobby "group" is basically one guy as I understand it) doing his own thing and trying to "get the best deal" for his clients.

I won't be buying from either. Rock River stuff always seemed budget and not well made to me. The only interesting thing I ever saw in their product lineup was their .458 socom rifles and even then they didn't look good just interesting.
I had been contemplating buying a new Springfield 1911 until the day this story broke.
Bought an HK instead.

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>>33821057
RETARD

NO ONE BELIEVE RRA or you you fucking shill

Read the TTAG second article, this cunt lobbyist was planning this for a month or more and RRA had to know about it.


STOP EXCUSING RRA THEY ARE JUST AS GUILTY AS SA

>>33821133
The second article said they seemed to not have a clue about it. Not that I give two fucks, never planned on buying from RRA or Springfield.

Draw whatever conclusions you want, I'm just here to report the facts as they are.

Even if they are surprised and truly had no idea, it makes them irresponsible as all fuck.

>>33821116
Oh that makes it so much better. Let's screw over customers and the legal gun stores as well so we can make a profit.

So does the bill mean that a small gun store that's not exempt can literally only sell 9 guns a year?

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>>33821137
It's bullshit there is no way they had no clue. Read what the article said about the lobbyist planning this for months.

RRA is playing dumb it's pathetic, and trying to throw SA under the bus after SA and RRA threw gun owners under the bus.

It's nothing new RRA supported NYC safe act police with sales too. They are scum fucks through and through.

Neither company should receive a cent of anyones money from now on. I wanted the XDe so bad but now there is no way I will buy one.

>>33821150
I thought it meant you can only buy 9 a year

>>33821057
>>33821155
>>33821133

Unless the RRA comes out and fully tries to kill the bill they are just as guilty. You can ride this out as a retailer in IL. They will sink or swim depending on how much they act.

>>33821155
>wanted the XDE bad

Do you mind if I ask why? What does it do that any other single stack 9mm can't do for you?

>>33821155
> This guy is right
> Harmon stated the agreement was made last month, RRA and SA both threw everyone under the bus
> RRA is now trying to play stupid like they didn't know. The people on the floor may have not know what their company was doing, but the CEO and shareholders clearly knew what they were doing.

>>33821162
The damage is done. Doesn't matter if they try to kill the bill now they already got their exemption and it's going to the house.

>>33821166
DA/SA

>>33819897
go and stay go

What can we do to really fuck them over?

I want something big like bankruptcy or a lawsuit.

>>33821183
Just get a P239. It's only four ounces heavier.

>>33821209
Boycott and by that I mean TRULY boycott them and not forget about it in 4 months when you can get a TRP for several hundred dollars less than what they're selling for now.

>>33821221
Really? That's surprising. Need to look up the size comparison.

It is heavy though.

Part of me thinks I need to just get the shield while the rebate is going on and get over my uncomfortableness of full cocked strikers.

>>33821183
It doesn't look like the Bill is going to make it all the way.

Reading the Forums, "supposedly" there was another lobbyist, not the RRA and SA one, that accidently hit "neutral" instead of opposed so the Bill should get overturned.

> I'm not convinced he's being honest. But lets see what happens.

>>33821242
Yeah I saw that other guy as well. But he has an opposed and neutral listed so I am unsure if that had any effect.

>>33821242
Also to my understanding after it goes through there's no turning back. It IS going to the house.

I think their best hope is the governor vetoing it.

>>33819449

I have an XD .40 made in croatia.

It's probably the most reliable gun i ever shot.

what do you think k?

>>33821228

Yeah but the fudds at the range still eat their asses because they think it's THAT Springfield from us history.

I want results.

>>33821260
Fudds still suck Colt's dick too but that doesn't mean Colt isn't in a bad place because of other manufacturers taking up their slack.

Springfield has plenty of competition in the striker fired market, Dan Wessons are competitive with their higher end 1911s, Colts for the mid tier, and stuff like Rugers for the bargain priced.
The Saint is a flop.

The market will do its job I promise you.

>>33821290
Hey I like Colt. They didn't sell us out to antis, they're just not managed well and are over priced.

>>33821351
>t. RRA/SA representative
Go eat a buffet of dicks you fudd fuck.

>b-but it doesn't affect me, why should I care?

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>>33821351
>t. an actual shill

they deserve to go bankrupt over this, and youre talking to a guy who would still buy from CTD

Jesus god, I'm glad they make shit guns.

If Arsenal, H&K or Sig or Glock do this, I don't know what to think.

>>33821351
Furthermore, their "interests" have jack shit to do with this.
That bill was dead until they caved.
For what?
Some lobby money?
Promise of some exclusive government contract?

Mighty price to pay for selling firearm owners up the "rock river", as they will likely be gone in less than 2 years.

>>33821351
This is well constructed bait.

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>>33821425
>
Thank. The trick is to mix legitimate arguments with ones that trigger.

>>33819897
>>33819948
As soon as /k/ started to accept the

>I'm liberal and I love guns!

People I knew you fucking faggots were coming

>>33819897
>criminals buy their guns legally

Really activates the almonds, doesn't it, you baiting faggot?

>>33821115
yeah, nah, they're lying cunts.

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>>33819948
>within reasonable limits
>reasonable limits

>>33819449
Reminder that based Beretta had the stones to pull out of Maryland after O'Fucktard's unconstitutional gungrabbing passed.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-beretta-moving-20140722-story,amp.html

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>>33819897
>criminals
>FFL transfers

>>33819897
Git /out/

>>33821092
They cancelled people's orders, took everything off their website because Democrats told them too and then put everything back on for 10x the price. $110 used AR mags, $1 per round 5.56 and so on

>>33821518
This. I have buddies of all sorts of political beliefs, never met anyone who self identifies as liberal that doesn't have some issue with gun ownership. It's always "I support the right to own guns...but" it's always a fucking but with them. They are ok with your freedoms as long as they are with in their acceptable parameters. Some of their parameters are more reasonable than others, but all of them are fuck faces when it comes to guns.

>>33821290
>dan wessons being competitive

No knockoff pistols will be good, sorry.

>>33819897
SHALL

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>>33821637
Pretty much, whenever people say "I'm fine with guns but support reasonable laws"

You just ask them what they think is reasonable and then let them know that they're fucking retarded if they think shitlibs will stop there. I just saw an article a few weeks back that a couple of gats were confiscated in TAS Australia because they "looked dangerous"

Specific guns, not "X make and model", they went to the houses of those people and took them. So fuck this "reasonable" bullshit, it's a smokescreen.

>>33821849
NOT

>>33821959
INFRINGE

>>33819897
>Cuck County

>>33821133
RRA is trying to play both sides. This shit went down in MARCH so either they are willing accomplices or they are incompetent fools. Either way they don't deserve my business after their part in this shit show.

>>33821150
It means if you transfer (buy or sell) more than 9 guns a year you have to go through all this bullshit liberal big government bullshit that will basically run you out of business due to time/cost. But not if you're AR or RRA or their big box buddies...they negotiated a carve out to save themselves at the expense of fucking everyone else.

>>33822001
>fuck meant to type SA instead of AR...

>>33821806
>Dan Wesson
>Not good
Bruh, Dan Wessons are some if the nicest 1911's available, short of a full custom.

>>33821017
no no no no
that's not what it is at all

the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (which is funded only by RRA and SA) got a carve out so that manufacturers would be exempt from the additional licensing requirements

in exchange, the IFMA (and RRA and SA by extension) dropped opposition to the bill

also, the bill does not limit purchases, it only limits sales by private individuals

>>33821071
>>33821084
they gave the lobby group $50k like three years ago and then failed to keep tabs on the lobbyist

buzz from people who have spoke to the RRA guys at the NRA show is that they didn't know about the deal the IFMA cut
that said, they also failed to do their due diligence in monitoring lobbyists that they funded

>>33819897
On the rare chance you aren't trolling, by what metric, boyo?

>>33821031
hoo rah muhreen, spank you 4 your cervix

>>33819449
>GRIP ZONED

>>33819449
I can't believe I ever considered an M1A from Springfield.

Fuckers. I'm getting a Bm-59 instead

>>33821242
>>33821250

that guy wasnt a lobbyist, he was the owner of a shop/training place that appears to be a member of IMFA.

>>33821351
Why did you include NH, are you retarded?

>>33823277
even without all this bs, i would have suggested that anyway. bm59 is neato, plus you dont get all the m14 hate.

>>33821373

>They didn't sell us out to antis

>>33821518
Fuck off you tribalist dickhead. You're conflating different people. You're no better than the Progressives, and you're actively hurting our cause by trying to turn gun rights into muh sekret conservative club.

>>33821637
Your personal annecdote does not represent everyone.

You're also conflating liberals and progressives. I've never seen a progressive be anything but anti-gun (because they're neomarxists and opposed to personal responsibility on principle) but there's plenty of pro gun liberals. You just don't hear about them because the fuckers in the msm and the Democrat party don't want them getting coverage, and the conservatives don't either because they want to turn us into a captive voter base that has no choice but to vote for the GOP.

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>>33819449
>ywn have an AK or makarov that is blessed by an orthodox priest
Why live?

>>33823584
Who was the last Democrat to sign a piece of pro-gun legislation?

Who was the last Democrat to veto a gun control bill?

Who was the last Democrat to propose a pro gun bill that made it onto the floor of their respective legislature?

Extra points if you find one in this century...

>>33823633
I'm not talking about the Democrat party, dumbass. The Democrats aren't liberal, they're an unholy alliance of progressives and neocons.

>>33823946
So who do you vote for you idiot?

>>33821351
you should just go fuck yourself you shitter
anyone who pushes for further behind the scenes limitations is a rat and needs to have their spine snapped.

>>33823982
>doesn't understand basic political science
>calls me an idiot

Ideally I'd vote Libertarian, since they're the closest thing to a truly liberal party. But they're a shitshow and have no chance of winning. I vote primarily in local and state elections, and party doesn't really matter, I vote for whoever is least bad.

There's little point in me voting at the national level. My state is gerrymandered to ensure that the big metro area is heavily overrepresented, and the votes of us rural residents basically don't matter because the cityfags will vote for the Democrat every time.

>>33824123
yeah, Illinois sucks

>>33824244
Still the midwest, but not quite. Fortunately my state isn't that bad. We have very committed local gun organizations and the rural population votes heavily in the state elections. Probably the worst gun laws we have are the stupid permit to purchase for pistols (which is annoying but at least it's shall issue and very easy to get) and a ban on SBS and MGs (which doesn't really affect me because I'm not a trustfund brat).

>>33823633
>Who was the last Democrat to sign a piece of pro-gun legislation?
Mark "Day-Drunk" Dayton, governor of Minnesota. Signed a bill to re-legalize suppressors in the state and allow their use in hunting.

Generally he's a piece of shit and I plan to vote against him in the next election, but to his credit he *did* sign that bill.

>>33819897
Sorta like how Chicago is crime free with their restrictions?

fuck outta here