Vietnam Thread

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>>33808074

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>>33808098

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>>33808107

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>>33808117

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>>33808152

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>>33808162

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>>33808175
>tfw the demoshits broke their promises

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>>33808074

>>33808074
guess who won dipshit

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I've seen this posted before with a comment saying it's a ghetto-rigged AK mag stuck into an M-16, but I know there were 30 round M-16 mags in small numbers in Vietnam so I don't know what I'm looking at here.

>>33808784
you could probably fit 25-30 5.56x45 into an ak mag because the cartridge is about the same diameter as 7.62x39, but you can only fit like 5 7.62x39s in an AR mag because of the steeper taper

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Remembering Best Vietnam on my plinking bag.

>>33808861
Where'd you get that? From a /k/omrade? Or did you put velcro backing on an ebay one?

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Vietnam was the most A E S T H E T I C conflict

>>33808074
>yearly reminder the US lost in vietnam

ftfy

>>33809153
Yeah, sewed Velcro onto an eBay patch.

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>>33809206
>implying the US lost Vietnam
>implying we didn't just pull out and smoke a cigarette while the Aussies finished the job
The McDonald's in Ho Chi Minh city would like to disagree.

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>>33809250
also Starbucks

>>33809250
>implying

flat out saying the US lost means it was not implied, it was explicitly stated

honest question: do you actually think saying stupid and incorrect bullshit is funny, like it was in grade school

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Marvin the ARVN

ARVN Ranger holding VC

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>>33808074
Reminder that the whole war could have been avoided and Vietnam could have been a democracy if they just backed Vietnam from the beginning instead of the French.

>>33808074
>defending a pointless, tragic conflict that should never have happened because the jews have conditioned you to hate socialism
Nice misguided cucking, Amerifat

>>33809365
>the jews have conditioned you to hate the ideology they invented

really makes you think

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>>33809350

True, man did we really shit the bed on that one...

>>33808074
>Vietnam
>Commies that deserved anhilation
Nah, because...

>Vietnamese be colony of the French
>try to fight for freedom from foreigner oppressor
>Japanese kick them out, so fight them instead since they're basically the same
>make best buds with US soldiers who are fighting the Japs too
>want to keep up friendship but instead get handed back to French assholes 'cus US would rather buddy with them than support freedom
>go back to fighting to kick out French, try to find some help cause this shit is getting old
>only commies are offering
>take it, cause fuck foreign invaders
>finally kick them out after decades of struggle, yay!
>US has a problem with this and says we gotta split the country in half
>puts crony dictator in charge of the South, he oppresses anyone who isn't Catholic
>people wonder why they go back to fighting
It's sad that the US basically did everything possible to stop what was the closest thing to a 2nd American Revolution that the world has ever seen.

>>33808074

AMERIKEKS BTFO

Anyway, sn`t it time for Tyrone to fuck your wife while you jerk of your tiny dick?

>>33809250

>The McDonald's in Ho Chi Minh city would like to disagree

So basically you are saying you got fucked in the butt so you could set up mcdonalds in Vietnam? Wew lad...

>>33809515
he's saying we won the battle for cultural influence
what's more their communism has been subverted by our capitalism, and not through war but through trade-- the most capitalist way to affect policy

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>>33809403
>>33809399
>>33809350
The whole "Ho Chi Minh wasn't a commie at first!" thing is kind of a myth. He was a commie since at least 1919 when he studied in France. In 1930, the Communist International group sent him to Hong Kong to coordinate the unification of the Vietnamese Communist parties. In truth, he was a commie from the beginning, and the myth that he was more "patriot than communist" is rooted in how he implored President Wilson to consider Vietnam's liberation from France after the First World War, when the Versailles treaty preached things like national self determination. Of course, Vietnam being a relatively small backwater colony of an ally made it easy to ignore in such a conversation between world powers.
But you can see signs of his ideologue behavior when you look at his activities after WWII.The partisan wars that happened during and immediately after WWII had a lot of Vietnamese militia groups that were both pro and anti communist. Ho Chi Minh's communists managed to wipe out the anti-communist groups and absorb the other militias. Of course, this period had very scarce records so through the veil of history, so these groups all get the name "Viet Minh" slapped on them. Similar to how the Taliban was one of many rebel groups that cropped up during Afghanistan, but we look back and call them all Mujahideen. Not to mention his policies after the formation of North Vietnam that persecuted landowners, even of small plots. People with larger areas of land, some of it that stretched back hundreds of years in their families with ancestral graves and everything had a bullet put in their head. My grandpa's family had a small farm with only 2 water buffalo, and the local Communists decided it was now state property, which is why Grandpa got the fuck out of North Vietnam and joined the South Vietnamese army when the war started. He didn't want to see that happen in his new home.

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>>33809575
>grandpa
My dad was in the war. Are you like second generation or did my parents just have kids late?

>>33809506
>tiny dick
rich coming from a slant-eyed

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reminder that big strong americans lost to a bunch of commie rice farmers with rakes

then they got spat on when they came back home for being such fucking pussies lmao

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>>33808074
better dead than red

>30/4
>immedietaly south dogs threads
Eternal butthurt

>>33809250
So you just called off the war for three decades?

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>>33809882

>>33809575
United Statians do their best to deny history to suit their autism.

is ARVN pronounced "ARGH-VIN" or people just spelled out the letters?

>>33809990
why do you assume it's bait? why would i have any sympathy for a bunch of fucking retards who fought for absolutely nothing and literally lost to a bunch of commie rice farmers?

>>33810001
>he doesn't say "Lục quân Việt Nam Cộng hòa"
pleb

>>33809250
>Invades Vietnam
>Gets their ass kicked by malnutrioned farmers armed with both real and knockoff soviet weaponry
>They also have cancer that they got from agent orange
>Morale is nonexistent
>backs out after extreme backlash from american citizens
>Vietnam becomes commie nation again

>"HURR DURR WE WUN DA VIETNAM WAR!!!!!!"

>>33810081
cuz i aint no gook soldier

>>33809792
I mean I'm 25, my dad was 21 when I was born in 93 and my grandpa was born in 45. I do know a few people around my age with fathers who fought in Vietnam though.

>>33811511

>Ass kicked by farmers

>Killed over a million of them

Pick one.

>>33813276
>>33813276
Race traior like you should be killed. Just because your grandfather was VNCH, he sure killed many Vietnamese in the war. The North also are the same as in war, no one were innocent.

But at least they won and you grandfather was a loser. HCM was definitely a nationalist first and foremost, communist or capitalism is just a form, a ideology of how to goverment. Both have same shit in it, nothing set as stone when it comes to leading a country.

>>33813422
Lol fuck off commie. Step to me here in Phoenix and enjoy getting zipped with 5.56

>>33808162

what's the significance of his tattoo of "the police"

>>33813469
Can sat is police, sat Cong means kill commies.

>>33813399
>dropped bomb to whatever you like
>civilians died because shit intel
>lol, they're gook anyways. just filled it as vietcong. who care?

Heart and mind, right? Real deal is, you stupid Americans keep bragging about k/d ratio but failed to include in your allies loss. South Vietnam, South Korean, Australian,... Many of those die in Vietnam War but yeah, let's just post dead of Americans troops and North Vietnam only because muh k/d ratio.

>>33813463
Lol, Asian-American cunt. How about you come here and I will gladly demo how you grandfather got kick in the butt.

>>33813399
This is the stupidest argument I've seen
War is not Team Deathmatch
America's objective during the War was to prevent the spread of communism in Vietnam and they failed because the communists took over the entire country
Battles won are meaningless if you lose the bigger strategic objective

>>33809291
Different anon here. You're over simplifying a complex issue. Using your criteria, you could say that France (and Vietnam, for that matter) lost WW2 due to being occupied by Axis invaders.

The US accomplished what they set out to do in Vietnam, propping up a corrupt regime. As soon as we pulled out, the regime fell. By that standard, we didn't win. But, nobody occupied our homeland or dictated terms to us. By that standard, we didn't lose.

I think we could best consider Vietnam to be an expensive mistake.

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>>33810001

"R-vin"

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>>33808784
Is it just me or does that barrel looks a bit thicker than a pencil profile? Anyways, what they probably did was cut an AR mag amd am AK mag, and spot weld it to the AK mag. I know back in the Pre AWB era, USA Mags would do that with 10 round AR magazines

>>33809575
Fucking amen, tell these marxist revisionists to go fuck themselves

>>33810002
Because the Viet Cong weren't the only ones fighting, as a matter of fact, the NVA was an organized force supplied by the latest ewuipment the Chinese and the Soviets had to offer. If anything, the North showed the efficiancy of using a combination of organized and guerrilla forces.

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Daily reminder we traded south Vietnam to the Soviet/Chinese block in order to keep the Israeli state.

Keep israel pro-USA or else Vietnam was lost in vain

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TL:DR

A traditional force will not beat a guerrilla one even with the might of the entire US Military.

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Too bad about South Vietnam. Seems like they could have been our future Gurkha force.

See British Empire.

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Some more propaganda.

South vietnamese people living in America are some of the most pro US minorities. I guess that's what happens when you lose your country.

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Keeping this weapon related...

Understand that Thompsons were being fielded against AK47s. Not totally equitable.

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And ultimately, the war was lost at home.

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We won in Vietnam. No, I don't mean that cop out that we won every major battle even if we lost the war. I mean we won in Vietnam. No, not in the strategic sense that we got a treaty signed in our favor. They quickly rendered that moot, to the surprise of no one.

I mean go to Ho Chi Minh City, and look around, and know with confidence that America won in Vietnam.

God bless America.
God bless Vietnam.
God bless the divine, irresistible force of capitalism.

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These American citizens are proud to be Americans.

But if you talk to the older folk they'll tell you warm stories of their motherland. In the end, most of them are better than they would have ever been living in the US than S. Vietnam, but like everyone who leaves their place of birth, will have fond memories of it.

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I'm going to guess this is a reenactment due to the high quality picture.

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All these ARVNs were literal manlets.

What do you think South Vietnam's army would look like today

Would it be Thailand-tier or South Korea-tier?

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Talking to my relatives, the Tet Offensive was considered a victory to many south vietnamese. The idea was that the VC and NVA went toe to toe with the US and RVN and lost.

Obviously it was described as a debacle to the American public since they were told the back of the enemy was broken and thus "how can they attack with a broken back?".

>>33814148
>The US accomplished what they set out to do in Vietnam, propping up a corrupt regime

Their stated goal was to bend Hanoi to their will and prop up the SV regime in perpetuity (as per the domino theory). They failed on both counts.

>nobody occupied our homeland or dictated terms to us

By that argument, France did not lose in Vietnam, because France was not occupied and their withdrawal was not unconditional.

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>>33816076
If North Vietnam collapsed, probably Thailand tier.

If they stayed intact, there would be constant threat of war and likely a more aggressive South Vietnam would be around.

Also, America would have a large area to train their Jungle Expert tab seekers.

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10 year old whose parents were killed by the VC joined up.

Interesting propaganda piece but makes you proud nonetheless.

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It ain't me

>>33816122
>
Also, America would have a large area to train their Jungle Expert tab seekers.
Why not just use the phili- oh, wait.

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If only they knew that China would become quasi capitalist and the USSR would break up within their lifetime.

I don't think current Vietnam even trades with N. Korea...

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Why don't people just accept you can lose a war at home?

It's not like Soviet Afghan war has this problem...

>>33808074
>Yearly reminder that Communism is a cancer that should be eradicated
Then why aren't you organizing a resistance to antifa like a good patriotic American. They are the new face of communist revolution and they are very well funded and organized.

>>33816587
>They are the new face of communist revolution and they are very well funded and organized

t. antifa marketing department

>>33816614
>t. antifa marketing department
I have always wondered how many of those tens of millions the communists slaughtered in the last 120 years laughed when one of their friends or neighbors talked about the growing violence what ever specific group of "useful idiots" were getting the revolution going.
How can so many of us be so blind to whats going on. Antifa and the rest of these leftist socialist movements have only one goal.. to turn the USA red.

>>33814148
Different anon here. I think that the French did lose WW 2. They were beaten and occupied and would have stayed that way if the other allies didn't liberate them. Sure many Frenchmen fought on...but France lost.

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>>33816587
>>33816614
>>33816806
Any anon who is seriously interested in such stuff, go to Amazon and grab a copy of Rex Applegate's 'Kill Or Get Killed.' The first half is a distilled version of the training program we put our guys through in WW2, and is worth the money for that. No sheepdog tacticool BS -- just how to train your body to react under fire.

The second half was written in the Fifties and details the rise of the 'ideologically inspired' mob, which at that point was a new and worrying development in both Americas. Read it and you will be staggered at the descriptions of the financing, the organization, the agitprop, the aim of seizing control of public spaces and marginalizing the police, of terrorizing anyone who objects and manipulating events to generate martyrs for the cause. Of constantly escalating the level of violence, of the view towards destabilizing civic life, of capitalizing on any overreaction by the authorities, and of the constant importance of ideological indoctrination. Read it. It's all there. You'll recognize it instantly.

OWS, BLM, Antifa, etc. may not be trained or financed by the KGB any more. But they are trained and led and financed by the people who were.

>>33815932
so were Garands

>>33815976
No, you didn't win but not because you didn't win every battle you were fought, but because the politicians wouldn't let you truly win. The betrayal was at home.

>>33817030
They used to talk about this book all the time in SOF in the 80s

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>>33808074
>Yearly reminder that Communism is a cancer that should be eradicated
wew lad, long live the adherents of the Red Banner.

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Alright bois

Dumpin' muh folder

>>33817030
How the fuck do we get main stream America to wake up?

For instance, violent leftists were free to cause as much violence and bloodshed as they were able but the week after conservative America said fuck this noise and started fighting back the same way the Berkely PD suddenly is concerned about weapons and shit. The very day we started wearing masks they start banning them..the very fucking day. While they burned up a piece of the campus over the faggot milo over a hundred riot cops from Berkely PD and surrounding communities sat in a fucking basement drinking fucking for hours coffee...WTF.

As far as funding these commies,, George Soros freely admits he spent 33 million fucking dollars to keep the ferguson riots going...admits it and the DOJ does NOTHING. We need to wake people up.

>>33813558
I don't think you can withstand another American "loss" though.

Trading only 50k americans to millions of dead gooks is not a bad trade. Especially since now we have FAR more firepower and precision weaponry that would ass rape Vietnam far harder.

>>33817105
That's interesting.

>>33817189
I don't think there *is* a mainstream America any more. Even people I've known since high school and played D&D with and babysat for and stood as godfather for their son are okay with gun control and with the government having the smashmouth power to come in my house and seize my evul gunz.

Homeschool your children. Remain active locally if you're in a healthy community. Go to town hall meetings; go to church once in awhile. And keep buying ammo.

>>33815866
The Montagnards were the "Gurkhas" of Vietnam and they were treated like shit by the South and North they did amazing things with our special forces in the MACV-SOG program should have been evacuating them instead of the South Vietnamese we did amazing fighters the Montagnards

>>33817549
Understand that Gurkha meant sustainable colonial type troops.

Those mountain people barely had a society let alone a population large enough for impressment.

>>33809312
What backpack is that and where can I get one. It looks like it might be a medic bag but I didn't think it had side pockets

>>33817079
I'm aware of the particulars. I was taking a long view.

>>33817079
>muh fifth column

40 years of hindsight and this retardation still exists. goddamn.

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>>33816587
>>33816614
>>33816806
>>33817189
>>33817249
BUMP.
We should be talking about this

>>33809250
This is pretty stupid argument. There is Mcdonald's in Moscow too, you know?

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REMOVE COMMIES

>>33809403
>Shortly after war, begin invading nearby Communist countries
>Send in their troopers to fuck up the Khmer Rouge and fuck Pol Pot up
>Pile drive the Chinese into the ground
>Buddy up with US shortly afterwards

>>33809882
In our defense the commies were wearing black pajamas, gotta respect the pajama

>>33815944
Nah, people at home finally realized that the war was already lost

>>33824190
Why do people constantly parade this picture around like it was a major war crime? That dude was an absolute piece of shit and deserved it.

>>33821539
Yeah, we won the cold war too.

>>33816226
I had a shop of this pic where they put CIA standing in the background but I can't find it.

>>33824190
>>33824331
Bay Lop was francs-tireur, his summary execution was justified

>>33809575
>this fucking thread.

Remember that Ho Chi Minh spent a lot of time in France and at this time pro-communist sentiment was growing all over. Ho was primarily concerned with having a similar model of government like that in Canada, he reached out to the French and American governments and they both told him to get fucked. What else to do but go with the only people who will back you financially. The Ngo led "South Vietnamese" government was despised by pretty much all Vietnamese, and Ngo was a crooked fuck who couldn't even be a proper puppet for the US. Further, Vietnam never had "true" communsim and by the mid 80s was a sort of mixed model socialist government. They are pretty much open to free trade and are full bore socialist at this point, and will probably be a capitalist republic within our lifetime.

>tl;dr: Burgerclap jew led war didn't do shit but kill fuck tons of us and them and all for nothing. Bac Ho was based anyway.

>-t.white guy who lived in Vietnam for 3 years

>>33815999
Motherfucker hardly. You obviously haven't had much real interaction with Viet Kieu besides going to the local Pho reataruant. They are the worst. Their kids lap up true Marxist indoctrination way quicker than their "red" family back home, and they milk the fuck out of our system, having 5 doctors in a house with 10 Lexus cars out front, all the while dodging taxes and collecting welfare at the same time. They are fucking leech tier, and have the most blue pilled skewed version of history ever. All of the boat people were shit tier traitors and sons and daughters of whores.

>>33824989
He had Communist leanings ever since the early 1900s, hell he helped found the French Communist Party. He thought very, very highly of Lenin's work and thought that the 3rd world should adopt it.
>never had "socialism"
Well Le Duan and the rest of his old fuckbuddies damn well tried to make it that way, and failed horribly.
>Full bore socialist
How? With Doi Moi they essentially went Red Capitalist
>lived in Vietnam for 3 years
Why?

>>33813463
Phoenix here. You're obviously the fucking statist boot licking faggot Jew. You're gonna "shoot some commies" with your shit-tier ayye argh? Gtfo of my state, kike. You're Antifa-tier faggotry isn't wanted here.

>>33826314
I can't hold this shit against him, as I pointed out earlier, communism ideology was rampant, even in the US. They did pretty good in not letting their shit become China-tier, thus the Doi Moi in 85 or 86. Russia was pretty much their only ally for years, it would be retarded to at least not try their best to show their faith to the system. I lived there after I visited for my friend's wedding, I was his best man. I came back to the states to save until I can go back for good

>>33826468
>not letting their shit become China-tier
They very nearly did in the 70's and early 80's, though it was around that time that Le Duan and the other old fucks finally realized they were running the country into the ground.
>communsim was rampant in the US
Fucking when?
>Show their faith to the system
A system that is inherently doomed to failure? Also you didn't address my earlier question about how they could be full-bore socialist now when their reforms introduced elements of capitalism to the system.
>Go back for good
How can it be that good that you'd willingly rescind your right to arms?

>>33824261
wtf?

>>33819975
Facts remain facts regardless of time passing.

>>33826544
>fucking when
By the mid 50s communism had become such a threat that us government officials were convinced (and they were right) that Communists were among their ranks in government (remember Mccarthy)? It hadn't "failed" yet in the 20 and 30s and underground communist newsletters were all over Europe and in some major cities in the US.

>inherently doomed to failure
You are smart enough to understand politics, Vietnam was fucked after the war and fuck tons of trade embargos were put on it. How can you tell Russia "aight thanks for the help bros, but we got this now" when the ((US)) told the world that nobody is to engage in commerce less they want serious problems?

>willingly rescind your right to arms
Anon, I hope you honestly understand our "right" to arms is a fucking joke and will likely be gone by the time we're 40-50. All gun legislation since the 30s has destroyed the 2nd amendment. It's not much a right anymore, more like a privelidge like driving. Until gun legislation is abolished, I have no faith in it's future here. That being said, unlike here in the US where I feel I need to carry, I'd feel better carrying in Vietnam but don't feel it's as necessary as here. It's pretty much 99% homogeneous there, and there isn't nearly as much violence there day-to-day as here (no blacks and Mexicans, imagine that!).

>>33811511
the north invaded the south actually, the u.s went in to defend the latter.

>>33826468
>sticks up for commies
>calling anyone else an antifa kike
babbys first attempt at subversion or legit retard?

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>>33824331
>>33824439
>>33824190

>mfw the gunman in that photo was the South Vietnamese Saigon chief of police
>mfw he came to America, tried to start a small business (pizza restaurant IIRC) and some dirty fucking hippies graffiti'd his restaurant with phrases that said things like "we know who you are, you piece of shit"

>>33821539
And the Soviet Union no longer exists.

>>33826468
>wanting to shoot commies
>antifa-faggotry

wot

>>33826858
I'm not sticking up for commies you fucking dense faggot, the point is that any fucking monkey knows that Vietnam wasn't a threat to the US's safety communist or not. Declassified documents revealed decades ago that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was 100% a false flag, and that most Vietnamese hated the corrupt Ngo led government. Every country deserves their sovereignty, and there is literally no difference between us running off the British and them running off the French and US. Meanwhile, I'll add, one of the biggest communist attrocites was caused directly because of US's involvement (Pol Pot) and it took the fucking Vietnamese to be rid of true deadly communism.

The fact that you're on the internet threatening someone with deadly force who poses you no harm makes you no different than the faggots who want to "punch Nazis" and you need to have someone show you how much of a cock sucker you are irl.

>>33826994
you just responded to some guy talking about shooting commies by hurling a bunch of dumbass insults that aren't even tailored to the situation.

> fucking monkey knows that Vietnam wasn't a threat to the US's safety communist or not
communism and the ussr was, and they were doing the same shit in other parts of the world that the west was. fortunately it was all for naught.
being another communist puppet state with some dude who spent much of his life dicking around in europe preaching lefty shit at the helm isn't "sovereignty" and the fact that you're trying to compare what amounted to a proxy war between world powers and the fucking american revolution is hilarious and proof that communist myths are still alive and well.

>>33827117
Could you imagine being the poor guy that has to carry an M1 into Vietnam?

>>33827135
The anon said
>step to me here in PHX and get zapped with 5.56

How is this not a faggot tier threat only an autistic no-guns would make?


>>33827135
Your good-goy education is showing. You do understand that by the time the Vietnam war was underway that the US had effectively had been over thrown and a coup had taken place in our government? The Soviet model was doomed to fail by ((them)) and they knew it, and the US and was to be the new host and by then it was basically complete. Mccarthy was right in trying to route out the Communists from within, not fighting ((their)) wars to try to do so.

>Another communist puppet state
Right, and that's why since 1975 Vietnam was a huge fucking threat to our security right? Face it, your grandpappy got his fucking legs blown off for nothing, goy. The communism you should have been fighting had resided in your education system and federal government, and that's why you're seeing the shit you see today, meanwhile Vietnam isn't being overrun with refugees and degeneracy. Like I said, I fucking hate communism, but I don't give two fucks about what some other country does, I care about communism in OUR country. And killing gooks or antifa shouldn't be your goal, but hanging politicians, bankers and other ((globalists)) from light poles and dropping them out of helicopters will ensure you won't get sent off to get your ass blown off like your grandpappy did.

>>33827390
>Right, and that's why since 1975 Vietnam was a huge fucking threat to our security right?
it was not only about vietnam, it was about containing the communist influence throughout the world and preventing them from getting a leg up over the u.s. that's basically what the american strategy of containment was all about.
the cold war was marked by these little proxy conflicts wherein the east and west threw their weight around throughout the world in an attempt to expand their influence and outwit their opponent. the communist infiltration in america was simply another facet of ussr/kgb subversion and should've been dealt with much more effectively. it's funny, because there was a time when the west could've prevented this all together yet lacked the will.

btw calling other people goys doesn't really work for your argument especially since vietnam is unanimously viewed in a negative light by the establishment.

>>33827390
>How is this not a faggot tier threat only an autistic no-guns would make?
you guys have no idea how much you're truly hated do you?

>>33826822
>mid 50s and McCarthyism
Fair enough
>right to arms is a fucking joke
We've made a lot of progress in the last 10 years, despite setbacks in certain states. As long as people continue to buy guns and encourage others to do so, we have a support base that we can use to fight legislation. I don't give a fuck how idealistic it sounds but I don't see a point in throwing in the towel now. I can agree with your point about less of a need to carry, but at the same time a lot of American citizens don't necessarily buy all their guns purely for CC. Plinking, skeet, and matches are also rather enjoyable.
>>33826994
There's a bit of a catch with that though. While only Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam fell to Communism it sparked serious communist revolts in neighboring countries, some of which were barely put down. You have to remember that the eventual worldwide goal of communism at the time was to spread enough to create a global revolution, which they came rather close to doing. Not saying I'm in favor of the cassus belli we used to get involved in Vietnam but at the time there was a rather legitimate fear of communism.
>>33827390
Problem is despite hating communism, you're moving to one of the remaining Communist states. Granted I do agree with you that within 50 or so years that the SRV will change into something else, but still you're essentially becoming a citizen in a commie country. The rest of your post reads like something fresh out of the shittier sections of /pol/, though I can agree with throwing bankers and politicians out of helicopters.

>>33827547
You never could have "dealt" with it. Your proxy wars you've fought were in vain and doing so under the guise of fighting the "gomunizm" is kind of stupid when your universities were Marxist cesspits by the 1930s. And if you mean dropping nukes on Vietnam was an option without having parts of the US turned into glass parking lots you're drunk. I think this may have been a plan at some point though, and we narrowly avoided this with the missle crisis with JFK. And we know what happened to him. And then shortly after we were in a full fledged war in SE Asia. Funny huh? You also failed to knowledge our causing of Pol Pot to come into power.

>Vietnam is unanimously viewed in a negative light
Literally wut. By fucking who? And the us isn't fucking despised by the world over? Funny, I was talking to a S Korean ex military recently and he was talking about how they fucking hate the US almost as much as the North Koreans, because all they do is pay Jew tax to the US and are locked into dependency on them not to get fucked. A perfect example as how even N Korea is more of a "winner" if you look at it.

>>33827696
We've made progress but I feel it's mere appeasement to avoid real revolt. The long game is being played, and kids are being indoctrinated in school about how "guns r bad", and they won't miss a right they never wanted.

As far as Vietnam goes, I can get a renewable 5 year visa, so I don't need to give up my citizenship. But I won't have kids in the US, so it doesn't matter honestly, I'd renounce it if it meant my kids wouldn't go to US public schools.

>>33808773

>assmad commie who can't accept his system ultimately lost

File: 1490926958699.jpg (201KB, 857x1202px) Image search: [Google]

201KB, 857x1202px

>>33827819
Delusional Burgerclapper who doesn't realize that nobody uses the communist planned economy model except the Norks, yet doesn't realize the lost the ultimate battle to Cultural Marxism.

>>33827795
nope, the u.s. could've made all of this go away quite easily in a short duration. the proxy conflicts between the u.s. and sovki were the direct result of this refusal to act, but at the time were effective at both taxing the communists economically and militarily in the same manner as the arms race and at countering their influence, afghanistan as an example but really volumes have been written about all of the various escapades the east and west engaged in over the cold war. and no, american universities didn't really start to become "full" of marxists until 60s/70s.

>Literally wut. By fucking who?
i was talking about the war obviously. the same war all of the (often jewish) peaceniks were against.

>And if you mean dropping nukes on Vietnam
that actually was brought to the table as a part of duck hook, and it was feasible too. negative publicity was one of the main reasons it was scrapped.

but anyways no, i was referring to the era before all of this when the problem was in its infancy.

>Native annalists may look sadly back from the future on that period when we had the atomic bomb and the Russians didn't. Or when the Russians had aquired (through connivance and treachery of Westerns with warped minds) the atomic bomb - and yet still didn't have any stockpile of the weapons. That was the era when we might have destroyed Russia completely and not even skinned our elbows doing it.

all i'm getting from this thread is that i just need to start shooting anyone who waves a flag that isn't american or the gadsden

>>33816103
>By that argument, France did not lose in Vietnam, because France was not occupied and their withdrawal was not unconditional.

Precisely my point. This is not a black and white issue. France lost a colony, the US lost a client state when SV folded. We should have thrown France under the bus and sided with Ho.

>>33827984
>Jewish peacenicks
That's what's so aggravating and humiliating. The Jewish bankers and Israel have been leading us into conflicts around the globe since WWI, all the while Jewish Marxist professors spout against it. They burn the candle at both ends until there's nothing left. It's actually genius.

>it was actually on the table
Yup, but it wasn't the "negative publicity" that was in the way, but the fact that the US would have likely gotten fucked in retaliation.

>>33828362
Fucking this

>>33828247
>all i'm getting from this thread is that i just need to start shooting anyone who waves a flag that isn't Confederate or the gadsden

FTFY

>>33828362

But France did lose in Vietnam, because their stated goal was to preserve their colonial posessions.

France lost and the US lost.

>>33826818

As do lies.

Vietnam was a military defeat for the US military: the Pentagon failed to define a coherent strategy to implement the political goals. One can argue that the political goals were impossible, but the military brass failed to understand what the goal was to begin with.

The US military was deceively defeated in their attempted interdiction campaign. They lost the intelligence battle, they lost the propaganda battle.

The notion that the politicians stopped the military from achieving victory is completely laughable.

>>33828419
>Yup, but it wasn't the "negative publicity" that was in the way, but the fact that the US would have likely gotten fucked in retaliation.
unlikely, at worst it would've simply been ineffective.

>>33828362
>France under the bus and sided with Ho
utterly retarded.

>>33828444
It was in this manner I said Vietnam was like the US in gaining it's Independence. England lost its colony and so did France/US in the case of Vietnam. What economic model they implemented was irrelevant. The US was chasing invisible boogymen while Vietnam fought a hostile invader in a war fueled by by nationalism. You have to realize this fact also which burgers fail to consider: most Vietnam have lived as peasants in rice fields for hundreds of years. But they hated their Chinese and French masters, and didn't want another foreign force on their soil (and rightly so). I've talked with old Vietnamese in Vietnam and most have said little has changed since the 50s until very recently except when the US started blowing shit up. So it's a no brainer that fighting off the US was the best bet for them.

>>33828501
>The notion that the politicians stopped the military from achieving victory is completely laughable.
they did, the communists completely failed to score a decisive victory against the u.s. like they'd wished. politics were what prevented america from doing what was necessary to utterly destroy north vietnam, which were aggressive conventional tactics and intense bombardment, the latter not having been truly attempted on the scale that was needed until linebacker.

>>33828582
It wasn't, it was North Vietnam, China, and Russia using military action to impose their will on a sovereign nation.

>>33828614

Framing engagements in the framework of a conventional war is precisely why the US military failed to come up with a coherent strategy for Vietnam thus leading to their defeat. The NVA fought their war on their terms and won. There were numerous engagements where the US military stupidly bled for strategically worthless targets. those would be considered decisive victories in the context of that conflict.

>the latter not having been truly attempted on the scale that was needed until linebacker.

Curious how you think the USAF could have possibly achieved any of this considering that both Linebackers failed to do anything worth mentioning while suffering non-trivial losses.

Also Linebacker 2 was nothing more than a propaganda operation to influence American perception of the Paris negotiations.

>>33828614
I love this military strategic victory talk. It's funny how you can spin the hamster wheel and totally ignore how many men are still fucked up and on the street after that war over 40 years later and how many disfigured and mentally gutted came back. Shall I also cite a few books which go in depth on how padded the "kill" numbers were that were reported to brass just to be able to get supplies and rations sent in. Even the kill to death ratio is a fucking meme in that war, and many books talk about this.

>North Vietnam
It was the Viet Minh who defeated the French, not Ngo's faggot regime who basically were bitches for the French. So wrong again.

>>33828772
the problem was the u.s. wasn't permitted to send conventional forces into laos and cambodia to cut off the trail and remove communist sanctuaries on the scale that was needed, as well as into north vietnam which would've been much more decisive. about the only presence it had in those areas were sof in addition to whatever air assets were available, if anything america put too much faith into the special forces side of the war, not that they weren't effective.

>The NVA fought their war on their terms and won
they were defeated numerous times and suffered staggering losses. they were also a conventional force and were more effective than the local vc guerrillas.

>Curious how you think the USAF could have possibly achieved any of this considering that both Linebackers failed to do anything worth mentioning while suffering non-trivial losses.
linebacker-like operations should've been done much earlier in the war, just like the mining of haiphong harbour. and both aforementioned operations did considerable damage to the norths infrastructure. the air losses were hardly crippling for the us too.

>>33828828
oh spare me the sob stories and 70s era myths. vietnam was no more brutal than ww2 and significantly less people were left maimed or killed as well.
even the vietnamese came to terms with their own losses by the 90s.

the north invaded the south, get over it.

>>33829071
>myths
Kill anything that moves by Nick Turse, The Phoenix Program by Douglas Valentine are a few I've read recently to that go into details about some of the bullshit "kill to death ratio". Most of your "kills" were by LSD tripping niggers killing young women and children anyway. The military changed the way it trained it's infantry when Macnemara came in. Why do you think ptsd was an issue more than ever in Vietnam rather than wwii? I'm sorry it doesn't fit your "go murika" narrative. I don't give a fuck either way, I wasn't there.

>The north invaded the South.
Tell me, what gave the south any power after the defeat of the French?

>>33829071

what makes you think the US military would have any success in laos or cambodia when they couldn't win the COIN war in south vietnam? similarly, how would the US do any better in an occupation of north vietnam?

>not that they weren't effective

but they weren't effective. MACV-SOG was entirely evicted from the border areas by 1968 and had no success afterwards.

>they were defeated numerous times and suffered staggering losses

the body-count metric is worse than useless and is literally only used by revisionists. the only clear defeats suffered by the NVA and VC was when they attempted a conventional engagement, like khe sanh. when the NVA inflict casualties and withdraw, that is a victory for the NVA, not the US.

>both aforementioned operations did considerable damage to the norths infrastructure

yes, what the USAF deemed to be modern infrastructure was damaged. but the USAF also knew that the NV logistical system was dencentralized and externally supplied, thus rendering their assessments irrelevant. see commando hunt and the USAF's own admission that their estimates of interdiction operations were nothing more than fabricatiosn to please the senior brass.

>linebacker-like operations should've been done much earlier in the war, just like the mining of haiphong harbour

See above. Linebacker's goal wasn't even interdiction, it was propaganda (and even that did not work).

>the air losses were hardly crippling for the us too.

16 B-52 lost + 4 damaged in 10 days for Linebacker 2. An unsustainable rate.

>>33829224
>Kill anything that moves by Nick Turse, The Phoenix Program by Douglas Valentine
ok so you're just a shitposter then.

>Most of your "kills" were by LSD tripping niggers killing young women and children anyway
yep, definitely a shitposter.

and by the way, most official bodycount estimates generally hovered around 400,000 to 950,000 communist deaths. even the vietnamese government admitted to losing around 1 million.

>>33829224
>Tell me, what gave the south any power after the defeat of the French?
the geneva conference

>>33829252
>what makes you think the US military would have any success in laos or cambodia when they couldn't win the COIN war in south vietnam? similarly, how would the US do any better in an occupation of north vietnam?
because there is absolutely nothing to indicate the u.s. military was unable to properly go toe to toe with the forces, especially since it had no problem clobbering the japanese and germans 2 decades prior, in addition to north korea which was at a time when the military was in much worse shape than in the mid 60s.

>but they weren't effective. MACV-SOG was entirely evicted from the border areas by 1968 and had no success afterwards.
yes they were, but the problem was it wasn't enough. and they continued to be active in laos and cambodia until the their formal withdrawal in the early 70s.

>the body-count metric is worse than useless and is literally only used by revisionists. the only clear defeats suffered by the NVA and VC was when they attempted a conventional engagement, like khe sanh. when the NVA inflict casualties and withdraw, that is a victory for the NVA, not the US.
you really know nothing about the war do you? the allies engaged in numerous successful offensives against the communists and repeatedly repelled their attacks against the south, like in hue during 68 or at an loc.

>yes, what the USAF deemed to be modern infrastructure was damaged. but the USAF also knew that the NV logistical system was dencentralized and externally supplied, thus rendering their assessments irrelevant. see commando hunt and the USAF's own admission that their estimates of interdiction operations were nothing more than fabricatiosn to please the senior brass.
no it wasn't, north vietnam was a country like any other with its own rail systems, airports, power grids, roads, and logistics. commando hunt was another half measure against the trail, it was not the equivalent of linebacker or any other conventional bombing.

>>33829252
>See above. Linebacker's goal wasn't even interdiction, it was propaganda (and even that did not work).
linebacker was meant to be a significant blow against the northern infrastructure, which it was. it was also attempted to be used as a bargaining chip.

>16 B-52 lost + 4 damaged in 10 days for Linebacker 2. An unsustainable rate.
the us employed hundreds of b52s and thousands of smaller fighter bombers. the air force had already lost hundreds during rolling thunder and barrel roll.

>>33829528
>because there is absolutely nothing to indicate the u.s. military was unable to properly go toe to toe with the forces

sure there is: the US military lost the COIN war in south vietnam.

>especially since it had no problem clobbering the japanese and germans 2 decades prior

stuck in the conventional war mindset. as before, the same reason the pentagon couldn't figure out what to do in vietnam.

>yes they were, but the problem was it wasn't enough

macv-sog had no intelligence worth a damn, their south vietnamese partners were thoroughly infiltrated by north vietnamese agents, and you think they needed to do more? of what? getting btfo when their drop time and location were leaked so they jumped right into a death trap?

>they continued to be active in laos and cambodia until the their formal withdrawal in the early 70s.

doing nothing important.

>you really know nothing about the war do you

oh, the irony

>the allies engaged in numerous successful offensives against the communists

name a single strategic offensive undertaken by the US military that had a demonstrable effect on achieving their stated war goals.

>no it wasn't

yes it was

>north vietnam was a country like any other with its own rail systems, airports, power grids, roads, and logistics

oh i didnt know hanoi airport was a crucal logistical link. you learn something every day.

by the way, the sole reason that Hanoi was off limits for a long time was because it was by far the most heavily defended area and the USAF took losses every time they ventured in (as demonstrated by linebacker 2).

>commando hunt was another half measure against the trail

commando hunt was the primary campaign by the USAF against the trail, for multiple years. don't call it a half measure just because it was a failure.

>it was not the equivalent of linebacker or any other conventional bombing.

Well yes, commando hunt was an earnest interdiction effort, the linebackers were propaganda efforts.

>>33829572
>linebacker was meant to be a significant blow against the northern infrastructure, which it was

Does it matter to the NV war effort if Hanoi lost electricity for a month or two? The operation was symbolic, and even as a symbol, it was a failure. See below.

>it was also attempted to be used as a bargaining chip.

As John Negroponte said, the US bombed North Vietnam into accepting US concessions in Paris. The bargaining chip cajole North Vietnam into accepting any deal that would allow Nixon to claim "peace with honor".

>>33824331
Because people were sheltered and it was covered by several cameras for the public to see. There's video of it too.

Most people hadn't seen anything of the sort, and up until then the narrative had been Saigon was peaceful and America was easily winning the war. Then boom, the Tet Offensive happens and cameras capture everything with no context.

>>33829572
>the us employed hundreds of b52s and thousands of smaller fighter bombers. the air force had already lost hundreds during rolling thunder and barrel roll.

>922 aircraft lost in 3.5 years in rolling thunder
>16 aircraft lost in 10 days in operation linebacker 2

lrn2math

>>33829798
I should point out, remember there was a time before Wikipedia. When people still mailed letters to reach soldiers overseas. They had no idea what that VC piece of shit did, they just saw a scared man drop on his ass like the lights were turned off.

>>33829682
>sure there is: the US military lost the COIN war in south vietnam.
it largely didn't, and regardless that has no bearing on its effectiveness in conventional battles and operations. even the vc were left largely crippled after a few years to the point where pavn regulars had to be brought in to act as guerillas.

>stuck in the conventional war mindset. as before, the same reason the pentagon couldn't figure out what to do in vietnam.
the pavn was a conventional fighting force and employed many conventional tactics. hell, even when they defeated the south in 75 they did it with tanks and infantry. the whole idea that the vietnamese communists were like a bunch of indians riding around on horseback taking potshots at war weary gi's is a complete myth. the pentagon knew exactly what to do, the problem was they weren't able to.

>macv-sog had no intelligence worth a damn, their south vietnamese partners were thoroughly infiltrated by north vietnamese agents, and you think they needed to do more? of what? getting btfo when their drop time and location were leaked so they jumped right into a death trap?
they were the most elite fighting force the us had at the time and were effective at providing ground intelligence for american bombers, partaking in search and rescue missions, and employing a number of unconventional tactics against the communist forces even when completely outnumbered, like during tailwind for example. you clearly know nothing about us special forces during vietnam.

>doing nothing important.
destroying weapons caches and kicking communist ass is pretty significant.

>name a single strategic offensive undertaken by the US military that had a demonstrable effect on achieving their stated war goals.
hastings, prairie, dewey canyon, union i&ii, hump, hawthorne, and many more.

>yes it was
sorry, i forgot north vietnam was a primitive country inhabited by hunter gatherers who hadn't invented the wheel.

>>33829915
>it largely didn't
>could not control the countryside
>could not win hearts and minds
a textbook counterinsurgency failure

>its effectiveness in conventional battles and operations
entirely irrelevant in vietnam

>even the vc were left largely crippled after a few years to the point where pavn regulars had to be brought in to act as guerillas.
oh so the amateurs part-timers were killed off (probably as a deliberate act by Hanoi to decimate potentially unreliable southerners) and the pro-team took it to the finish line. ok.

>the pavn was a conventional fighting force and employed many conventional tactics
they did both quite well.

>hell, even when they defeated the south in 75 they did it with tanks and infantry
because by then an insurgency campaign was pointless? shocking, really.

>the pentagon knew exactly what to do
bullshit. they couldn't even figure out what to do. some bright officers tried to use the algerian case as a basis for a new strategy, but they were brushed side: body count remained the strategy of the war (if you can even call that a strategy)

>were effective at providing ground intelligence for american bombers
they weren't, otherwise commando hunt would have been more successful. in reality, the NVA set up an effective system of spotters and patrols that rooted out the MACV teams quickly, often within a few hours of insertion.

>partaking in search and rescue missions
sure, but this contributes nothing strategically.

>like during tailwind for example
an operation with absolutely zero consequences. individual raids do not demonstrate a coherent plan to achieve war goals.

>destroying weapons caches and kicking communist ass is pretty significant.
and how much of a dent did they really put into NVA supplies? not even a blip. what were their losses to achieve this non-blip of an impact?

>>33829682
>oh i didnt know hanoi airport was a crucal logistical link. you learn something every day.
they had aircraft by 65 you know.

>by the way, the sole reason that Hanoi was off limits for a long time was because it was by far the most heavily defended area and the USAF took losses every time they ventured in (as demonstrated by linebacker 2).
it was off limits because they didn't want to risk potentially provoking china or russia, the same reason they were stingy with the b52s throughout the war despite the b52s being far more effective.

>commando hunt was the primary campaign by the USAF against the trail, for multiple years. don't call it a half measure just because it was a failure.
it only commenced in 68, and it was a half measure meant to gradually wear down the communist forces. the u.s knew that more was needed.

>>33829727
>Does it matter to the NV war effort if Hanoi lost electricity for a month or two? The operation was symbolic, and even as a symbol, it was a failure. See below.
well yes considering it was 1972 and electricity wasn't this newfangled gadget only used for impressing old people and children with flameless lanterns.

> the US bombed North Vietnam into accepting US concessions in Paris. The bargaining chip cajole North Vietnam into accepting any deal that would allow Nixon to claim "peace with honor".
and it was largely successful.

>>33829915
>hastings, prairie, dewey canyon, union i&ii, hump, hawthorne, and many more.

do you understand the difference between a strategic victory versus a tactical victory?

moreover, since the goal of the NVA was often to simply to inflict casualties on US forces, many of these so-called tactical victories were strategic NVA victories.

>sorry, i forgot north vietnam was a primitive country inhabited by hunter gatherers who hadn't invented the wheel.

dat strawman

if the NVA were so hurt by linebackers, why were they immediately able to launch operations afterwards?

>>33830052
>they had aircraft by 65 you know.
Goalposts moved. Were their supplies being flown in by air?

>it was off limits because they didn't want to risk potentially provoking china or russia,
Said provocation would be a conventional invasion of North Vietnam. Bombing was never a problem, other than USAF losses over Hanoi.

>it only commenced in 68, and it was a half measure meant to gradually wear down the communist forces. the u.s knew that more was needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Commando_Hunt
>The interdiction campaign against the enemy logistics corridor was massively expanded due to the increased number of U.S. aircraft (approximately 500 planes) made available by the closure of Rolling Thunder. By November 1968 bombing missions over southern Laos had climbed by 300 percent, from 4,700 sorties in October to 12,800 in November.[10] By the end of the conflict, U.S. and South Vietnamese aircraft would drop over three million tons of ordnance on Laos, three times the total tonnage dropped on North Vietnam.
That's some half measure.

>well yes considering it was 1972 and electricity wasn't this newfangled gadget only used for impressing old people and children with flameless lanterns.
Nice avoidance. So did it matter or not? Was the NVA not able to continue operations?

>and it was largely successful.
Bargaining chip implies it was a negotiating tactic in favor of the US; a concession is the opposite of that. Negroponte's point was cynical, of course, it was the American concessions that did the trick in Paris, not the bombings. The bombings were a sideshow for the American public.

>>33829071
>they were also a conventional force
Barely.

Most of them were conscripts with little experience and training. Half of the vaunted technology given by China and Russia to North Vietnam was mostly their hand-me-down stuff they were looking to get rid of.

muh k/d ratio isn't anywhere near as impressive as people make it out to be

>>33830044
>a textbook counterinsurgency failure
not considering it left the nlf crippled, prevented any populace uprising, and left large areas cleared and in charge of the arvn.

>entirely irrelevant in vietnam
again, your lack of knowledge is laughable.

>oh so the amateurs part-timers were killed off (probably as a deliberate act by Hanoi to decimate potentially unreliable southerners) and the pro-team took it to the finish line. ok.
and now you're resorting to inane conspiracies. the communists getting clobbered, losing considerable ground, completely failing in their goals whilst dying in disproportionate numbers and having their only local movement/ally in the south crushed was not what hanoi wanted. it was not in the interest for the pavn regulars nor were they capable to act as guerillas ala the nlf for an extended period of time, it was done out of pure necessity.

>they did both quite well.
so you're willing to retract your statement about conventional tactics being pointless?

>because by then an insurgency campaign was pointless? shocking, really.
the insurgency was pointless throughout the war and was not the driving force behind the norths victory against the south.

>bullshit. they couldn't even figure out what to do. some bright officers tried to use the algerian case as a basis for a new strategy, but they were brushed side: body count remained the strategy of the war (if you can even call that a strategy)
they did, but attrition was simply an adaption to the constraints that were placed on them. and even then, it was possible to succeed but it would've taken longer, much longer than the political establishment or the public was willing to handle at the time.

>they weren't, otherwise commando hunt would have been more successful.
again, commando hunt was another half measure that needed more time.

>>33808074
Yearly reminder that Ho was a Murrican loving son of a bitch that got sold out by the Americans twice, and just said fuck it and bedded the commies.

>>33808117
>Xuan Loc

I'm going to be going to this province in the next year or so to meet my in laws.

>>33830044
>in reality, the NVA set up an effective system of spotters and patrols that rooted out the MACV teams quickly, often within a few hours of insertion.
they were never able to properly counted sof and more often than not found themselves in ambushes of their own.

>sure, but this contributes nothing strategically.
how does rescuing downed pilots and relieving other forces not contribute, you imbecile?

>an operation with absolutely zero consequences. individual raids do not demonstrate a coherent plan to achieve war goals.
that's why i called it an example. there were many different operations like tailwind being conducted by special forces and that resulted in victory or lopsided casualties.

>and how much of a dent did they really put into NVA supplies? not even a blip. what were their losses to achieve this non-blip of an impact?
alot considering the cambodian campaign rendered the logistical system practically crippled for some time after.

>>33830113
>do you understand the difference between a strategic victory versus a tactical victory?
are you just reading the wikipedia articles? often times they list these battles as strategic victories even if they resulted in bad publicity. you asked for operations that accomplished their goals in some form and i gave you examples.

>moreover, since the goal of the NVA was often to simply to inflict casualties on US forces, many of these so-called tactical victories were strategic NVA victories.
that is a total copout, and by your logic the us must've won every single engagement they inflicted casualties since attrition was one of the main strategies employed. many of these operations were designed to neuter enemy forces anyways. the nva were like any other army, and had cities and areas they wanted to take. during tet they completely failed at all of these goals.

>dat strawman
i'm just taking the piss out of you, since you seem to think that north vietnam had no use for modern logistics.

>>33830176
>not considering it left the nlf crippled
Did you not just say the NVA simply stepped in to take over the insurgency campaign? So what does the crippling of the VC make the slightest bit of difference?

>and left large areas cleared and in charge of the arvn
And yet in the Paris Accords, there was a clause allowing the NVA to stay encamped in conquered Southern territory. Funny that.

>again, your lack of knowledge is laughable.
Ah, the irony.

>and now you're resorting to inane conspiracies
Not even close. After 1975 many of the fellow travelers in South Vietnam were thrown into re-education camps.

>completely failing in their goals
The VC were only defeated when they were ordered to support a conventional offensive at Hue. As an insuregency force, they did fine.

>so you're willing to retract your statement about conventional tactics being pointless?
Nice try. Premature conventional offensives by the NVA were indeed pointless: they were totally outmatched by the US in that aspect. They did well given what they were. But since this was not a conventional war, everything you say about US conventional superiority is still irrelevant.

>the insurgency was pointless throughout the war and was not the driving force behind the norths victory against the south.
Said insurgency drove the US military out of the theater entirely, so it was absolutely crucial.

>it was possible to succeed but it would've taken longer, much longer than the political establishment or the public was willing to handle at the time.
Why? You think a coherent strategy would have dawned upon them, given time? That's cute.

>again, commando hunt was another half measure that needed more time.
Debunked: >>33830169

>>33821539
You know what isn't in Moscow? Communism.

>>33830295
>they were never able to properly counted sof
you mean counter?

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB77/index1.html
> The People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) employed a number of effective camouflage, deception, and patrol techniques. Hanoi also devoted substantial intelligence resources to the penetration of MACVSOG, including the use of barmaids, drivers, and other local personnel as spies. As a result of these measures, OP 35 casualty rates rapidly mounted. In 1969, the peak year of OP 35 activity, the casualty rate per mission was a staggering 50 percent. Even at this cost, however, OP 35's cross-border operations never seriously impeded enemy traffic across the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

>how does rescuing downed pilots and relieving other forces not contribute
towards a strategic goal, fucktard. learn to read.

>there were many different operations like tailwind being conducted by special forces and that resulted in victory or lopsided casualties.
again, to what strategic end?

>alot considering the cambodian campaign rendered the logistical system practically crippled for some time after.
Which campaign is that? Lam Son 719, i.e. the total failure of Vietnamization?

>are you just reading the wikipedia articles?
are you reading anything at all?
>accomplished their goals in some form
I asked for a strategic success, as in, some operation that achieved a cogent COIN success. You listed none.

>since attrition was one of the main strategies employed
You would be correct, if attrition/body-count was a worthwhile strategy. Alas, it was not.

>many of these operations were designed to neuter enemy forces anyways
And they failed, because the NVA simply re-occupied the areas after a withdrawal.

>had no use for modern logistics.
They were far less dependent on them than you believe. Keep strawmanning.

>>33829363
((geneva conference))

Just what I thought, Shlohmo.

>>33830182
Correct.

Jesus man, I had no idea just how many fucking statsist there are on 4chan, especially /k/. It's like a bunch of literal boot licking faggots.

>hurr durr, Vietnam is da gombunizm. Iraq had doubleyoo emm Dee's. Molon Labia, here's my money for my tax stamp, please let me have a 12" barrel guberment"

>>33830113
>if the NVA were so hurt by linebackers, why were they immediately able to launch operations afterwards?
because they still had guys near the south and border regions? because their entire army wasn't killed? if russia nuked dc the entire u.s military wouldn't cease to exist.

>Goalposts moved. Were their supplies being flown in by air?
yes? they were given multiple transport craft by the ussr.

>Said provocation would be a conventional invasion of North Vietnam. Bombing was never a problem, other than USAF losses over Hanoi.
which is exactly what was needed and what the establishment was afraid to do. it's unlikely that the sovki and usa were willing to get into a nuclear war over vietnam.

>That's some half measure.
it was.

>Nice avoidance. So did it matter or not? Was the NVA not able to continue operations?
that's completely irrelevant since the nva were not specifically targeted, and north vietnam getting their infrastructure nearly destroyed is not going to make the nva disappear overnight, but it was a step in the right direction. too bad it came too late.

>Bargaining chip implies it was a negotiating tactic in favor of the US; a concession is the opposite of that. Negroponte's point was cynical, of course, it was the American concessions that did the trick in Paris, not the bombings. The bombings were a sideshow for the American public.
the bombings were a response to talks breaking down.

>>33830173
>Barely.

>Most of them were conscripts with little experience and training. Half of the vaunted technology given by China and Russia to North Vietnam was mostly their hand-me-down stuff they were looking to get rid of.
ah the old poor farmers with rusty equipment routine. you're wrong since they were a well funded, well equipped modern fighting force with their own airforce, artillery, and anti-air and were more than capable of conducting operations against the south.

>>33830173
>Most of them were conscripts with little experience and training. Half of the vaunted technology given by China and Russia to North Vietnam was mostly their hand-me-down stuff they were looking to get rid of.
and if anything, the only groups that got really shortchanged in the armament department were the various montagnard cidg and local arvn units who were still running around with bolt action rifles and whatever ww2 surplus the usa had sitting around.

>muh k/d ratio isn't anywhere near as impressive as people make it out to be
lopsided infantry vs infantry casualties are pretty impressive.

>>33830469
>because they still had guys near the south and border regions?
how can they sustain operations without logistical support, which was supposedly damaged or crippled by the linebacker operations?

>yes? they were given multiple transport craft by the ussr.
and what was their total contribution to the logistical effort?

>which is exactly what was needed and what the establishment was afraid to do
ignoring the idiocy of this statement, don't change the topic. you said hanoi was not bombed because of some political factor, i pointed out north vietnam was constantly bombed and hanoi was avoided due to AA. what is your response.

>it was.
>sticks to this falsehood even when shown that the USAF dropped 3x as much ordnance on the trail as north vietnam proper
i do admire your obstinacy

>that's completely irrelevant since the nva were not specifically targeted,
>NVA must use said logical infrastructure
>sustained operations depend on logistics
much irrelevance

>the bombings were a response to talks breaking down.
I like how you ignore a first hand account of those talks from Negroponte to press your own debunked version of events. What part of "concessions" don't you understand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II
>Senator Henry Jackson (D, Wash.), tried to persuade Nixon to make a televised address in order to explain to the American people that "we bombed them in order to get them back to the table."[73] It would, however, have been extremely difficult to get informed observers in the U.S. to believe that he "had bombed Hanoi in order to force North Vietnamese acceptance of terms they had already agreed to."

That means you are uninformed.

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>>33830469
>you're wrong since they were a well funded, well equipped modern fighting force with their own airforce, artillery, and anti-air and were more than capable of conducting operations against the south.
citation needed

>>33815866
Why does the chicom have 6 nipples

>>33826756
British pensioners reenacting famous photos from Vietnam.
It's the only entertainment they have, now that the Sharia patrols have smashed all the tvs in the neighborhood.

>>33827149
Aaand wallpaper

>>33830618
Mig21 and Dvinas in the 1960s...

For topkek sake - 50 years later, the same tech has around 50 operators in the world.

>>33824190
Can anyone tell me if the gun in pic related is any good?

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>>33824190
>Not posting the superior gif in color

>>33815976
I think I've been to that KFC shiieeeet

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>>33827850
>it wasn't real communism guise
Every single time

>>33827149
>You're not in Kansas anymore...

>>33825072
Lmfao did a viet kieu fuck your girl?

Your comment literally makes no sense whatsoever

>>33808074
Neoliberalism is cancer

>>33834100
It makes no sense? How? The "south Vietnamese" fighters were fucking cowards looking for a buck while the Viet Cong and Viet Minh were revolutionaries and nationalists. Or they had high positions to fuck over their fellow Vietnamese given to them by the French. Instead of taking a financial hit and understand the cost of revolution, they fought their own countrymen. Those same traitors found there way here, and big surprise, they aren't loyal to our country either. Two or three generations in and their kids are basically sjw Marxists and race mixers who want whites gone out of the US. Meanwhile, they milk the system dry collecting welfare and ducking taxes yet have a giant house with 10 late model cars. Fuck them.

>>33834489
Hahahhahahahaha oh my the nva LARPer is so salty

Why the so much focus on the viet kieus? You really think that most people in vietnam wouldn't jump ship if they had the chance to come to america? Lmfao fuck off you sad monkey- there is very little nationalistic pride to go around when youre run by a bunch of "we wuz revolutionary commies" that feel little shame at being employed by chinese factory owners. Im sure those viet kieus dont feel too bad about not sticking around for the shitty "revolution". Vietnam as a country is prime real estate for economic growth but so far its nothing but a lagging country

But continue your projection...i find it hilarious how your so called beef with viet kieus is that they drive a bunch of white lexus cars while taking out welfare checks and partaking in tax evasion- do you really hear yourself right now?

Its okay if the viet kieus dont want to play with you at the playground anon lol

>>33834733
Nigger they make up 90% of the people I associate with on a daily basis. You do understand that the things I'm judging them on are the same things we judge worthless Mexicans by, right? Yet we let Asians slide because they hide it better. It's bullshit. They also refuse to deal with anyone else out of their racial group, and will only do business with other Vietnamese for their doctors, realtors, etc. To add insult to injury they regularly commit fraud against our immigration system, and I've been personally propositioned numerous times to take part in a fake marriage for money for some of their distant relatives back home. You obviously haven't lived in Vietnam, you know fuck all. It's not like fucking N Korea, and most of my friends there manage to earn a very reasonable living and arguably live better than we do here. It sounds like you're another butthurt gook waving your bullshit fake striped flag in socal. Take a break from shitposting on 4chan and go back to the casino, Hung.

>>33834983
>They also refuse to deal with anyone else out of their racial group, and will only do business with other Vietnamese for their doctors, realtors

Just like any other ethnic enclave? Youre really cherry picking here, faggot

>I've been personally propositioned numerous times to take part in a fake marriage for money for some of their distant relatives back home

Lmfao brainlet how is this exclusive to viet kieus- are the people receiving the said money being morally exempt?

>It's not like fucking N Korea, and most of my friends there manage to earn a very reasonable living and arguably live better than we do here.

I never said it was N. korea, nice strawman tho. I love how you want to deflect from the fact that the major firms in vietnam are predominantly chinese owned. Lmfao you retarded monkey vietnam is outsourcing infrastructure work to the chinese as we speak. No shit you can cherry pick a few well off people in vietnam while ignoring the countless street vendors and farmers. Derp you realize there are many other asian countries to compare vietnam to? Being better of than cambodia or thailand is no large feat, moron

>It sounds like you're another butthurt gook waving your bullshit fake striped flag in socal

Lmfao this kid is going to pretend to be a non-uncle ho dick rider. Dont act as if anyone else uses the term viet kieu.
Quite the pottery knowing that you complained about sjw viet kieus when northerner peasants are the most willing to whore themselves out to come to america

Sad NVA larper is sad

>>33834489
>>33834983

Complaint #1:
>Two or three generations in and their kids are basically sjw Marxists and race mixers

Complaint #2:
>They also refuse to deal with anyone else out of their racial group

Sperg-ing out on a weapons board because a viet kieu fucked my bitch: for dummies

>>33835106
Reading your butthurt Socal Viet newspaper propaganda again, Tran? Most foreign investors are from South Korea, though many Chinese businesses have been there for decades. So fucking what? The Chinese fucking owns the US's debt and we get fucked by them regularly until we do something about it. Most Vietnamese were peasants under the French as well, but that was ok, right? Because your faggot grandpa was sucking French dick for bucoup bux. Vietnam has done pretty fucking good despite everything stacked against them, and it will continue to improve, while your kids in the States will shit out half Viet half nog kids and commit more crime and fraud like your buddy Dr. Dao that got booted off that airline. You know, the one who gives out drugs for gay sex favors? Try harder.

>>33809250
Baaahahahahaha gook Ronald McDonald

>>33835220
>The Chinese fucking owns the US's debt and we get fucked by them regularly until we do something about it

Lol is this how your brainlet mind works? Having china hold your debt is far less worse than sabre rattling with china while having them as a top FDI for your country. Are you forgetting about north vietnamese peasants burning down chinese factories to protest the chinese government? If China cuts its FDI who gets hurt do you think? If the U.S defaults on chinese debt who else do you think gets hurt?

Let that iota of a brain cool down for a moment, you uncle ho dick rider

>>33835369
All of the pressure Vietnam is facing with China so do the rest of Asia. You really care about peasants getting fucked by China, stop buying your Foxcon China built iPhone, Quang. And maybe go back home and give a positive contribution instead of taking us taxpayer subsides while you put $4000 Volk wheels on your EG hatch Civic. Yellow man go home.

>>33835622
>Nah ill piss off the uncle ho dick rider by buying another iphone

Precisely why you faggots ended up here. You're a fucking roach. I don't blame the Viet Minh for putting your grandpappy in a re-education camp, I wish they had routed out all the traitors and executed them before our shitty politicians let them come onto our shores. On the day of the rope we'll put you on with all the Marxist la raza spics and true commies and do what should have been done decades ago.

PS- Viet Kieu do absolutely nothing to stand against gun control or commie like bills in the US

>>33835508
Nah ill piss off the uncle ho dick rider by buying another iphone

But stay mad mr. "china lite" zhang- dont act as if your subhuman peasant mindset puts in more taxes into the system than taking out

Lmfao the nva larper complaining about taxes- oh my what a brainlet you are

>>33835691
This is hilarious knowing that uncle ho natives would literally whore themselves out for a real iphone

But viet kieus amirite

Keep larping tho

>>33835745
Lol, a small portion of "gai goi" subhumans bu cu for an iPhone, some of which are provided by you, kek. Meanwhile you pay your daughter's Mercedes payment as she takes her gender studies class and fucks Jamal and partakes in molly-fueled yoloswag parties in your home.

>>33836007
>It's bullshit. They also refuse to deal with anyone else out of their racial group, and will only do business with other Vietnamese for their doctors, realtors, etc.
>buh buh buh muh viet kieus are the race mixers!

lol the live role play is real. Uncle ho dog thinks he can pretend to be a red blooded american that pays his pretend taxes

meanwhile in reality, your family back at home easily bends over at the first sign of a sex tourist lmfao. A plane ticket to America? oh please you'd have your lips around sand nigger dick if thats whats being offered for your mother. Being a descendant of a street vendor trash family is sad, but you don't have to snoop down that low, Zhang.

top kek it excites me knowing that you're fuming at the mouth about a bunch of viet kieus running around the place. Keep staring from outside that one bedroom apartment at the life you'll never have, china-lite.

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>>33836089
Du me mi, toi khong phai nguoi Viet, toi la nguoi My trang. You've assumed I have a dog in this fight but I've seen it from both sides and I know the truth, Tran.

>>33836123
>manlet

don't think you're tall enough to see things from both sides, NVA larper

LMFAO

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>>33836105
I fucking know your people better than anyone, so don't try to bullshit me. You assumed I was Vietnamese, now fuck off and fuck your ad-hom. Face the facts you are no better than La Raza.

>>33809882
>big strong americans lost to a bunch of commie rice farmers with rakes
But they didn't, they stopped the expansion of communism and should I remind you that the western bloc won the cold war? Furthermore, North Vietnam was supported by the USSR and China.

>>33836154
>ad-hom

quite ironic knowing your posts are fuming about viet kieus having too many lexus cars hahhahahahhaha oh my viet kieus are also race mixing buh buh buh MUH BULLSHIT They also refuse to deal with anyone else out of their racial group

>You assumed I was Vietnamese

mostly the accusations were LARPing, which you are doing a lot of. But you're right, any viet wouldn't be caught looking as trashy as you are. You're so salty that you're pulling out google translate for weak phrases, lol kid so sad

I'll ask the viet kieus in the area to split their welfare check with you so that you don't have to wear grandpa's soiled trousers while you LARP some more in your manlet life :DD

>>33836198
I said do business outside of their racial group you illiterate slant. Viet Kieu women will mostly fuck anybody who will pay for their E class payment and has some tattooed coyfish and geisha on them.

>Trashy
I'm shooting in the desert you fag, you know most of you don't even fucking get guns unless you're going to try to collect a gambling debt your buddy didn't pay you. Should I have got some urban streetwear and Supreme gear so I could look as cool as you?

>>33836586
>I said do business outside of their racial group you illiterate slant. Viet Kieu women will mostly fuck anybody who will pay for their E class payment and has some tattooed coyfish and geisha on them.

still projecting- meanwhile you're a manlet that's getting cucked 24/7 regardless of skintone- clearly race mixing should be the last thing on your mind. Why do you even care that an ethnic enclave doesn't want your manlet ass around to do business with? What could a subhuman like you contribute? Do you need a viet kieu job because you're too poor?
Swing for the fences, manlet!

>I'm shooting in the desert you fag, you know most of you don't even fucking get guns unless you're going to try to collect a gambling debt your buddy didn't pay you. Should I have got some urban streetwear and Supreme gear so I could look as cool as you?

Yeah, grandpa's worn-out trousers and nike high tops from payless shoes are clearly the way to go when you're shooting in the desert. I didn't make that previous comment as a critic of your "fashion" preferences, you dense nigger. You're literally in poverty hobo gear and you still had the nerve to post that LMFAO

Want me to find you a voucher for ross- you know...dress for less? Trailer feces like yourself probably chose nike high tops for that extra inch of height LOLOLOLOL try getting a GED first kiddo

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>>33836711
I don't need consumer debt, Hung. Post your guns you no-guns fag. You couldn't refute any of my points and now you have to turn this into a dick measuring contest, which is funny coming from an Asian. But it's ok, as soon as this shit hole comes down you'll be begging your countrymen to let you back in.

>>33836814
>being this embarrassed about his soiled trousers and high top nikes

tell me more manlet

>>33836836
>soiled trousers
Like the ones your grandpa took off before he ran away from Bac Ho's forces so they wouldn't identify him as traitor to his people? But you faggots are so brave to go and pick on a store owner in Socal for having a photo of him in his store, right? Fuck you and your flag, traitor. I'll wipe my ass with your shitty yellow flag. Ill be sure to fly my Vietnamese flag (the real one with the star) next to my stars and bars next time I pass by the king egg roll to let you faggots know I'm not afraid. Your countrymen may not be as bitter as you cunts are here, but I'm not afraid to defend them even if they don't want to bring up your shameful past.

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>>33836957
>buh buh buh what can i do to deflect from my grandpa pants and high top nikes
>but but but but this will surely show that I'm not a manlet!

a lot of yapping and no bite. Nobody's afraid of a manlet trailer turd like you, lmfao. LARPing to the max

so edgy- is it really gonna change that you're a peasant tier manlet? See what happens!

>we will never know if Spetsnaz units did crazy shit during vietnam
>we will never know if MACV/SOG and Spetsnaz fought each other directly in Vietnam

Feels bad.

>>33838119

I remember reading a story about how some american SF got captured during a mission and were interrogated by a Spetsnaz officer that was assisting the VC.

They ended up escaping by hijacking a Hind-A and caused havoc on the Ho-Chi-Minh trail before they made it back safely.

>>33838119
>need spetsnaz to fuck up macv

peasants with AK's did that just fine

>>33838168
Lost my shit

>>33838793
1:150. Not like cold war era spetsnaz are anything to brag about.

>>33839479

see >>33830397
>In 1969, the peak year of OP 35 activity, the casualty rate per mission was a staggering 50 percent

literally btfo of the hcm trail

>>33839479
>he doesn't know that the Spetsnaz reached their peak during the mid/late Cold War along with the rest of the Soviet military

>>33839601
Uh you do know that only means half of any given action would result in half the force being kia, wia, or mia, mostly wia. That doesn't mean much either since rates for CCN often approached 100%. Meanwhile the Spetsnaz got cucked out of Afghanistan and lost hard to a bunch of churkas.

>>33839931
>macv got definitivelyt btfo
>but...but...spetsnaz also got btfo somewhere else

super argument

>>33839967
No where does it say that. I thought you lefties fancies yourselves intellectuals?

>>33840025
>50% casualties every time they went out
>failed to achieve their goals
>NV agents infiltrated their bases and organization

one needs not to be an intellectual to see that is a legitimate case of btfo

conversely, one has to be totally retarded not to

>>33840349
They averaged 50% kia, wia or mia, the rand report doesn't say anything about bases either.

>>33840854
>They averaged 50% kia, wia or mia

you know casualty != KIA, right

>the rand report doesn't say anything about bases either

it does, try reading it.

MACV being compromised is widely discussed in other literature as well. for example, it turns out the head of SV counter-intelligence (which worked closely with MACV and the CIA) was a northern agent all along.

>>33840951
No that is a common misconception. Sure SV may've been corrupt but macv itself wasn't fully penetrated.

>>33841145
>wasn't fully penetrated
>fully

note that shifting of goalposts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Assistance_Command,_Vietnam_%E2%80%93_Studies_and_Observations_Group

>Some American writers on the subject (including many ex-SOG personnel) blamed the failure of the operations on the penetration of the unit by enemy spies – a claim not entirely unsupported by fact.

https://books.google.com/books?id=JE2D2GxZjjQC&lpg=PA891&ots=zN2TCj-9js&dq=south%20vietnam%20counterintelligence%20northern%20agent&pg=PA891#v=onepage&q=eventually%20found%20that%20Vietcong%20agents%20were%20running%20the%20g&f=false

>Deciding that we didn t yet know enough to make an issue of the matter Klein and I went back to plugging the documents The more we read the wilder the story became With a great deal of help from the CIA counterintelligence staff we eventually found that Vietcong agents were running the government's National Police in the northern part of the country that for many years the VC had controlled the counterintelligence branch of the South Vietnamese Military Security Service

>>33841215
>Others, however, laid more of the blame on the operational ineptitude of SOG, which simply continued to repeat a failed formula.j Changes to the infiltration program (in the form of the diversionary Operation Forae), spurred by suspicions at headquarters, had come only as late as 1967
Leftists don't belong on /k/.

>>33841408
>cannot understand both of those reasons might be in play at the same time

being compromised is actually supported by hard evidence. being incompetent on top of that just makes the situation even funnier.

>Leftists don't belong on /k/

awwwww, sorry for shattering your stupid delusions about speshul farces in vietnam

>>33830575
>>33830618
>>33830397
back. alright i just lost everything and i'm not typing all that shit out again. but if you're serious about learning more about the war you can try reading:
U.S. Marines In Vietnam: An Expanding War, 1966
statistics of democide
In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam
Blackjack-34
Sog: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam
Clashes: Air Combat over North Vietnam, 1965–1972
declassified after action reports are a good source too

>>33841855

pro-tip: throwing out the name of a book is not a citation

>if you're serious about learning more about the war

oh lawdy

for your sake i hope you didn't consider yourself serious given the bullshit you've dropped all over this thread

>>33841946
...that's not even how sources are cited, i'm not writing you an argumentative research paper and this platform is ill suited for it anyways.

>for your sake i hope you didn't consider yourself serious given the bullshit you've dropped all over this thread
lol mate, just read.

>>33841538
They were going over multiple possibilities.

>awwwww, sorry for shattering your stupid delusions about speshul farces in vietnam
I'm no leftist so no delusions here. But seriously why are you guys even on /k/? Its weird is all.

>>33842100
>i'm not writing you an argumentative research paper
>implying you can
try extracting the relevant arguments in said books and posting them. until then, you have produced nothing new.

>lol mate, just read
lol why. if you can actually post specific parts from those books that back your argument, that might be a legitimate incentive to read said books. alas, you have done nothing of the sort.

another pro-tip: argument from authority is a logical fallacy, and for someone to use that ploy after having been caught bullshitting on multiple items is especially laughable.

>>33842195
can you even read? "a claim not entirely unsupported by fact": means there is backing evidence for said claim. the second link explicitly states at least one south vietnamese intelligence agency was being run (not just compromised) by northern agents.

>I'm no leftist so no delusions here. But seriously why are you guys even on /k/? Its weird is all.

honest question: how old are you?

>>33842263
you're not getting a name so no publications for you.

>lol why
so you can actually learn about what you feel emotionally over as opposed to ctrl cing wiki and trying to pull random sharptons.

>>33842281
The book that was cited is about early SVN raids in North Vietnam.

>honest question: how old are you?
Ye that doesn't work when you're obviously a teenage leftist. Seriously, what are you even doing here? You guys hate guns.

>>33842338
>you're not getting a name so no publications for you

the fuck are you going on about

>so you can actually learn about what you feel emotionally over as opposed to ctrl cing wiki and trying to pull random sharptons.

the funny thing here is if wikipedia and basic google searches is all it takes to contradict you, that means your bullshit is fundamentally wrong and takes zero effort to rebut.

>>33842430
>The book that was cited is about early SVN raids in North Vietnam.

and the primary conclusion of that book was that the raids failed because MACV was compromised: precisely what you are trying to deny. try harder.

>Ye that doesn't work when you're obviously a teenage leftist. Seriously, what are you even doing here? You guys hate guns.

yes, obviously.

that a "teenage leftist" can tear your bullshit apart should make you reflect on your intellectual capabilities (or lack thereof).

>>33842514
>the fuck are you going on about
mate seriously?

>the funny thing here is if wikipedia and basic google searches is all it takes to contradict you, that means your bullshit is fundamentally wrong and takes zero effort to rebut.
if you knew anything you would not be saying such stupid things.

...no offense but are you a woman?

>>33842570
>and the primary conclusion of that book was that the raids failed because MACV was compromised: precisely what you are trying to deny. try harder.
Did you read it?

>yes, obviously.

>that a "teenage leftist" can tear your bullshit apart should make you reflect on your intellectual capabilities (or lack thereof).
You aren't tearing apart anything. Now tell me what are you doing here?

>>33842580

yes, seriously

>you're not getting a name so no publications for you

this sentence fragment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

>if you knew anything you would not be saying such stupid things.

oh, the irony.

just wanted to add:
>so you can actually learn about what you feel emotionally

i do like how you drag emotions into this: an excellent example of projection. your possibly long-held views of vietnam are being torn to shreds, thus causing anxiety and emotional distress. in defense, you attribute those feelings to the source of said contradictory facts.

>>33842597
>Did you read it?
Did you? Feel free to find a citation in said book that backs your position. I posted the relevant text.

>You aren't tearing apart anything
I am truly that you are ignorant of the basics of dialectical score-keeping.

>Now tell me what are you doing here?
To point out how wrong you are, obviously.

>>33842659
*truly sorry

>>33842637
>this sentence fragment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
you were trying to call into question my publishing ability, it was more of a joke than anything.

>i do like how you drag emotions into this: an excellent example of projection.
not at all, just an observation from this thread. you're clearly quite emotional about this hence your aggressive posture and attempts at saving face, i noticed female researchers often have this annoying tendency. i used to be somewhat of a peacenik myself back in the day but i don't think really about vietnam anymore. you aren't knowledgeable enough to engage a proper argument.

>>33842659
>Did you?
I asked you.
Wiki didn't cite it.

>I am truly that you are ignorant of the basics of dialectical score-keeping.
If this were a screeching contest you would be doing much better.

>To point out how wrong you are, obviously
On /k/ in general.

>>33842712
*quote it

>>33833732
>>33827850
>retarded polposters on /k/ can't even realize when they're on the same side

pottery

>>33842696
>dat projection

i did notice you were the first to toss ad hominems. a surefire sign of an emotional response.

>>33842712

pro-tip: if someone cites a book and a chunk of text from that book, demanding to know if they read said cited book is not a legitimate logical response.

>Wiki didn't cite it.
yes, because i found that book on my own? is wikipedia your only source of information?

>If this were a screeching contest
i am truly sorry you cannot even recognize dialectic. but for the record, proving you wrong != screeching, they are different things.

>On /k/ in general.
same reason. duh. /k/ does not belong solely to people you agree with.

Du ma con cac lon me chung may, di an cut het di lu bien thai vo cong roi nghe. Ma tui bay bu cac tao trong khi ba tui bay ngoi nung cac ma coi.

>>33838168
Only 1 made it back, I think another went MIA and turned up somewhere in Kazakhstan thinking he was an brit larping as a russian due to ptsd.